VCU/MCV or EVMS

[ironman05]

I saw some info on this in the VCU central thread. Wanted to get some info. I'm oos and looking to choose between the two. Here's what I've got, let's see what others think:
EVMS
-nice children's hospital
-smaller class size
-near ocean
-free parking (plenty)
-no wireless
-classes recorded as mp3
-older facilities
-clear, straightforward match list by person
-crappy library hours & few other choices for studying
VCU
-wireless
-traditional note service (not mp3 as far as i know)
-larger class size (small negative here)
-parking nightmare (as I understand it)
-unclear match list online (makes me wonder...)
-great boards prep during M2

Anyone have things to add to these to help make an informed picture of the two?

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[cfdavid]

Definately EVMS! (but I may have sinister motives )

 

[jbone]

Definately EVMS! (but I may have sinister motives )

Me too!! GO EVMS!!!!!!!!!!
(cf, you and I need to get lives )

 

[paceac]

Me too!! GO EVMS!!!!!!!!!!
(cf, you and I need to get lives )

Thanks guys for doing the dirty work for me. EVMS or bust!

 

[ghostchild]

Suppose I'll go ahead and join this thread too. I'm new to SDN!
I'm in-state and have the VCU interview upcoming but already gone through the experience at EVMS. I really liked the EVMS experience. Some people at VCU Central have talked about a "friendly competetive" atmosphere there but I though evms was more of a "non-competetive" atmosphere with many friendly students, although I would bet that both schools have a few stuck-up cutthroats. But the cutthroats usually end up at uva (not a bad thing they actually have the highest gpa and mcat averages).

But I don't agree that at small med schools you get sick of their classmates after a while ... but I graduated from a h.s. w/about 50 in my class so I'm use to operating in small classes. I think it's nice when the professor knows your name instead of just another # in the grade book. EVMS is also up front about focusing on primary care and educating great clinicians. I would even say that it's unmatched nationwide if you're into pediatrics. With that said, they have great matches percentage-wise in all fields, even dermatology. My summary of the school--It's great and I'd be happy to be there. It's fairly new, est. in 1973 and a small # of accepted students means a lot of out-of-staters don't really consider it so it's not as well known as VCU. But in my opinion, EVMS and VCU are both great!

I'll know a little more about VCU here in a few weeks. But so far I haven't liked how corresponding with VCU has been so difficult. It took them four-weeks for my LOR to arrive after being mailed ... twice. But I'll not hold that against them, sometimes mail is lost. I also wish they would notify you of acceptance as soon as it's decided, but they have specified dates for offers. I actually have a few friends there that absolutely love it. VCU isn't as primary care oriented (because primary care is a big thing in VA I guess) but they are more into specialties than EVMS. And if you can survive Richmond, it's a great population to work on with an established med school that's been around since before the civil war that's respected around the country.
Just my useles in-state 2c.
But I do hope some of our oos friends chip in. I am kinda curious why they're all interested in VCU ... maybe they know something I don't?? I'll be honest in saying I'm leaning toward EVMS but I won't decide until after the VCU interview ... if I can fool them into letting me in too !

 

[Fusion]

.

 

[Fusion]

I am an out-of-state student at EVMS (just completed my first semester). I don't know much about VCU, though what I have heard has been favorable for the most part. We have a smaller class size which could be a plus or minus depending on how you look at it. Our curriculum is pretty traditional and our standardized patient program is excellent clinical training as well. We have learned to take histories and will soon begin learning how to take physicals. Thus we tend to be very prepared for the clincial skills component of Step 2 in addition to getting an jump start on seeing "patients." One thing that we can brag about is that EVMS students consistently score the highest on the USMLEs (steps 1 and 2) out of all the schools in Virginia, (including UVA ). This is probably because our professors have us thinking about the boards from week one (i.e., they mention it often enough for us to keep it in mind). Speaking of professors, they are extremely dedicated and willing to help the students. They don't spoon feed us, but they do go the exra mile to make sure that everyone is up to speed. Funny you should mention parking - yes, parking in the free garage just across the street is very convenient. The whole primary care focus is nothing to worry about. That is, although the school provides us with plenty of opportunities to become exposed to primary care (such as our longitudinal generalist mentorship which we start next month w/ a PCP), they certainly do not discourage us from keeping our options open. We have clubs for students interested in surgery, dermatology, anesthesia, etc. In fact, a medical school that is somewhat focused on primary care can certainly be a positive thing because it demonsrates their mission to provide a strong foundation in the fundamentals of medicine more than anything else. This is a valuable asset in any field of medicine.

