Veterans: Anyone using VA voc rehab?

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So I got denied for medical school mainly because my counselor made the determination that my disability is not compatible with being a physician. Well I was seeing my VA doctor and I asked him about this and he told me in no way would my disability prevent me from attending medical school and said he will write a letter attesting to that. He was also like "why the **** is a voc rehabcounselorr making medical determinations, they are not a damn doctor." Which is a really good ****ing point, I am so sick of Voc Rehab and their games.

I dont really have a point here, I am just venting, sorry.

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So I got denied for medical school mainly because my counselor made the determination that my disability is not compatible with being a physician. Well I was seeing my VA doctor and I asked him about this and he told me in no way would my disability prevent me from attending medical school and said he will write a letter attesting to that. He was also like "why the **** is a voc rehabcounselorr making medical determinations, they are not a damn doctor." Which is a really good ****ing point, I am so sick of Voc Rehab and their games.

I dont really have a point here, I am just venting, sorry.

Your venting is unfortunately a common theme with VRCs (I’ve done it plenty of times myself). I absolutely agree with getting your primary care doc or specialty care provider to validate your aptitude and ability to be a physician.

I always post this link in regards to “aptitude” and “ability” @esob had referenced last month in another thread.

38 CFR § 21.51 - Determining employment handicap.

Section 21.51 in CFR 38 lays down the outline for

1) ability
2) aptitude
3) Interest

Keep at your VRC with the professional recommendation. While I wait for my disability to reflect on my ebenefits profile, I’m making preparations as well with my own VA specialty care provider in order to cover all the boxes in the hyperlink I gave.
 
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Your venting is unfortunately a common theme with VRCs (I’ve done it plenty of times myself). I absolutely agree with getting your primary care doc or specialty care provider to validate your aptitude and ability to be a physician.

I always post this link in regards to “aptitude” and “ability” @esob had referenced last month in another thread.

38 CFR § 21.51 - Determining employment handicap.

Section 21.51 in CFR 38 lays down the outline for

1) ability
2) aptitude
3) Interest

Keep at your VRC with the professional recommendation. While I wait for my disability to reflect on my ebenefits profile, I’m making preparations as well with my own VA specialty care provider in order to cover all the boxes in the hyperlink I gave.
I just dont get how a VA program can be so against the veteran's interest. Who is running this **** that they go out of their way to make sure you are not eligible? Stikes me as something sinister is going on and the goal is to make you not eligible.
 
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I just dont get how a VA program can be so against the veteran's interest. Who is running this **** that they go out of their way to make sure you are not eligible? Stikes me as something sinister is going on and the goal is to make you not eligible.

I do know in certain regions (my last VRC in San Antonio for example) are still hung up on the 2015 changes of the post 9-11 and Chapter 31 clauses. At that, I’ve found out that in certain regional districts, they are strongly advised to maintain minimum thresholds when it comes to investing in specific programs for employment.

As you might tell, Medical degrees supersede the minimum “investments and costs” for many of these regions. It’s not law, but many are wired to still abide by those “unwritten-decisions.”
 
I do know in certain regions (my last VRC in San Antonio for example) are still hung up on the 2015 changes of the post 9-11 and Chapter 31 clauses. At that, I’ve found out that in certain regional districts, they are strongly advised to maintain minimum thresholds when it comes to investing in specific programs for employment.

As you might tell, Medical degrees supersede the minimum “investments and costs” for many of these regions. It’s not law, but many are wired to still abide by those “unwritten-decisions.”

Well, my regional office has a history of doing unethical things and things not allowed by the regulations. One time they forbid walk-ins to the office, which isn't allowed. I contacted my senator and got that fixed. That was just one of three times I contacted my senator's office for issues there.

Also, it is questionable ethics for a voc rehab counselor to be making a medical decision that they are not qualified to make. My doctor was so pissed when I told him this.

It is those "unwritten-decisions" that make me upset. Who is out there saying they SHOULD be denying vets when there can. Just really makes me think about who is running these places. It is not those who care about veterans but instead those who want to maintain some sort of status quo and show how much money they saved or something.

I have been using this program for years, I have wanted to pull my hair out every semester since I started.
 
