Vet School reality TV on National Geographic

[lailanni]

Trying to link here if the above didn't work.

Ha. I'm not sure if this was posted on here earlier. If so, my search function missed it, sorry!

A new reality TV series follows 1st and 4th year students at Cornell. Apparently years 2 and 3 were boring

Can any Cornell people comment? Or did everyone have to sign a non-disclosure? Given that this is a national TV program, what kind of compensation was offered? I'm curious how often film crews were out and how this impacted regular life at the VTH.

I only watched one clip and it didn't involve anyone having a study meltdown, so definitely not accurate reality TV for me

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[shortnsweet]

Lol when we were filmed in Scotland, we had to sign a release form. We were also told that when it aired we would get 1GBP as compensation, never saw that coin.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Lol when we were filmed in Scotland, we had to sign a release form. We were also told that when it aired we would get 1GBP as compensation, never saw that coin.

D:

Also, it looks like it could be fun to watch. I'll hate the show and say bad things if they don't allow students to discuss debt/loans, though.

 

[jmo1012]

well i only made it 4 minutes before i quit, couldnt stop rolling my eyes. looks silly to me, but perhaps will be entertaining and fascinating to the general viewer

 

[LetItSnow]

I love when the tech was telling the student to go get more help from the other end of the hospital. "Run! RUN!" I just about died when I heard that. If it's so damn urgent that you need more help NOW NOW NOW .... um ... then have the student pick up the phone and CALL down to ICU, not go running down there. Stupid.

Maybe the full episodes will be different, but the clip I watched made it seem like we basically don't do any classwork but just spend our entire time in clinics.

And I got really tired of the "Cornell is so superior" attitude. Too many quotes from students talking about why Cornell is so awesome. Meh.

On the other hand ... whatever. If it gives non-medical types a little bit better idea of what veterinary medicine is all about ... great. Beats Dr. Pol.

 

[lailanni]

Maybe the full episodes will be different, but the clip I watched made it seem like we basically don't do any classwork but just spend our entire time in clinics.

Yeah, where's the cadavers in first year? None of that? Because that's basically what first year is...

And I found it hilarious when they were doing some salivary gland surgery and all the 4th year was involved with was handing the animal back to the owner. They really glossed over that, but that's about right

Edit- also saw a clip where they were learning how to do physical exams on teaching dogs. They made it look like "playing with puppies" and one of the students was baby talking the dogs. Sigh. Let's just reinforce that stereotype, thanks TV. That's all I do all day long - play with dogs.

Also saw a clip from a different vet based reality TV show where the vet was doing free surgery and saying things like "the important part is that the animal gets treated, not the money." Don't get the general public to expect free things. I'm sure the tire store would love it if I asked for free tires and said "The important part is that I have tires, it's not about money."

What I'd love to see is a TV show highlighting some of the great work that vets have done - vets that have passed away from suicide. Honor our colleagues and shed light on a tough topic deserving attention. Not candy coated, generally useless TV.

But this is why I rarely watch TV. Back to books and documentaries...

 

[DVMDream]

Yeah, where's the cadavers in first year? None of that? Because that's basically what first year is...

And I found it hilarious when they were doing some salivary gland surgery and all the 4th year was involved with was handing the animal back to the owner. They really glossed over that, but that's about right

They missed the 4642277 phone calls the student made/answered because fluffy's owner called every hour to be sure fluffy was ok still.

 

[finnickthedog]

Maybe the full episodes will be different, but the clip I watched made it seem like we basically don't do any classwork but just spend our entire time in clinics.

Whoa, wait, hold up... there's classwork in vet school?

I think I need to change my plans.

 

[jmo1012]

They missed the 4642277 phone calls the student made/answered because fluffy's owner called every hour to be sure fluffy was ok still.

dont forget the 5753388 pages of paperwork the student wrote for fluffy's medical record

 

[Minnerbelle]

Yeah, where's the cadavers in first year? None of that? Because that's basically what first year is...

And I found it hilarious when they were doing some salivary gland surgery and all the 4th year was involved with was handing the animal back to the owner. They really glossed over that, but that's about right

What they really need to do is have a 10 min thing where they follow a student hour by hour on a lecture only day.

