Very bad GPA. Great MCAT. Where do I apply?

[UsernameFree]

2.0 undergrad GPA. Didn't really care about school. Took me 3 extra years to finish undergrad (when most people get their MDs in that time), because I didn't care. Put on academic probation twice. Failed at least 8 or 9 classes.

Graduated (finally) about 2 years ago with a degree in biology. Currently working in industry doing research in neuroscience.

About 7 months back my dad had a stroke. I guess that gave me the motivation and perspective I needed for my lazy fat ass. Busted my ass studying for it.

Got a 520 which i'm told is a decent score.

I'm almost 27 now. Not sure what to do. What do I do?

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[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Troll meter going off.

You'll have to take it again. By the time you get your GPA up, your score will most likely have expired.

You won't get accepted with your current GPA.

 

[Soccer171983]

I have never seen anyone get in with that low of a gpa. I would consider doing graduate school to get that GPA up as rapidly as you can. In addition, you may want to consider Post bacc program to a DO school such as lecom. Most places wont consider your even if your mcat was substantially higher because you are considered ultra high risk. Schools do not want to take people who are going to fail out and by your gpa you would be considered high risk. Like I said, best shot would be exemplary performance in graduate school to get your gpa up and possibly taking MCAT again if necessary (it may expire by the time your done). The quickest right here right now would be apply to all post back programs and hope you could sneak into med school by crushing post bacc.

 

[MD_Odyssey]

Congrats on your MCAT. Best bet is to do post-back or like someone else said obtain a Masters to bump up the GPA.

 

[UsernameFree]

Troll meter going off.

You'll have to take it again. By the time you get your GPA up, your score will most likely have expired.

You won't get accepted with your current GPA.

Sorry, don't have time. I'm almost 27.

I have never seen anyone get in with that low of a gpa. I would consider doing graduate school to get that GPA up as rapidly as you can. In addition, you may want to consider Post bacc program to a DO school such as lecom. Most places wont consider your even if your mcat was substantially higher because you are considered ultra high risk. Schools do not want to take people who are going to fail out and by your gpa you would be considered high risk. Like I said, best shot would be exemplary performance in graduate school to get your gpa up and possibly taking MCAT again if necessary (it may expire by the time your done). The quickest right here right now would be apply to all post back programs and hope you could sneak into med school by crushing post bacc.

If I was a few years younger then I wouldn't have a problem going to grad school or taking more time. I don't have time. Or money.

 

[UsernameFree]

Congrats on your MCAT. Best bet is to do post-back or like someone else said obtain a Masters to bump up the GPA.

Thanks, I don't have time to do that. I'm almost 27.

 

[Soccer171983]

Sorry, don't have time. I'm almost 27.



If I was a few years younger then I wouldn't have a problem going to grad school or taking more time. I don't have time. Or money.

Post bacc is a one year program. It essentially is a much slower truncated mini med school. It will strength your sciences and a high gpa in post bacc could get you directly accepted into the next years class.

 

[NarutoMD]

Thanks, I don't have time to do that. I'm almost 27.

Sorry mate, but a 2.0 will not cut it even with a 528. Do you have any volunteer or clinical experiences? If you don't, you better get at it. It will take you at least 2 years for you to improve your application enough to apply for DO. I understand the process is going to be expensive but if medicine is your passion, it won't matter. I am not really convinced that medicine is your passion though by your responses.

 

[Terror Billy]

People are going to flame me for this, but if you're really motivated and are willing to take a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE risk, you could always try the Caribbean? There's no guarantee you'll match in the US, but it's probably your best bet if you are unwilling to do a post-bac

 

[UsernameFree]

Post bacc is a one year program. It essentially is a much slower truncated mini med school. It will strength your sciences and a high gpa in post bacc could get you directly accepted into the next years class.

This is a good idea, but I think I already missed the deadline for this years programs. So I'll have to wait at least another 2 years to start med school.

Sorry mate, but a 2.0 will not cut it even with a 528. Do you have any volunteer or clinical experiences? If you don't, you better get at it. It will take you at least 2 years for you to improve your application enough to apply for DO. I understand the process is going to be expensive but if medicine is your passion, it won't matter. I am not really convinced that medicine is your passion though by your responses.

It is my passion. I also don't want to be 40 when I finally get my first mortgage, married, and have kids, I think it's also reasonable to be concerned about that at my age.

 

[NarutoMD]

Medicine takes passion and commitment. The OP seems to not have that based on his responses. I am around his age and if I need another 2 or 3 years to get into medical school, I will still do it because medicine is my passion. If you really want something, you will do everything you can to get it. OP needs to get some real clinical experiences (if he hasn't already) to really see if medicine is really right for him/her. It seems like he/she is interested in medicine because of one personal experience.

