Very Non-Traditional Situation, please advise

[galak]

Hi, I wanted to thank you in advance for reading this post.

I am seeking some advice. I am a 26 year old, who is planning on attending courses at a formal evening/weekend post-bacc. I work 40 hrs a week, and get every other friday off. Here is some info about myself below:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1996-2000 - High School - 2.5 GPA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2000-2003 - Worked for 2.5 years at a large corporation doing Database web application development:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2003-2006 - Community College-General Education + Econ lower divs: GPA : 3.78

The Bad: 2 D's (repeated with As), 7 Ws
The Good: rest of grades were all As with the exception of 3 Bs and 1 C.

The 5 of the Ws, 2 Ds, 1 of the Bs and the C were earlier on in my studying. I took those courses in 2000-2002. Before I took school seriously. I also was working full-time. Once I left work I got pretty much all As, with exception of 2 Bs and 2 Ws.

The Science/Math Courses I took:
1 preparatory physics course A
PreCalc 1: A
PreCalc 2: A
Calculus 1(derivatives): A
Calculus 2(integrals): B
Stats: B

Member of a Business Club for one year, then president
Member of a Honors Club for one year, then treasurer.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2006-2008 - UCLA - Economics: cGPA: 3.34 econGPA: 2.94
I received 5 - C/C+s grade. , one of which was in Econ-Stats: C+

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2008+ - working full-time for in a completely non-healthfield job.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I'm planning to start with 1 Bio course / 1 Lab. Take a leave of absence to take a summer intensive course in order to finish off a year of chemistry. Then begin taking either 2 Lectures/2 Labs in the Fall or a 2/1 combo.

I'm the primary breadwinner for my family which consists of: My uncle, Grandmother and Mother, all of which are old or suffering from some type of debilitating disease.

I'm looking for some volunteer work right now that will give me exposure to some clinical experience, such as meaningful ED work, or in a hospice, something that will give experience with patients. I am also looking for doctors to shadow.

I've pretty much read TONs of threads on SDN and have talked to several people who are in medicine or have gone through the post-bac process, so I have a good sense on what I need to do. Ex: When to get LORS, how long to study for the MCATS, read The New Yorker and The Economist, etc.

Here are some questions I have:

1) For the most part, I'm starting my BCPM grades from scratch, other than the classes I listed above. Will my econ major GPA / cGPA be competitive enough if I obtain a relatively high BCPM GPA?

2) Will my Pre-calc courses count in the BCPM GPA?

3) Since I am only taking 2 courses right now, I have a lot more time. How much should I volunteer? 4-8 hrs/week?

4) I've read here that people have pulled off 4.0 in post-bac while working 40 hrs. I want to be able to demonstrate sustained academic excellence while working full-time. Does that mean I should be taking 2 Lecs/2 Labs my Fall quarter (after my summer intensive)? Or is that too much? Maybe 2/1? (I know it maybe earlier to ask, and the answer also depends on how well I do this current semester with the Bio courses and in the summer intensive, but if I were to do actually do well in those courses)

5) Also, how much time should I devote to volunteering during those 2/2 and 2/1 semesters? Is 4 hrs/week enough?

6) Any other advice for now?

Thanks again!!!!

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[murfettie]

1. ucla is a monster. several of my friends are TAs in physics and chem deparment, and they are pretty ruthless. which is why i decided to do a formal postbac instead of taking chem 14A as a .. floating student.
2. can you really do 40 hr with 4.0? esp at ucla.
3. i know at ucla there is
care extenders, EMRA in particular for volunteering at the hospital.
summer classes at ucla is easier than regular academic year, which is why a lot of my friends really take advantage of the summer quarter. it's a bit easier to get classes than regular academic year as well.

Hi, I wanted to thank you in advance for reading this post.

I am seeking some advice. I am a 26 year old, who is planning on attending courses at a formal evening/weekend post-bacc. I work 40 hrs a week, and get every other friday off. Here is some info about myself below:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1996-2000 - High School - 2.5 GPA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2000-2003 - Worked for 2.5 years at a large corporation doing Database web application development:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2003-2006 - Community College-General Education + Econ lower divs: GPA : 3.78

The Bad: 2 D's (repeated with As), 7 Ws
The Good: rest of grades were all As with the exception of 3 Bs and 1 C.

The 5 of the Ws, 2 Ds, 1 of the Bs and the C were earlier on in my studying. I took those courses in 2000-2002. Before I took school seriously. I also was working full-time. Once I left work I got pretty much all As, with exception of 2 Bs and 2 Ws.