 

[wannagraduate]

without reading through the other posts in their entirety, to me, lecture hours are a major plus for vcu: 8-12 and you're done (vs. evms where you could be going 8 or 9 to 4 or 5). but it would depend on your style, i suppose; i know i am much more with it in the mornings.

if i am lucky enough to get into both, i'm going to have a hard time deciding; i liked both!

 

[Fusion]

without reading through the other posts in their entirety, to me, lecture hours are a major plus for vcu: 8-12 and you're done (vs. evms where you could be going 8 or 9 to 4 or 5). but it would depend on your style, i suppose; i know i am much more with it in the mornings.

if i am lucky enough to get into both, i'm going to have a hard time deciding; i liked both!

Yes, I must say, time spent in class/labs is one drawback. We usually start at 9 or 10 and are in class until late afternoon. Not every day, but most days for sure. But attendance is not taken and all the lectures are available online as transcripts and on mp3 format.

 

[lastrun82]

But the cutthroats usually end up at uva (not a bad thing they actually have the highest gpa and mcat averages).

just curious, where have you heard that uva is cut throat? it seems to me that every school has every type of student
e.g. at cornell one of the 2nd years talked about how it was impossible to find a more laid back med student (and that she took naps every afternoon)...but then i heard that one of her classmates was always studying cause he was gunning for ortho

all i'm saying is that for every 'i know a med student who is cut-throat' story there's one about the opposite case
such as one uva med student whom i know said that he felt sorry for the people whose lives revolved around test scores and that he thought it was an honor to just have the opportunity to attend medical school...doesn't sound very cut-throat to me

 

[cfdavid]

Me too!! GO EVMS!!!!!!!!!!
(cf, you and I need to get lives )

lives? what do you mean? who wouldn't go to EVMS over VCU??

come on jbone!!

 

[jbone]

lives? what do you mean? who wouldn't go to EVMS over VCU??

come on jbone!!

hehe . Of course I would go to EVMS over VCU. VCU is a dump.
Why the hell are you still awake at this hour?

 

[cfdavid]

i went out tonight. saw a bunch of hotties too..... i'm kind of buzzed right now. sh...t i need to sleep.

 

[ghostchild]

just curious, where have you heard that uva is cut throat? it seems to me that every school has every type of student

Mostly from fellow pre-med undergrads that have been on interviews as I was going from freshman to soph to jun ... etc. They've gotten the impression, based on interview experiences from student tour guides and other students that just talk are just often viewed as more friendly at VCU or EVMS. I've even heard of UVa asking a question something like... "Why would UVa want somebody like you from [insert derogatory remark about hometown such as hillbilly or run-down]?" during the actual interview.

Of course this isn't true for every student and UVa now has the pass/fail grading system, so I'm sure UVA has some really friendly students. UVA is also very numbers oriented with acceptance and you've not really got a decent shot no matter your ECs or PS without a 4.75 30. IN MY OPINION, it just seems like a selection process that's so numbers oriented and an atmosphere that is inevitably cut throat.

 

[ShyRem]

GO TO EVMS - that way there'll be a spot for me at VCU.

Go where your gut tells you to be. Stop stressing about it, stop obsessing for a few days. Let your brain mull things over subconsciously and ask yourself where you REALLY want to be next year in about a week.

 

[chattkis]

Well, let me add my two cents in! I have the blessing to choose one over the other and I am going with VCU. A few of my main reasons why:

• Class 8-12 most days (not 9-5 or whatever EVMS is)
• Exams on Fridays (EVMS has exams on MONDAYS ICK!!)
• Connected to an amazing hospital where you will see anything and everything you want to
• Massie Cancer Center (sp?) Im thinking about Oncology...
• Great Administrative staff
• Great resources for notes, etc
• Renovating a building just for Student services

Why is parking such a problem? Park at the bottom of the hill and walk darnit! Who cares?