Hour 1 - hour 8 all essentially lectures of various types. Some actually with students listening. Others where they're on Facebook. Getting super antsy by the last lecture. Then running home to walk the dog and eat ramen. Then going into anatomy lab for review until 10 pm or so. Then going home to shower and cram until 3 am crying themselves to sleep.


I liked the clip of the dypneic dog, where they made it seem like the student was essentially responsible for the dogs care up to diagnosing the pleural effusion. But then his major role after that is running to get an ICU tech.

 

[LetItSnow]

I liked the clip of the dypneic dog, where they made it seem like the student was essentially responsible for the dogs care up to diagnosing the pleural effusion. But then his major role after that is running to get an ICU tech.

Even better, they so heavily dramatized it (something about "drowning" in his own blood or something? I forget) ..... and the dog totally trotted in under its own power. And if I get a true respiratory emergency in my ER, no way is a student the first one making a diagnosis of <anything>.

Yeah. I mean, I get that they have to dramatize it to make it interesting for the viewer. But I did a lot of eye rolling when I watched the clip.

"Run! RUN!"

dont forget the 5753388 pages of paperwork the student wrote for fluffy's medical record

.... that nobody ever read.

(Seriously, on my surgery rotation, the chief of service made a big deal out of us writing daily SOAPs ... and as soon as she left, the senior resident said "Guys, I don't even know where to find the SOAPs in the software. I'll leave it up to you to use that information as you see fit.")

 

[Minnerbelle]

.... that nobody ever read.

(Seriously, on my surgery rotation, the chief of service made a big deal out of us writing daily SOAPs ... and as soon as she left, the senior resident said "Guys, I don't even know where to find the SOAPs in the software. I'll leave it up to you to use that information as you see fit.")

Haha, or just deleted and replaced with their standard canned surgery report, onco discharge, etc...

 

[DVMDream]

Haha, or just deleted and replaced with their standard canned surgery report, onco discharge, etc...

I had the resident just today actually not change my discharge much at all and just printed it off as good to go. Usually they go through and change a bunch of stuff so I was kind of surprised he just left it, maybe he's out of ****s to give.

Though I honestly want to know if they even give two craps about the twice daily SOAPs we do. I've never been given any feedback on a SOAP and I've never on any service seen a clinician actually look at them

 

[Minnerbelle]

Dan! Go run a PT/PTT on this patient!

A male student that we're led to believe is Dan scoots back with a red top tube.

Definitely better than Dr. Pol though, and totes something my parents would show relatives and go "that's what minnerbelle did!" I don't think I would be able to stomach watching it, but all in all I don't think it's bad at all, and if anything what we need on air compared to all the other garbage out there.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I had the resident just today actually not change my discharge much at all and just printed it off as good to go. Usually they go through and change a bunch of stuff so I was kind of surprised he just left it, maybe he's out of ****s to give.

Though I honestly want to know if they even give two craps about the twice daily SOAPs we do. I've never been given any feedback on a SOAP and I've never on any service seen a clinician actually look at them

It totally depended on the department and the resident/clinician for me. Some really cared about the effort you put in them and insisted you signed your name on it along with the clinicians because it was your work. And they thanked me for having a good discharge which made their lives easier.

Others could care less. Especially residents of a certain particular department (cough cough, onco). They didn't even look over them. Just deleted every single one of them and replaced with what they had. Like I'm sorry, if you already had a 3 page thing on lymphoma that you sent home with every patient, why did you make me write one personalized for a particular patient? Suuuuch a waste of time. It's not like I enjoy writing stupid discharges. I don't care that they have standard ones, like that's totally cool. But when I'm slaving away 70 hrs a week on your service, don't make me do **** that have no purpose.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

ooomg, like vet school is exaaactly like i thought it was. can't wait, puuuuupies all day!!!1!1!!

 

[shortnsweet]

I had the resident just today actually not change my discharge much at all and just printed it off as good to go. Usually they go through and change a bunch of stuff so I was kind of surprised he just left it, maybe he's out of ****s to give.

Though I honestly want to know if they even give two craps about the twice daily SOAPs we do. I've never been given any feedback on a SOAP and I've never on any service seen a clinician actually look at them

Yes...we do in fact read them and they are important. They are a legal document...we just have about 20000 other things we also do as interns and residents...

You've got to remember for every one patient you have to know everything about, we have ten. So sometimes it doesn't seem like we are paying attention to detail, but we are doing our best.