 

[NarutoMD]

This is a good idea, but I think I already missed the deadline for this years programs. So I'll have to wait at least another 2 years to start med school.



It is my passion. I also don't want to be 40 when I finally get my first mortgage, married, and have kids, I think it's also reasonable to be concerned about that at my age.

I understand everything you said but you need to be realistic. Why don't you take classes at CC to bring up your GPA. It is the cheaper route and you will have something to show in regards to your improved academic performance. You might even qualify for tuition assistance if you are low-income.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is a good idea, but I think I already missed the deadline for this years programs. So I'll have to wait at least another 2 years to start med school.



It is my passion. I also don't want to be 40 when I finally get my first mortgage, married, and have kids, I think it's also reasonable to be concerned about that at my age.

Trust me, it's not. I won't graduate med school until I'm 39. There's no reason you have to wait to get married until after med school. Kids might be different depending on your gender, but still doable.

There are no shortcuts here if this is serious. You're only 27. You have a terrible GPA. A masters will not raise your undergrad GPA anyway, so postbac work will have to be done. It will take you a while to get your GPA up to a reasonable level, so don't be surprised if you have to retake the MCAT.

 

[En3rgy]

Thanks, I don't have time to do that. I'm almost 27.

Your only option if you want to attend a U.S. MD/DO school, is to take post-bac classes and earn straight A's. You will most likely need to pursue an SMP as well.

If your low GPA trend lasted over ~7 years, then it is not unreasonable for medical schools to demand 2-3+ years of consistent academic progress, in order to qualify for interview(s).

 

[UsernameFree]

Medicine takes passion and commitment. The OP seems to not have that based on his responses. I am around his age and if I need another 2 or 3 years to get into medical school, I will still do it because medicine is my passion. If you really want something, you will do everything you can to get it. OP needs to get some real clinical experiences (if he hasn't already) to really see if medicine is really right for him/her. It seems like he/she is interested in medicine because of one personal experience.

My reasons are my business. Your point being that I because I want to start a family by a reasonable age, I'm not passionate about medicine. Those are two mutually exclusive things.

Trust me, it's not. I won't graduate med school until I'm 39. There's no reason you have to wait to get married until after med school. Kids might be different depending on your gender, but still doable.

Congrats. I'm not you.

Your only option if you want to attend a U.S. MD/DO school, is to take post-bac classes and earn straight A's. You will most likely need to pursue an SMP as well.

If your low GPA trend lasted over ~7 years, then it is not unreasonable for medical schools to demand 2-3+ years of consistent academic progress, in order to qualify for interview(s).

What if I don't want to attend a US MD/DO school?

 

[Govols22]

This is a good idea, but I think I already missed the deadline for this years programs. So I'll have to wait at least another 2 years to start med school.



It is my passion. I also don't want to be 40 when I finally get my first mortgage, married, and have kids, I think it's also reasonable to be concerned about that at my age.

I understand that you are on the older side and don't want to delay your career, but if you want to truly become a doctor, then you are going to need to delay your gratification and improve your application. It's simply something you have to do if you want to go to medical school in the states.

The harsh reality is that medical school isn't realistic for you at this moment in time. You will need to improve your application.

You have two choices.

1) Take a few extra years to improve your application and follow your passion.
2) Not pursue medicine.

 

[En3rgy]

What if I don't want to attend a US MD/DO school?

The UK and Canadian schools won't consider you because of the low GPA.

Australia and Ireland are poor choices, in my opinion.

Your only option is the Caribbean - It will be the fastest and also most dangerous path. It's a risky decision though, because you could potentially either fail out or never acquire a residency.

 

[DokterMom]

If I were reviewing your application package, I would see a person who's very bright, but unreliable and most likely either extraordinarily lazy or can't get his/her act together.

You have to demonstrate that the 'very bright' part is true, but that the 'lazy flake' part isn't. And that will take time and sustained effort.

At least two years.

Seriously.

No short cuts allowed. Because taking short-cuts is what I'd expect you to try to do. You need to show me that's not who you are anymore.

If two years of repair work plus an extra year for the application cycle itself sounds like too much trouble, then find another path. An MD is not in your future.

 

[DokterMom]

My reasons are my business. Your point being that I because I want to start a family by a reasonable age, I'm not passionate about medicine. Those are two mutually exclusive things.

There are women who have babies right before or during medical school and residency. Tho only one implying it's not possible is you. It's challenging. But passionate, highly-motivated people manage to do it.

What if I don't want to attend a US MD/DO school?

In that case, you seem to be in luck

 

[Lawpy]

People are going to flame me for this, but if you're really motivated and are willing to take a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE risk, you could always try the Caribbean? There's no guarantee you'll match in the US, but it's probably your best bet if you are unwilling to do a post-bac

Nah I would recommend a career change over Caribbean.

