Vanderbilt (Full COA) vs. Mayo/Yale/WashU

[Sfel]

Vandy is full COA. The other three are ~tuition. The difference is about $100K. If this changes anyone's perspective, I will be able to cover the difference with my own savings, so all options are loan-free. They are my savings, from 7 years of work, so it doesn't feel like small change to me.

Besides the normal considerations of cost, location, prestige, etc - I am most concerned about going somewhere with a good mentorship program. I have zero research experience and zero formal shadowing, so I don't want to get trapped at the back.

Vandy
(+) Cost
(+) 1 year preclinical
(+) Happy with Nashville, although not close to family

(-) Prestige

Mayo Clinic (Arizona)
(+) Felt a good vibe here
(+) I like the outdoor activity options
(+) Small class - a lot of personalized attention?

(-) 2 year preclinical

Yale
(+) Near some family (not a huge deal to me but nice)
(+) I like cold weather
(+) I can tell people I go to Yale (a joke, but only partially)
(+) Yale system, also I'm interested in the summer before MS1 research opportunity

(-) Prestige?

WashU
(+) Felt a good vibe here
(+) Really liked my faculty interviewer. She was awesome.

(-) St. Louis isn't my top choice city, but I'm not really that picky

Summary: I confess prestige does matter a bit - to me personally, but also as a way of validating the mentors I had in my previous job for their support of me as I changed professions. I appreciate any of your thoughts or responses.

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[ihoop24]

Vandy. These schools are similar in terms of prestige. Full COA will allow you to keep those 7 years of savings. Vandy will help you get to wherever you want to go.

 

[chlorine857]

I personally don't think there is much of a difference in prestige between these schools. Unless you have a specific residency in mind that is top-notch at one of these schools. I think premeds hype-up WashU because their stats seem untouchable, but outside of that idk how helpful that is long term. I would recommend looking long-term at where you would want to end up for residency and see if one of these would be better for getting you there. It will always be easier to find a residency in the same geographic area that you go to for med school so consider that.

Ultimately it's hard to turn down full COA (even if you wouldn't have to go in debt) and if you like the vibe you got from Vandy I say go for it. I have heard great things about how supportive they are for their students in terms of mentoring and wanting you to succeed. But I have to ask how did you get full COA covered at Vandy? I literally just talked to their financial aid office and they told me they never do that.

 

[Banco]

Yale, WashU, Vandy prob have the most "prestige" - but honestly it's negligible. Mayo AZ is relatively new on the scene.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Do you have an idea of what you might want to pursue in terms of a specialty ?

 

[gomernation]

I'd take Vandy in a heartbeat. Even if you ignore the (!!!FULL COA!!!) scholarship, true P/F for both pre-clins and clerkships is amazing and Vandy's students seem very happy. Yale and Mayo attract very specific kinds of students due to their curricula (which are, funnily enough, very much the opposite of one another) and you may resent that down the line. WashU is an academic powerhouse but St. Louis is not very exciting. When you factor in the scholarship, then Vandy feels like a no brainer

Also, Yale Med is considered less prestigious than WashU, Mayo, and Vandy within the medical community. WashU and Mayo probably have the most academic medicine "prestige" but all schools will provide the resources and training to get you where you want.

 

[heyhihello99]

I personally don't think there is much of a difference in prestige between these schools. Unless you have a specific residency in mind that is top-notch at one of these schools. I think premeds hype-up WashU because their stats seem untouchable, but outside of that idk how helpful that is long term. I would recommend looking long-term at where you would want to end up for residency and see if one of these would be better for getting you there. It will always be easier to find a residency in the same geographic area that you go to for med school so consider that.

Ultimately it's hard to turn down full COA (even if you wouldn't have to go in debt) and if you like the vibe you got from Vandy I say go for it. I have heard great things about how supportive they are for their students in terms of mentoring and wanting you to succeed. But I have to ask how did you get full COA covered at Vandy? I literally just talked to their financial aid office and they told me they never do that.

I have the same question because I heard the same thing 😅😅

 

[m1redsox]

Getting a full ride to a T20 is a pretty awesome way to validate your mentors! Haha just send them a thank you email and include all of your acceptances, and mention your full-ride at Vandy! Then invest your savings and let it double while you’re in med school for a decade.

 

[medgurl27]

I have the same question because I heard the same thing 😅😅

+1

 

[deleted1065184]

Ditto, bc they offered me full tuition and I asked adcoms plus students about COA. They said full tuition is the best they offer.

 

[Sfel]

Thanks to everyone for their responses, they have been helpful to making my decision.

