Variation in difficulty at undergrad. schools

[remo]

I've been doing a post-bac for the last year and taking classes at both a UC and a Cal State school. I have only taken 2 classes at the state school but it is like night and day. People are way less competitive and the classes are really a joke compared to the UC ones. The problem is that I didn't learn jack and it will make MCAT prep more difficult. My suggestion is that if you still live near Berkeley to take a few classes there to "prove" that you can handle the competition. Tell the Adcomm that you took most of your classes at the state school for financial reasons or whatever. Adcomms know which schools are which. If all you did for a living was evaulate medical school applications then you would know about virtually every college out there too. I bet they even know which classes are hard/easy at many schools.

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[bootz]

I've been doing a post-bac for the last year and taking classes at both a UC and a Cal State school. I have only taken 2 classes at the state school but it is like night and day. People are way less competitive and the classes are really a joke compared to the UC ones. The problem is that I didn't learn jack and it will make MCAT prep more difficult. My suggestion is that if you still live near Berkeley to take a few classes there to "prove" that you can handle the competition. Tell the Adcomm that you took most of your classes at the state school for financial reasons or whatever. Adcomms know which schools are which. If all you did for a living was evaulate medical school applications then you would know about virtually every college out there too. I bet they even know which classes are hard/easy at many schools.

I don't think you can just sign up for classes at Berkeley after you graduate or for post-bac. UC Extension is a possibility but it is just a waste of money.

As for the state school option, you might as well take classes at a community college if you are going to make the cost argument. When it comes to filling out your apps, I don't think there is a space on the AMCAS app to make an argument about why you chose to attend a school for cost reasons, that is unless you want to waste personal statement space (not recommended). The only time you are really going to get a chance to make this point is if an interviewer asks you about it. Hope this helps.

 

[remo]

I don't think you can just sign up for classes at Berkeley after you graduate or for post-bac. UC Extension is a possibility but it is just a waste of money.

As for the state school option, you might as well take classes at a community college if you are going to make the cost argument. When it comes to filling out your apps, I don't think there is a space on the AMCAS app to make an argument about why you chose to attend a school for cost reasons, that is unless you want to waste personal statement space (not recommended). The only time you are really going to get a chance to make this point is if an interviewer asks you about it. Hope this helps.

It's not Extension its called Concurrent Enrollment and you can take any class offered (as long as there is space available).

http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/info/concur.php

 

[bootz]

It's not Extension its called Concurrent Enrollment and you can take any class offered (as long as there is space available).

http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/info/concur.php

Oh yeah, but it is offered through Extension. They had the same program for the community college I was going to in Berkeley. I guess they must have expanded it to include the Cal State schools, too. I take back most of what I said.

 

[Pharmwannab]

I've been doing a post-bac for the last year and taking classes at both a UC and a Cal State school. I have only taken 2 classes at the state school but it is like night and day. People are way less competitive and the classes are really a joke compared to the UC ones. The problem is that I didn't learn jack and it will make MCAT prep more difficult. My suggestion is that if you still live near Berkeley to take a few classes there to "prove" that you can handle the competition. Tell the Adcomm that you took most of your classes at the state school for financial reasons or whatever. Adcomms know which schools are which. If all you did for a living was evaulate medical school applications then you would know about virtually every college out there too. I bet they even know which classes are hard/easy at many schools.

I was going to originally, but two things stopped me. One, it was way too expensive and two, they don't replace your grade. Most schools actually do replace your grade if you take a course over at the same school, but not Berkeley - they just average it. I'm pretty sure that if I worked hard at Berkeley I could pull off B's and B+'s, but that would only average my grade in a lot of courses to C+'s and maybe B-'s if I'm lucky. Honestly not sure I can do A's in the science courses there, even with a much stronger work ethic. It really does take something special to pull off A's, and anyone who's gone through the sciences there can testify to that.

Though once I'm done with my post-bac curriculum at Cal State at the end of June, I am strongly considering taking some entirely new courses to me at Berkeley starting next fall - maybe something like micro or physiology. I may even take a course there this summer. I'm sure if I can pull off B+'s or maybe A-'s then that would definitely look pretty good. For now though I'm doing all my retakes at Cal State as I think it's the best way to go. I'm certainly not aiming for the top schools either heh, I am realistic about this.

I know what you mean about not learning a lot at Cal State. We do cover a wide variety of topics, but only on a superficial level. Actually for the PCAT it works out well, since it's more of a speed test than an in-depth knowledge test, but I can see that it would hurt you quite a bit for the MCAT.

