Veteran, low grades, need honest advice

[QueenAudrey]

I graduated 5 years ago and am still 2-3 years away from applying to a post-bacc to finish pre-req's and retake my very old ones; however, I'm a vet, so you know I'm going to *strategically* plan my way forward. Help me!

I had some poor grades right after a nasty TBI/concussion that devastated my spatial intelligence freshman year: C+ in Calc and B- in Physics.

Also, I have one F and a few D's, all in mandatory Phys Ed classes -- Combat Survival Swimming, Combative Boxing, Combative Grappling, and Military Gymnastics -- sprinkled throughout my four years. (No excuse for these. I worked very hard for those D's!) There is zero chance of retaking such unique courses, so I am stuck with them.

All this earned me a
cGPA of 3.65 w/strong upward trend
sGPA of 3.23

My plan for the next few years: volunteer @ USO and hospice, eventually scribe, shadow, and then research during post-bacc.

1) Is it worth explaining about my head injury as a factor in my early grades (or would that do more harm than good)?

2) I know some schools screen out anyone with a D or F in their record, regardless of GPA (cough cough Brown cough). What MD/DO schools might still be within reach?

3) I would love to do a linkage program via post-bacc. Is this feasible or just plain delusional (what if I get the kind of grades I got junior/senior year, ie: 3.9)?

I will take any advice about what I can do to redeem myself. Proclamations of doom are also welcome. Lay it on me. THANK YOU!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[doctorleospaceman]

1) Is it worth explaining about my head injury as a factor in my early grades (or would that do more harm than good)?
I believe that after a successful postbacc, your GPAs would not be concerning, Adcoms will see that those courses were years ago and take the grades with a grain of salt. Only bring up the TBI if someone asks specifically about why you had worse grades early on.

2) I know some schools screen out anyone with a D or F in their record, regardless of GPA (cough cough Brown cough). What MD/DO schools might still be within reach?
I didn't even know that Brown does that, but then again, Brown is special in many ways (you wouldn't want to apply there regardless unless you attended their undergrad). Many schools have minimum GPA cutoffs for secondaries, but they are usually a 3.0. You'll be a shoo-in for DO schools with a solid postbacc because of your unique life story.

3) I would love to do a linkage program via post-bacc. Is this feasible or just plain delusional (what if I get the kind of grades I got junior/senior year, ie: 3.9)?
Not my area of expertise, but it definitely doesn't sound delusional and may be preferential to an unofficial one. Your chances should be good at getting a spot at one of them, just make sure you research them well.

 

[Ad2b]

1) you could incorporate the head injury story into your personal statement; how it impacted your life, what you did to overcome it; and the part of being in the service (/salute, btw)

2) Brown is special. Ignore it unless you ugrad there like the person above me states; D, F, C's, multiple W's, more F's, more D's that were retake of F's and then some W's that were retakes of the D's and the F's and C's... so, no, they won't kill you but, you MUST do well now for MD (that's my ugrad pattern, btw, from 1985ish)

3) Post bacc is great if that's a school you want to attend but many just DIY... its not difficult though but getting registered the first time at some schools can be

 

[esob]

As a fellow disabled vet, I will pay forward the same advice I've gotten; if your disability doesn't require you to need accommodations, it's best to skip mentioning it at all. It might play out well but it might also backfire since every school has fitness standards and if they feel your disability doesn't allow you to rise to those standards they won't admit you. In an ideal world, adcoms would applaud those of us who have had to work even harder than our traditional counterparts to fight through injuries sustained in service our country but the consensus seems to be: we ain't there yet

 

[QueenAudrey]

As a fellow disabled vet, I will pay forward the same advice I've gotten; if your disability doesn't require you to need accommodations, it's best to skip mentioning it at all. It might play out well but it might also backfire since every school has fitness standards and if they feel your disability doesn't allow you to rise to those standards they won't admit you. In an ideal world, adcoms would applaud those of us who have had to work even harder than our traditional counterparts to fought through injuries sustained in service our country but the consensus seems to be: we ain't there yet

Thanks battle, this was the information I needed (stigma > benefit). I don't require accomodations so I will keep it to myself.

 

[QueenAudrey]

1) you could incorporate the head injury story into your personal statement; how it impacted your life, what you did to overcome it; and the part of being in the service (/salute, btw)

2) Brown is special. Ignore it unless you ugrad there like the person above me states; D, F, C's, multiple W's, more F's, more D's that were retake of F's and then some W's that were retakes of the D's and the F's and C's... so, no, they won't kill you but, you MUST do well now for MD (that's my ugrad pattern, btw, from 1985ish)

3) Post bacc is great if that's a school you want to attend but many just DIY... its not difficult though but getting registered the first time at some schools can be

Thank you! Right now I am considering a PS that relates my reasons for joining the Army to my reasons for medicine. I may PM you in a couple years if you're up to reading.

I will take your advice about ignoring Brown. Good to know the majority of schools aren't like that.

A formal post bacc appeals to me because of the support in terms of committee letter, mock interviews, etc.

