Veterans, the GI Bill (Ch 30 and 33/ Post-9/11), and Veteran Readiness/Vocational Rehabilitation (Ch 31/VRE)

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What is an example of proving feasibility in vocational rehab? Is it proving a job doesnt affect your disabilities? Also whats the request to gain approval? Is that approval and a higher level?

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What is an example of proving feasibility in vocational rehab? Is it proving a job doesnt affect your disabilities? Also whats the request to gain approval? Is that approval and a higher level?

The general requirements are that A) it doesn't aggravate your SCD's and B) that the job is consistent with the veteran's skills, aptitudes, interests, and abilities. This means if you can't demonstrate the aptitude for a job they won't approve it. This is the reason a lot of people won't get plans approved for med school (or other professional graduate schools). Aside from assessing prior academic performance, you will be required to take a skills assessment test before meeting with a VRC.

Regard approval, once you have submitted your request through ebenefits, you should receive an appt within approximately 30 days. At that meeting, the VRC will typically give you a decision on your eligibility for Ch 31. If you are found entitled, then typically you will be given a small homework task including gathering BLS reports for your chosen career (indicating that there are a need and stable job market for your career), submitting school tuition reports and degree plans, etc. After that, your IWRP will be generated and the process begins.
 
The general requirements are that A) it doesn't aggravate your SCD's and B) that the job is consistent with the veteran's skills, aptitudes, interests, and abilities. This means if you can't demonstrate the aptitude for a job they won't approve it. This is the reason a lot of people won't get plans approved for med school (or other professional graduate schools). Aside from assessing prior academic performance, you will be required to take a skills assessment test before meeting with a VRC.

Regard approval, once you have submitted your request through ebenefits, you should receive an appt within approximately 30 days. At that meeting, the VRC will typically give you a decision on your eligibility for Ch 31. If you are found entitled, then typically you will be given a small homework task including gathering BLS reports for your chosen career (indicating that there are a need and stable job market for your career), submitting school tuition reports and degree plans, etc. After that, your IWRP will be generated and the process begins.


Oh ok. I did everything in listed in your approval section. i wrote a proposal addressing everything you wrote in the first section as well. My counselor said he would be reviewing my case and will need to be sure my plan was "feasible and assess the request to gain approval to draft a plan". I also went through the M28R and searched "feasible" and annotated everything that mention what is/isnt feasible and the determination process specifically for SEH. I know counselors can deviate from the M28R assuming people dont know what it says so I wanted to be sure all my bases were covered. thank you for your clear response.
 
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Oh ok. I did everything in listed in your approval section. i wrote a proposal addressing everything you wrote in the first section as well. My counselor said he would be reviewing my case and will need to be sure my plan was "feasible and assess the request to gain approval to draft a plan". I also went through the M28R and searched "feasible" and annotated everything that mention what is/isnt feasible and the determination process specifically for SEH. I know counselors can deviate from the M28R assuming people dont know what it says so I wanted to be sure all my bases were covered. thank you for your clear response.

I think a lot of the disconnect comes from areas where there seem to be incongruencies between the M28R and CFR. In my mind, the CFR trumps the M28R and I would be willing to wager that in an actual VBA hearing that the CFR would be the considered the governing document. It would all be so much simpler if they just made a determination off of what the CFR says, which is actually quite straight forward.
 
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I think a lot of the disconnect comes from areas where there seem to be incongruencies between the M28R and CFR. In my mind, the CFR trumps the M28R and I would be willing to wager that in an actual VBA hearing that the CFR would be the considered the governing document. It would all be so much simpler if they just made a determination off of what the CFR says, which is actually quite straight forward.

I thought the M28R explained the CFR... ill go through the CFR just to be sure i understand and everything is clear.
 
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Does post 911 GI bill pay for health insurance? (Like , student kind that school provides ).

This is going to depend how the business office bills your tuition and fees. If the university sends out a letter stating that the student health insurance is required to be purchased by all students, your post 9/11 will cover it. If your university states that it is optional and separates it as an optional billing, the GI Bill wont cover it. This is one of those things where I'd check with the office that certifies your enrollment to the Veteran Affairs. Specifically, your Certifying Official.
 
As far as I'm aware, the GI Bill will not cover health insurance regardless of requirement unless something changed. Voc Rehab will IF its stated that that particular insurance is required and not waiverable, which is not common - but if on Voc Rehab, you have VA coverage completely until the program approved is over (including dental to some degree), and many places if not all accept VA coverage in lieu of health insurance.