It's hard to see the other side as a student...I remember thinking the house officers just didn't care, then I became one. Eye opener.

Sorry. I'll get off my soap box now.

It totally depended on the department and the resident/clinician for me. Some really cared about the effort you put in them and insisted you signed your name on it along with the clinicians because it was your work. And they thanked me for having a good discharge which made their lives easier.

Others could care less. Especially residents of a certain particular department (cough cough, onco). They didn't even look over them. Just deleted every single one of them and replaced with what they had. Like I'm sorry, if you already had a 3 page thing on lymphoma that you sent home with every patient, why did you make me write one personalized for a particular patient? Suuuuch a waste of time. It's not like I enjoy writing stupid discharges. I don't care that they have standard ones, like that's totally cool. But when I'm slaving away 70 hrs a week on your service, don't make me do **** that have no purpose.

I want to say they made you do it for practice in writing discharges, but yeah, that seems cruel.

 

[DVMDream]

But when I'm slaving away 70 hrs a week on your service, don't make me do **** that have no purpose.

This. I don't care if they have a pre-done discharge they like, just tell me. Heck, let's make both of our lives easier and I'll copy/paste that in for you.

Today was frustrating because our "adults" just decided to leave us, at 11 AM. They didn't show back up until almost 4:30, then wanted to round. I don't mind being at school all day or for long hours, but don't make me sit around doing nothing because you've decided to go off and desert us for whatever reason. It is a waste of my time and money.

 

[DVMDream]

Yes...we do in fact read them and they are important. They are a legal document...we just have about 20000 other things we also do as interns and residents...

You've got to remember for every one patient you have to know everything about, we have ten. So sometimes it doesn't seem like we are paying attention to detail, but we are doing our best.

Oh, I know some really do care, you can tell.

Just the particular resident we were with this week, doesn't care and it shows. As students, we had to keep going to other clinicians to actually get patients the care they needed because the resident would literally shrug and go, "meh" and walk away. He'd also keep changing the clinician's plan for patients without talking to her or the students then get pissed that what we had set up for the patient wasn't what he wanted, because we'd discuss with the clinician already since he wasn't around and set things up the way she discussed through with us.

I'll send him to come hang out with you for a week....

 

[shortnsweet]

Oh, I know some really do care, you can tell.

Just the particular resident we were with this week, doesn't care and it shows. As students, we had to keep going to other clinicians to actually get patients the care they needed because the resident would literally shrug and go, "meh" and walk away. He'd also keep changing the clinician's plan for patients without talking to her or the students then get pissed that what we had set up for the patient wasn't what he wanted, because we'd discuss with the clinician already since he wasn't around and set things up the way she discussed through with us.

Been there. I'm not trying to make excuses for this guy, but it's a hard place to be some days. You're supposed to be an adult and allowed to manage your own cases, but then get overridden all the time and it can really make you feel crappy.

Plus add in the pressure of masters classes, boards, research projects, teaching students, on call shifts, etc...it's a lot.

As for the leaving you all day comment...see above. I know it seems unfair for you to be paying to sit there, but I know I for one appreciate my students. Use that time to study for your NAVLE, go over old clin path cases, read about a case you just saw, or go ask to follow another clinician/service. I had to leave my students today for a few hours for class, and my senior had to teach class, but when I came back, they had questions and topics they wanted me to go over with them. It's the world of academia.

 

[DVMDream]

Been there. I'm not trying to make excuses for this guy, but it's a hard place to be some days. You're supposed to be an adult and allowed to manage your own cases, but then get overridden all the time and it can really make you feel crappy.

Plus add in the pressure of masters classes, boards, research projects, teaching students, on call shifts, etc...it's a lot.

As for the leaving you all day comment...see above. I know it seems unfair for you to be paying to sit there, but I know I for one appreciate my students. Use that time to study for your NAVLE, go over old clin path cases, read about a case you just saw, or go ask to follow another clinician/service. I had to leave my students today for a few hours for class, and my senior had to teach class, but when I came back, they had questions and topics they wanted me to go over with them. It's the world of academia.

