Vanderbilt VS Northwestern

[VirtuoJ]

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Hey fellow SDNers,

I'm fortunate enough to have these 2 acceptances already at this time, but I'm really torn between which I would choose. Vandy's school and hospitals' rep are a little better, but you really can't beat Northwestern's location. And both schools have very different teaching philosophies. One day I lean towards one school, the next day I lean towards the other. What would you guys choose in my case? Thanks for any opinions/thoughts.

 

[Rapid Decomposition]

Well, I would go with NU, because I think I would like a PBL type format more than the traditional lecture. And I mean.. Chicago vs. Nashville - yeah. But that's just my preference - they're both awesome schools, no wonder you are having trouble deciding. But shouldn't you just accept both and worry about deciding later?

 

[Cacophony]

Can you afford to take a second look at both schools?

Now that you have acceptances, they would welcome another visit from you. Without the stresses of interviews, tours, etc., you might get a different perspective. Plus you could talk to more students, attend more classes....

Also, I would make a prioritized pros/cons list without thinking about a particular school. Rate things like curriculum, lifestyle, cost of living, distance to family, even things like the weather, local sports teams, and shopping.....
then fill in the blanks for each school and see which fits your needs more.

Good luck and Congratulations on 2 acceptances.

 

[CTIL]

Definitely Vandy. Northwestern is one of the most over-rated (at ~20) schools, and Vandy (at ~15) is probably one of the most under-rated. I pulled my app from Northwestern, and I'm on Vandy's waitlist, so call me biased if you want. I live in chicago though, and I think I have basis for my assertion.

CTIL
accepted: Pritzker, Emory
interviewed: Dartmouth, Cornell
waiting: harvard, yale

 

[Gumshoe]

Virtuo:

I grew up in and around Chicago, so I am aware of the schools, city, and such. Coincidentally, I went to Vanderbilt undergrad, so I think I might be a good person to talk to about this matter as well. I know people right now and when I was in school who were med students. I'm not sure about the curriculums so much, but it could be that what that previous poster said about NU being overrated and Vandy underrated is very much the truth.

PM me if you are interested. I guess I'd have to see what you think about cities/climates/people curriculums to know how to make a good decision on this one.

Gumshoe

 

[UCLAMAN]

Why do you guys consider Northwestern overrated? Any specifics?

 

[gotgirth]

I would also be interested in knowing specifics as to why Northwestern is often characterized on this forum as overrated. Growing up in Chicago, there was definitely always a certain stigma associated with Northwestern ("rich kid school") - but I have not heard anything specific regarding the medical program.

Anyone with specifics? I really like the downtown location of the med school...

 

[indianboy]

I have always been biased against NWU due to the high number of BA/MD kids that are in the class. I've met many, and they are usually very immature; furthermore, they have been in class for 3 years previously, and are very cliquish. While this is, of course, a generalization about those kids, it undoubtedly impacts the atmosphere of the class. That being said, I think NWU's location is among the best in the country. I am not a nashville person (I felt it was culturally homogenous - though many other found it 'quaint'), and this was corroborated when I interviewed there. Their school, however, is top notch, and is definately a step above NW. If I had the choice - I would still goto NW (and just assume the best about the class composition, I'm sure it would turn out fine) because Nashville would be too much for me to handle for 4 years.

PShankOut

 

[jkai]

Several of my interviewers (at other schools) have told me that Vanderbilt is sure to become a top 10 school in a few years.

 

[chloe5]

I wouldn't pick *any* of the Chicago schools over Vandy. U of C and Northwestern do not have the same reputation in terms of research and teaching as VUMS. I agree with other posters that NWU is totally overrated. The only reason to go there is because you can't get over the geography issue. No doubt about it, Northwestern wins in the location area hands down! But are you really going to have that much time in Med school? And do you have the money to go shopping frequently on Oak Street? I'm grappling with the same decision in terms of picking schools on location. People I know at NWU aren't particularly happy, especially with so many BA-MD kids in the class. The other thing is that VUMS seems to be focused on turning out leaders in research and academia more so than NWU, but that was just the feeling i got. And that's about it, just my .02

Originally posted by jkai
Several of my interviewers (at other schools) have told me that Vanderbilt is sure to become a top 10 school in a few years.

 

[bw07]

Umm, Vandy may have an edge over NU in research, but U of C??? Do you know how many more multiples of Nobel Prizes U of C has over Vandy? I can't compare the teaching done at each school, but U of C hands down for research.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/resources/nobel/

 

[Gumshoe]

in terms of area yeah, chicago is sweet, but Vandy's campus is awesome, the weather is awesome, and I guarantee you'll like it as long as you get along with fellow classmates (random chances, I assume). I went undergrad and I wouldn't want to return to nashville for 4, but still I gotta give props up to NashVegas and the vanderbilt campus. It's sweet.