 

[mydogmolly]

Not to be harsh, but a 2.0 is a 2.0. A lot of people didn't care about school (myself included) and still do way better than that. You've made your bed and now you have to sleep in it. There really isn't a shortcut aside from Caribbean, which I think is a more risky option than maybe, "waiting until you're 40 to get your first mortgage."

You're going to seriously need 2-3 years of grade repair to get >3.0 cGPA + acing a SMP, then re-acing the MCAT. Again, it's either that, Caribbean, or pick a different career. All that being said, I'm rooting for you. The 520 clearly shows you have the chops, just put the work in and be patient.

 

[UsernameFree]

I understand that you are on the older side and don't want to delay your career, but if you want to truly become a doctor, then you are going to need to delay your gratification and improve your application. It's simply something you have to do if you want to go to medical school in the states.

The harsh reality is that medical school isn't realistic for you at this moment in time. You will need to improve your application.

You have two choices.

1) Take a few extra years to improve your application and follow your passion.
2) Not pursue medicine.

The harsh reality is that a great MCAT score doesn't even matter. It's really all about GPA. Which is bull****.

1) Nope.
2) Nope.

Thanks.

If I were reviewing your application package, I would see a person who's very bright, but unreliable and most likely either extraordinarily lazy or can't get his/her act together.

You have to demonstrate that the 'very bright' part is true, but that the 'lazy flake' part isn't. And that will take time and sustained effort.

At least two years.

Seriously.

No short cuts allowed. Because taking short-cuts is what I'd expect you to try to do. You need to show me that's not who you are anymore.

If two years of repair work plus an extra year for the application cycle itself sounds like too much trouble, then find another path. An MD is not in your future.

Yes. All people with a 2.0 GPA are just immensely lazy worthless human beings. Never mind the fact that I've been working full time in the biotech industry doing research and also managed to score an above average MCAT. That doesn't matter. I'm still "lazy" because I didn't get an A in biochemistry. What a joke.

There are women who have babies right before or during medical school and residency. Tho only one implying it's not possible is you. It's challenging. But passionate, highly-motivated people manage to do it.

That's a great way to raise a kid. Be a broke student living off student loans and/or be making a school teacher's salary while working more than twice the hours. Man is that child lucky to have those parents who can't even provide for them.

Not to be harsh, but a 2.0 is a 2.0. A lot of people didn't care about school (myself included) and still do way better than that. You've made your bed and now you have to sleep in it. There really isn't a shortcut aside from Caribbean, which I think is a more risky option than maybe, "waiting until you're 40 to get your first mortgage."

You're going to seriously need 2-3 years of grade repair to get >3.0 cGPA + acing a SMP, then re-acing the MCAT. Again, it's either that, Caribbean, or pick a different career. All that being said, I'm rooting for you. The 520 clearly shows you have the chops, just put the work in and be patient.

I did put the work in. By getting a 520 on the MCAT.

 

[Toutie]

:troll:

 

[Saifa]

I also don't want to be 40 when I finally get my first mortgage, married, and have kids, I think it's also reasonable to be concerned about that at my age.

^^^Overrated

Really though, the suggestions already made are basically your only options if you want to attend a quality school (almost any in the US) with hopes of attaining a reputable residency in the US. A high MCAT is great, but a 2.0 across that many credits is not indicative of behavior that will benefit patients.

I'm still "lazy" because I didn't get an A in biochemistry.

It was clearly a lot more than that dude.

 

[UsernameFree]

^^^Overrated

Really though, the suggestions already made are basically your only options if you want to attend a quality school (almost any in the US) with hopes of attaining a reputable residency in the US. A high MCAT is great, but a 2.0 across that many credits is not indicative of behavior that will benefit patients.

Yes your right. Clearly people are not capable of change. I am obviously the same person I was in college, despite my work experience and MCAT score. Thanks for clearing that up.

And your right, marriage, kids, and having a house is indeed overrated. I actually don't want kids and I want to remain alone for the rest of my life and die in a cardboard box. Thanks for opening my eyes up to the possibilities.

 

[mydogmolly]

We tried, everyone. We tried.

 

[Govols22]

Yup, just gotta leave the troll alone.

 

[Toutie]

Yes your right. Clearly people are not capable of change. I am obviously the same person I was in college, despite my work experience and MCAT score. Thanks for clearing that up.

And your right, marriage, kids, and having a house is indeed overrated. I actually don't want kids and I want to remain alone for the rest of my life and die in a cardboard box. Thanks for opening my eyes up to the possibilities.

Clearly you ARE the same person you were when you were receiving failing grades, because you still don't know the difference between your and you're.