Anyway, I liked EVMS also but VCU is just where I fit. I think everyone should visit both and then they can figure it out for themselves.

 

[jbone]

GO TO EVMS - that way there'll be a spot for me at VCU.

Go where your gut tells you to be. Stop stressing about it, stop obsessing for a few days. Let your brain mull things over subconsciously and ask yourself where you REALLY want to be next year in about a week.

Yea, save me a spot too!

 

[cfdavid]

I strongly suggest EVMS. Just PM me for information on my and jbone's interest free scholarship fund for those that give up their place at VCU for EVMS... It's a good deal.

 

[ironman05]

One thing that we can brag about is that EVMS students consistently score the highest on the USMLEs (steps 1 and 2) out of all the schools in Virginia, (including UVA ).

So how do you compile those statistics? are we talking average score? Median score? how do the standard dev's compare? That's a potentially deceptive statement, depending on how you interperet the data. As far as I can tell from what information is available to me, I think that students at both schools do comparatively well...? Clarification would be great! Thanks.

 

[ironman05]

What about our match list is unclear? Was our ENT match at Harvard not good enough? I'll be happy to clarify anything.

The match list that I was able to find, and that the admissions department directed me to online, only lists hospitals and not the specialty that people matched in. To me, that is an important piece of information that is missing. Maybe there is another match list somewhere, but I have been unable to find it, and there was no more information on the match list provided during my interview day. There were obviously great hospitals listed. I just wanted to see the specialties...

 

[vicinihil]

To be honest, I don't really see why so many people want to attend EVMS. Not only is it not accreditted in many of its departments, it doesn't do a very good job placing students into top notch and competitive residencies (eg Surgery, Radiology, etc). Granted EVMS is in a "city" but wouldn't you get a much better hands on experience in the city of Richmond where you hear an ambulance or firetruck fly by every 30 minutes. VCU also has higher match statistics (lying about this online would be a conspiracy theory, unproven at best).

Also, I don't understand why some people in this country (cough led by Bush cough) feel that PARKING and the APPEARANCE of a campus is such a big deal; enough to pick one school over the other. ONE WELL RANKED SCHOOL vs an UNRANKED one (US NEWS and World Report).

I don't know what you guys look into when applying and picking medical schools but personally I'd go with the one that will give you a wide variety of patient contact, great respect in the eyes of residency directors, and accreditation.

When did you guys hear EVMS was great? I understand it's filled with friendly people, but so is VCOM. Why don't you go there? They do well on their USMLEs (yes they do take it) and someone got a 99%. GO VCOM!

 

[vicinihil]

Just as an addendum,

Getting EVMS is a great accomplishment and I congratulate you all. Getting into MCV is great as well. If you had the choice, then my above response will apply. If not, definitely go to the one you go in!

 

[ghostchild]

To be honest, I don't really see why so many people want to attend EVMS. Not only is it not accreditted in many of its departments, it doesn't do a very good job placing students into top notch and competitive residencies (eg Surgery, Radiology, etc). Granted EVMS is in a "city" but wouldn't you get a much better hands on experience in the city of Richmond where you hear an ambulance or firetruck fly by every 30 minutes. VCU also has higher match statistics (lying about this online would be a conspiracy theory, unproven at best).

Also, I don't understand why some people in this country (cough led by Bush cough) feel that PARKING and the APPEARANCE of a campus is such a big deal; enough to pick one school over the other. ONE WELL RANKED SCHOOL vs an UNRANKED one (US NEWS and World Report).

I don't know what you guys look into when applying and picking medical schools but personally I'd go with the one that will give you a wide variety of patient contact, great respect in the eyes of residency directors, and accreditation.

When did you guys hear EVMS was great? I understand it's filled with friendly people, but so is VCOM. Why don't you go there? They do well on their USMLEs (yes they do take it) and someone got a 99%. GO VCOM!

vicinihill,
As i said before, i'm not taking sides as I'm applying to both. But could you cite some sources where evms is not accreditted in any department. I've done some research online and all I can find is that they were granted an 18 month accreditation last year and will be re-evaluated next year in an article that claimed Gov. Warner bumped up their budget by by 4.2 million next year to make sure they remain accredited.
You also claimed they don't do a good job of placing students into top notch residencies ... I am skeptical of interpreting this because I know the school has a primary care focus. Where could I find data regarding the Percentage of students applying to those accepted instead of basing this on the Gross number accepted?

