VCU vs. U. of Toledo vs. USF vs. Tulane

[struggler]

I liked all of these schools during my interviews, so I'm having a hard time deciding. I am OOS for all of these schools, but if I am not mistaken, I believe it's relatively easy to gain in-state tuition status at UT and USF (I know Tulane doesn't matter, due to being a private school). But is it really true that once OOS at VCU, then OOS for all 4 years? Also, is it really that easy to gain in-state at UT and USF? Obviously financial reasons aren't the only considerations, so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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[locus000]

saw this in the Florida thread
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6804474&postcount=2197

hope it help, im applying to usf myself (im instate) and they are very good with OOS student

 

[struggler]

thanks!

 

[Gut Shot]

Indeed, it's virtually impossible to get IS status at VCU if you don't start that way. I had a number of classmates attempt the maneuver, and I believe the failure rate was 100%.

 

[BoxingTheStars]

At USF I believe all you need to do is get a FL drivers license and register to vote 1 yr before 2nd year starts to get instate tuition. If you haven't already, email someone from financial aid and they'll send you the info. It seems pretty easy to me.

At Toledo it is also fairly easy, although I know of one stipulation: you can't receive any financial support from OOS relatives during that first year where you are trying to get residency. But they will help you make sure you meet all the requirements.

As far as which school to pick... does location matter to you? For weather-related reasons, or closer to family? Big city (New Orleans, Tampa) or much smaller city (Toledo)? What about curriculum differences: would you rather have anatomy spread out through the first year (USF) or get it over with in your first block of med school (Toledo)? How many hours per day to students spend in lecture? What about the clinical opportunities & affiliations? If cost matters, is there a significant difference? What about cost of living?

Just some things to think about. I was only accepted to USF and Toledo out of your bunch so PM me if you have some specific questions about either of those two.

 

[struggler]

Thanks for all the input. How would you pick between USF and VCU then? My main concern for USF and VCU right now is that VCU is going to be more expensive due to no IS tuition after the first year, whereas USF allows that. Also, I would like to go back to CA for residency if possible. In that case, is one school going to be better than the other? I've heard it depends on the specialty you choose and your own individual strengths, but just wondering if the school you go to mattered at all. Also, do you know which one is ranked higher? I remember VCU having a huge hospital, but I can't quite remember USF's hospital. In terms of clinical opportunities, which one would be better? I want to keep my options open for different specialties, so ideally I'd go to a school that would be able to prepare me the best to go into whatever specialty I end up choosing. Also, just out of curiosity, do you know which one has a higher board score (though I'm not quite sure how to use board scores to evaluate schools). Thanks!

 

[Gut Shot]

I've heard it depends on the specialty you choose and your own individual strengths, but just wondering if the school you go to mattered at all.

If it does, there is no way to tell in advance which one will benefit you more. You may as well flip a coin, and I say that without a shred of hyperbole. MCV/VCU and USF both fall into that faceless muddle of schools between top 30 and bottom 30. Barring some compelling reason to choose one over the other, follow the money.

Oh, and I'm an MCV grad.

 

[struggler]

Does anybody know the avg. board scores for VCU and USF? Is one academically better than the other? Thanks.

 

[Gut Shot]

Does anybody know the avg. board scores for VCU and USF? Is one academically better than the other? Thanks.

No and no. You're welcome.

 

[Hallm_7]

Forget VCU. OOS tuition for four years is ridiculous. Choose between South Florida and Toledo. Having finished the first three years of medical school, I recommend to anyone and everyone I can to go to the cheapest school you can. I would never even consider a private school if I had an acceptance to a public school (assuming the cost difference is significant). I wouldn't have said that as an undergrad. I say that now that I'm going to be $140,000 in debt with friends that will easily top $200,000 in debt at private school. I'm sorry, no school in the US provides $100,000 worth of better education than any other school.

You're going to get similar preclinical and clinical experiences anywhere. DKA is treated the same whether you're at University of Toledo, South Florida, or Mass General. Ditto for 99% of the other admissions you'll encounter during medical school.

If cost is similar for Toledo and USF then consider the friendliness of the school, location, weather, schedule, etc.

By the way, average board scores have very little to do with the school's educational program. It has far more to do with the quality of student each school attracts. A student at Harvard will probably get about the same score whether he went to Harvard or No-Name Public School. Harvard and Hopkins and Michigan all have higher Step I scores because they have students that got 35+ on the MCAT. Also, consider that your class will very possibly not even receive a score for Step I. Most likely Step I and II will be combined to be taken following third year, and it will be pass/fail only with no scores reported at all.