Yeah, I get that academia isn't perfect. It's fine when we get a, "hey, so and so is happening from x time to about y time and you'll be alone, please review a, b and c and we'll discuss it when we get back together or come up with some topics while I'm gone and we'll discuss them." It's frustrating when you aren't told anything, the clinician and resident disappear right after sx, don't say anything to anyone (including the techs) all day, then the resident is just chatting up in ICU about weekend plans while we're in the rounds room for 6 and 1/2 hours waiting on anyone to come back because they were supposed to meet back in there right after sx. I can only do so much NAVLE studying and reviewing of cases in that kind of time frame before I want to gouge my eyes out.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I want to say they made you do it for practice in writing discharges, but yeah, that seems cruel.

Practice for what? I wrote discharges when working ER, but mostly to summarize the stay and discharge instructions and follow up plan. I never have had to and never will write an onco discharge. And I learned nothing from the experience.

The only way it's at all productive for "practicing" writing discharges is if there is some sort of feedback. Otherwise it's just a waste of time. If they want to test your knowledge on the subject, there are so many less time consuming ways to do so, that shouldn't be a burden on the house officer. Like discussing the case while getting FNA samples or walking down the hall together (instead I heard gripes about their personal lives)

I mean I get that residents have a ton of **** to do. I never doubted that. Like I said, it was very individual and department dependent. Some really cared about the student experience, others resented having students around and it showed. Those people should have not chosen to be at a teaching hospital

 

[dyachei]

I got a lot of feedback on SOAPs and discharges. On pretty much every rotation. Never took onc though.

 

[StartingoverVet]

IIRC, at Penn, at least for SA internal medicine your grade was pretty much determined by the quality of your SOAPS. Or so I was told.
So there is that.

Maybe someone who actually made it to 4th year should chime in though.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

You guys are getting me really excited for rotations.

 

[that redhead]

SOAPs are important enough that I would suggest asking for feedback if you aren't getting it

 

[orca2011]

IIRC, at Penn, at least for SA internal medicine your grade was pretty much determined by the quality of your SOAPS. Or so I was told.
So there is that.

Maybe someone who actually made it to 4th year should chime in though.

Meh. I had a resident got over max 2 of my SOAPs in the month I was on.I even asked to have them looked over cause I wanted to know how it went. I think I gogot the same grade as classmates who had more gone over with them and I never felt like mine were spectacular.

 

[Jamr0ckin]

UTK definitely cares about your soaps. You can't finalize them without approval. And in medicine they are normally 5-10 pages long. I've had my discharges lengthened, shortened, not changed, and completely changed. I don't get bent out of shape about any paperwork anymore. Everyone has their quirks about how they like them done. I can't pander to everyone.

 

[DVMDream]

UTK definitely cares about your soaps. You can't finalize them without approval. And in medicine they are normally 5-10 pages long. I've had my discharges lengthened, shortened, not changed, and completely changed. I don't get bent out of shape about any paperwork anymore. Everyone has their quirks about how they like them done. I can't pander to everyone.

SOAP here is different than a discharge.

The discharges which can be ridiculously long are definitely cared about and gone over. The SOAPs, nobody says a damn word about them except, "do two per day, need to be done by 8AM and 8PM".

And then discharges get finalized, surgery reports get finalized, SOAPs don't get finalized.

 

[dyachei]

SOAP here is different than a discharge.

The discharges which can be ridiculously long are definitely cared about and gone over. The SOAPs, nobody says a damn word about them except, "do two per day, need to be done by 8AM and 8PM".

And then discharges get finalized, surgery reports get finalized, SOAPs don't get finalized.

they were different at UTK, too. And I think you know that from what I've told you in the past. But both SOAPs and discharges cannot be finished until approved by a clinician.

 

[dyachei]

Also, in IM, there were multiple times where we printed SOAPs, showed them to residents/interns/clinicians, corrected them as addressed, reprinted SOAPs, and re-submitted.

 

[DVMDream]

they were different at UTK, too. And I think you know that from what I've told you in the past. But both SOAPs and discharges cannot be finished until approved by a clinician.

Nope didn't know that. Just responding to what jam stated. But assume anyway.

 

[dyachei]

Nope didn't know that. Just responding to what jam stated. But assume anyway.

at what school are SOAPs and discharges the same? You made an assumption. Jam didn't say they were the same. And I've specifically discussed discharges with you before.

 

[DVMDream]

at what school are SOAPs and discharges the same? You made an assumption. Jam didn't say they were the same. And I've specifically discussed discharges with you before.