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Ok so my appointment is next Tuesday, I got pretty much all the paperwork besides a couple of things...

1) is it necessary to bring the original mailed letter from the VA saying that we’re rated for our disability and that we’ll receive compensation? Because I’ve moved around 4 times since I’ve gotten that letter, and I’m not entirely sure where it is unfortunately.
2) What regulations of the CFR should I print out and take with me, if any?
 
Ok so my appointment is next Tuesday, I got pretty much all the paperwork besides a couple of things...

1) is it necessary to bring the original mailed letter from the VA saying that we’re rated for our disability and that we’ll receive compensation? Because I’ve moved around 4 times since I’ve gotten that letter, and I’m not entirely sure where it is unfortunately.
2) What regulations of the CFR should I print out and take with me, if any?

1) No, they have that information. They're VA employees with access to your record while they're your counselor.
2) Any you feel are necessary. With that said, they may not necessarily be necessary for the appointment.
 
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1) No, they have that information. They're VA employees with access to your record while they're your counselor.
2) Any you feel are necessary. With that said, they may not necessarily be necessary for the appointment.

The one caveat is that if you are super old like me, my SCD's are actually not in my VRC's system (though my total percentage rating is). I don't know what the cutoff is but unless you got out a long time ago, yes, MusicDOc is correct that they will be able to see what your rating is for.
 
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The one caveat is that if you are super old like me, my SCD's are actually not in my VRC's system (though my total percentage rating is). I don't know what the cutoff is but unless you got out a long time ago, yes, MusicDOc is correct that they will be able to see what your rating is for.

Learn something new every day!
 
Learn something new every day!

When my VRC said to me "I don't even know what you're rated for, look at my screen, it only shows me your percentage," the wheels of mischief starting turning round' in my head; then I thought I better not mess around and lose my full ride to medical school, lol.
 
Anyone buy the Ben Krause kit and was it helpful?

People on the facebook page keep saying to purchase it...
 
Anyone buy the Ben Krause kit and was it helpful?

People on the facebook page keep saying to purchase it...

I bought it and there is nothing secretive in there that isn't in various FB groups or here for free. That said, it is nice to have the bulk of the material condensed into one location so that you can quickly get up to speed on what's going on. I loathe the idea of paying for information that is freely available (especially when it is for fellow disabled vets), but in retrospect, it probably wasn't a complete waste of money. Still, I feel at this point he should have made his money back from whatever time he invested in the project and should make the guide freely available.
 
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I bought it and there is nothing secretive in there that isn't in various FB groups or here for free. That said, it is nice to have the bulk of the material condensed into one location so that you can quickly get up to speed on what's going on. I loathe the idea of paying for information that is freely available (especially when it is for fellow disabled vets), but in retrospect, it probably wasn't a complete waste of money. Still, I feel at this point he should have made his money back from whatever time he invested in the project and should make the guide freely available.

This was the impression I had as well. With enough research and due diligence many should be able to go in prepared.

With that, if someone is brand new to the entitlements and not confident in their approach, I can see having it all laid out within a book. That FB group has enough examples to get an idea of how to prepare.
 
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I just dont get how a VA program can be so against the veteran's interest. Who is running this **** that they go out of their way to make sure you are not eligible? Stikes me as something sinister is going on and the goal is to make you not eligible.
It may be less sinister in that they are mostly trying to get homeless, unemployed, or otherwise impoverished down and out persons some gainful employment so they can live - and are surprised and out of their wheelhouse dealing with someone with multiple viable prospects to make enough to eat and live who wants to pursue a high-level professional career.

Not that you shouldn’t be able to do that - just you’re way far afield from the general voc rehab/cwt/etc caseload.
 
It may be less sinister in that they are mostly trying to get homeless, unemployed, or otherwise impoverished down and out persons some gainful employment so they can live - and are surprised and out of their wheelhouse dealing with someone with multiple viable prospects to make enough to eat and live who wants to pursue a high-level professional career.

Not that you shouldn’t be able to do that - just you’re way far afield from the general voc rehab/cwt/etc caseload.

It is really not out of their wheelhouse. Schools I have been accepted to have people there using voc rehab. My counselor told me at her previous local office got people approved for law school and other professionals schools. None of this should be unfamiliar to any counselor.