The article I read also stated that EVMS reached a new deal with Sentara Norfolk General, Kings Daughters, and Bon Secours Hampton Roads over the past 2 months or so. Would these agreements not provide students of EVMS with great patient contact in a highly urbanized area?

I'm not trying to pick your argument apart, I'm just trying to get all the information before I commit for 4 years. It did seem a little biased. Thanks for your help.

 

[vicinihil]

vicinihill,
As i said before, i'm not taking sides as I'm applying to both. But could you cite some sources where evms is not accreditted in any department. I've done some research online and all I can find is that they were granted an 18 month accreditation last year and will be re-evaluated next year in an article that claimed Gov. Warner bumped up their budget by by 4.2 million next year to make sure they remain accredited.
You also claimed they don't do a good job of placing students into top notch residencies ... I am skeptical of interpreting this because I know the school has a primary care focus. Where could I find data regarding the Percentage of students applying to those accepted instead of basing this on the Gross number accepted?

The article I read also stated that EVMS reached a new deal with Sentara Norfolk General, Kings Daughters, and Bon Secours Hampton Roads over the past 2 months or so. Would these agreements not provide students of EVMS with great patient contact in a highly urbanized area?

I'm not trying to pick your argument apart, I'm just trying to get all the information before I commit for 4 years. It did seem a little biased. Thanks for your help.

I didn;t say they were not accreditted in any, because a few of their departments are....a few eg ObGYN and Emergency Medicine. There may be a few more but the last time we had a speaker come to talk to my school about EVMS, he answered to the question of accreditation as many of our departments are accreditted and not all. This may have changed very recently. EVMS website makes a big deal of its Surgical Assisstant and MPH programs being certified.

Richmond is a city filled with poverty and underprivileged people. Being one of the most dangerous cities in America (not on either VCU campuses but off campus into the "ghetto") there are constant shootings, stabbings, drug OD, etc. People say that MCV gets the best clinical exposure in Virginia. Its hospital is also a level 1 trauma center in its region. Many cases presented are also only seen in a poor urban environment like Richmond.

The speaker from EVMS also stated that their school prides itself in placing students into primary care positions and places most students into those positions in the state of VA . If that's what they are good at then go if being a primary care doc is what you want. The MSAR also does a good job at the breakdown of internships received by students.

 

[ShyRem]

Ok. I'll bite. Why were there no derm matches?

 

[Vizsla]

thats a pretty impressive list...Now I really wish they would accept me

 

[ghostchild]

Since this is a evms vs. vcu thread. Here's the address for EVMS matches:

If it doesn't come through, it's easy to find on the evms website through the office of student affairs. It's organized by name and not specialty and I don't wanna re-organize it out.

http://www.evms.edu/students/docs/2005-match.pdf

 

[ghostchild]

I found this site in another thread and thought it might be a huge help:

http://www.amsa.org/premed/medsurvey/

It's a sight where you can compare medical schools based on surveys of students that attend. The results you find when you compare EVMS and VCU might be surprising but the schools are similar in most areas. The only thing I didn't like was the small sample size. Most students seem to like both schools.

 

[ironman05]

Here ya go! Feel free to ask me why there were no derm matches.

Havarti, thanks so much for that listing. It would have been so much better had VCU simply made the listing available in that format. Thanks for taking the time to put that together.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! (a tad early...)

 

[ironman05]

Was anyone able to see any of the recreational facilities at VCU during their interview? I didn't have a chance. I was told there was even a pool. Anyone know? Good facilities? Is the pool 25m or olympic?

 

[bigdan]

Don't know about the other schools, or what your state status is, but EVMS was gonna charge me tuition as an out-of-state student for all 4 years, and they give little if any scholarship/grant money.

