Very important questions for future medical students

[NJCU05]

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Guys,
I am already accepted into a medical school for the 2010 class. I am trying to understand few things:

1. What are the differences among residency, fellowship, internship, graduate program, and postgraduate program?

2. Does the medical school's name and resources affect your options of residency (i.e. can you become a neurosurgeon after being graduated from a school that does not have any affiliation with any teaching hospital in neurosurgery?)?

3. What are the factors determining my residency after my medical education?

4. Would DO or MD titles enforce the medical graduate to or against some certain residencies?

5. If I am a student in a medical school that offers a postgraduate program in neurosurgery, how easily could I get into the program compared to other applicants who graduated from some other medical schools? Would my school consider my application to that postgraduate program equally like any other residency matching program applicants

Please, answer these questions in details and separately.

Thanks in advance for your greatly appreciated help.

 

[monkey7247]

Start here.

After that, come back with more questions. 👍

 

[TommyGunn04]

2. Does the medical school's name and resources affect your options of residency (i.e. can you become a neurosurgeon after being graduated from a school that does not have any affiliation with any teaching hospital in neurosurgery?)?

I'll take a shot at this one. In short, YES, your medical school's name affects your ability to land whatever residency spot you're interested in. That said, it's more important in some fields than others, and it's also only one part of the residency puzzle. Even a Harvard or Hopkins student will have trouble landing a very competitive residency spot if he/she has performed poorly in medical school and on the board exams, or has poor letters of recommendation or interviewing skills. So I always tell people to go to the most reputable school where they'd also be happy, because like it or not, the name on your diploma DOES make a difference. And the fact of the matter is that neurosurgery is one of the most competitive specialties out there. But you don't necessarily have to go to a school with a neurosurgery program in order to match somewhere in neurosurgery. However, you'd probably need to do a rotation in neurosurg, both to try it out and to get a letter of recommendation for your application. So it'd definitely make it easier if you went to a school that has a program. Still, it's a bit early to think about your field of specialty; you're just a likely to change your mind, so it might not be the best criterion to use for choosing a medical school. (I'm not sure if you're in the position of trying to figure out which school to attend, but based on the way you asked some of these questions I'm guessing this may be the motivation behind some of them.)

 

[TommyGunn04]

1. What are the differences among residency, fellowship, internship, graduate program, and postgraduate program?

"Residency" is often referred to as "graduate medical education." It's what you do after you graduate from medical school so that you can become "board-certified" in whatever field you choose to train in. There are many different types of residencies, including general surgery, obstetrics and gynecology, internal medicine, pediatrics, family medicine, anesthesia, psychiatry, etc.

"Internship" is just another word for your first year of residency. In some fields you're required to do a more general internship in a field like surgery or internal medicine before starting your residency in a subspecialty field like ophthalmology, dermatology, or radiology.

"Fellowship" is what you might choose to pursue after completing your internship and residency. Fellowship training allows you to do subspecialty training in a particular field within whatever general field you trained in for your residency. For example, someone who trained in internal medicine can choose from a number of fellowships, in fields such as cardiology, endocrinology, gastroenteriology, hematology/oncology, allergy/immunology, rheumatology, etc. Someone trained in general surgery might pursue fellowship training in cardiothoracic surgery, transplant surgery, vascular surgery, etc.

It's a bit complicated, but does that make sense? It's like learning a whole new language! You might want to google a website called FREIDA. It has a whole database of all the residency and fellowship programs in the country, and should give you a much better idea about the multitude of options for specialization in medicine today.

 

[Lara]

So I always tell people to go to the most reputable school where they'd also be happy, because like it or not, the name on your diploma DOES make a difference.

The one caveat being finances. You may change your mind and want to do peds (like me), and it's rarely worth being >150K in debt if you can avoid it.

 

[ExtraCrispy]

Congrats on your acceptance.

To save yourself a lot of stress, buy a copy of Iserson's Guide to Getting Into a Residency. It should answer a lot of your questions.

 

[Von Hohenheim]

Is it normal to be this concerned about residency mere seconds after being accepted to medschool? I just chose the place where I thought I'd be happiest and relaxed for my remaining monthes of freedom. I would have thought that's what everyone did. 😕

 

[pgg]

Is it normal to be this concerned about residency mere seconds after being accepted to medschool?

Normal? Heh. I think most new medical students barely have a clue that such a thing as a residency exists or is important.

I am already accepted into a medical school for the 2010 class. I am trying to understand few things:

The only things you need to understand at this point are:

• The competition doesn't end now that you're past the hurdle of getting into medical school. Your competitors just got smarter, and they want the same thing you do. Just show up on day 1 of medical school and work your ass off to get good grades. That's the only thing you can control at this stage.
• Communication is very important. It looks like English isn't your first language ... so while you're working your ass off to get good grades, do what you can to improve your English.