I would agree with you if some of the VR&E local offices were not corrupt to their core. You have local offices breaking VA regulations, counselors making medical determinations they are not supposed to be making, numerous errors and broken regulations in documents they send you. Hell, I have an inquiry in from my congressman's offices and senators offices. The VA is supposed to respond to these inquiries within three weeks. The congressman's office is having to escalate the case because the VA refuses to respond to them.
 
The program is broken when whether you get approved or not is counselor dependent. I had zero problem getting approved for medical school with less of a case than other veterans. The only thing working for me was that I was already in medical school. Regardless I walked into the meeting with a counselor who wanted to get me approved for the program and helped me instead of putting up barriers as many posters have given examples of. This is hundreds of thousands of dollars in benefits we're talking about. The whims of some random person with a bachelor's degree should not be what decides it.
 
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Just wanted to chime in on the subjective topic. I was denied 3 times for medical school. My counselor approved me to finish a bachelors, but I would not sign the plan. I was savvy on the process, so when she asked me for 10 job applications and responses, it was ready. One thing that my counselor did not prepare for was when I asked her what I would do if I stayed and did not go... I did not have a job, only denials, which means I wouldn't be able to pay rent and just snowballed her op from there. I already had a place to live and left without an answer; sent an email asking for a transfer to the RO that covers my region. The last detail of hope is that I am an international medical student. I will rotate in the US etc., but justification of an International school vs American is a challenge in itself. It worked out and I was approved. It is all possible. If you give the CFR Title 38 Book G and M28 for Voc-rehab a read, you will find that this program has a lot to offer and can assist you in entrance.
 
Just wanted to chime in on the subjective topic. I was denied 3 times for medical school. My counselor approved me to finish a bachelors, but I would not sign the plan. I was savvy on the process, so when she asked me for 10 job applications and responses, it was ready. One thing that my counselor did not prepare for was when I asked her what I would do if I stayed and did not go... I did not have a job, only denials, which means I wouldn't be able to pay rent and just snowballed her op from there. I already had a place to live and left without an answer; sent an email asking for a transfer to the RO that covers my region. The last detail of hope is that I am an international medical student. I will rotate in the US etc., but justification of an International school vs American is a challenge in itself. It worked out and I was approved. It is all possible. If you give the CFR Title 38 Book G and M28 for Voc-rehab a read, you will find that this program has a lot to offer and can assist you in entrance.
The thing is, you can be a savvy as you want with the program but if your counselor and local office can still find a reason to shut you down. Like making medical determinations regarding your disbility they are not qualified to make. Then when you get your doctor to write a letter in support of you, they just say they don’t think the doctor is write.
 
My meeting is today, wish me luck lol.


Did you guys put everything in a binder or folder?
 
My meeting is today, wish me luck lol.


Did you guys put everything in a binder or folder?

I did, I walked in with a folder ready to go.

At the end of the day, I agree with most other posters in this thread that the process is far from standardized. My only thought is that it is the people that get approved and then fail to complete their IWRP (the rate is staggering last I checked, less than half actually complete their IWRP) that make the counselors salty and unwilling to help. With such high rates of veteran students failing to uphold their end of the bargain, it doesn't surprise me that counselors are skeptical about someone walking through the door saying they want to go to medical school. The VRC who initially approved me did say that the reason he said "no" to most of the people who wanted to do medical school, etc was because they had unrealistic expectations (ie, low GPA's, poor standardized test scores, etc).
 
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Welp, got denied today fellas.

There were a couple reasons why she said she couldn’t approve it. First was because the school I’ll be attending is OOS, and she said that if she approved my package, she would have to send it to the other office in the other state I’ll be living in a few months, and they could either deny it there or just never “review” it in the first place, and I’d be left in limbo basically.

The other reason she mentioned is that she considered me to have an employment handicap, but not an SEH. So therefore with only 16 months of Voc Rehab ( 12 months + 4 months of GI Bill) it wouldn’t cover med school. I also don’t have a primary care VA doctor with records of my disability after leaving the military, so it looked like I wasn’t seeking help for my disability ( I’m rated 30% for anxiety and I didn’t think seeking help was necessary in my case).