Edit: 7/21/21: See Post #438 by @chssoccer7

"I know this is old, but just wanted to provide an update in case anyone scrolls this forums looking for info like I do.

I was able to get the GI Bill to cover my insurance when i start school this upcoming semester, it just has to be REQUIRED for all students. If it is optional or only required for some subsection of students, they won't cover it."
 
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Can anyone tell me how much BAH I'm supposed to get? I'm confused how they've broken down the credit hours in reference to specific dates at my school

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Hi all,

I was approved for the Voc Rehab program about 2 months ago, now I'm in the process of getting the certifying done. I gave them all the information and it all looks pretty good, one nice point was that I thought the Voc Rehab subsistence allowance did not factor into my financial aid package or count toward the amount of loans I could take out/CoA. Well earlier in the week I got an email from my school's financial aid department asking for the contact information for my Voc Rehab counselor, and the exact amount I'm going to receive every month for the subsistence allowance. I read up a bit and it looks like they're likely trying to prevent an overaward, but I am super concerned that they will calculate that I'm fully covered (VR&E tuition + subsistance allowance cover full CoA) and I won't be able to take out any additional loans. Anyone have any insight or experience in dealing with this?

I emailed the financial aid office but haven't heard back yet, hoping this is just for documentation.
 
Hi all,

I was approved for the Voc Rehab program about 2 months ago, now I'm in the process of getting the certifying done. I gave them all the information and it all looks pretty good, one nice point was that I thought the Voc Rehab subsistence allowance did not factor into my financial aid package or count toward the amount of loans I could take out/CoA. Well earlier in the week I got an email from my school's financial aid department asking for the contact information for my Voc Rehab counselor, and the exact amount I'm going to receive every month for the subsistence allowance. I read up a bit and it looks like they're likely trying to prevent an overaward, but I am super concerned that they will calculate that I'm fully covered (VR&E tuition + subsistance allowance cover full CoA) and I won't be able to take out any additional loans. Anyone have any insight or experience in dealing with this?

I emailed the financial aid office but haven't heard back yet, hoping this is just for documentation.

Your Chapter 31 Benefits should have no affect on the amount of financial aid you qualify for. To be specific, any pell-grant or federal loans should not be adjusted based on any entitlement you have with the Veteran Affairs Department. The only real say a program could argue is scholarship money but nothing else.

A few weeks ago I spoke with my financial aid advisor concerning this matter (due to myself going from post 9-11 + Yellow Ribbon Program to VR&E). With the assistance of my certifying official, I was able to decline the "full amount" I qualified for as a professional graduate student but given permission to allocate any specific amount I may need throughout the fiscal school year. Matter of fact, I qualified for another loan called the Health Professional Student Loan (HPSL) which gives me 0% interest until graduation (4% annually after graduation). I received the associated amount without it interfering with my tuition cost coverage by Voc-Rehab. I literally pulled all of it out and sent it to my online savings account - CDs just to accumulate interest for myself before I send it all back to my student account before graduation (and hopefully keep a good amount of interest pocketed).

Point being, Chapter 31 should have no affect on your federal financial aid package.
 
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Hey guys, I had a couple questions regarding the Yellow Ribbon program... I wanted to see if someone here could answer these questions first before I annoy the financial aid office at my school.

I just received my yellow ribbon money a few days ago. According to this website, I should have gotten $5000: FL State Yellow Ribbon Program Information 2018 – 2019 - Education and Training

But only $4300 got transferred to my school. Of that $4300, only $4200 went into my checking account (refund).

Should I ask the financial aid office about this or is it normal to receive less than the max contribution?
 
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Hey guys, I had a couple questions regarding the Yellow Ribbon program... I wanted to see if someone here could answer these questions first before I annoy the financial aid office at my school.

I just received my yellow ribbon money a few days ago. According to this website, I should have gotten $5000: FL State Yellow Ribbon Program Information 2018 – 2019 - Education and Training

But only $4300 got transferred to my school. Of that $4300, only $4200 went into my checking account (refund).

Should I ask the financial aid office about this or is it normal to receive less than the max contribution?

Depending on the school, there is a max cap (or unlimited) of the number of students that qualify for the Yellow Ribbon Program. However, that has no hinderance on the amount of $ you are eligible for. It's a 50/50 contract between the school and the VA with any cost over the yearly GI Bill Tuition threshold being split and paid toward your tuition. It is possible that between all funding of entitlements, scholarships, loans, and this program that this is merely the receipt of what is left over. If you look on your student account it should give an explicit detail of how and where the money was deposited / paid for.