Did look like a good school though, but I can't f*uck with paying 300K for my degree.

dc

 

[jbone]

Remember, cf and I will be offering a scholarship to those that go to EVMS.
(cf is paying for it all. )

 

[apps-suck]

i think im gonna go with vcu over evms, but I was wondering if anyones got any pros/cons about uva vs EVMS and VCU (besides possibly competitve environment)

heres what i got
- more research opportunities
- strong reputation among residency directors
- charlottesville (plus or minus, depending on if you want a bigger place)
- rotations around VA, required 3rd year in Roanoke? (i really like the option vcu has of doing 3rd and 4th year in fairfax)

i feel like i'm leaning towards uva, but dont have the option yet (interview coming up), so as of now im picking VCU....anyone else?

 

[ironman05]

I post this question on the VCU Central thread, but I thought that I would add it here to see if I can get more feedback:

Does anyone know how many people are to a cadaver in anatomy at VCU? EVMS? Just curious if anyone who has go through it found that they got enough contact and were involved closesly enough to feel as if they had ample opportunity to do well. Just one more thing to think about.

Thanks so much.

 

[cfdavid]

once again, jbone's personally funding scholarships to anyone that chooses an alternative over VCU. he's independently wealthy, so he agreed to this in writing.

just PM jbone for more details. he'll make it worth your while.

i'm a co-sponsor of the fund, but mainly handle the administration duties. jbone keeps it fully funded at all times.

 

[jbone]

once again, jbone's personally funding scholarships to anyone that chooses an alternative over VCU. he's independently wealthy, so he agreed to this in writing.

just PM jbone for more details. he'll make it worth your while.

i'm a co-sponsor of the fund, but mainly handle the administration duties. jbone keeps it fully funded at all times.

Your right! I'm selling my body for your scholarships. Looking like me...it's going to take a lifetime to get your down-payments for your seat deposits at EVMS.
I guess chicks don't dig the 6'7" 270 pounders. (but they should )
Because of this, I have been forced to put cf on the street making my money for your scholarships. (believe me ladies, he'll make it in a night )
We'll be doing this prostitution in Richmond (of course) because of the crappy situation that VCU is in. Crappy city, crappy school, crappy living conditions, and cf selling it on the street . GO EVMS!!!! (work that thang cf )

 

[cfdavid]

Your right! I'm selling my body for your scholarships. Looking like me...it's going to take a lifetime to get your down-payments for your seat deposits at EVMS.
I guess chicks don't dig the 6'7" 270 pounders. (but they should )
Because of this, I have been forced to put cf on the street making my money for your scholarships. (believe me ladies, he'll make it in a night )
We'll be doing this prostitution in Richmond (of course) because of the crappy situation that VCU is in. Crappy city, crappy school, crappy living conditions, and cf selling it on the street . GO EVMS!!!! (work that thang cf )

I'll get right on it. Just a few more bachelorette parties here in Detroit, and I can afford my ticket to get down there!

 

[tacrum43]

We'll be doing this prostitution in Richmond (of course) because of the crappy situation that VCU is in. Crappy city, crappy school, crappy living conditions, and cf selling it on the street . GO EVMS!!!! (work that thang cf )

Why is it that you guys want VCU so bad again?

 

[jbone]

Why is it that you guys want VCU so bad again?

Why not? Its a great school. Besides, Harvard hasn't called me yet.

 

[tacrum43]

Why not? Its a great school. Besides, Harvard hasn't called me yet.

I'm sure that it is, but why the strong preference over EVMS? I thought EVMS was great when I interviewed there. Haven't been to VCU yet, but I couldn't imagine it being *that* much better. I mean what do they have? Tap-dancing miniature dolphins?

 

[Vizsla]

I'm sure that it is, but why the strong preference over EVMS? I thought EVMS was great when I interviewed there. Haven't been to VCU yet, but I couldn't imagine it being *that* much better. I mean what do they have? Tap-dancing miniature dolphins?

surprisingly yes....theyve also got a great medical center, only around 4 hrs of class every day, cheap housing, friendly atmosphere...only drawback for me was Richmond but I think I would get over it real quick if they accepted me

 

[tacrum43]

surprisingly yes....theyve also got a great medical center, only around 4 hrs of class every day, cheap housing, friendly atmosphere...only drawback for me was Richmond but I think I would get over it real quick if they accepted me

Well their hospital did sound pretty awesome already (especially the ER), but now that I know they have the miniature dolphins...what other school could I possibly choose? Sorry cf and jbone. The secret is out.