 

[QueenAudrey]

I believe that after a successful postbacc, your GPAs would not be concerning, Adcoms will see that those courses were years ago and take the grades with a grain of salt. Only bring up the TBI if someone asks specifically about why you had worse grades early on.

Many schools have minimum GPA cutoffs for secondaries, but they are usually a 3.0

Thanks for taking the time to respond! I used an Excel file someone posted here on SDN to calculate what my GPA would be after post bacc. If I get straight A-, I can bring my sGPA up to 3.5. I think I will apply broadly to MD and DO and see who will bite. At this point in my life (with what little clinical exposure I have already) I don't see myself going for surgery or anything too crazy competitive -- maybe OB/GYN -- so I think/hope any accredited school would get me there, if I put in the effort.

 

[Ad2b]

A formal post bacc appeals to me because of the support in terms of committee letter, mock interviews, etc.

Just know that you are paying extra for something the rest of us get for free. My LORs came from any professor I took as I got to know all of them, mock interviews may be something you can get through AMSA, or AED; or given your life history, you may very well not need them

Again, most/many of us do this and get in without having to do a formalized post-bacc; if that's what your heart is set on, then go for it

One other note and it is a common misperception:

If your undergraduate degree is granted, you CANNOT change that GPA. It is what it is and will show up as such no matter what you do.

What any course taken afterwards does is:

1) show up on it's own line item on the file the schools see
2) calculates a post-bacc GPA

I wish you the very best as you start this long journey to and through med school!

 

[QueenAudrey]

Just know that you are paying extra for something the rest of us get for free. My LORs came from any professor I took as I got to know all of them, mock interviews may be something you can get through AMSA, or AED; or given your life history, you may very well not need them

Again, most/many of us do this and get in without having to do a formalized post-bacc; if that's what your heart is set on, then go for it

One other note and it is a common misperception:

If your undergraduate degree is granted, you CANNOT change that GPA. It is what it is and will show up as such no matter what you do.

What any course taken afterwards does is:

1) show up on it's own line item on the file the schools see
2) calculates a post-bacc GPA

I wish you the very best as you start this long journey to and through med school!

Thanks for the well wishes and advice

The post bacc GPA question has been driving me cuckoo for a while! I know post bacc GPA is listed separately, but I do believe it is rolled up with the rest of the undergrad GPA -- I will try to attach the AAMC document.

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...140d8acb35af/amcas_grade_conversion_guide.pdf

 

[Ad2b]

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...140d8acb35af/amcas_grade_conversion_guide.pdf

What they'll see is attached (taken from that site).

So, let's say you have a 2.196 from 1986; yep, they'll see that. Then let's say they see a 3.97 from 2016, they'll see that on the post-bacc line.

I have been told by adcoms the post-bacc and ugrad GPA do NOT get consolidated they are always separate. Maybe they do? I don't know, I guess. I'm going by what I was told before I started this path of mine in 2009, because otherwise, I'd have no prayer as that 2.196 has about 320 credit hours on it.

 

[QueenAudrey]

OK, gotcha. I guess the smartest course of action would be to prepare for either possibility. I will have to study hard for the MCAT, highlight my strengths on my app, and hope some school takes pity on my soul I really appreciate you sharing your experience!

 

[esob]

Also, not sure if your TBI was service connected or not, but if so and you have a rating, you definitely need to look into chapter 31.

 

[QueenAudrey]

Also, not sure if your TBI was service connected or not, but if so and you have a rating, you definitely need to look into chapter 31.

I have a service connected rating, yup, I will apply for Voc Rehab for sure! Thanks again

 

[WellWornLad]

1) Is it worth explaining about my head injury as a factor in my early grades (or would that do more harm than good)?

Saying a TBI has impacted your ability to think or concentrate will definitely hurt you. Besides raising questions about your intellectual ability to complete medical school, it will bring implications of emotional lability and impaired executive functioning that tend to go hand in hand with this sort of injury.

2) I know some schools screen out anyone with a D or F in their record, regardless of GPA (cough cough Brown cough). What MD/DO schools might still be within reach?

Most of them, really. I don't have any military experience so I'm kind of curious how you fail a Phys. Ed. course, but if you have some funny or reedeming stories about it you could almost turn it into a positive.

3) I would love to do a linkage program via post-bacc. Is this feasible or just plain delusional (what if I get the kind of grades I got junior/senior year, ie: 3.9)?

I don't know what a linkage program is, but why are you waiting 2-3 years? Go to night school to finish them if you have to. Medicine is a long, long road and you don't want to waste time right out of the gate if you're serious about it. Not to sound too morbid, but your ability to learn peaks somewhere around 25 and goes inexorably downhill thereafter. I'm in my 30s now and while I'm still a relatively smart guy it was just plain easier to learn a huge amount of information during my 20s.

 

[QueenAudrey]

1) Is it worth explaining about my head injury as a factor in my early grades (or would that do more harm than good)?

Saying a TBI has impacted your ability to think or concentrate will definitely hurt you. Besides raising questions about your intellectual ability to complete medical school, it will bring implications of emotional lability and impaired executive functioning that tend to go hand in hand with this sort of injury.

