Vanderbilt or Mayo

[efex101]

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Okay guys trying to get opinions from folks attending either school. I am very very lucky that I received great scholarships from both so deciding will be difficult. I live about 45 minutes away from Nashville so communting would not be too much of a pain but it would be about 2 hours per day. I do not know how this will play during 3rd and 4th years. I do have a family but they are pretty flexible. Any input from students from either school will be welcome thank you.

 

[cocoabutter]

I had the opportunity to spend part of the summer last year at Vanderbilt. It was fantastic. I don't know anything about Mayo. Either way, you will be going to a great school and getting a great education. At this point, it is just about your preference. Congratulations on getting into some great schools.

 

[ForceField]

Originally posted by efex101
Okay guys trying to get opinions from folks attending either school. I am very very lucky that I received great scholarships from both so deciding will be difficult. I live about 45 minutes away from Nashville so communting would not be too much of a pain but it would be about 2 hours per day. I do not know how this will play during 3rd and 4th years. I do have a family but they are pretty flexible. Any input from students from either school will be welcome thank you.

Mayo is the most selective school in the country. Be sure not to overlook it. However, if you have your family, you'd be placing the least strain on them by going to Vanderbilt, which is also a great school. Can't go wrong either way... and congrats on being accepted! 🙂

 

[doc05]

Vanderbilt is the better choice, in large part because of location. they get like 20 feet of snow/yr. in Rochester.

I would recommend moving closer to campus if at all possible. a 30 minute commute is acceptable, 45 ok if there's a commuter train/bus (so you can read to/from school), but you DON'T want to spend 2 hours/day in the car. this will prove to be a major pain in the ass in ms1/2, and will be even worse with the longer hours of your clerkships.

 

[Christiangirl]

doc05, I don't know where you are getting your poor information, but I wouldn't believe trust that source anymore. Rochester does get a lot of snow, but for the past two years, they have actually had less snow than the East Coast due to the blizzards.

I have connections to both schools and believe they would both be great. You just have to determine which has the strengths that would most benefit you. Good luck on your choice.

 

[doepug]

Vanderbilt is not the better choice. Go to Mayo!

Vandy and Mayo are both fantastic medical schools, but Mayo has a certain intrigue (and patient base) that will add to your experiences as a student and your opportunities for the future. Yes, there's snow in Minnesota. Big deal. Mayo is an unbelievable hospital, Rochester is a nice place to live (no country music), and with a class of only 40-ish, Mayo really rolls out the red carpet for you. Vanderbilt is no slouch, but I'd choose Mayo in a heartbeat. It's a no-brainer.

Just my 2 cents,
doepug (MS IV)

 

[efex101]

Thank you to all for giving me your input keep it coming. Yes, the commute will be a huge pain in the rear for I will be kind of wasting two hours per day and that can become very valuable during med school. Moving closer to Vandy would defeat the purpose of why I would stay in the area, mostly to not have to move the family and sell the house etc. I am so honored to have these great choices but it will be difficult to decide. Right now I am leaning towards Mayo because of the small class size, the quality that Mayo Clinic will offer during clerkships, and the opportunity for research is just great. The only downfall is of course the weather, but if it is not that bad I think my family will be very happy there. Thanks and keep them coming...

 

[pxz]

If you have a family, Rochester is a great place to live. While MMS is small, Mayo Graduate School of Medicine is one of the largest in the nations. No matter what kind of specialty you want to go into in future, Mayo has a top-notch program and usually offers more spots than any other programs in the nation.

The only downside of MMS (other than weather) is the quality of basic science courses. Due to the small class size, some professors are not too motivated to teach. I mean, Mayo is a clinic, so professors/phyisicians do not get fired/warned because of poor teaching.

Congrats and good luck!

 

[efex101]

Ok, are you a MMS student? if you are do you feel that you will be well prepared for USMLE? thanks for the input.

 

[efex101]

when you mention offers more spots do you mean offers more spots to MMS students? so it is easier for an MMS grad to get into Mayo Clinic residency of choice?

 

[Neuronix]

I turned down Mayo's MD/PhD program just because it was too cold, too desolate, and just too blah for me. With a family it may not be so bad, as the cost of living is cheap and you aren't trying to date among a med school class and some grad students. Though you will still have to commute by bus as, despite it being in the middle of nowhere, there is no good parking for students.

The cirriculum seemed pretty traditional to me also. 8 - 5 classes for two years? Yuck. I guess there's not much else to do in Rochester but study. The entire city, including most of the clinic, was completely shut down during the weekend I was there. It was the most desolate, fridgid, and boring weekend of my life.

Just being honest about why I didn't choose Mayo. My apologies in advance to those I piss off with this post.