She suggested that once I move to the new state and start medical school, I should reapply at the office there, and start seeking a primary care VA doc.


What do you guys suggest? Should I have asked for a new counselor or supervisor, or should reapply once I move?
 
Welp, got denied today fellas.

There were a couple reasons why she said she couldn’t approve it. First was because the school I’ll be attending is OOS, and she said that if she approved my package, she would have to send it to the other office in the other state I’ll be living in a few months, and they could either deny it there or just never “review” it in the first place, and I’d be left in limbo basically.

The other reason she mentioned is that she considered me to have an employment handicap, but not an SEH. So therefore with only 16 months of Voc Rehab ( 12 months + 4 months of GI Bill) it wouldn’t cover med school. I also don’t have a primary care VA doctor with records of my disability after leaving the military, so it looked like I wasn’t seeking help for my disability ( I’m rated 30% for anxiety and I didn’t think seeking help was necessary in my case).

She suggested that once I move to the new state and start medical school, I should reapply at the office there, and start seeking a primary care VA doc.


What do you guys suggest? Should I have asked for a new counselor or supervisor, or should reapply once I move?

It’ll be much easier when you apply within the intended state you will attend for the MD route (this was also a small factor when I was initially denied while in the IDES phase during AD).

Appealing is a very long process. Once you get a new VRC in the state you’ll be going you may request a Skype / phone interview if your more than 50 miles from the counselors location (you have to specifically request it).
 
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It’ll be much easier when you apply within the intended state you will attend for the MD route (this was also a small factor when I was initially denied while in the IDES phase during AD).

Appealing is a very long process. Once you get a new VRC in the state you’ll be going you may request a Skype / phone interview if your more than 50 miles from the counselors location (you have to specifically request it).

Thank you! Should I start seeing a primary care VA doc for my condition as well?
 
Thank you! Should I start seeing a primary care VA doc for my condition as well?

I hadn't seen a VA doctor for any service connected issues (other than dental) for at least 8 years prior to my approval for Ch 31. I had seen civilian docs however for SCD's and did have a letter in-hand from my civilian doctor stating that my health was sufficient to successfully complete medical school and work as a physician in his professional opinion.
 
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Does anyone else think I should start seeing a primary care doc for my SCD's to help build up my medical records? I move OOS for med school in July, right before med school starts, so I want to be prepared for another Voc Rehab meeting soon when I arrive in my new state...
 
Does anyone else think I should start seeing a primary care doc for my SCD's to help build up my medical records? I move OOS for med school in July, right before med school starts, so I want to be prepared for another Voc Rehab meeting soon when I arrive in my new state...

This is exactly what I’m doing
 
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Somewhat related question- but does anyone know what documents and other things my school’s financial aid office needs to get my GI Bill process started? It’s been awhile since I used it, so I can’t remember what I need to do - I also tried reaching the financial aid office but they’re terrible at responding so I’m not sure how to get a hold of them.
 
Somewhat related question- but does anyone know what documents and other things my school’s financial aid office needs to get my GI Bill process started? It’s been awhile since I used it, so I can’t remember what I need to do - I also tried reaching the financial aid office but they’re terrible at responding so I’m not sure how to get a hold of them.

It’s not the financial aid office you see, it’s your “Certifying School Official” That’s appointed on behalf of the Veteran Affairs Regional Office for your university.

You will need to send them your DD-214 along with the Certificate of Eligibility that your VA regional office has sent out to you in the mail. If you don’t have one, log on to your ebenefits portal and select the education tab then follow the prompts for post 9-11 Benefits letter. The following website I have here is an example of what it looks like:


If you need to request it, go to the following portal:


Once you sign in, click on Select-A-Question option. For the subject, type GI Bill Certificate of Eligibility. For the question, type “I am seeking a duplicate certificate of eligibility for post 9-11 to be mailed to me.”

For Product tab, type GI Bill. You’ll see “Category” which is the benefit your eligible for (then select eligibility). Hit submit.

If you’ve used your Benefits before, ebenefits will update the difference to mail to you for your certifying official.
 