What did I say or do to you to make you get snappy with me in the first place? I quoted Jam, not you. But whatever it was, I'm sorry. I'm not going to argue with you on this.

 

[dyachei]

What did I say or do to you to make you get snappy with me in the first place? I quoted Jam, not you. But whatever it was, I'm sorry. I'm not going to argue with you on this.

I literally said above Jam

I got a lot of feedback on SOAPs and discharges.

So when you try to say it's the same thing, I want to correct it. To me, it was clear that Jam was talking about 2 different pieces of paperwork. You made an assumption that it wasn't. I'm correcting you.

And I think you know that from what I've told you in the past.

Was not meant to be snappy. Just I know we've talked about what I did at UTK. You telling me I was making assumptions was snappy.

 

[DVMDream]

And I think you know that from what I've told you in the past.

That was snappy and assuming. Maybe the tone didn't get across right but it read snappy and defensive and almost scolding, as if I were a child.

 

[dyachei]

That was snappy and assuming. Maybe the tone didn't get across right but it read snappy and defensive.

I have literally chatted with you about it on facebook before. That's all I was implying.

 

[shortnsweet]

You guys are getting me really excited for rotations.

You get out what you put in. You also have a long way to go before rotations, so I wouldn't fret too much yet.

And also for the complainers about SOAPs...i'll tell you exactly what I tell my students. Besides being legal documentation and a great history to go back to in the future, SOAPs show us that you are doing complete physicals each day and understanding the treatments and diagnostics being performed. Senior students are so lucky in that they get one or two patients to really focus on. You know that patient better than we do most of the time. Their quirks. You can pick up on a small change and alert us to it. SOAP formatting is also exactly how you should go about thinking and verbalizing each and every case for the rest of your career. It's the same format you present the case in rounds. And discharges teach you not only how to verbalize things to clients, but also how to speak to other vets. Poorly written documentation drives me up a wall. Paperwork sucks-- It's the last thing you want to do when you've been up the past 36 hours...but the students who do the best on my rota and the ones I know who are going to go far, are the ones who put in the effort.

Yeah, I get that academia isn't perfect. It's fine when we get a, "hey, so and so is happening from x time to about y time and you'll be alone, please review a, b and c and we'll discuss it when we get back together or come up with some topics while I'm gone and we'll discuss them." It's frustrating when you aren't told anything, the clinician and resident disappear right after sx, don't say anything to anyone (including the techs) all day, then the resident is just chatting up in ICU about weekend plans while we're in the rounds room for 6 and 1/2 hours waiting on anyone to come back because they were supposed to meet back in there right after sx. I can only do so much NAVLE studying and reviewing of cases in that kind of time frame before I want to gouge my eyes out.

It may sound harsh, but it is also not our job to entertain you all day when it is slow. I get that it is frustrating not being told anything, but we're human too--we forget. And so what if the resident is talking about something other than work? Did you go up to them and say "Hey do you mind going over this with me? I had a few questions about it?". I am sure any resident would be more than happy to talk to you, if not immediately, then later that day.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

You get out what you put in. You also have a long way to go before rotations, so I wouldn't fret too much yet.

And also for the complainers about SOAPs...i'll tell you exactly what I tell my students. Besides being legal documentation and a great history to go back to in the future, SOAPs show us that you are doing complete physicals each day and understanding the treatments and diagnostics being performed. Senior students are so lucky in that they get one or two patients to really focus on. You know that patient better than we do most of the time. Their quirks. You can pick up on a small change and alert us to it. SOAP formatting is also exactly how you should go about thinking and verbalizing each and every case for the rest of your career. It's the same format you present the case in rounds. And discharges teach you not only how to verbalize things to clients, but also how to speak to other vets. Poorly written documentation drives me up a wall. Paperwork sucks-- It's the last thing you want to do when you've been up the past 36 hours...but the students who do the best on my rota and the ones I know who are going to go far, are the ones who put in the effort.



It may sound harsh, but it is also not our job to entertain you all day when it is slow. I get that it is frustrating not being told anything, but we're human too--we forget. And so what if the resident is talking about something other than work? Did you go up to them and say "Hey do you mind going over this with me? I had a few questions about it?". I am sure any resident would be more than happy to talk to you, if not immediately, then later that day.