Also, what Cal State and UC are you going to if you don't mind me asking? I'm at Hayward.

 

[letmein!please?]

MCAT = equalizer of ugrad difficulty. If what OP says is true, then the guy with a 2.5 at Berkeley will score the same as the guy with a 4.0 at CSU Marysville.

Whiney whiney.

I think this is a bit of a generalization, a high MCAT cannot equalize a 2.5, unless maybe it is above 40 or the applicant is a URM.

Of course, the community college people still have to score well, but that is what prep courses are for....

I'm from Cali and I don't doubt that the OP could have earned a 4.0 at a state school with the same work ethic...or close to 4.0 anyway.

 

[deleted77919]

I was going to originally, but two things stopped me. One, it was way too expensive and two, they don't replace your grade. Most schools actually do replace your grade if you take a course over at the same school, but not Berkeley - they just average it.

This is also the case at Virginia, interesting two of the top publics have the same policy. At any rate, in the MD application process this doesn't matter at all because AMCAS takes the "every course counts" approach as well, whether that's what your school does or not. There isn't any way to just make a grade disappear. I understand you are looking at pharm programs, and since I have no experience in that area I don't know how that application works.

 

[masterMood]

Sucks to all of you who are in these very competitive schools. As someone said earlier, this is all a game. I did not go to Cornell because I knew i would have to work my ass off 10x more than I am now to get a crappy gpa. Fact is that med. school isn't very complex in learning the material it's just a lot of memorization and reading. The sciences at these undergrad schools like berkely, mit, cornell, chicago, etc... is really meant for the students who will not go into medicine (unless you are a supergenius who studies quantum physics while skydiving). But out of all of these competitive students from these hardcore colleges, how many of them can dedicate time to extracurriculars, social time, etc.

We're talking about becoming medical doctors people, we're not innovators and we're not expected to be rocket sciences, so play the game right and you will win.

 

[CTSballer11]

Sucks to all of you who are in these very competitive schools. As someone said earlier, this is all a game. I did not go to Cornell because I knew i would have to work my ass off 10x more than I am now to get a crappy gpa. Fact is that med. school isn't very complex in learning the material it's just a lot of memorization and reading. The sciences at these undergrad schools like berkely, mit, cornell, chicago, etc... is really meant for the students who will not go into medicine (unless you are a supergenius who studies quantum physics while skydiving). But out of all of these competitive students from these hardcore colleges, how many of them can dedicate time to extracurriculars, social time, etc.

We're talking about becoming medical doctors people, we're not innovators and we're not expected to be rocket sciences, so play the game right and you will win.

Could not have said it better myself. I have a cuz in med school, she decided not to go to cornell for the reasons you have mentioned above. She is now a med student at cornell. She played the game and won.

 

[Ultra7]

I go to a very small state school, and my biochem was a biatch... Pchem was easier! On the other hand, I know a girl who failed second semester of ochem at my school, but took biochem at a bigger state school over the summer and said it was the easiest class she EVER took... all her exams were multiple choice and didn't take longer than 20 minutes. Our biochem exams were essay (ok, more like puke out every single fact you've ever read or heard on every topic known to mankind about biochem and make it sound GOOD), and so long you took them outside of class - some people took 6 hours on the exams and STILL barely managed a C.

Fair that the 'big bad state school' folks have easier classes? Nope. Fair that they have better GPAs? Nope. Fair that they have MCAT prep classes and we don't? Nope. Life isn't fair. The best revenge is to absolutely SMOKE these folks in medical school 'cuz I'm goin' to med school - somewhere. This fall.

Please don't knock the "big bad state school" folks. These places provide wonderful, relatively cheap education for those of us who cannot afford the more expensive schools. Most of these schools curve on a C or at the very best a C+/B-; therefore, it doesn't really matter how easy or hard a test seems when you're taking it, you are judged relative to the others. You could I suppose make the argument that people that go to state schools are dumber than those at the more expensive and smaller schools, but you would have to base that off high school grades or SAT scores. I'm not convinced either of those (especially high school grades!) is a good predictor of future success or intelligence.
FWIW, I went to a big bad state school and am now doing fine at a top 10 medical school, as are at least a few of my classmates who went to big state schools.
Take this with a grain of salt, because I was an engineer in undergrad, but it is no harder to get an A/Honors in med school as it was at my big state school. So the kids at state school can't be that dumb

 

[ShyRem]

ultra, I agree that state schools provide a good cheap education. I DID say I went to a small state school. But a state-funded school nonetheless. However, being small we don't have the name that the major large state-funded school has. My point is that being from a small state-funded school can be hazardous to your application, both in terms of more difficult exams and in terms of lack of 'name recognition'. 20 years ago, BTW, I went to an ivy-league school. The education I got at my little itty bitty state-funded school was FAR better, mainly because the professors really cared (and the exams were much harder - really. I checked on some of my old exams vs. new exams for the same classes).