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Somewhat related question- but does anyone know what documents and other things my school’s financial aid office needs to get my GI Bill process started? It’s been awhile since I used it, so I can’t remember what I need to do - I also tried reaching the financial aid office but they’re terrible at responding so I’m not sure how to get a hold of them.

Matter of fact, since you’ve used your Benefits before, I believe there’s a faster way for you:

Go to your ebenefits:


1) On the welcome page, select the “Manage your Benefits” option at the bottom of the page.

2) Under the “Manage Benefits” option, select the “Status Tracking” option.

3) In the “Education” block, you should see a link for the Benefits you’re wanting.

4) Select the “Enrollment” status (Post 9/11 GI Bill, Montgomery, etc).

5) Print the page entitled “Education Enrollment” status.

Take that copy and email it to your certifying official along with your DD-214. They should forward it to the financial aid office and VA district of your region.
 
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Hey guys so I'm currently in the same boat and about to attending my first ever Voc Rehab meeting next month in hope to pay for Podiatry School. I currently reside in Texas, but will be attending school in Chicago. Should I not attempt my first meeting in Texas if I'm moving to Chicago? Through all of my research I have not been able to find any information on denials due to relocation.
Also this forum has been a great deal of help to me! Thank you all for the valuable input.
 
As a VA pcp it’s v helpful to know how I can help you. If you want C&P for your SC conditions I’ll just direct you to the VBA. If you just need me to document the symptoms you’re experiencing, but aren’t so much interested in treatment, also helpful to know to avoid wasting both of our time. If you want treatment for your medical conditions - it doesn’t even matter to me whether they’re SC or not. if you’re here eligible for VA care then I’m here to treat you or help you get treatment, regardless of how your problem started, except when it comes time to click yea or nay on whether our visit/the med I prescribed related to your SC condition (the ones that are already adjudicated and displayed, if they’re not then see the VBA cause I can’t help) . Thanks for all of your service.
 
Hey guys so I'm currently in the same boat and about to attending my first ever Voc Rehab meeting next month in hope to pay for Podiatry School. I currently reside in Texas, but will be attending school in Chicago. Should I not attempt my first meeting in Texas if I'm moving to Chicago? Through all of my research I have not been able to find any information on denials due to relocation.
Also this forum has been a great deal of help to me! Thank you all for the valuable input.

I’ve seen a few cases where someone moved and had to fight to keep what they had approved prior to moving.

I’d apply anyway.

Those who had trouble still had some success, and had they not already been approved prior to moving may not have been approved at all.

If you apply now and get it, it increases the likelihood of keeping what was approved.

If you apply now and they say no, well you can reapply when you move and go from there.
 
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Hey guys so I'm currently in the same boat and about to attending my first ever Voc Rehab meeting next month in hope to pay for Podiatry School. I currently reside in Texas, but will be attending school in Chicago. Should I not attempt my first meeting in Texas if I'm moving to Chicago? Through all of my research I have not been able to find any information on denials due to relocation.
Also this forum has been a great deal of help to me! Thank you all for the valuable input.

I’d strongly advise setting up your first appointment within the state you’ll be attending school (unless you feel it’ll be a slam dunk). In times past VRCs have turned down acceptances from one state due to how they “feel” the program works in their state. Especially when it comes to more invested programs (such as any of the healthcare programs on SDN).

I suggest contacting who your counselor would be in Chicago within 45 days of you moving to the district. If you happen to know your soon-to-be-address in Chicago, use that as your residency and request a phone or Skype interview since the location will be over a 50 mile radius (they are mandated to follow this procedure but you must request it).

As MusicDOc said, if your accepted in one state you may get accepted in the other. The advantage of a meeting now is if you get rejected, you can avoid an appeal and just apply in the new state.
 
I’d strongly advise setting up your first appointment within the state you’ll be attending school (unless you feel it’ll be a slam dunk). In times past VRCs have turned down acceptances from one state due to how they “feel” the program works in their state. Especially when it comes to more invested programs (such as any of the healthcare programs on SDN).

I suggest contacting who your counselor would be in Chicago within 45 days of you moving to the district. If you happen to know your soon-to-be-address in Chicago, use that as your residency and request a phone or Skype interview since the location will be over a 50 mile radius (they are mandated to follow this procedure but you must request it).