In response to the COA questions, I received a tuition scholarship from the med school. The remainder of the COA is through a different scholarship offered to Vandy graduate students that are veterans.

 

[TheDataKing]

Vandy...

 

[Mynameisnobody]

YALE

 

[confuzzled10]

Yale is the best prestige for regular people not in the medical community, but I would take Vandy in a heartbeat. Either program would get you where you want to go.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Thanks to everyone for their responses, they have been helpful to making my decision.

In response to the COA questions, I received a tuition scholarship from the med school. The remainder of the COA is through a different scholarship offered to Vandy graduate students that are veterans.

As a Vandy student how can you even think of going to other places you mentioned

 

[catnip12]

Vanderbilt. You’ll be going to medical school for free

 

[emergencydancing]

Do you mean that Vandy is full COA and the others would be full tuition scholarship or you would have to pay full tuition? I'm assuming the former if you're expecting a 100k difference. I thought Yale only had need based grants.

Anyway, if it's only a 100k difference, I think it's really negligible if you have a program that screams at you. If you feel about the same with all of them, go with Vandy.

 

[crimson-cat]

All great programs and 100k isn't huge, especially if you are paying out of savings. Go wherever you feel the happiest and will have the fewest "what ifs" in the future. Want to be able to drop the ivy bomb --> Yale. Want to go to one of the nation's historic medical powerhouses --> WashU. Want a very humane (selectives & team assistants) medical school experience --> Mayo. Want perhaps the best curriculum structure in one of the countries most innovative schools --> Vandy.

If you are particularly worried about mentorship, I think Mayo's selectives make it very easy to find some early on, but all schools will have plenty of opportunity if you are willing to send/respond to emails and list serves.

 

[deleted1094730]

+1 Vanderbilt

 

[RNARNARNA]

What does prestige even mean to you? It'd be crazy to turn down that offer at a school like vandy for a few spots on USNWR

 

[buffalo bill]

Full COA? That's more than $100,000 in savings. That's closer to $200,000 - $400,000 over the life of the entire loan. You're saving thousands of dollars per month, which can be used to make live very comfortable during residency.

Yale average debt load is closer to $120,000 after 4 years. Assuming 7% interest, you end up paying and additional $167,000 in interest. So total amount you end up paying back is $287,000. That's a lot of money. Roughly $700-$8000 a month in loan payments.

Don't listen to people saying $100,000 principle isn't a lot of money, I don't think they understand the concept of how loans work.

Should you decide against Vandy, I would still take out a loan even if you have savings. It builds up credit, and if your savings are properly invested you should end up with more assets vs obligations after school. Even if the market tanks in the next 4 years, you have manageable payment schedules and once the market recovers you are sitting in a good position to pay back loans sooner.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Full COA? That's more than $100,000 in savings. That's closer to $200,000 - $400,000 over the life of the entire loan. You're saving thousands of dollars per month, which can be used to make live very comfortable during residency.

Yale average debt load is closer to $120,000 after 4 years. Assuming 7% interest, you end up paying and additional $167,000 in interest. So total amount you end up paying back is $287,000. That's a lot of money. Roughly $700-$8000 a month in loan payments.

Don't listen to people saying $100,000 principle isn't a lot of money, I don't think they understand the concept of how loans work.

100k-120k can be paid in 1 year of pretty much any attending salary. It just means you don't splurge your first year or two. Is it nothing? No, if you have no strong preference all of these schools will get you where you need to go. If you're in love with one over the other, 100k can be repaid very, very quickly. Not saying I'd do it in this case because they're all pretty similar, but if your heart is set on one or location/happiness difference is big, don't let the 100k tie you down.

 

[buffalo bill]

100k-120k can be paid in 1 year of pretty much any attending salary. It just means you don't splurge your first year or two. Is it nothing? No, if you have no strong preference all of these schools will get you where you need to go. If you're in love with one over the other, 100k can be repaid very, very quickly. Not saying I'd do it in this case because they're all pretty similar, but if your heart is set on one or location/happiness difference is big, don't let the 100k tie you down.

I understand the heart wants what the heart wants, I'm in a similar boat. However, $150,000 (assuming a 10 year schedule, which would mean paying the loan back fully after 1-2 years as an attending in a high paying specialty) is a chunk of money that could otherwise be better spent growing your wealth.