Well, we actually have rotations starting our first year here. I'm still unclear as to the extent of what we will be doing. It sounds like a lot of observation and a lot of technique/skill development in our clinical skills lab, but I know we have some hospital rotations, too.

Does anyone have any advice for a first year that will probably feel like she's in the way of 3rd/4th years and clinicians/residents?

 

[orca2011]

You get out what you put in. You also have a long way to go before rotations, so I wouldn't fret too much yet.

And also for the complainers about SOAPs...i'll tell you exactly what I tell my students. Besides being legal documentation and a great history to go back to in the future, SOAPs show us that you are doing complete physicals each day and understanding the treatments and diagnostics being performed. Senior students are so lucky in that they get one or two patients to really focus on. You know that patient better than we do most of the time. Their quirks. You can pick up on a small change and alert us to it. SOAP formatting is also exactly how you should go about thinking and verbalizing each and every case for the rest of your career. It's the same format you present the case in rounds. And discharges teach you not only how to verbalize things to clients, but also how to speak to other vets. Poorly written documentation drives me up a wall. Paperwork sucks-- It's the last thing you want to do when you've been up the past 36 hours...but the students who do the best on my rota and the ones I know who are going to go far, are the ones who put in the effort.

I totally get how you're all are way more busy than we realize, but I guess my point and maybe others who are complaining about SOAPs is that without the feedback, we don't actually know if we're understanding the treatments or diagnostics and the whole thought process. Maybe there is a key clinical sign and disease process I'm not thinking of and won't think of if we don't go over it.

I also don't necessarily want something I typed up and was never looked at, to become a legal document in case I just totally effed it up.

I don't mind doing them, I just wish they were actually looked at for accuracy half the time.

 

[orca2011]

Well, we actually have rotations starting our first year here. I'm still unclear as to the extent of what we will be doing. It sounds like a lot of observation and a lot of technique/skill development in our clinical skills lab, but I know we have some hospital rotations, too.

Does anyone have any advice for a first year that will probably feel like she's in the way of 3rd/4th years and clinicians/residents?

This was something I tried to do when I shadowed in places in the hospital, but learn where syringes, gauze, blood tubes, etc all are. It's really helpful if all of a sudden someone says they need something quickly but they're all busy and you know where it is to grab it.

 

[DVMDream]

It may sound harsh, but it is also not our job to entertain you all day when it is slow. I get that it is frustrating not being told anything, but we're human too--we forget. And so what if the resident is talking about something other than work? Did you go up to them and say "Hey do you mind going over this with me? I had a few questions about it?". I am sure any resident would be more than happy to talk to you, if not immediately, then later that day.

I never said it was your job to entertain us all day, nor do I expect or even want that. But I do think ignoring us for 6 and 1/2 hours is a bit ridiculous.

I also never said that residents can't discuss other things besides work. Come on, you know me better than that with how many times I post here that balance is key. It is when you know you have a group of students that you haven't talked to all day and you continue to ignore them to socialize. Come on. Heck, I was lucky because the students last week weren't allowed to leave until after 9PM and they had to wait while the resident socialized. That isn't acceptable.

I think you really need to know this resident to understand where I'm coming from. I could have gone up to him and asked something, if I wanted to be sarcastically degraded and told my thoughts are stupid.

And nobody is disagreeing that SOAPs aren't important. We realize they are legal documents that need to be completed thoroughly. But when you get zero feedback on them, it is annoying, especially when you put all the time into them. Yes, they need to be done, yes they are important, give feedback please.

 

[shortnsweet]

I totally get how you're all are way more busy than we realize, but I guess my point and maybe others who are complaining about SOAPs is that without the feedback, we don't actually know if we're understanding the treatments or diagnostics and the whole thought process. Maybe there is a key clinical sign and disease process I'm not thinking of and won't think of if we don't go over it.

I also don't necessarily want something I typed up and was never looked at, to become a legal document in case I just totally effed it up.

I don't mind doing them, I just wish they were actually looked at for accuracy half the time.

That's totally fine. You should get feedback. I agree wholeheartedly about that. It was easier in my internship to read and edit as they were in UVIS. I would also get deficiencies if I had not read and verified my students' SOAPs in a timely manner. Here it is a bit more tricky with SOAPs being handwritten, but I think that is being changed...maybe...hopefully...eventually. I just don't like hearing "Should we even bother to do this."