As MusicDOc said, if your accepted in one state you may get accepted in the other. The advantage of a meeting now is if you get rejected, you can avoid an appeal and just apply in the new state.

Thank yall for the reply. I can't say that my case is a definitive slam dunk after reading all of these threads now. I have certainly done my research and believe I have built a strong case. Im currently 70% with PTSD and Tinnitus which stems from an attack down rage. I was a medic in the army while I was in the service so my argument for Voc Rehab would be civilian medical jobs related to high stress similar to my MOS, such as EMT, Paramedic, or trauma treatment would worsen my current symptoms. I also found some peer reviewed articles showing the high stress and suicide rates from such medical fields over others. I also heard bringing stats from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics comparing hiring potential of my field over the lower educated ones (not knocking here at all!) such as PA or Nurse is advantageous. How does this sound?
Then I think I will go ahead and attend this first meeting and see how it goes. If a denial comes from it do I just not sign anything and request a new counselor in my new state?
 
If a denial comes from it do I just not sign anything and request a new counselor in my new state?

I would avoid an appeal process and just apply to your new state. Reason being, the appealment process for Chapter 31 Benefits has gone through changes:


I linked the changes from Ben Krauses outline of how it must be done (pretty much all on the veteran and no longer assistance).
 
Thank yall for the reply. I can't say that my case is a definitive slam dunk after reading all of these threads now. I have certainly done my research and believe I have built a strong case. Im currently 70% with PTSD and Tinnitus which stems from an attack down rage. I was a medic in the army while I was in the service so my argument for Voc Rehab would be civilian medical jobs related to high stress similar to my MOS, such as EMT, Paramedic, or trauma treatment would worsen my current symptoms. I also found some peer reviewed articles showing the high stress and suicide rates from such medical fields over others. I also heard bringing stats from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics comparing hiring potential of my field over the lower educated ones (not knocking here at all!) such as PA or Nurse is advantageous. How does this sound?
Then I think I will go ahead and attend this first meeting and see how it goes. If a denial comes from it do I just not sign anything and request a new counselor in my new state?

We have similar backgrounds but I was denied vocrehab. If you look in my history I spelled it out a bit more specifically there. However, can you pm me your studies? I have a third meeting next week and am looking for any ammo.
 
We have similar backgrounds but I was denied vocrehab. If you look in my history I spelled it out a bit more specifically there. However, can you pm me your studies? I have a third meeting next week and am looking for any ammo.
I tried to send you a personal message and it told me that I am unable to start a conversation with you?? I am new to this site and dont know how everything works unfortunately...
 
Update on my process. I went ahead and attended my first meeting. I got approved with a EH not a SEH. My concern now comes that I am only entitled to 12 more months, due to me using majority of my post 9/11 already. I still have my next appointment coming up in a few weeks where me and my councilor will go over my job proposal write up and discuss further on how to receive an extension. Everyone I have spoken to has said that extensions only happen if you have a SEH, but I have found legal documentation saying otherwise. Have any of yall been in this position as well?
I'm posting the legal info I found below for extension beyond 48 months. (paragraph 3, section 3).

§ 21.78 Approving more than 48 months of rehabilitation.

(a)General. Neither the basic period of entitlement which may be authorized for a program of rehabilitation under Chapter 31 alone, nor a combination of entitlement of Chapter 31 and other programs listed in § 21.4020 shall exceed 48 months except as indicated in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section.


(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3695)

(b)Employment handicap. A rehabilitation program for a veteran with an employment handicap may only be extended beyond 48 months when:


(1) The veteran previously completed training for a suitable occupation but the veteran's service-connected disability has worsened to the point that he or she is unable to perform the duties of the occupation for which training had been provided, and a period of training in the same or a different field is required. An extension beyond 48 months under Chapter 31 alone shall be authorized for this purpose.


(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3105(c)(1)(A))

(2) The occupation in which the veteran previously completed training is found to be unsuitable because of the veteran's abilities and employment handicap. An extension beyond 48 months under Chapter 31 alone shall be approved for this purpose.