 

[UsernameFree]

Clearly you ARE the same person you were when you were receiving failing grades, because you still don't know the difference between your and you're.

And that's definitely something that most patients care about. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Saifa]

And that's definitely something that most patients care about. Thanks for clearing that up.

How about if you tactlessly equate their desire to not have children (or maybe infertility) with being destined to "die alone in a box?"

 

[Toutie]

And that's definitely something that most patients care about. Thanks for clearing that up.

Look, in your first post you said "Not sure what to do. What do I do?"

People answered you. You don't want to hear what they told you you have to do.

Your posts are getting increasingly ridiculous. So here's my advice...apply to Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, Penn, and Chicago this week. With your stats you should be able to score at least 2 acceptances from those 5 schools. Enjoy! Nice chatting with you.

 

[NarutoMD]

I did put the work in. By getting a 520 on the MCAT.

If there is any consolation, you can try applying to Princeton Medical School. They would love to have you on board with that 520 MCAT.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My reasons are my business. Your point being that I because I want to start a family by a reasonable age, I'm not passionate about medicine. Those are two mutually exclusive things.




Congrats. I'm not you.



What if I don't want to attend a US MD/DO school?

You came on this forum asking for advice and then are not receptive to anything you didn't already want to hear. Par for the course unfortunately. Everyone wants a short cut and to not have to compromise. Good luck to you.

 

[Soccer171983]

all i can say after reading this is.... people really suffer. I mean truly suffer. Medicine is not convenient. It waits for no one and there are no handouts. You have to be willing to compromise somewhere or you will not get in. If you are not willing to get your gpa up or go through a post bacc year to prove yourself self (unfortunately one reasonable mcat score does not merit automatic admission). You have to be honest with yourself first. People here on this forum are not out to smash your dreams. That was done with a 2.0. You want medicine??? earn it! get your gpa up or show your willing to work hard so that people will over look your past flaws. I rarely get super personal on here but I was questioned why i turned down medical school when i got invited second time around (after i finished my short professional athletic career) and people still questioned my desire to be a doctor even though my undergrad was from a top 50 uni with decent gpa ( 3.7 ish-3.8 if i recall) and a 30+ mcat. I busted my tail through med school while being sick for about 3 months (switched between lecture based and independent study based after having to deal with my own personal bout with cancer) and residency (did a residency apart from ex wife and decision for divorce was made 20 minutes after my IM boards was complete). IM not bragging or asking pity as many people have had it wayyyyyyyy rougher than I could even fathom ...but i am pointing out that it sucks sometimes to go through the processes and inconveniences. When I hear someone not accepting of the fact that its gonna be an inconvenience/difficult pathway through medicine and they are not willing to bust their tails.....it bugs me. I genuinley wanted to be a physician from the age of 7 and I made sure to prepare for it as best as I could. I would do and have done anything to get through it. more than 250k in debt later I am glad I had the tenacity. I just want you to think about this when you refute every offer suggested by members of SDN who are telling you truthfully you do not stand a chance unless you show that you understand you didnt do well in undergrad, are willing to bust your tail to get better at all costs (post bacc/grad school), don't care how much its gonna hinder your life goals to be a doctor. No one and I mean no one in any medical school will give you a chance if you do not change your thought process and actions that show you want this more than anything else. I wouldnt want my family member being treated by someone that does have the utmost desire to by a physician, which does not just mean having a DO or MD. One of my coaches told me something that I will never forget when I asked why we did not attempt to recruit a stellar athlete to our program"Id rather have someone with desire and a work ethic over skill and brilliance any day of the week". Stop mentioning your MCAT, if you try to rest on your MCAT score you will see what most medical schools with think of that by their action (if they interview) or lack of action (not send you secondaries). I hope you take this to heart and realize that I, like most everyone else on here, wanted to give you some honest advice. Many people on here are in academic medicine and are involved in this process. Guys like @Goro would be first to tell you that your app needs some work. Its your choice how your going to take this. I wish you the best in your future endeavors and hope that you find something you love doing and can't live without.

 

[Potentia Virtus]

.