2) I know some schools screen out anyone with a D or F in their record, regardless of GPA (cough cough Brown cough). What MD/DO schools might still be within reach?

Most of them, really. I don't have any military experience so I'm kind of curious how you fail a Phys. Ed. course, but if you have some funny or reedeming stories about it you could almost turn it into a positive.

3) I would love to do a linkage program via post-bacc. Is this feasible or just plain delusional (what if I get the kind of grades I got junior/senior year, ie: 3.9)?

I don't know what a linkage program is, but why are you waiting 2-3 years? Go to night school to finish them if you have to. Medicine is a long, long road and you don't want to waste time right out of the gate if you're serious about it. Not to sound too morbid, but your ability to learn peaks somewhere around 25 and goes inexorably downhill thereafter. I'm in my 30s now and while I'm still a relatively smart guy it was just plain easier to learn a huge amount of information during my 20s.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I value your perspective as a civilian, because these are exactly the kind of thoughts I need to formulate good answers for before interviews someday. The TBI was 8 years ago and impacted my ability to visualize shapes or carry out advanced spatial reasoning for the few months it took for me to recover. I think I will refrain from mentioning it instead of triggering the stigma that head injuries carry. Service academy phys ed courses =/= civilian college or high school courses. Think jumping off a 30 meter diving board blindfolded and then swimming through hoops underwater in uniform and heavy boots kind of thing. Boxing people who outweigh you by 50 pounds because there are so few women available to pair up with you, using headgear that doesn't fit you because they only carry the larger (ie: men's) sizes. Making 12 pull ups a mandatory requirement to pass a class. These were my school's weed-out classes and it took every ounce of effort to pass. Obviously, I really need to come up with a good, objective, unemotional, lucid way to explain what these classes were like, and I thank you for pointing that out! A "linkage" is when a post bacc has an agreement with a medical school that allows post bacc students in their second year to apply to that school and skip the glide year; acceptance is usually conditional on some minimum MCAT score. I am choosing to wait a few years because I have kids and a husband who suffered enough through my deployments -- once my husband retires, he can stay at home with the kids and I can focus entirely on my second career without splitting my obligations too much. Again, I do truly appreciate your honesty and will take what you've said into consideration as I figure out how to frame my app for civilian adcoms. Thanks again and best of luck with your career!

 

[Greg K]

OK, gotcha. I guess the smartest course of action would be to prepare for either possibility. I will have to study hard for the MCAT, highlight my strengths on my app, and hope some school takes pity on my soul I really appreciate you sharing your experience!

Fellow vet writing and knee deep in application season right now. Dude you are an academy grad, that will take you a far way and if you do well on the MCAT and write a couple good essays I would imagine good things in your future. I'm a former officer and after my post-bacc my numbers were like sGPA 3.6 cGPA 3.4 MCAT 519 and the cycle is treating me well. Keep your head up and think of the giant things working in your favor, not old stuff working against you and lets be real; no medical school is going to worry too much about physical education if you can hack it in the sciences.

 

[QueenAudrey]

Fellow vet writing and knee deep in application season right now. Dude you are an academy grad, that will take you a far way and if you do well on the MCAT and write a couple good essays I would imagine good things in your future. I'm a former officer and after my post-bacc my numbers were like sGPA 3.6 cGPA 3.4 MCAT 519 and the cycle is treating me well. Keep your head up and think of the giant things working in your favor, not old stuff working against you and lets be real; no medical school is going to worry too much about physical education if you can hack it in the sciences.

Thanks so much for the kind words. I was wondering how much an adcom would care about phys ed, and I like your common sense take on it. Well done on the MCAT. I hope you get a lot of love from the schools you want!

 

[bunchesonothing]

Deleted. Misread.

 

[tnedoots]

I had a couple of Ds and at least one F on my transcript. I managed to get interviews at some good schools and an acceptance into a pretty decent school.
Do well on all the pre med stuff, then apply really broadly. Your secondaries are a good chance to make yourself standout as a veteran with life experience. Use them to do just that; they are probably one of the most underrated aspects of the applications process.

 

[QueenAudrey]

I had a couple of Ds and at least one F on my transcript. I managed to get interviews at some good schools and an acceptance into a pretty decent school.
Do well on all the pre med stuff, then apply really broadly. Your secondaries are a good chance to make yourself standout as a veteran with life experience. Use them to do just that; they are probably one of the most underrated aspects of the applications process.

That's encouraging to hear. Congratulations! I have started brainstorming ideas for secondaries while the memories are still fresh. I have some great deployment stories that can answer the most common questions. Hopefully I don't come across as a one-trick pony but, at any rate, I still have a few years to plan.

 

[QueenAudrey]

You're fine. I would save your money and do a pb on your own. Stats aren't everything.

Thanks for your response! Yeah, still weighing pros/cons of formal vs informal post bacc. If I had a local university, I probably would just DIY. We'll have to see where my spouse is stationed in a few years. Establishing residency is not going to be fun after moving around every 24-36 months. I think I will be doomed to pay OOS tuition at any public school.