The Science/Math Courses I took:
1 preparatory physics course A
PreCalc 1: A
PreCalc 2: A
Calculus 1(derivatives): A
Calculus 2(integrals): B
Stats: B

Member of a Business Club for one year, then president
Member of a Treasury Club for one year, then treasurer.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2006-2008 - UCLA - Economics: cGPA: 3.34 econGPA: 2.94
I received 5 - C/C+s grade. , one of which was in Econ-Stats: C+

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2008+ - working full-time for in a completely non-healthfield job.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I'm planning to start with 1 Bio course / 1 Lab. Take a leave of absence to take a summer intensive course in order to finish off a year of chemistry. Then begin taking either 2 Lectures/2 Labs in the Fall or a 2/1 combo.

I'm the primary breadwinner for my family which consists of: My uncle, Grandmother and Mother, all of which are old or suffering from some type of debilitating disease.

I'm looking for some volunteer work right now that will give me exposure to some clinical experience, such as meaningful ED work, or in a hospice, something that will give experience with patients. I am also looking for doctors to shadow.

I've pretty much read TONs of threads on SDN and have talked to several people who are in medicine or have gone through the post-bac process, so I have a good sense on what I need to do. Ex: When to get LORS, how long to study for the MCATS, read The New Yorker and The Economist, etc.

Here are some questions I have:

1) For the most part, I'm starting my BCPM grades from scratch, other than the classes I listed above. Will my econ major GPA / cGPA be competitive enough if I obtain a relatively high BCPM GPA?

2) Will my Pre-calc courses count in the BCPM GPA?

3) Since I am only taking 2 courses right now, I have a lot more time. How much should I volunteer? 4-8 hrs/week?

4) I've read here that people have pulled off 4.0 in post-bac while working 40 hrs. I want to be able to demonstrate sustained academic excellence while working full-time. Does that mean I should be taking 2 Lecs/2 Labs my Fall quarter (after my summer intensive)? Or is that too much? Maybe 2/1? (I know it maybe earlier to ask, and the answer also depends on how well I do this current semester with the Bio courses and in the summer intensive, but if I were to do actually do well in those courses)

5) Also, how much time should I devote to volunteering during those 2/2 and 2/1 semesters? Is 4 hrs/week enough?

6) Any other advice for now?

Thanks again!!!!

 

[galak]

Hey murfettie,

Sorry, just to clarify. I'm planning to take courses at UC Berkeley extension.

 

[Nanon]

The post-bacc classes at Cal are a bitch, too. All of the pre-req classes are lab classes, and lab classes eat time for lunch, so one pre-req class can often take up as much time as two "normal" classes in any other major. Keep that in mind as you're planning out your schedule.

Also, you don't have as much time as you think you do, if you're working 40 hours a week and taking care of 3 adults. You have enough time to put in about 2 - 4 hours of volunteering a week while your working and going to school to guarantee knocking out A's, which you really need if you're going to do this correctly and have a good result. What counts in volunteering is picking something, sticking with it, and moving up into some kind of leadership position with it.

Every grade you made in undergrad is going to count, and every math class counts in you BCMP. Even my beginning algebra class counted. Sucks, no?

All physics at Cal is calc based, which is not a requirement for either medical school or the MCAT. If it's been a while since you took calc, or you're weak in math, you may want to take this at a community college. Lots of people will say that's a bad idea, but I think that protecting your GPA is paramount, and you'll have the rest at a major university. I'm just putting it out there as an option.

Take a little time out for yourself every week. I was a caretaker, too, when I was in school. This is a tough process - be kind to yourself.

 

[dragonfly99]

OP,
Your past academic record is quite checkered.
I suggest you defer the hospital volunteering for now, considering you are planning to keep working full time and you have these older relatives at home.
You need to take some science classes for a semester or two. After that, if you are able to do that and keep an A-/A average, then think about the medical volunteering. Don't put the cart before the horse - it sounds like you have several years of preparation still before you.

 

[galak]

Thanks for all your responses so far!!!