 

[shortnsweet]

I never said it was your job to entertain us all day, nor do I expect or even want that. But I do think ignoring us for 6 and 1/2 hours is a bit ridiculous.

I also never said that residents can't discuss other things besides work. Come on, you know me better than that with how many times I post here that balance is key. It is when you know you have a group of students that you haven't talked to all day and you continue to ignore them to socialize. Come on. Heck, I was lucky because the students last week weren't allowed to leave until after 9PM and they had to wait while the resident socialized. That isn't acceptable.

I think you really need to know this resident to understand where I'm coming from. I could have gone up to him and asked something, if I wanted to be sarcastically degraded and told my thoughts are stupid.

And nobody is disagreeing that SOAPs aren't important. We realize they are legal documents that need to be completed thoroughly. But when you get zero feedback on them, it is annoying, especially when you put all the time into them. Yes, they need to be done, yes they are important, give feedback please.

My best advice is this:

Ask.

Be that student. Be the go getter and ask if there's anything you can be doing, if there are good cases that you can look up, if you can sit down and go over your SOAPs. Ask what you can do better or work on. I can't speak for this resident, but everyone I have worked with appreciates and notices those students. If you aren't getting what you need from that resident or you feel he is going to degrade you, go to the intern or another resident. Who knows...maybe they left you to see if anyone was going to step up and ask. I have definitely seen groups who when we ask them if they want to go over something you hear crickets. There is nothing more rewarding than an engaged group of students.

 

[DVMDream]

with SOAPs being handwritten

I'm very sorry. Why? I can't. Hopefully they change that. I couldn't imagine trying to read some people's handwriting.

 

[shortnsweet]

I'm very sorry. Why? I can't. Hopefully they change that. I couldn't imagine trying to read some people's handwriting.

All of our medical records are paper. It's awful.

 

[DVMDream]

My best advice is this:

Ask.

Be that student. Be the go getter and ask if there's anything you can be doing, if there are good cases that you can look up, if you can sit down and go over your SOAPs. Ask what you can do better or work on. I can't speak for this resident, but everyone I have worked with appreciates and notices those students. If you aren't getting what you need from that resident or you feel he is going to degrade you, go to the intern or another resident. Who knows...maybe they left you to see if anyone was going to step up and ask. I have definitely seen groups who when we ask them if they want to go over something you hear crickets. There is nothing more rewarding than an engaged group of students.

Pretend you have a resident with undiagnosed autism, complete apathy towards everything (including patient care) and an incredibly sarcastic, bad attitude. Basically, I try to avoid speaking to him for my own sanity and limit interactions to necessary ones.

And I get the dead silence when students are asked what they want to discuss is frustrating. But from the student's perspective, I'm like, "uhh, there are like 6436436 different possibilities, what to talk about, what do other people want to talk about, is that even that common, I'd like to discuss common things, wait what are the common things, does that even apply to this subject/rotation, oh crap it's been like a minute and we're all still awkwardly staring... ummm..." I can definitely tell we're getting better at deciding on topics but there are so many possibilities that it becomes a lot of what should we discuss, what is important compared to what we'll probably never see. Often times I'll just say can we go over some of the more common diseases/injuries that we'll see as a general practitioner relating to whatever service.

 

[DVMDream]

All of our medical records are paper. It's awful.

 

[jmo1012]

you can write soaps in uvis?? wow - we really did not use that program hardly at all. discharges, lab requests, prescriptions and charges. (you can imagine what that does for the rest of the MR like soaps and surgery reports...

 

[orca2011]

That's totally fine. You should get feedback. I agree wholeheartedly about that. It was easier in my internship to read and edit as they were in UVIS. I would also get deficiencies if I had not read and verified my students' SOAPs in a timely manner. Here it is a bit more tricky with SOAPs being handwritten, but I think that is being changed...maybe...hopefully...eventually. I just don't like hearing "Should we even bother to do this."

Ah, yeah. Our SOAPs aren't in the computer system either, so that likely is a contributing factor. They can be handwritten or typed up and stuck in the chart. Supposedly we're moving to an all electronic system for all medical notes, but who knows when that actually happens. All progressive notes are also handwritten. The only thing in the computer system is diagnostics and reports and the discharges.