 

[UsernameFree]

all i can say after reading this is.... people really suffer. I mean truly suffer. Medicine is not convenient. It waits for no one and there are no handouts. You have to be willing to compromise somewhere or you will not get in. If you are not willing to get your gpa up or go through a post bacc year to prove yourself self (unfortunately one reasonable mcat score does not merit automatic admission). You have to be honest with yourself first. People here on this forum are not out to smash your dreams. That was done with a 2.0. You want medicine??? earn it! get your gpa up or show your willing to work hard so that people will over look your past flaws. I rarely get super personal on here but I was questioned why i turned down medical school when i got invited second time around (after i finished my short professional athletic career) and people still questioned my desire to be a doctor even though my undergrad was from a top 50 uni with decent gpa ( 3.7 ish-3.8 if i recall) and a 30+ mcat. I busted my tail through med school while being sick for about 3 months (switched between lecture based and independent study based after having to deal with my own personal bout with cancer) and residency (did a residency apart from ex wife and decision for divorce was made 20 minutes after my IM boards was complete). IM not bragging or asking pity as many people have had it wayyyyyyyy rougher than I could even fathom ...but i am pointing out that it sucks sometimes to go through the processes and inconveniences. When I hear someone not accepting of the fact that its gonna be an inconvenience/difficult pathway through medicine and they are not willing to bust their tails.....it bugs me. I genuinley wanted to be a physician from the age of 7 and I made sure to prepare for it as best as I could. I would do and have done anything to get through it. more than 250k in debt later I am glad I had the tenacity. I just want you to think about this when you refute every offer suggested by members of SDN who are telling you truthfully you do not stand a chance unless you show that you understand you didnt do well in undergrad, are willing to bust your tail to get better at all costs (post bacc/grad school), don't care how much its gonna hinder your life goals to be a doctor. No one and I mean no one in any medical school will give you a chance if you do not change your thought process and actions that show you want this more than anything else. I wouldnt want my family member being treated by someone that does have the utmost desire to by a physician, which does not just mean having a DO or MD. One of my coaches told me something that I will never forget when I asked why we did not attempt to recruit a stellar athlete to our program"Id rather have someone with desire and a work ethic over skill and brilliance any day of the week". Stop mentioning your MCAT, if you try to rest on your MCAT score you will see what most medical schools with think of that by their action (if they interview) or lack of action (not send you secondaries). I hope you take this to heart and realize that I, like most everyone else on here, wanted to give you some honest advice. Many people on here are in academic medicine and are involved in this process. Guys like @Goro would be first to tell you that your app needs some work. Its your choice how your going to take this. I wish you the best in your future endeavors and hope that you find something you love doing and can't live without.

Thanks for your story. I have found that something. It's called being a physician. Your story is amazing, and I truly admire everything you've gone through. I guess it's just hard for me to accept that I'm a failure. But I guess that anyone who gets a 2.0 in undergrad is a failure by definition. So I just have to make peace with that. Not sure how to. But I do.

As for wanting kids, maybe its best if I don't. Why perpetuate failure?

You are very wise and I'm not being sarcastic. I just have a few more questions. Yes, you have indeed sacrificed much. If I choose to do this the right way then I will too. But what about the 23 and 24 years old M1s who will be attendings by their early 30s. What did they sacrifice exactly? Probably didn't party as much in college, although I'm sure many have partied just as much. They don't have to live in the real world till their late 20s which awesome. Because the real world is a ****ty and lonely place. They will still have their prime years of life making good money.

Look, I'm not saying that they don't deserve it. They do. They worked for it early on and I didn't. How do I make peace with the fact that I have to sacrifice so much more than they do?

Thanks. You really helped.

 

[Soccer171983]

Thanks for your story. I have found that something. It's called being a physician. Your story is amazing, and I truly admire everything you've gone through. I guess it's just hard for me to accept that I'm a failure. But I guess that anyone who gets a 2.0 in undergrad is a failure by definition. So I just have to make peace with that. Not sure how to. But I do.

As for wanting kids, maybe its best if I don't. Why perpetuate failure?

You are very wise and I'm not being sarcastic. I just have a few more questions. Yes, you have indeed sacrificed much. If I choose to do this the right way then I will too. But what about the 23 and 24 years old M1s who will be attendings by their early 30s. What did they sacrifice exactly? Probably didn't party as much in college, although I'm sure many have partied just as much. They don't have to live in the real world till their late 20s which awesome. Because the real world is a ****ty and lonely place. They will still have their prime years of life making good money.

Look, I'm not saying that they don't deserve it. They do. They worked for it early on and I didn't. How do I make peace with the fact that I have to sacrifice so much more than they do?

Thanks. You really helped.