 

[efex101]

Nah that's okay. I do have a family so the scene is not important to me. I do know the area quite well from two summers spent there but of course no clue about how cold it is yet. I plan on going there in January with the whole family and get a feel for the weather. Thanks neuronix.

 

[Mrs.S]

efex~
two questions?
1. when did you interview at vandy?
2. how do you already know about financial aid awards/scholarships? did they send those with your acceptance?
Thanks!

 

[efex101]

Interviewed really early like in late aug and I was accepted on oct 15, award letter came in recently.

 

[mpp]

Just to dispel some rumors about Mayo:

The curriculum is hardly traditional. Although there is a lot of classroom time first year it is because clinical rotations begin September of 2nd year with required rotations in fields such as ENT, dermatology, urology, and PM&R, that are usually only available as electives to 4th year students. Much of the 1st year classes are system-based courses taught in small group format (and with a class of only 42, even the large group is kind of like a small group). More than 90% of the professors for 1st year are physicians so everything is clinically based. For some courses (such as cardiology, neurology, renal, etc.) they will be team taught by 4 or more physicians meaning there is a lot of personal contact and availability to get to know your professors enough that they will welcome you in the clinic or the hospital anytime you want to come and see what they do...and in any field imaginable. Some depatments at Mayo are so large, there are two attendings for every medical student in the class.

Although we don't get reserved parking until 3rd year, about half the class drives to school each day. There is parking available on a first-come first-served basis near the medical school, the clinic/hospital, or various shuttle lots. Garage parking is available if you carpool (3 or more). And if you do decide to take the city buses, Mayo picks up the tab.

Rochester is Rochester and is certainly not a big city. The downtown is eerily empty on the weekends and there is a lack of good restaurants and bars. But the young people manage to find things to do and have fun. The older married people love that the public school system is one of the best in the country, it's still safe to leave your doors unlocked at night and have your kids walk to school, and affordable enough (although probably not as cheap as Tennessee) to buy a decent home within a couple minutes of the clinic and hospitals (even by foot if you are so inclined).

 

[Christiangirl]

You know I don't mind posts like neuronix because everyone is entitled to an opinion, but posts like pxz irritate me. Please OP do NOT listen to him! He knows not of what he speaks.


The basic science classes are taught by the clinicians, so the curriculum is very clinically based. This past year the average Step 1 score was 236. I think most schools can hardly boost this. Not to mention, NONE of the faculty are paid to teach. They all volunteer to do it which shows you how motivated they are. So, I don't know what pxz is talking about.

The moral of the story is don't trust all of the information you get. Get it from the horse's mouth and contact Jane to put you in touch with current students.

 

[efex101]

Thanks Christiangirl, I already have some contact names to get further details.

 

[Neuronix]

Thanks for setting things straight mpp; I knew you were around somewhere. It's very different hearing what you have to say about Mayo compared to what I remember about Mayo, but it's probably just my bad memory.

 

[pxz]

Originally posted by Christiangirl
You know I don't mind posts like neuronix because everyone is entitled to an opinion, but posts like pxz irritate me. Please OP do NOT listen to him! He knows not of what he speaks.

Sorry, you first said everyone is entitled to an opinion but then I was slammed for stating an obvious fact? BTW, I was the one who pointed an outlook e-mail trick to you. 🙂)

The basic science classes are taught by the clinicians, so the curriculum is very clinically based. This past year the average Step 1 score was 236. I think most schools can hardly boost this.

Well, I think MMS students can study by themselves and still average 236 in step 1. Step 1 score is not corrlated to the quality of teaching you receive in school.

Not to mention, NONE of the faculty are paid to teach. They all volunteer to do it which shows you how motivated they are. So, I don't know what pxz is talking about.

Volunteering doesn't mean that they are motivated to teach well or they know how to teach. The problem I think is that most of professors at Mayo have little teaching experiences. They might love students and want to teach well, they just do not know how. They basically give out seminars.

In most schools, first year courses are taught by teaching faculties and second year courses are taught by clinicians/volunteers. What do you think who teach better?

The moral of the story is don't trust all of the information you get. Get it from the horse's mouth and contact Jane to put you in touch with current students.

OP, i think Mayo is the ideal place for you. What Rochester/Mayo offers? one of the best clinics, nice family town, short commuting time, low living cost (you can own a house, just as I do), and excellent chance to obtain a good residency. MPP said it best in his post. While teaching sometimes sucks, I am sure you are smart enought to do well even on your own. Good luck and congrats.

 

[efex101]

Thanks guys!