If it doesn't add up talk to your certifying financial official usually located within the business office. Really the only refund check you should be getting via electric deposit is your BAH. All else should be just enough to cover the tuition. If that's the case then tuck that money in your pocket plus the extra $1k for book and supplies (assuming your going in with the Post 9-11 + yellow ribbon).
 
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^ yep. For instance, at my undergrad, it was limited to 20 students, up to $3600. If you weren't one of the 20 students on first come first serve basis, you didn't get yellow ribbon that year. I don't know about how much was paid out to anyone receiving it, but I received the full amount when I did get it (3600, thus 7200 total after the VA matched the school).
 
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Can we still get the GI Bill $1200 refund, after completing a VocRehab program?
 
Can we still get the GI Bill $1200 refund, after completing a VocRehab program?

Unfortunately not. It only happens when exhausting the GI Bill, from actual GI Bill use. If you were to exhaust GI Bill and then use Voc rehab, technically yes, but it would have come already before you'd complete voc rehab. That, and it's better to go right to voc rehab anyway because by having left over GI Bill, you qualify for 9/11 BAH in place of the flat rate stipend. The additional money there adds up to more than the $1200 anyway when compared to the flat rate in MOST cases (save for very low CoL places where BAH or near the same and for people with a lot of dependents where the flat rate increases per dependent regardless of location, especially in a low CoL place).
 
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Hey guys, I just started my 2nd year of med school and I applied for Voc Rehab for the 2nd time about a month ago. I'm OOS for my school..... the first time I applied for Voc Rehab was back when I was in my home state before med school started. My counselor at the time told me I needed to reapply once I started school OOS. Well, I haven't received any appointment date in the mail so far since reapplying a month ago, and I'm already on my last semester of GI Bill benefits. What do I do?
 
Have the certifying official ensure that you do not run out of benefits. You need at least 1 day of GI Bill benefits to qualify for VRE.
 
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Hey guys, I just started my 2nd year of med school and I applied for Voc Rehab for the 2nd time about a month ago. I'm OOS for my school..... the first time I applied for Voc Rehab was back when I was in my home state before med school started. My counselor at the time told me I needed to reapply once I started school OOS. Well, I haven't received any appointment date in the mail so far since reapplying a month ago, and I'm already on my last semester of GI Bill benefits. What do I do?

VR&E has moved in-person meetings with appointed counselors and their assistant program outlines (orientation, interviews, IWRP updates) all online. Make sure you work with your Certifying Official within the business office to preserve your Chapter 33 benefit so as to safe-keep ONE day at the least. During this time, log into E-benefits (create a DS login so as to have the upmost messages sent to you) and check the status of what you submitted. Look at the date it was done and as long as it falls within 4-6 weeks give your local VR&E district a cold call for placement purposes (you can check location online). They should be able to place you rather quickly given the online mandated appointments vs in house orientation. Be sure to mention you are requesting a "Scope Assessment" that needs to be done prior to your appointment. That should push you to the front of the line.

Have your ducks in a row (transcripts, disability rating(s) - associated SCDs). Always lead off with your acceptance letter despite it being a year ago. Quote the CFR title that talks about interests, abilities, and aptitudes (Look here for CFR details) and remind the VRC the reasoning of your switch to medical school and how it related to a possible debilitating condition that would allow you a minimal threshold income if you were to drop to part time.

Your chances are against you (preapproval for a cap cost for OOS institutes), but some advice when starting the process again: Don't let them rush you. Be professional but direct if you want an extension. Unless you are ready to prove a Severe Employment Handicap (SEH), you most likely will only get an approved 12 month extension due to the 48 month rule the VA must abide by when assisting in terms of educational benefits (ie Post 9-11 + VR&E can only add up to a total of 48 months). They will count your Chapter 33 month benefits against you should you qualify for the VR&E extension.

I am sure it goes without saying, but the reason for you saving at least 1 day of Chapter 33 benefits is so you can still receive your BAH at the post 9-11 housing rate instead of the much lower Chapter 31 stipend rate (the difference can be 1k - 3k per month).

Good Luck.
 
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Hey guys, I just started my 2nd year of med school and I applied for Voc Rehab for the 2nd time about a month ago. I'm OOS for my school..... the first time I applied for Voc Rehab was back when I was in my home state before med school started. My counselor at the time told me I needed to reapply once I started school OOS. Well, I haven't received any appointment date in the mail so far since reapplying a month ago, and I'm already on my last semester of GI Bill benefits. What do I do?