(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3105(c)(1)(B))

(3) The veteran previously used education benefit entitlement under other programs administered by VA, and the additional period of assistance to be provided under Chapter 31 which the veteran needs to become employable will result in more than 48 months being used under all VA education programs, under these conditions the number of months necessary to complete the program may be authorized under Chapter 31, provided that the length of the extension will not result in authorization of more than 48 months under Chapter 31 alone.


(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3695)

(4) A veteran in an approved Chapter 31 program has elected payment of benefits at the Chapter 30 educational assistance rate. The 48 month limitation may be exceeded only:


(i) To the extent that the entitlement in excess of 48 months does not exceed the entitlement previously used by the veteran in a course at the secondary school level under § 21.4235 before December 31, 1989, or


(ii) If the veteran is in a course on a term, quarter, or semester basis which began before the 36 month limitation on Chapter 30 entitlement was reached, and completion of the course will be possible by permitting the veteran to complete the training under Chapter 31.


(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3013, 3695; Pub. L. 98-525)

(5) The assistance to be provided in excess of 48 months consists only of a period of employment assistance (see § 21.73).


(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3105(b))

(c)Serious employment handicap. The duration of a rehabilitation program for a veteran with a serious employment handicap may be extended beyond 48 months under Chapter 31 for the number of months necessary to complete a rehabilitation program under the following conditions:


(1) To enable the veteran to complete a period of rehabilitation to the point of employability;


(2) To provide an extended evaluation in cases in which the total period needed for an extended evaluation and for rehabilitation to the point of employability would exceed 48 months;


(3) To provide a program of independent living services, including cases in which achievement of a vocational goal becomes feasible during or following a program of independent living services;


(4) Following rehabilitation to the point of employability:


(i) The veteran has been unable to secure employment in the occupation for which training has been provided despite intensive efforts on the part of the Department of Veterans Affairs and the veteran, and a period of retraining or additional training is needed;


(ii) The skills which the veteran developed in training for an occupation in which he or she was employed are no longer adequate to maintain employment in that field and a period of retraining is needed;


(iii) The veteran's service-connected disability has worsened to the point that he or she is unable to perform the duties of the occupation for which the veteran has been trained, and a period of training in the same or different field is required;


(iv) The occupation in which the veteran previously completed training is found to be unsuitable due to the veteran's abilities and employment handicap.


(5) The assistance to be provided in excess of 48 months consists, only of a period of employment assistance. (see § 21.73).


(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3105(c)(2))
 
I agree with you on the verbiage. I have personally never seen it done but I will pose this question to one of our VRC's we are in contact with and ask about the applicability.
 
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I agree with you on the verbiage. I have personally never seen it done but I will pose this question to one of our VRC's we are in contact with and ask about the applicability.
That would be very helpful, thank you!
 
That would be very helpful, thank you!

So the response I've gotten is that, while this is in the CFR, that there is verbiage in the M28R (the VRC "bible") that directly contradicts it. I haven't had time to parse the text to see exactly what that is, as I'm ~ 72 hrs away from moving for med school, but once I get settled in I'll either find it myself or try to see if the VRC can provide further clarification. The thoughts from other experienced vets I've talked to is that this is something that could probably be pressed upon an appeal and won, but nobody really wants to wait that long.
 
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So I just realized I’ll still have a few days of my GI Bill after this upcoming fall semester. Even if I don’t get approved for Voc Rehab, does that mean I’ll still have my spring semester covered for next year as well?
 
So I just realized I’ll still have a few days of my GI Bill after this upcoming fall semester. Even if I don’t get approved for Voc Rehab, does that mean I’ll still have my spring semester covered for next year as well?
Yes in terms of tuition and fees being paid. I'm not sure about the BAH payment though. Maybe someone else will chime in to clarify if that lasts only for the days you had left, or if it lasts for the certified semester that was just paid for.
 