In terms of classes, I want to knock everything out by the end of next summer. Of course, I proceed with caution, as plans can easily be diverted with any unforeseen circumstance. In terms of the Physics needing Calculus, I'm pretty sure the Extension courses will not be engineering physics. But one geared toward pre-health students.

from their website:
"This course introduces the fundamental concepts of physics including forces, properties of matter, kinetics, thermodynamics, heat, wave motion, fluids, and sound. This class is designed for biology, pre-medical, pre-health, and architecture students. In addition, it is appropriate for returning students interested in physics and professionals in other disciplines considering a career change to the sciences. This course is associated with Physics Laboratory I (3.1A). The lecture may be taken without the laboratory.
Prerequisites: Algebra and trigonometry "


Here is my preliminary schedule to finish up by the end of next summer:

Spring 09
Bio 1 / Bio 1 Lab

Summer 09 - taking leave of absence
Chem 1 / Chem 1 Lab
Chem 2 / Chem 2 Lab

Fall 09
Phys 1 / Phys 1 Lab
Org Chem 1 / Org 1 Chem Lab

Spring 10
Phys 2 / Phys 2 Lab
Org Chem 2 / Org 2 Chem Lab

Summer 10 - quit job
Bio 2 / Bio 2 Lab
Then maybe a course in genetics/biochem etc

Sept - Dec
Study for MCAT full-time. take the test

Dec - Apr
Study for MCAT full-time if i didn't do well the first time

Apply in June


What do you guys think?

 

[punkiedad]

Thanks for all your responses so far!!!

In terms of classes, I want to knock everything out by the end of next summer. Of course, I proceed with caution, as plans can easily be diverted with any unforeseen circumstance. In terms of the Physics needing Calculus, I'm pretty sure the Extension courses will not be engineering physics. But one geared toward pre-health students.

from their website:
"This course introduces the fundamental concepts of physics including forces, properties of matter, kinetics, thermodynamics, heat, wave motion, fluids, and sound. This class is designed for biology, pre-medical, pre-health, and architecture students. In addition, it is appropriate for returning students interested in physics and professionals in other disciplines considering a career change to the sciences. This course is associated with Physics Laboratory I (3.1A). The lecture may be taken without the laboratory.
Prerequisites: Algebra and trigonometry "


Here is my preliminary schedule to finish up by the end of next summer:

Spring 09
Bio 1 / Bio 1 Lab

Summer 09 - taking leave of absence
Chem 1 / Chem 1 Lab
Chem 2 / Chem 2 Lab

Fall 09
Phys 1 / Phys 1 Lab
Org Chem 1 / Org 1 Chem Lab

Spring 10
Phys 2 / Phys 2 Lab
Org Chem 2 / Org 2 Chem Lab

Summer 10 - quit job
Bio 2 / Bio 2 Lab
Then maybe a course in genetics/biochem etc

Sept - Dec
Study for MCAT full-time. take the test

Dec - Apr
Study for MCAT full-time if i didn't do well the first time

Apply in June


What do you guys think?

I generally agree withthe other posters, as far as not taking on too much and steering away from volunteering right now. Grades need to be a priority along with your family, while keeping a paycheck.

So, I like the summer thing. I did it two summers and took vacation time....kinda sucked, but do what you have to do.

I would still thin out your schedule the second year. If you are taking physics and it has to be calc based, I would steer clear of taking it with OChem. From your earlier stats it seemed you are more experienced with the number / analytical side (?) If this is the case, this might be real tough. My guess is 40 hour work week, caregiving, physics and O Chem in same term, even if you could find the time to fit these in, study time would be very hard, and making an A in both.................well, I don't want to dampen hopes, but it would be tough. O Chem is the weed out class for many pre meds.

That being said, I think you could make up some time studying for the MCAT. I don't know that you need to do this full time for 3-4 months. But, I don't know how you specifically learn best.

You might want to take O Chem I at the same itme your are studying for the MCAT, and then take it right at the end in Dec. If you have to retake, then you can do it while taking O Chem II. This is exactly what I did.

I can't say it was O Chem II that helped me the second time around as was just being better prepared for the MCAT.
One last thing.....DO NOT QUIT YOUR JOB UNTIL YOU HAVE TO.....you need to be selfish about this one. every day you can keep coin coming in, the better off you will be long term. don't know what kind of job you have, but find some time to study duriong breaks or spare minutes. Especially with a class like O Chem, it is a lot of memorizing which can be done in short bursts.

Hope this helps. just my 2 cents....(If it helps any, I wanted to conquer the world in an even smaller timeframe than you do....in the end, better to be better preared WHEN you enter med school.) An extra year is no big deal...........Remember, when entering med school....don't FALL...........specifically, don't fall behind, or in love

 

[galak]

thank you PunkieDad, your post was very helpful.

Four questions though.

1) If I were to do the MCAT/Organic route, I won't have time to do any advanced courses, like genetics, physiology, biochem, etc. How important are these for a non-science major?

2) I had a secondary option. (other the MCAT/Organic plan you mentioned above).

I could thin out my schedule to take 3 courses for Fall/Spring, but then I would have to take a 9 week intensive Organic Chem course in the summer to knock this out. One of my friends who took the summer intensive did it for regular chem said it is definitely doable for regular chem. But he advised me to be careful about doing it for Organic. What do you suggest?