I don't recall saying anything about folks who went to a large state school are 'dumber'. But I do question the difficulty of the exams at some of these well-known schools when someone fails a pre-req at a smaller school yet pulls of the 'easiest A ever' in the higher level course at the bigger school.

 

[letmein!please?]

Most of these schools curve on a C or at the very best a C+/B-; therefore, it doesn't really matter how easy or hard a test seems when you're taking it, you are judged relative to the others. You could I suppose make the argument that people that go to state schools are dumber than those at the more expensive and smaller schools, but you would have to base that off high school grades or SAT scores.

You don't need SAT scores or grades to back this up, although I am positive that you would find a significant correlation here. Talk to anyone who has gone to both types and they will tell you there is a big difference, at least in California. State schools are not only way, way less competitive than large universities, but the students are less-educated and poorer-test takers. Thus, you are graded on an easier curve.

 

[frostynorthwind]

Responding to the op, I agree with other posters who have suggested that you also have to consider the type of concentration/major pursued at an institution. Coming from a large public research institution, a generic BA bio degree presents very different challenges than a BS in biochemistry or molecular genetics from the same school. It kind of seems like comparing Jamaican Blue Mountain to Kona Blend. Both have their benefits but ultimately, it really depends on personal preference... I think the same can be said for smaller, obscure private schools and the larger, public ones, hence the use of the MCAT as the global equalizer. With a high MCAT and a decent GPA, I doubt the lack of undergrad institution name recognition would hurt a candidate. On the other hand, I can certainly see how a low gpa from an ultra-competitive school or program could hurt an applicant.

 

[SeventhSon]

i got sick of reaidng all the responses... my 2c.

the ability to excel is a personality trait. schools are more liekly to pick people who have shown excellence over all periods of time rather than wake up later on and decide to do well in school after getting a 2.0 and dropping out of undergrad.

It doesn't seem fair b/c you can have all of the exact same knowledge as a post-bacc at a snap-shot in time as some 4.0 at a top USNWR school but personality is more important than knowledge.

As for the MCAT... im very skeptical of the criticism people are levying against it. Yes, there is a very small amount of questions asked from the total "question space", but even 0.1% is usually good enough to get a reasonably good total score.

It's like public opinion polls... usually they ask a couple thousand people, even though there are 300+ million in the U.S., but these opinion polls are usually very accurate around some variance. Across all 3 sections... I think there are enough questions to cancel out a lot of statistical "noise" and give a representative assesment of somebody's knowledge.

 

[ahumdinger]

Sucks to all of you who are in these very competitive schools. As someone said earlier, this is all a game. I did not go to Cornell because I knew i would have to work my ass off 10x more than I am now to get a crappy gpa. Fact is that med. school isn't very complex in learning the material it's just a lot of memorization and reading. The sciences at these undergrad schools like berkely, mit, cornell, chicago, etc... is really meant for the students who will not go into medicine (unless you are a supergenius who studies quantum physics while skydiving). But out of all of these competitive students from these hardcore colleges, how many of them can dedicate time to extracurriculars, social time, etc.

We're talking about becoming medical doctors people, we're not innovators and we're not expected to be rocket sciences, so play the game right and you will win.

For me, I confirmed my decision to go to medical school throughout college, not before. So for those who don't know for sure if they want to go into medical school, it's a little harder to play the game that early. I gripe a lot about that decision now, but only because that is part of being a uchicago student-- you gotta complain and feel underappreciated. I guess the only thing to do is to go where you feel best and work with what you've got.

 

[MarzMD]

Sucks to all of you who are in these very competitive schools. As someone said earlier, this is all a game. I did not go to Cornell because I knew i would have to work my ass off 10x more than I am now to get a crappy gpa. Fact is that med. school isn't very complex in learning the material it's just a lot of memorization and reading. The sciences at these undergrad schools like berkely, mit, cornell, chicago, etc... is really meant for the students who will not go into medicine (unless you are a supergenius who studies quantum physics while skydiving). But out of all of these competitive students from these hardcore colleges, how many of them can dedicate time to extracurriculars, social time, etc.

We're talking about becoming medical doctors people, we're not innovators and we're not expected to be rocket sciences, so play the game right and you will win.

If only you made this post 5 years ago..and I knew about SDN.