$100,000 invested now (from OP's savings), in index funds, will grow on average of 7%-10% annually, more if the market boom continues. If he has a more aggressive portfolio, he can see even more returns than that. 10 years from now, instead of using the money to fund Yale (the cheapest option from the others), it will grow to $250,000. That could be used to start a practice, or as a nice down payment on a very nice home, or a proper nest egg for a new family, anything.

Opportunity cost needs to be properly evaluated.

Now if money is truly no object for OP, then Vandy COA doesn't matter. Opportunity cost instead are the intangibles he listed.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

I understand the heart wants what the heart wants, I'm in a similar boat. However, $150,000 (assuming a 10 year schedule, which would mean paying the loan back fully after 1-2 years as an attending in a high paying specialty) is a chunk of money that could otherwise be better spent growing your wealth.

$100,000 invested now (from OP's savings), in index funds, will grow on average of 7%-10% annually, more if the market boom continues. If he has a more aggressive portfolio, he can see even more returns than that. 10 years from now, instead of using the money to fund Yale (the cheapest option from the others), it will grow to $250,000. That could be used to start a practice, or as a nice down payment on a very nice home, or a proper nest egg for a new family, anything.

Opportunity cost needs to be properly evaluated.

Now if money is truly no object for OP, then Vandy COA doesn't matter. Opportunity cost instead are the intangibles he listed.

I know the math because I've done it myself, and for the most part you're right. However, in your 2 examples, you compared the inflated 150k assuming loans and the 100k assuming no loans and with opportunity cost. These are both right in their corresponding situations (if you can pay off now or have to take loans), but when comparing you can't use the high number in one and the low number in the other because they're different paths.

I've already mentioned the debt path, which I still maintain can be paid off in 1-2 years on a family medicine 250k salary. See MD & DO - Medical school debt is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be for more details. You'll live like a resident for those years, but that's the price you pay.

In the $100k paid in savings, yes from a purely financial perspective money now is always better (assuming market rates) because of the power of compound interest, the eighth wonder of the world. If the 2 paths result in the same financial future earning potential (which they don't always but in this case it's moot), and all you cared about was finances, then yes it's better. But you have to figure at 40 when you have a networth in millions, $300k is not going to matter much (100k*(1.07)^15. After you reach a certain point, money matters a lot less (law of diminishing returns). So it's up to you if a 10% increase in networth at 40, or 2-3 years earlier financial independence is worth it. But in cases where you have a huge increase in potential happiness and future opportunities in one over the other, I'd go with happiness. We're not graduating to work minimum wage here.

 

[buffalo bill]

I know the math because I've done it myself, and for the most part you're right. However, in your 2 examples, you compared the inflated 150k assuming loans and the 100k assuming no loans and with opportunity cost. These are both right in their corresponding situations (if you can pay off now or have to take loans), but when comparing you can't use the high number in one and the low number in the other because they're different paths.

I've already mentioned the debt path, which I still maintain can be paid off in 1-2 years on a family medicine 250k salary. See MD & DO - Medical school debt is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be for more details. You'll live like a resident for those years, but that's the price you pay.

In the $100k paid in savings, yes from a purely financial perspective money now is always better (assuming market rates) because of the power of compound interest, the eighth wonder of the world. If the 2 paths result in the same financial future earning potential (which they don't always but in this case it's moot), and all you cared about was finances, then yes it's better. But you have to figure at 40 when you have a networth in millions, $300k is not going to matter much (100k*(1.07)^15. After you reach a certain point, money matters a lot less (law of diminishing returns). So it's up to you if a 10% increase in networth at 40, or 2-3 years earlier financial independence is worth it. But in cases where you have a huge increase in potential happiness and future opportunities in one over the other, I'd go with happiness. We're not graduating to work minimum wage here.

We can keep at this, but this thread isn't the place. OP has made it clear $100,00 is no small change to him, and I just want to make him aware of his opportunity cost of taking COA and having $100,000 properly invested with few obligations.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

We can keep at this, but this thread isn't the place. OP has made it clear $100,00 is no small change to him, and I just want to make him aware of his opportunity cost of taking COA and having $100,000 properly invested with few obligations.

Sure, and I'll repeat that in this situation I think they're all comparable and I didn't see any strong preference. In that case, go with the money. However, $100k now and $100k-$300k when you're an attending with millions of dollars looks different, and that's what I wanted to counter your point with.

 

[deleted1065184]

Whew I'm just glad this didn't turn into another 5-page financial debate lol. Congrats again to OP for such great options!

 

[Banco]

Why do you think Prestige are negatives for Yale or Vandy - is it just because of USNWR rankings? Those are pretty volatile. All of these programs are within a couple decimal points in the PD ratings.