Paying OOS tuition is going to make it exponentially harder to get an approval because anything over 25K annually requires approval for "high cost of attendance." Flying in under that number was one of the key factors that allowed me to get my approval since my VRC didn't need anyone else to sign off on it.
 
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Have the certifying official ensure that you do not run out of benefits. You need at least 1 day of GI Bill benefits to qualify for VRE.

To clarify, you need 1 day left of GI Bill to qualify for the BAH rather than the standard stipend provided by VRE. You do not need any days left of GI Bill to qualify for VRE itself.
 
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To clarify, you need 1 day left of GI Bill to qualify for the BAH rather than the standard stipend provided by VRE. You do not need any days left of GI Bill to qualify for VRE itself.
Thank you for the correction! It’s been a while since I have gone through the process.
 
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I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice in my situation. Currently I'm attending school in Eastern Tennessee, but home of record is in South Texas. I'm entering my last semester of undergrad in January and will graduate in May. My plan is to go to DPT (physical therapy) school in San Antonio Texas, which is in a different region of my home of record. I just got done with my initial meeting via phone call for Chpt. 31, and the counselor told me he couldn't approve me for grad school because that was outside his jurisdiction, but he did approve me for the remainder of my undergrad, which seems a little weird to me. I was already planning of finishing my bachelors with my GI bill, so that wasn't an issue. My questions are: Is it more beneficial to finish this last semester on the voc rehab, and would it affect my voc rehab benefits if I'm able to get it during grad school? And secondly, I'm considering using a friends address in San Antonio as my current address to start applying for benefits over there, since that's basically what the counselor told me to do. Does anyone have experience doing this?
 
I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice in my situation. Currently I'm attending school in Eastern Tennessee, but home of record is in South Texas. I'm entering my last semester of undergrad in January and will graduate in May. My plan is to go to DPT (physical therapy) school in San Antonio Texas, which is in a different region of my home of record. I just got done with my initial meeting via phone call for Chpt. 31, and the counselor told me he couldn't approve me for grad school because that was outside his jurisdiction, but he did approve me for the remainder of my undergrad, which seems a little weird to me. I was already planning of finishing my bachelors with my GI bill, so that wasn't an issue. My questions are: Is it more beneficial to finish this last semester on the voc rehab, and would it affect my voc rehab benefits if I'm able to get it during grad school? And secondly, I'm considering using a friends address in San Antonio as my current address to start applying for benefits over there, since that's basically what the counselor told me to do. Does anyone have experience doing this?
I would wait until you get to dpt school. Apply for Voc rehab there (hopefully with a different counselor). Even if it takes several months for approval, they will back pay tuition and fees.I wouldn’t recommend lying about your address.
 
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I agree. All counselors are different and you didn’t get a good one. When you’re in SA apply again and do NOT take no for an answer. If they tell you that they won’t approve it because it goes over your 48 months, let them know that you know for a fact that’s not true. They have a lot of control and can pretty much approve anything.
 
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I would wait until you get to dpt school. Apply for Voc rehab there (hopefully with a different counselor). Even if it takes several months for approval, they will back pay tuition and fees.I wouldn’t recommend lying about your address.
I'm considering doing that, the only thing that worries me is being able to pay for housing and living expenses while I'm there. The counselor told me it wasn't too much of an issue to use a temporary address. What aggravates me the most is how this is do dependent on the counselor. If I'd been in his region, he would have approved me right away. Now I have to play ball with another counselor who could be on the opposite end of the spectrum.
 
The housing stipend is based off of the schools address, not your home address. If you have any gi Bill left when you start the program, then are approved for Voc rehab, you can get the e5 bah amount. Otherwise it will be the low voc rehab stipend
 
I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice in my situation. Currently I'm attending school in Eastern Tennessee, but home of record is in South Texas. I'm entering my last semester of undergrad in January and will graduate in May. My plan is to go to DPT (physical therapy) school in San Antonio Texas, which is in a different region of my home of record. I just got done with my initial meeting via phone call for Chpt. 31, and the counselor told me he couldn't approve me for grad school because that was outside his jurisdiction, but he did approve me for the remainder of my undergrad, which seems a little weird to me. I was already planning of finishing my bachelors with my GI bill, so that wasn't an issue. My questions are: Is it more beneficial to finish this last semester on the voc rehab, and would it affect my voc rehab benefits if I'm able to get it during grad school? And secondly, I'm considering using a friends address in San Antonio as my current address to start applying for benefits over there, since that's basically what the counselor told me to do. Does anyone have experience doing this?