 

[jbone]

Well their hospital did sound pretty awesome already (especially the ER), but now that I know they have the miniature dolphins...what other school could I possibly choose? Sorry cf and jbone. The secret is out.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Damn those dolphins. No more dolphin free tuna for me and my family.
And you know those plastic six-pack hold together thingys? Oh yea, I'm throwin those DIRECTLY into the ocean.
By the way, didn't interview at EVMS. They kicked me in the jimmy a long time ago. Just call me "uni" from now on.

 

[tacrum43]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Damn those dolphins. No more dolphin free tuna for me and my family.
And you know those plastic six-pack hold together thingys? Oh yea, I'm throwin those DIRECTLY into the ocean.
By the way, didn't interview at EVMS. They kicked me in the jimmy a long time ago. Just call me "uni" from now on.

Yes, I seem to remember you coughing up a testicle in another thread...

 

[tacrum43]

Just thinking about that burgeoning, bogus industry makes my skin crawl and my blood boil.

Geesh. It's like hearing AT&T bitch about VOIPs. Chill out.

 

[jbone]

Geesh. It's like hearing AT&T bitch about VOIPs. Chill out.

 

[tacrum43]

Chill out? I'm drinking beer and watching South Park. It ain't exactly high stress around here.

As for standardized patients, just you wait, my boy. Just you wait...

Well sorry, I'm not telepathic you know. You sounded pretty enraged in your post. Kind of disproportionately so in my opinion...but I've only experienced about 20 minutes worth of a standardized patient so I can't know for sure I guess.

 

[ghostchild]

So Harvartii, you just don't like the SP program at EVMS (and longer class hours I think I heard previously)? Why do you hate it so much if you never went to EVMS? Is there some kind of VCU/EVMS rivalry that I don't know about?? Ok, you love VCU, but what is so bad about EVMS that you seem to absolutely despise it?

And you other guys just like VCU and don't have anything against EVMS? It seems like a pretty easy transition to go from an SP to a real patient. They work real patients in with the SP program from what I understand. Yeah, I get it, you want VCU to accept you so others shouldn't go there ... right, but it sounds like you're putting down EVMS along with it. But, it seemed like a great school when I was there. Is there something that I'm missing? They seemed to have a great atmosphere, great students, and it seemed like an atmosphere where I could do well but not be stressed out. I've still got the VCU interview in early Feb so I really am still comparing these schools (ISer so sorry you guys I wouldn't be taking one of your spots anywayz!). Do you really think they produce physicians that aren't as qualified though?

 

[jbone]

And you other guys just like VCU and don't have anything against EVMS? Yeah, I get it, you want VCU to accept you so others shouldn't go there ... right, but it sounds like you're putting down EVMS along with it. But, it seemed like a great school when I was there. Is there something that I'm missing? They seemed to have a great atmosphere, great students, and it seemed like an atmosphere where I could do well but not be stressed out. I've still got the VCU interview in early Feb so I really am still comparing these schools (ISer so sorry you guys I wouldn't be taking one of your spots anywayz!). Do you really think they produce physicians that aren't as qualified though?

We aren't putting down EVMS or VCU. Both schools are fantastic. Some of us just like VCU and want to go there so we BS with the people on the fence. And if they take us seriously then they are . So we JOKE about it. Thats it. period. Sarcasm is great...isn't it?

 

[ghostchild]

We aren't putting down EVMS or VCU. Both schools are fantastic. Some of us just like VCU and want to go there so we BS with the people on the fence. And if they take us seriously then they are . So we JOKE about it. Thats it. period. Sarcasm is great...isn't it?

Yeah, you're right, I'm actually just trying to get people to go to evms so there'll be a spot for me at vcu too!! I've honestly not listened to a word of your alls stuff I was just trying to sort thru it. Sorry didn't mean to strike a nerve!
Sarcasm is great, but harvartii appears to be .... what's the word ... serious. And I do wanna hear the knocks on both schools in addition to the good stuff so I don't care to hear bad stuff about both school. Harvarti, is there anything at all you didn't like about VCU?