Unfortunately life is not an even playing field and thats why some sacrifice more than others. By definition a 2.0 is not a failure. You said it your self, you just didnt care at that time. You found yourself through your father having a stroke but are you sure you want to be a physician? Is is the drive to help people? You probably didnt like sciences much back in college i presume with the gpa issues but you like it now? I am just asking to figure things out a bit more. 1 year of post bacc is not a big deal, I know several people who went that route and did exceptionally well afterwords. You know that saying about "showing your stripes", well you didnt do that in college but your efforts with the mcat show that something changed I believe. Now it will be comparing gpa that is discordant with mcat (taken once correct?). It doesnt make sense because your obviously able to learn and take tests... which would probably mean you could do well in school right? That being said it looks like you just slacked off in college putting things together and now you have to prove your "for real" now. Your mcat score is good and you should be proud of it but dont hang your hat on it. Rebuild yourself by applying to post bac programs because it shows you know you need to fix things, you want to fix things, and are willing to fix things. Post bac does many of the same things first year med students do but in less detail and to a slower pace (sometimes same detail but a bit slower). It will help you focus your academics, prove that you want to be a physician and are going to work hard, and if you can repeat your performance with mcat essentially you have a good shot. People that come out of post bacc in some ways have an advantage since they have seen a lot of the stuff before. Its a way to help reduce failure rates for a lot of medical schools as well. Taking people who fail make med school numbers look worse than they would like.

When you apply and write letters, be sincere. Point out your strengths and weaknesses, things you learned and plans to improve as a person and physician to be. Sincerity can be seen and hopefully you get lucky and get a shot. Maybe one day you can give some advice and help others in a similar situation. Best wishes. I know lecom for example has post bac program and many of the people that started in it were gpas of high 2 to lower 3ish with mcats lower to middle 20's. You stand a chance and have a shot.......if your willing to work for it.

With regard to the mid 20's who have gotten in and live the good life etc.... I say congrats to them. I don't compare myself to others because at the end of the day its just knowing your are doing the best your can. The comment about the money.... I honestly don't care too much about it because if you are good at what you do you will make enough to be fine in life.

 

[NarutoMD]

Yes, you have indeed sacrificed much. If I choose to do this the right way then I will too. But what about the 23 and 24 years old M1s who will be attendings by their early 30s. What did they sacrifice exactly? Probably didn't party as much in college, although I'm sure many have partied just as much. They don't have to live in the real world till their late 20s which awesome. Because the real world is a ****ty and lonely place. They will still have their prime years of life making good money.

Look, I'm not saying that they don't deserve it. They do. They worked for it early on and I didn't. How do I make peace with the fact that I have to sacrifice so much more than they do?

Thanks. You really helped.

This really ticks me off in the wrong way. No offense, but you do come across a bit entitled. How do you know the young M1s did not sacrifice as much as you did? The truth is, you don't know. You can't just make the assumption on the fact that since they are younger, they must have not sacrificed as much as you have. And even if you have sacrificed more, you are not entitled to anything. You need to earn it. Just face the fact that you have made the wrong choices in the past, own them, and try to change. You seem like a smart guy but really, you do come across a bit narrow-minded and immature. I am sorry if I have offended you but that is how I see it from your posts.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

But what about the 23 and 24 years old M1s who will be attendings by their early 30s. What did they sacrifice exactly?

We tend to think other people have had it easy because we are more likely to see the bright things in their lives. The truth is they probably didn't have it easy. If you haven't undergone the stress of consistently getting As taking 20 credits while doing research 15 hours a week, volunteering, tutoring, working, and serving as an officer in 3 student orgs, you cannot say that they did not sacrifice anything. And the fact that they managed those things at a younger age means they were cut for med school at 23 or 24. Now, you cannot go back and re-do your early twenties. On the other hand, if you make it to med school from here, that would be a very impressive come back story, and you will NOT be below younger M1s by any means. Don't get distracted by other people or dwell on the past, because you cannot change neither of those. If medicine is truly your passion, go pursue it by whatever means necessary. Best of luck to you.

 

[En3rgy]

You had your chance during your first round of undergrad, and you blew it. But, that doesn't mean all hope is lost. It just means it will take more time and effort to get to where you want to be. You must play the hand in front of you, not the hand you wish you had. The only way to overcome your past is to work harder than you could have ever imagined in the present. You either put in the work and time required for success or you give up and pursue other options. Daydreaming about the past and complaining about your circumstances won't really get you anywhere.

 

[UsernameFree]

With regard to the mid 20's who have gotten in and live the good life etc.... I say congrats to them. I don't compare myself to others because at the end of the day its just knowing your are doing the best your can. The comment about the money.... I honestly don't care too much about it because if you are good at what you do you will make enough to be fine in life.

Even though you are doing the best you can, wouldn't you agree that they are better since they are younger than you and doing exactly the same thing you are? Again, I'm not mocking you. Just wondering.

You seem like a smart guy

I'm not. I have a 2.0 GPA. Now it seems that you are mocking me.

The truth is they probably didn't have it easy. If you haven't undergone the stress of consistently getting As taking 20 credits while doing research 15 hours a week, volunteering, tutoring, working, and serving as an officer in 3 student orgs, you cannot say that they did not sacrifice anything. And the fact that they managed those things at a younger age means they were cut for med school at 23 or 24.

I never said that they didn't deserve it. Obviously they do. That wasn't my point.