 

[futuremsfdoc]

i'm reviving this thread from last year, because my choices are now eerily similar to efex101's from little more than a year ago.

so i have a few questions about mayo that hopefully efex or some others would be able to answer:
1) what's the average usmle1 score? vandy's is like 235 i know.
2) it seems like mayo students don't match quite as well as vandy students, but do extremely well in matching at mayo. by not as well, mayo sends very few people to harvard, duke, and the powerhouses. maybe that's just a consequence of the class size though.
3) i'm single and would actually like to settle down over the next 4 years. rochester doesn't seem as good as nashville for this. is it possible?
4) at both schools the students seemed to spend lots of time in class and studied a lot (esp. as compared to washu). how is the schedule at mayo and how many hours per week are spent in class?
5) how is the winter now that it's getting cold?
6) how much active participation do we do in clinical work...if you can speak about either place, please do.

that's about it for now. some of these questions are applicable for both vandy and mayo, so if you are informed about both, please compare and contrast.

 

[MDT]

I'm a first year at Mayo, so I can only answer some of your questions.

The class schedule during first year is usually 8 - 5 (with 2 hours for lunch) 2-3 days a week, with the other days being finished by 11am. During 2nd year the students start clinical rotations M-F during the am and have classes in the afternoon. I like our schedules, but I do learn well in lecture.

Your match list question is definately related to the small class size. First of all, most schools have the most matches to their own programs. The residency directors know their own students from rotations, so they know what they are getting by ranking their own students. Also, if you like the system and school you trained in, you'll likely want to stay there for your training. In addition, many of the MN residents want to stay in Minnesota for residency, but prefer to go back to the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. Lastly, no matter where you go to school, your grades and scores are what is going to allow you to apply to powerhouse residencies, if that is your goal.

I like MN winters, but I love snow and winter sports. I think the average high temperature during the day for the winter is in the mid 20's, but it can get much colder. However, with Mayo's tunnels and skyways, you can stay indoors when it gets real cold. If you are coming from the south, it will probably be a shock. I wouldn't let the weather be ther reason you decide not to come, because we have awesome weather during the spring, summer and early fall! I really enjoy having 4 distinct seasons.

I didn't apply to Vandy, so I can't give you any comparisons to their programs. In the end, you need to pick the school that will fit your learning style best. Congrats on having such a great choice. I love Mayo, and I am so lucky to be able to be here!

 

[agp4]

So, I'm sure efex101 will give you the skinny on why she picked Mayo over Vandy, but I can try to fill in some of the blanks for mayo. I'm a first year, so I don't know enough to answer some of your questions, but I can tell you what I do know and I do remember what it felt like to be in your shoes last year.

The average USMLE score at Mayo is very close to Vandy's - I don't remember the exact numbers, but they're in the 230-236 range. I haven't looked at the match too closely, but Mayo has the reputation of sending a lot of students up into Mayo residencies, and coupled with the small class size, you'll typically see one or two people in each of the other "powerhouse" programs per class.

I can understand your concern about dating life in Rochester. I admit that I haven't really been looking hard, but there are plenty of well-educated, young folks around (especially employees from IBM and Mayo). It is kind of true that there is a lot of intraclass dating (almost to the point of seeming a little creepie). We haven't had a lot of that in our class, but it's been prevalent in some of the other classes. Your classmates will be the people you end up getting to know the best, so I guess I can understand if some folks hit it off.

I honestly don't know how much students at other schools study - I feel that I study enough to understand the material at hand. Its much more studying than I did in undergrad, but that comes with the territory. We certainly spend plenty of time goofing around and tending to our own hobbies/interests. I usually study a few hours a day (depending on the complexity of the material and if a test is coming up). The pass/fail system works like a charm - I study hard and learn the material, but I don't feel like I need to compete with others or get 100% in every single thing.

The weather is an easy question. I'm still bracing for it (I'm originally from the south, so temperatures below 0 seem obscene to me). We've had unseasonably warm weather (it was 60 yesterday!) You really don't spend a lot of time outside during the cold, and downtown Rochester and the Mayo facilities are lined with subway walkways, so once you get to school, you don't really ever walk outside (you probably experienced the subways on your interview). Its easy to live close enough to the subways that you only need to brave 2 or 3 blocks outside in the elements if necessary.

The clinical work and participation is where I think my education at Mayo really is paying off. Many of my professors are physicians, and we are almost always welcome to shadow doctors in any department in the clinic. I can keep talking on at great length about how wonderful I think the clinical experience is, but mpp's post from last year is quite eloquent (see above). As for the quality of teaching, I've felt its been top-notch so far. The administration and professors have been pretty receptive to our suggestions.

I hope I helped out a little. I have no doubt that you'll have a lot of tough decisions ahead (you can't do badly with either school). If you have any questions about first year at Mayo, feel free to PM me!

 

[pekq]

my friend turned down vandy because they couldn't guarantee his scholarship for four years. He was afraid the scholarship was to bait students and then they trim it 2nd year. Maybe you should look into that.