Don't worry about how DO vs MD and BigName school vs LittleName school will affect your residency application. The only thing you can control at this point in your career is ... you guessed it ... your grades. (And even then, your MS1-MS2 grades are arguably one of the least important pieces of a residency application.)

Congratulations on your acceptance. 🙂

 

[sophiejane]

Is it normal to be this concerned about residency mere seconds after being accepted to medschool? I just chose the place where I thought I'd be happiest and relaxed for my remaining monthes of freedom. I would have thought that's what everyone did. 😕

I think more people are concerned about residency early on than will admit, because they want to appear relaxed and carefree (which is something a lot of people seem to make a study of in medical school, even though they are stressing about everything just like everyone else).

I think it's very smart to think about it even before you matriculate. It's the coup de grace, the last hurdle, and it shapes your career more than any other decision you make along the way.

Good for you for thinking ahead and asking questions. Just make sure you get a broad sampling, and ask professionals in the field you are interested in, not just anonymous posters on the internet.

Best of luck!

 

[usnavdoc]

Normal? Don't worry about how DO vs MD and BigName school vs LittleName school will affect your residency application. The only thing you can control at this point in your career is ... you guessed it ... your grades. (And even then, your MS1-MS2 grades are arguably one of the least important pieces of a residency application.)

If you have one acceptance and think others may come then yes name of the school is something to consider. But being happy in whatever location is more important.

If you are serious about trying to get into something very competitive or research minded then you really need to be at an allopathic school.

 

[BKN]

Guys,
I am already accepted into a medical school for the 2010 class. I am trying to understand few things:

1. What are the differences among residency, fellowship, internship, graduate program, and postgraduate program?

2. Does the medical school's name and resources affect your options of residency (i.e. can you become a neurosurgeon after being graduated from a school that does not have any affiliation with any teaching hospital in neurosurgery?)?

3. What are the factors determining my residency after my medical education?

4. Would DO or MD titles enforce the medical graduate to or against some certain residencies?

5. If I am a student in a medical school that offers a postgraduate program in neurosurgery, how easily could I get into the program compared to other applicants who graduated from some other medical schools? Would my school consider my application to that postgraduate program equally like any other residency matching program applicants

Please, answer these questions in details and separately.

Thanks in advance for your greatly appreciated help.

I can't answer all of these questions in detail and separately. Most of them have to do with you, rather than your medical school. To help you figure out what you want to do and how to get it, I have some suggestions:

1. As extracrispy said buy Iserson's book and start reading it. It has valuable information for every level med student.

2. To start learning what the various specialties do, start hanging around the ED. It's not all of medicine, but it has parts of almost everything. You'll see most specialists and can figure out if the truisms about their personalities are valid (eg. surgeons cranky, internists cerebral and ineffectual, ED docs ruthless pragmatists, etc)

3. Get the best grades and MLEs that you can manage. Consider a prep course prior to MLE1 and CK.

4. Get some mentors. The basic science years can seem very detached from medicine. Find an MS3, a house officer and a couple of faculty who don't mind having you around. Follow them as they work. Ask them about their views on your questions.

5. Keep on reading SDN. I'm not sure that the SDNers are really typical of most MDs, but they sure are verbal (in writing).

Congratulations, you are about to embark on a journey that offers the best of life.

 

[Mumpu]

Um. Don't listen to all these people. The "work your butt off from day one" is a recipe for becoming a burnt out husk of a human being who posts "Never again" in the "Would you do it again?" thread. The difference between passing and honoring in preclinical years is often in how much minutia you memorize and that will NOT make you a better physician or even give you higher test scores.

If you stay on SDN, you need to be very aware that there is a disproportionally high number of severe gunners here (see the Interviews Offered thread in the IM forums, for example... I assure you not everyone in the world applies to Hopkins, Harvard, and UCSF) and that if you are not careful you will become biased and discouraged.

 

[ExtraCrispy]

Is it normal to be this concerned about residency mere seconds after being accepted to medschool? I just chose the place where I thought I'd be happiest and relaxed for my remaining monthes of freedom. I would have thought that's what everyone did. 😕

I think you've got the right approach. I encountered classmates in my first year who were already reading Iserson's and figuring out "what they had to do" to get the residency of their choice. It freaked me out, b/c I was just try to learn the darn material.

In the end, I don't think the worrying early on matters all that much. You won't have a solid idea of what specialty you want until you go through your rotations. Until then, the motto should just be to do your very best, learn the most you can, and get involved in projects that excite you. That'll build a good background, no matter what specialty you choose.

Many (most?) people who apply in uber-competitive specialties take a year off anyway to conduct research with Dr. Big Time, so there's really no rush & no reason to worry so early in the game.