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So the response I've gotten is that, while this is in the CFR, that there is verbiage in the M28R (the VRC "bible") that directly contradicts it. I haven't had time to parse the text to see exactly what that is, as I'm ~ 72 hrs away from moving for med school, but once I get settled in I'll either find it myself or try to see if the VRC can provide further clarification. The thoughts from other experienced vets I've talked to is that this is something that could probably be pressed upon an appeal and won, but nobody really wants to wait that long.
That makes a lot of sense. Everyone I have talked to says you cant get an extension with a EH, but after I share the CFR they are kinda dumbfounded and then don't have any answer. I have my next appoint next week where I turn in and go over my career proposal so i'll bring it up with my councilor as well to see what he has to say. I start podiatry school in August so I'm quite sure I'm going to have to take out a loan to cover the first semester no matter what and then appeal if need be. If I can win in the long run due to this CRF then all the back pay should cover majority if not all of my differed loans.
Also good luck on your first few weeks! I'm very excited to start myself in August.
 
So I just realized I’ll still have a few days of my GI Bill after this upcoming fall semester. Even if I don’t get approved for Voc Rehab, does that mean I’ll still have my spring semester covered for next year as well?
I cant exactly answer that one, but wouldn't the STEM extension on the GI Bill be in place at that time which you could use to cover all fees for one more semester?
 
I cant exactly answer that one, but wouldn't the STEM extension on the GI Bill be in place at that time which you could use to cover all fees for one more semester?
I just looked, unfortunately I think the STEM extension is only for undergraduate degrees. I might try to apply anyway lol
 
So I just realized I’ll still have a few days of my GI Bill after this upcoming fall semester. Even if I don’t get approved for Voc Rehab, does that mean I’ll still have my spring semester covered for next year as well?

For your case and according to the VA rules, once you run out of GI Bill benefits during at least 1 day of a new semester, they will continue to pay you through to the end of the semester. This also includes your BAH allowance. Keep in mind though (and I don't believe you have anything to worry about based on your TIS and current graduation date), the only time your benefits would cease to pay out tuition or housing allowance is if you hit your "Delimitation Date." That is, you hit the 15 year mark to the day from your discharge date. By law, the VA cannot continue paying you.

Now, as of now and it is currently pending changes by 2020: If you have at least ONE day left of your post 9-11 GI Bill, you will 100% get your housing allowance based off of the Post 9-11 Housing Zip Code Regulation and NOT the Voc-Rehab ruling (which is much much lower). As I said though, the pending change is that by 2020, all veterans that used up their Post 9-11 but qualify for Voc-Rehab will automatically get the Housing Rate of the Post 9-11 and the stipend allowance from Voc-Rehab that currently exists will disappear.

***EDIT*** please note the change of the Delimitation Date to the "Forever GI Bill"


From the VA hyperlink:

"The law removes the time limitation for the use of Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits for individuals whose last discharge or release from active duty is on or after January 1, 2013, children of deceased Servicemembers who first become entitled to Post-9/11 GI Bill program benefits on or after January 1, 2013, and all Fry spouses. All others remain subject to the current 15-year time limitation for using their Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits."
 
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I cant exactly answer that one, but wouldn't the STEM extension on the GI Bill be in place at that time which you could use to cover all fees for one more semester?

So this is a new clause being put into action as of August 1st of this year: It is called the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship Program:


In a nutshell, it will add an additional 9 months to a STEM degree or a max of $30,000 beyond the GI Bill benefits.

Here's the requirements from the VA website link I posted above:

✔ You are pursuing a degree in a STEM field
✔ You have completed at least 60 standard or 90 quarter credit hours toward your degree;
✔ You have or will soon (within 180 days of application) exhaust your entitlement for the Post-9/11 GI Bill program;
✔ Your post-secondary degree requires more than 128 semester (or 192 quarter) credit for completion in a standard, undergraduate college degree

So, it seems for the premed route this is a great start. However, any professional program such as Med School would seem to be beyond reach as this is a target for undergraduate level and/or teaching certification. The exception to this may be pharmacy school programs for students who did the 2 year min requirement and jumped straight to pharmacy (but the cap is $30,000 nonetheless). Interesting to see how this is easily applied for those in limbo between undergrad GI Bill and waiting for Voc-Rehab approval.....
 
Does anyone know if I actually need a VA ID card? I have my first appointment with a VA doctor at an outpatient clinic in a couple weeks, but when I called asking if I’ll be getting an ID card there, they said I have to get that somewhere else...
 
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