3) I though physics for med school does not have to be calc-based. Could someone clarify?

4) I don't mind taking 3 courses / working 40 hrs / doing 4 hrs of volunteer work/week. I think I can do it (we will see after my Fall semester.)
But the thing I worry about is: Is this enough to show sustained academic excellence? 3 courses amounts to roughly 7-8 semester units. 3 for the lectures, and 1-2 for the labs.

Thanks again.

 

[tkim]

You have a long but doable road ahead of you. I wish you luck. I do have one question though - if you are the primary breadwinner for three ill adults, what happens when you leave for med school? Who picks up the slack?

 

[gman33]

If you are working full-time, I would not recommend taking more than 1 science class with a lab each semester. Do this for 2 semesters and if at that time you made 2 A's with no problem, then think about increasing the work load. Trying to rush all this in one year and prepping for the MCAT is not a good plan. Take 2 years and do it right.

You need to do very well in all of these classes to have any type of competitive application. Many applicants underestimate the work load in the basic prereqs. They take a ton of time. As a postbacc student you have very little margin for error. One bad semester with 2 C's can basically close the door to getting into med school (or at least delay it for years).

I'm not trying to be negative, I just always recommend a more conservative plan.

 

[galak]

thanks gman33 and tkim for your comments and suggestions.

In terms of who picks up slack, I guess it's best to clarify my situation.
My grandma is 85, she is old and still does a lot around the house such as cooking all the meals. My aunt comes 3 days a week to help her out.
My uncle is 65 and found out he had a malignant tumor in the brain. But he refuses to have an operation, this will only get worse. My mom is 55 and has had schizhophernia all of my 26 year old life; she doesn't work.

We collect Social security checks/disability checks but still own a lot on the mortgage. I think my aunts/brother contribute some money to the family.

I think because of this situation, I'll have to play it out by year(ear), literally. See what the next year brings and decide what to do then. It's definitely something that has been on my mind all the time.

Such as, what happens if i do go to med school? That's 4 years, +3 in residency + few more for specialization. But I have a few aunts and an older brother that I assume will help contribute to the family and pick up some of that slack. I guess that why I stated my case was very non-traditional.

But i'm sure most people have difficulities and challenges in their lives as well. This is just mine.

 

[ruraldr]

thank you PunkieDad, your post was very helpful.

Four questions though.

1) If I were to do the MCAT/Organic route, I won't have time to do any advanced courses, like genetics, physiology, biochem, etc. How important are these for a non-science major?

2) I had a secondary option. (other the MCAT/Organic plan you mentioned above).

I could thin out my schedule to take 3 courses for Fall/Spring, but then I would have to take a 9 week intensive Organic Chem course in the summer to knock this out. One of my friends who took the summer intensive did it for regular chem said it is definitely doable for regular chem. But he advised me to be careful about doing it for Organic. What do you suggest?

3) I though physics for med school does not have to be calc-based. Could someone clarify?

4) I don't mind taking 3 courses / working 40 hrs / doing 4 hrs of volunteer work/week. I think I can do it (we will see after my Fall semester.)
But the thing I worry about is: Is this enough to show sustained academic excellence? 3 courses amounts to roughly 7-8 semester units. 3 for the lectures, and 1-2 for the labs.

Thanks again.

To try to address some outstanding questions....

1) I agree with others to be careful with doubling up Physics/OChem, full time work, and volunteering--this is alot on your plate and the grades will matter more to adcoms then how much you had on your plate. Consider taking some upper level classes the year of your application cycle. (you can send schools updates of your grades after your fall semester).


2) Agree with your friend to be careful with intensive o-chem...

3) Agree that Physics does not need to be Calc based--in fact there is no reason to do this--the MCAT physics doesn't use Calc so the non-Calculus based is better practice for the MCAT.

4) same answer as #1. Don't rush the process---slow and steady wins the race---

 

[galak]

Thanksfor addressing those questions ruraldr !!

Everyone has been really helpful

 

[galak]

Ok, from all your advice, what do you think about this schedule?

Spring 09
Bio 1 / Bio 1 Lab

Summer 09 - taking leave of absence for summer intensive
Chem 1 / Chem 1 Lab
Chem 2 / Chem 2 Lab

Fall 09
Org Chem 1 / Org 1 Chem Lab
Bio 2

Spring 10
Org Chem 2 / Org 2 Chem Lab
Bio 2 Lab
Summer 10 - taking leave of absence for summer intensive
Phys 1 / Phys 1 Lab
Phys 2 / Phys 2 Lab

 

[makushin]

.