I should say I'm biased, but my case also shows why you needn't worry - I was CONVINCED I would go into a particular field, and nothing could persuade me otherwise. I researched it, stacked up all my cards to apply, figured out what I had to do to get "in." Then, at the VERY END of third year, I changed my mind completely, and had to scramble to get letters and to learn about a residency that I'd never even considered, and in which I had no "connections." Despite the last minute whirlwind and my weird route, I've been fortunate enough to have interviews wherever I've applied. My point from this is that the real focus should be on learning the material and taking good care of your patients. All the rest will follow.

End of long-winded monologue - apologies to all those presently snoring. 😳

 

[NJCU05]

What are the factors influencing the acceptance into a residency program?

 

[Trisomy13]

What are the factors influencing the acceptance into a residency program?

Step 1 and Step 2 board scores

Letters of recommendation

Clinical grades

Research

Having a different skill set or interesting CV that makes you stand out

Name of your medical school (note that this is variable and can be completely useless if the rest of your application is particularly strong... or weak)

"Who you know". Let's face it, networking matters. Do those away rotations fourth year.

Your interview

The phase of the moon on match day

 

[NJCU05]

Step 1 and Step 2 board scores

Letters of recommendation

Clinical grades

Research

Having a different skill set or interesting CV that makes you stand out

Name of your medical school (note that this is variable and can be completely useless if the rest of your application is particularly strong... or weak)

"Who you know". Let's face it, networking matters. Do those away rotations fourth year.

Your interview

The phase of the moon on match day

What about the academic grades (first two years' grades)?
Should the research be very related to the speciality?
What type of research: clinical or academic?
Is really Board Exam Step 2's score relevant even though I may conduct the interview before it would appear?

Thanks Trisomy13 for your previous reply especially for the advice of going away for the forth year rotations.

 

[Trisomy13]

What about the academic grades (first two years' grades)?
Should the research be very related to the speciality?
What type of research: clinical or academic?
Is really Board Exam Step 2's score relevant even though I may conduct the interview before it would appear?

Thanks Trisomy13 for your previous reply especially for the advice of going away for the forth year rotations.

It always helps to have good grades the first two years, but I got mostly (practically all) "Pass" and still received invitations to some well-respected programs in a competitive field. No one factor will make or break you, within reason.

Research in general, I feel, need not be related to the specialty. Bonus if it is, but the point is to show that you have an academic leaning, and are capable of reading/writing/breathing research. It's a different animal than clinical skills.

Step 2 is relevant in some cases. My Step 1 was average, so I took Step 2 very early and made sure I improved significantly. A story about how you had personal problems before Step 1 sure looks more believable if you come back and rock Step 2.

The bottom line is that all the factors in the previous post are considered in the residency application. It's your job to sell your strengths and acknowledge/strengthen your weaknesses.


and with that, i'm off to the bar to kill some brain cells and pursue my weakness. if she's there.

 

[p53]

I can't answer all of these questions in detail and separately. Most of them have to do with you, rather than your medical school. To help you figure out what you want to do and how to get it, I have some suggestions:

1. As extracrispy said buy Iserson's book and start reading it. It has valuable information for every level med student.

2. To start learning what the various specialties do, start hanging around the ED. It's not all of medicine, but it has parts of almost everything. You'll see most specialists and can figure out if the truisms about their personalities are valid (eg. surgeons cranky, internists cerebral and ineffectual, ED docs ruthless pragmatists, etc)

3. Get the best grades and MLEs that you can manage. Consider a prep course prior to MLE1 and CK.

4. Get some mentors. The basic science years can seem very detached from medicine. Find an MS3, a house officer and a couple of faculty who don't mind having you around. Follow them as they work. Ask them about their views on your questions.

5. Keep on reading SDN. I'm not sure that the SDNers are really typical of most MDs, but they sure are verbal (in writing).

Congratulations, you are about to embark on a journey that offers the best of life.

Just out of curiosity.

What are the generalized "personality truisms" of dermatologists, radiologists, opthalamologists, ENT docs, and anesthesiologists?

 

[BKN]

Just out of curiosity.

What are the generalized "personality truisms" of dermatologists, radiologists, opthalamologists, ENT docs, and anesthesiologists?

Not goin' there, thanks. 😀

 

[p53]

Not goin' there, thanks. 😀

That's understandable.

Is there anyone else willing to show that they have balls? This is an anonymous forum. What are the perceived truisms of dermatologists, radiologists, ENT docs, ophthalmalogists, and anesthesiologists?

So far the generalized truisms we have are "surgeons cranky, internists cerebral and ineffectual, ED docs ruthless pragmatists."

 

[Mumpu]

Ah p53, you are going to start a flame war. Where's my asbestos suit?