Gummy

 

[chloe5]

I disagree.
I'm talking about the medical school, not the rest of U of C. Pritzker is okay in research, better than NWU. U of C overall is an amazing institution though. I'm not measuring research quality in number of Nobels won. If memory serves, I think U of C has most of their Nobels in Econ and Physics/Astronomy, so what does this have to do with research quality at Pritzker and associated hospitals!? Of the midwestern universities, Wash U is the best for research. Further, Vanderbilt hospitals have a much better rep for clinical training than do U of C's.

Originally posted by bw07
Umm, Vandy may have an edge over NU in research, but U of C??? Do you know how many more multiples of Nobel Prizes U of C has over Vandy? I can't compare the teaching done at each school, but U of C hands down for research.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/resources/nobel/

 

[CTIL]

I'm the first one to admit that Vandy is a first-rate medical school, and probably equal with University of Chicago in terms of the training that you will receive. However, to argue that Vandy has better research than U of C (in any discipline you choose) is ridiculous.

 

[Wrigleyville]

NU and Vandy are both great schools. I do my volunteer work at NMH; the facilities there at Northwestern are second to none. Some of the med students strike me as immature though, which is probably due to the combined undergrad/MD program the school has.

At any rate, you're in the catbird seat, and you can't really go wrong either way.

 

[UCLAMAN]

Hmm...still don't see how nw is overrated....just because there are a couple of snooty ba/md kids? Are the profs at nw trash or something? is the clinical experience cheesy? how exactly is it overrated? how big is this so called "difference in reputation?"

 

[chloe5]

Why is it "ridiculous?"

Also, many of the Nobel Laureates U of C claims actually did their prize winning research at other institutions. Case in point: James Watson. I believe they claim him as one of their winners.

As a U of C alum, I think I know what I'm talking about. I think the discipline you choose is extremely important. I would choose U of C undergrad, b-school and law school, phd econ and physics among others over Vandy anyday.

Originally posted by CTIL
I'm the first one to admit that Vandy is a first-rate medical school, and probably equal with University of Chicago in terms of the training that you will receive. However, to argue that Vandy has better research than U of C (in any discipline you choose) is ridiculous.

 

[Wrigleyville]

Originally posted by chloe5
I wouldn't pick *any* of the Chicago schools over Vandy. U of C and Northwestern do not have the same reputation in terms of research and teaching as VUMS.

This is crazy talk. The University of Chicago med school is almost exclusively dedicated to educating medical scientists and teachers. A big part of their secondary application deals with research work and why you'd recommend it to other people. No way Vandy outshines U. of C. in this department.

 

[CTIL]

I wasn't making my point based on how many Nobel's U of C has or claims to have. The bottom line is that U of C has better life science research programs than Vandy, and I thought that was what we were talking about in terms of research related to medical school. Disagree???

 

[Explosivo]

Originally posted by gotgirth
I would also be interested in knowing specifics as to why Northwestern is often characterized on this forum as overrated. Growing up in Chicago, there was definitely always a certain stigma associated with Northwestern ("rich kid school") - but I have not heard anything specific regarding the medical program.

Anyone with specifics? I really like the downtown location of the med school...

Well as it was told to me by someone on SDN, the main reason NU gets knocked, at least in the Chicago area, is that the clinical training for their med students is not as "hands on" as say it would be at places like UIC, Rush, or Loyola. This is mainly due to the patient population that uses Northwestern's hospitals who mostly have private insurance or are wealthy enough to pay out of their own pocket. Whether this is true or not I'm not going to speculate. However, I do see some logic in it. Here's the thread where it was originally brought up, look for lavidee's posts:

http://www.studentdoctor.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52110

I'd probably still go there over UIC anyway, plus NU has a debt cap which will cap your debt at 120k when you graduate which is really nice.

Edit: I think the debt cap only kicks in if you are a non-trad that has worked for 30 months prior to matriculation. Oh well.

 

[jtheater]

With this research thing, I think you guys are trying to splice hairs. Both U of C and Vandy are well respected research institutions and it probably depends on what kind of research you are talking about.

Back to the original posters question. I interviewed at Vandy and withdrew my application after because (1) I realized Nashville is not where I wanted to be even if I went to a lower ranked school. (2) I didn't want to be a such a heavily oriented lecture school (3) I found the students really high strung. There was a girl who had at least 200 flashcards and was frieking out that she didn't know anything and then sharing random facts with us just to prove to herself that she really didn't know anything. It reminded me of the pyscho premeds who were like wound up chihauhau's (is that how you spell it?) frieking out about tests and then complaining when they got an A-. (4) Grading system... it doesn't matter what they call it... they are grades (5) Close mindedness of some of the other interviewers and students [I told them that I had done needle exchange in SF with gay and transgendered prostitutes... I got a few blank stares, wide eyes and one snide comment].