As for Vandy vs Mayo, Mayo's class might be too small for some people. I'd think someone who is single would be happier in Vanderbilt. There's the undergrad campus, the grad school, and the larger med school class. Furthermore, Nashville is probably more vibrant.

On another note, I've heard complaints about subtle racism at Vandy. I don't know if it's the complaint of an underachieving student or if it actually happens but just FYI if you are a minority.

 

[futuremsfdoc]

thanks for the insight everyone. and agp4, i think i met you on my interview day.

 

[futuremsfdoc]

one more thing, and maybe i should just call jane for this one, but i was wondering if mayo would pick up the tab if i choose to do an md/mph.

 

[tofurious]

Just a bit about residency: you are right about Mayo not sending a lot of people to the "big names". That is, if you don't consider Mayo a big name. Many of the recent graduates from Mayo have actually chosen lifestyle over fame, and have gone to cities and programs where they can get good training without any name-associated torture. Of the people who do want to go to the big names, they have gotten there without any problems (a few people from each year's class - most go to the Harvard hospitals and UCSF, with the occasional Duke, UCLA, Emory). One dilemma is always if you know Mayo's program is on the same calibre as an equivalent big name program, do you stay in a familiar setting or do you go? Many of us choose to stay here (over programs in NY, Boston, and California) after much consideration and then go to a coastal program for fellowship. The only catch would be if you KNOW that you absolutely want to go into a particular residency and that residency happens to be the black sheep that is new/not strong at Mayo. In that case, you should choose Vandy over Mayo.

 

[mpp]

To answer your questions about participation in clinical work and the MPH questions.

There is often this rumor that medical students at the Mayo Clinic do not get to participate as much in patient care as do medical students elsewhere. Unless someone has gone to medical school at two different location I don't think they can answer that question accurately. I would say that there are few aspects of clinical care for which I have not been involved or had the opportunity to participate. I couldn't imagine there is anything that we are lacking in this regard. Just like most medical schools we have preceptoring in the first year (usually in Family Medicine) where you'll learn the art of the history and physical exam on real patients. Second year has dedicated rotations in a variety of specialties (the regulars like medicine, piediatrics, surgery, plus some more unusual ones like Dermatology, Urology, ENT, PM&R) in which you participate by taking histories, doing physical exams, and doing minor procedures although most of this is in the out-patient setting with only some exposure to inpatient medicine. Third year required clerkship are like they are at any other medical school with one difference...because of the huge difference between the size of the school and the size of the clinic/hospital there are far fewer medical students spread out across many more hospital services than at other places. Unless someone has gone through a 3rd year at Mayo Medical School, I wouldn't weight what they have to say about clinical participation at Mayo too heavily.

Unfortunately, the MPH option at Mayo Medical School is not free. The MPH is awarded through the University of Minnesota and there is a tuition for that program. Some students that have taken a year to get their MPH go away to other institutions (Hopkins, UCSF, Harvard, etc.) for this, but again it is on their own dime.

One more difference between Vanderbilt and Mayo is the tution structure. Realize that at Mayo, the tuition/fees/scholarship they offer you now will not change over your four years of education. In fact, there are other scholarships that you may be eligible for in future years meaning you will never pay more than what you pay in your first year (maximum of about $11,000/yr for out-of-staters and about $5,500/yr for residents of MN, AZ, and FL but most students pay less than this because of other scholarships that are available).

 

[agp4]

thanks for the insight everyone. and agp4, i think i met you on my interview day.

I thought you sounded familiar. If I remember right, we had some shenanigans during lunch - I'm glad we didn't scare you off! Congrats on the acceptance, and I hope to see ya' in next year's class! 🙂

 

[efex101]

I remember being in your exact same spot last year holy cow! here is what did it for me. Mayo has a small class size and that *is* priceless IMHO...because you are well taken care off by faculty and the administration. If you need extra help it is there, if you need food for review sessions they provide it, if you need extra time for exams it is available bc there is no rush to get 42 students through X or Y stations (think gross lab here). The faculty will bend over backwards to help you in any way and with less students they *can* do this, at other schools with over a hundred folks it may be unrealistic to do this. The clinical aspect of this school is just uncomparable period. You have world reknown folks here not only teaching you but they more than welcome you to shadow them or just mentor you this is priceless. I went to second look at Vandy and something that happened there in the clinic really made me realize how commited Mayo is to first and foremost the needs of the patient come first...if you want more details about the Vandy incident PM me. Here at Mayo *everything* revolves around patient needs, education and research to me putting patients first is very important hence why I came here. Mayo is consistently ranked as the number two hospital over and over that is a huge deal and learning from these physicians is amazing! Not only will you get bread and butter cases here but you will also see the rare cases from patients that come from every corner of the world. There is a reason why patients will fly thousands of miles to come here....just food for thought.