 

[Gut Shot]

forget Vcu. Oos Tuition For Four Years Is Ridiculous. Choose Between South Florida And Toledo. Having Finished The First Three Years Of Medical School, I Recommend To Anyone And Everyone I Can To Go To The Cheapest School You Can. I Would Never Even Consider A Private School If I Had An Acceptance To A Public School (assuming The Cost Difference Is Significant). I Wouldn't Have Said That As An Undergrad. I Say That Now That I'm Going To Be $140,000 In Debt With Friends That Will Easily Top $200,000 In Debt At Private School. I'm Sorry, No School In The Us Provides $100,000 Worth Of Better Education Than Any Other School.

You're Going To Get Similar Preclinical And Clinical Experiences Anywhere. Dka Is Treated The Same Whether You're At University Of Toledo, South Florida, Or Mass General. Ditto For 99% Of The Other Admissions You'll Encounter During Medical School.

If Cost Is Similar For Toledo And Usf Then Consider The Friendliness Of The School, Location, Weather, Schedule, Etc.

By The Way, Average Board Scores Have Very Little To Do With The School's Educational Program. It Has Far More To Do With The Quality Of Student Each School Attracts. A Student At Harvard Will Probably Get About The Same Score Whether He Went To Harvard Or No-name Public School. Harvard And Hopkins And Michigan All Have Higher Step I Scores Because They Have Students That Got 35+ On The Mcat. Also, Consider That Your Class Will Very Possibly Not Even Receive A Score For Step I. Most Likely Step I And Ii Will Be Combined To Be Taken Following Third Year, And It Will Be Pass/fail Only With No Scores Reported At All.

Qft.

 

[UnderdogMD]

Also, consider that your class will very possibly not even receive a score for Step I. Most likely Step I and II will be combined to be taken following third year, and it will be pass/fail only with no scores reported at all.

In all likelihood the class of 2012 will be unaffected and remain under the current system.

New June 10, 2008 info.

"The Composite Committee’s actions mark the beginning of a new phase, during which staff will create possible models for a potential redesign of the USMLE within the framework recommended by the CEUP. We emphasize that the process will be evolutionary, continually seeking feedback and building on the insights we gain from many stakeholders. We anticipate that the entire process will take a minimum of four years – and quite possibly longer before it will impact any test-takers."

http://www.usmle.org/General_Information/review.html

 

[JA Prufrock]

In all likelihood the class of 2012 will be unaffected and remain under the current system.

New June 10, 2008 info.

"The Composite Committee’s actions mark the beginning of a new phase, during which staff will create possible models for a potential redesign of the USMLE within the framework recommended by the CEUP. We emphasize that the process will be evolutionary, continually seeking feedback and building on the insights we gain from many stakeholders. We anticipate that the entire process will take a minimum of four years – and quite possibly longer before it will impact any test-takers."

http://www.usmle.org/General_Information/review.html

If, eventually, they did end up restructuring the exam so that students only received a pass/fail rating, how would residency directors rank applicants? Would they just place more emphasis on clerkship grades/evals and things like that?

 

[UnderdogMD]

If, eventually, they did end up restructuring the exam so that students only received a pass/fail rating, how would residency directors rank applicants? Would they just place more emphasis on clerkship grades/evals and things like that?

It is all up in the air and there are definitely questions to be answered like how would you compare medical students between different schools without some sort of standardizing factor. At this point keep in mind that the USMLE could potentially change but don't worry about it.

The relevant thread with some good discussion.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=467963

 

[luckycharms08]

just curious as to how you're holding so many acceptances post-May 15th

 

[struggler]

I'm actually only holding one acceptance and trying to decide (given the 2 weeks to decide). I was on the waitlist, only been recently taken off, so it's all after 5/15. I do need to decide soon though. I only have acceptances at 2, but just wondering if I should be waiting for the other two (I should be hearing back from one within the 2 week period that I was given) and how I should decide if I were to be taken off the waitlist. I know the question is moot if I only have 2 acceptances. Just curious as to how people would decide.

Also wondering about what people's opinions are on ethnic diversity at VCU and USF.

I still can't quite get over the fact that the difference for the cost of attending at VCU and USF is so large. Just for tuition and fees for all four years would be $156,948 at VCU and $108,564 at USF.

I guess if I'm not taken off the USF waitlist, the choice between VCU and USF would be simple. Between UT and VCU, I just liked VCU a little better when I interviewed there. But again, it'd be a ~$32,000 difference between UT and VCU.

 

[pianola]

I'm sorry, no school in the US provides $100,000 worth of better education than any other school.

Food for thought, certainly.