However, it is still an extremely well respected school academically and clinically, especially if you wish to stay in the area. NWU teaching style is completely different and so is the living environment. I think they are very different schools in terms of these two things, so think which you prefer. Very structured curriculum or group work?

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by jtheater
Back to the original posters question. I interviewed at Vandy and withdrew my application after because (1) I realized Nashville is not where I wanted to be even if I went to a lower ranked school. (2) I didn't want to be a such a heavily oriented lecture school (3) I found the students really high strung. There was a girl who had at least 200 flashcards and was frieking out that she didn't know anything and then sharing random facts with us just to prove to herself that she really didn't know anything. It reminded me of the pyscho premeds who were like wound up chihauhau's (is that how you spell it?) frieking out about tests and then complaining when they got an A-. (4) Grading system... it doesn't matter what they call it... they are grades (5) Close mindedness of some of the other interviewers and students [I told them that I had done needle exchange in SF with gay and transgendered prostitutes... I got a few blank stares, wide eyes and one snide comment].

#5 is lame. That'd be enough to make me cross it off my list. #3 doesn't bode well, but that could be a bad sample. As for Nashville...I don't know. I've never been there. But your car will probably get keyed if you don't have a Titans sticker or some sort of other insignia.

 

[jtheater]

One thing to add, my faculty interviewer was great. It does seem that the faculty are really invovled and care about students at Vandy. Just want to be fair. I just realized that it wasn't the place for me... but that shouldn't discourage others from finding out on their own.

As for NWU, I never visisted. I cancelled my interview after I got into a school... I just couldn't afford travel and time off of work. Their curriculcum does seem interesting. I don't know much about the BA/MD people, but personally, I think they should scrap the whole plan everywhere. I just think it is a bad idea. Especially now, I think people need 4 years of tough work to really understand why they want to enter this profession. So I wouldn't be surprised about the comments made about the BA/MD students. They haven't gotten kicked in the stomache multiple times and still moved ahead like most of us.

 

[chloe5]

Hmmm.
#1, #2, #4 are the only meaningful considerations here.
#3 and #5 can happen anywhere I think and Chicago people and Northwestern med students aren't that different. You probably just met the wrong people since my experiences were very different. And you're right about the research thing, it matters a lot what kind of research you're talking about.

Originally posted by jtheater
With this research thing, I think you guys are trying to splice hairs. Both U of C and Vandy are well respected research institutions and it probably depends on what kind of research you are talking about.

Back to the original posters question. I interviewed at Vandy and withdrew my application after because (1) I realized Nashville is not where I wanted to be even if I went to a lower ranked school. (2) I didn't want to be a such a heavily oriented lecture school (3) I found the students really high strung. There was a girl who had at least 200 flashcards and was frieking out that she didn't know anything and then sharing random facts with us just to prove to herself that she really didn't know anything. It reminded me of the pyscho premeds who were like wound up chihauhau's (is that how you spell it?) frieking out about tests and then complaining when they got an A-. (4) Grading system... it doesn't matter what they call it... they are grades (5) Close mindedness of some of the other interviewers and students [I told them that I had done needle exchange in SF with gay and transgendered prostitutes... I got a few blank stares, wide eyes and one snide comment].

However, it is still an extremely well respected school academically and clinically, especially if you wish to stay in the area. NWU teaching style is completely different and so is the living environment. I think they are very different schools in terms of these two things, so think which you prefer. Very structured curriculum or group work?

 

[bw07]

With regards to students who enter through the BA/MD route, I have a friend who is an M1 there who went that route, and I'm told the school has made efforts to reduce the size of the program in recent years. The current M1 class has 35 people who went through the 7year program, down from 70 4 years ago (class of ~180 total) He also says that while there are some cliques from his class, he's become friends with many people who entered through regular admissions as have others who went through his program.

 

[Thewonderer]

Go with your gut feeling. If you like NWU's location better than go to NWU. Or decide on which school to go to depending on how close you will be with your family or how much debt you will have following graduation. All these talks about reputation and research are over-rated. Honestly, how many of you will go into academia? It seems dandy and all, but how many of you will sarcrifice 100k by going into academics instead of private practice?

 

[batman123]

pick NW so a spot opens up on Vandy's waitlist 😉

just kidding; I don't know Chicago or NW, but Vandy seems to do the most for its students than any other place I've been to so far. But if you want diversity, it may not be the best place.

I like the great amount of elective-space available to pursue practical interests; also, after attending a neurology lecture there, I saw firsthand how good the pre-clinical teaching is.