Now, you cannot go back and re-do your early twenties. On the other hand, if you make it to med school from here, that would be a very impressive come back story, and you will NOT be below younger M1s by any means.

My point being: How am I not below them exactly? I have a bachelors degree in biology. A degree that doesn't get you many high earning jobs. Instead of having a decent life where I can travel, and explore the world, I live paycheck to paycheck barely getting by while having to spend my hard earned money on retaking classes that I should have aced the first time I took it. I will be exactly where they are but in a much poorer financial position because of the lost opportunity cost. That is absolutely below them. In every sense of the word.

 

[Soccer171983]

Even though you are doing the best you can, wouldn't you agree that they are better since they are younger than you and doing exactly the same thing you are? Again, I'm not mocking you. Just wondering.




I'm not. I have a 2.0 GPA. Now it seems that you are mocking me.



I never said that they didn't deserve it. Obviously they do. That wasn't my point.



My point being: How am I not below them exactly? I have a bachelors degree in biology. A degree that doesn't get you many high earning jobs. Instead of having a decent life where I can travel, and explore the world, I live paycheck to paycheck barely getting by while having to spend my hard earned money on retaking classes that I should have aced the first time I took it. I will be exactly where they are but in a much poorer financial position because of the lost opportunity cost. That is absolutely below them. In every sense of the word.

Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. I dont particularly care to judge myself versus them. I don't need to judge anyone other than judge myself and judge myself in my own light. If you are always looking as the grass is greener on the other side you will never be happy and can possibly ruin good things. I pretty much was on pace with them but even if i was in my 40's and just finishing I would still be happy and feel accomplished doing what I set out to do and doing what I loved. Half glass empy half full argument .

 

[Lifeblood_20]

Even though you are doing the best you can, wouldn't you agree that they are better since they are younger than you and doing exactly the same thing you are? Again, I'm not mocking you. Just wondering.




I'm not. I have a 2.0 GPA. Now it seems that you are mocking me.



I never said that they didn't deserve it. Obviously they do. That wasn't my point.



My point being: How am I not below them exactly? I have a bachelors degree in biology. A degree that doesn't get you many high earning jobs. Instead of having a decent life where I can travel, and explore the world, I live paycheck to paycheck barely getting by while having to spend my hard earned money on retaking classes that I should have aced the first time I took it. I will be exactly where they are but in a much poorer financial position because of the lost opportunity cost. That is absolutely below them. In every sense of the word.

By not below them I mean in the sense that as medical students, your starting point as a doc will be just as legit as theirs, if you are willing to work hard from now on to earn it by doing grade repair. If you stay where you are and do nothing of course you are entirely below them as an aspiring doctor.
Yes, you absolutely have a point. They appear much "better" than you. But even if so why would it matter? Life is not fair and will never be. Heck, someone is ALWAYS gonna be "better" than you, no matter who you are. You made a mistake when you were younger. Doesn't mean you can't try to fix it now. Drop that attitude and own up to your mistake. Compete with yourself, never others. If you manage to outcompete the person you were as an undergrad by getting better grades, that is personal growth and what matters.
We are just internet strangers trying to help. It is up to you what you think or decide to do. But the point is that it DOES NOT MATTER who is above you or better than you. YOU want to be a doctor. So YOU do everything you can to become one.

 

[bears1992]

I'm pretty sure this is a troll post or ATLEAST a hypothetical "can the MCAT save me from a poor undergrad" post. If what you are saying is true, then you would be one of the very few who might be better off going Caribbean. At a 2.0 with over 120 credits, it will take more than 4 years of undergrad work to get you at a 3.0 which is what you will need to get passed the majority of the screens, and that's just for DO schools. Just FYI, everyone is giving you solid advice telling you not to apply with a 2.0. See the link below as to why you have less than a 3% chance to get in with your stats.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

Also, to think that you just walked into the MCAT, scored a 520 and then heard from others that it was a decent score is just BS. Get your grades up and figure out if Caribbean is worth the risk.

 

[UsernameFree]

By not below them I mean in the sense that as medical students, your starting point as a doc will be just as legit as theirs, if you are willing to work hard from now on to earn it by doing grade repair. If you stay where you are and do nothing of course you are entirely below them as an aspiring doctor.
Yes, you absolutely have a point. They appear much "better" than you. But even if so why would it matter? Life is not fair and will never be. Heck, someone is ALWAYS gonna be "better" than you, no matter who you are. You made a mistake when you were younger. Doesn't mean you can't try to fix it now. Drop that attitude and own up to your mistake. Compete with yourself, never others. If you manage to outcompete the person you were as an undergrad by getting better grades, that is personal growth and what matters.
We are just internet strangers trying to help. It is up to you what you think or decide to do. But the point is that it DOES NOT MATTER who is above you or better than you. YOU want to be a doctor. So YOU do everything you can to become one.

It looks like I won't be in med school before 30. Which really ****ing sucks. I won't be as "legit" as some 23 year old kid. They will be attendings by my age, and I won't be able to start a family, get married or afford a house, things that most successful normal people do in their 30s, till I'm 40, which is just pathetic. I can only blame myself for being such a failure when I was young.

Our starting points will never be the same. They still have their prime years left in life. Mine will be gone. This whole "compete with yourself" sounds good on paper. Doesn't work in the real world. The real world doesn't give a flying **** about you or how you've improved yourself. People don't care. They don't see that. They just see some struggling 30 year old chump living off student loans at an age where he should be making 6 figures like everyone else.

Oh well. Caribbean it is. It's super risky, I know. At this point it's the only option left for me that doesn't put my entire life on hold till I'm 40.

 

[UsernameFree]

Even if i was in my 40's and just finishing I would still be happy and feel accomplished doing what I set out to do and doing what I loved. Half glass empty half full argument .

That's easy for you to say when your 23. It's a entirely different perspective when your actually in that position.

 

[bears1992]

:troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll:

 

[NarutoMD]

. They just see some struggling 30 year old chump living off student loans at an age where he should be making 6 figures like everyone else.

Oh well. Caribbean it is. It's super risky, I know. At this point it's the only option left for me that doesn't put my entire life on hold till I'm 40.

You have proven my points. I would suggest you take some time to GROW UP. You said you have "real world" experiences but obviously you still haven't gotten a clue what the real world is. Stop living in fantasy and go out and make some real changes. I really admire those who have struggled but come back strong. Obviously, you are not one of them yet.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

:troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll:

Ah well. I figured I'd give it a try. What a waste of precious energy that my little mitochondria are working so hard to provide for me...

 

[Goro]

Thanks for your story. I have found that something. It's called being a physician. Your story is amazing, and I truly admire everything you've gone through. I guess it's just hard for me to accept that I'm a failure. But I guess that anyone who gets a 2.0 in undergrad is a failure by definition. So I just have to make peace with that. Not sure how to. But I do.

If you're trolling, you're very good. But I'll use this as a teaching moment since I have seen other SDNer have similar thoughts.
Concerning the bold, you appear to wrap up your self-esteem in your academics. This is extremely unhealthy. Your GPA doesn't define who you are as a person. It can keep you out of med school. Two very different things.

You are very wise and I'm not being sarcastic. I just have a few more questions. Yes, you have indeed sacrificed much. If I choose to do this the right way then I will too. But what about the 23 and 24 years old M1s who will be attendings by their early 30s. What did they sacrifice exactly? Probably didn't party as much in college, although I'm sure many have partied just as much. They don't have to live in the real world till their late 20s which awesome. Because the real world is a ****ty and lonely place. They will still have their prime years of life making good money.

Resentment toward the success of others isn't going to help you. Stop comparing yourself to them. The only one you should be comparing yourself to is yourself.

Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. I dont particularly care to judge myself versus them. I don't need to judge anyone other than judge myself and judge myself in my own light. If you are always looking as the grass is greener on the other side you will never be happy and can possibly ruin good things. I pretty much was on pace with them but even if i was in my 40's and just finishing I would still be happy and feel accomplished doing what I set out to do and doing what I loved. Half glass empy half full argument .

Follow your own advice.

It looks like I won't be in med school before 30. Which really ****ing sucks. I won't be as "legit" as some 23 year old kid. They will be attendings by my age, and I won't be able to start a family, get married or afford a house, things that most successful normal people do in their 30s, till I'm 40, which is just pathetic. I can only blame myself for being such a failure when I was young.

There are MD schools (and all DO) that reward reinvention. Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. I graduated a stellar one at 50 two years ago, and she's a PGY2 (maybe PGY3 now) in Southern CA.

Our starting points will never be the same. They still have their prime years left in life. Mine will be gone. This whole "compete with yourself" sounds good on paper. Doesn't work in the real world. The real world doesn't give a flying **** about you or how you've improved yourself. People don't care. They don't see that. They just see some struggling 30 year old chump living off student loans at an age where he should be making 6 figures like everyone else.

But, as mentioned above, there are med schools that do. So again, stop making this about your mistakes. That was then and this is now. You aren't a bad person because you were a bad student.

I've had plenty of students who had kids in med school. I knew several who had TWO in med school.


Oh well. Caribbean it is. It's super risky, I know. At this point it's the only option left for me that doesn't put my entire life on hold till I'm 40.

But the predatory Carib schools grow fat and rich over people with an inability to delay gratification, and the window is closing for their grads who make it through their threshers. You've been warned.