Chapter 31 (now changed from Voc-Rehab to Veteran-Readiness & Employment Program) would be very difficult to get approved twice: once for undergrad, once for grad school. The purpose behind the program is to present itself as an employment track and not an education track (although all of us use it for school).

To be approved, I assume you applied on e-benefits and scheduled a phone appointment with your present counselor. He/She is correct that you can switch over to Chapter 31 for the remainder of your undergrad, but I highly discourage this. You will need to finish an Individual Written Rehabilitation Plan (IWRP) once your counselor determines you are approved for the remainder of your "current" education. The IWRP would only state that your end goal is employment upon graduation of undergrad. It cannot state that the track is merely a pre-req for physical therapy school and as a result the program will continue to cover your schooling. Since the schooling is in a different location, you would have to re-apply for the program and convince the new counselor as to why you need the assistance a "second" time since it is not related to the worsening of your disability claims. Also (and this is tricky and sensitive), if you cross-over from GI Bill to Chapter 31 and graduate, for every day you used Chapter 31, it takes away from your GI Bill. Since you stated your GI Bill would have ran out by the time you graduate, you would have forfeited the remainder of you GI Bill upon graduating with Chapter 31. AND (sadly) if you graduate with Chapter 31, that is the end of it. Chances of a second trial with Chapter 31 is out the window.

The truth is, you can only use 48-months of total education benefits with the GI Bill + VR&E combined (36 months of GI Bill + 12 month extension with VR&E). However, an exception to this rule is if you qualify of having a serious employment handicap (SEH) which is that your disabilities are so severe and aggravated, that you need to do a "change-of-career" in order to better suit the needs of yourself and your dependence (ie go from undergrad to physical therapy). If you qualify for this, you can use VR&E beyond the 48 month rule. However, this is very very difficult to do for those pursuing higher education ( I was turned down twice myself before finally getting the approval for pharmacy school).

To sum it all up, it is very difficult to be re-approved for VR&E if you use it in undergrad. You not only forfeit the remainder of your GI Bill, but your shot of using VR&E at its full capacity a second-time is diminished. The best option is to save at least ONE DAY of your GI Bill and then apply for VR&E with your reasonings for the higher education (ie disability getting worse and cannot work with current credentials despite getting an undergrad degree). If you save at least 1 day of current GI Bill, AND you get approved for your VR&E, you will get paid at the higher housing rate provided by your GI Bill (VR&E has a very low monthly housing stipend). Should you be denied VR&E initially, you can reclaim the paperwork and appeal. Should you eventually get accepted, they will back-pay you from the day you applied at the beginning of school rather than the day you got accepted in the VR&E program. However, without that SEH sticker on your application, you will only be approved for 12 months of VR&E for physical therapy, not the full time in school (remember, 48-month rule).

This is a lot of information but I hope it is clear enough to at least get your decision started on how to approach this. Unfortunately, many counselors are uneducated on the new rules, or are set in their old ways and will deny anyone who already has criteria (degree) and not give them a second thought. It's a delicate process and is much harder for healthcare professionals to get approved than anyone else. If you have additional questions don't be afraid to ask. It's cutthroat with certain counselors but there is a certain way to approach the process without getting turned away.
 
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Have one month left of ch 33, was just approved for ch 31 for my final undergrad semester and 4 yrs of med school!!
 
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Have one month left of ch 33, was just approved for ch 31 for my final undergrad semester and 4 yrs of med school!!

When you do your Individual Written Rehabilitation Plan (IWRP) be sure it mentions that the program carries from undergrad to med school as a bridge assessment for employment so you don't get cut-off or lost in the transition of studies when it comes for them to pay for medical school (then keep a copy).

and Congratulations!
 
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Chapter 31 (now changed from Voc-Rehab to Veteran-Readiness & Employment Program) would be very difficult to get approved twice: once for undergrad, once for grad school. The purpose behind the program is to present itself as an employment track and not an education track (although all of us use it for school).

To be approved, I assume you applied on e-benefits and scheduled a phone appointment with your present counselor. He/She is correct that you can switch over to Chapter 31 for the remainder of your undergrad, but I highly discourage this. You will need to finish an Individual Written Rehabilitation Plan (IWRP) once your counselor determines you are approved for the remainder of your "current" education. The IWRP would only state that your end goal is employment upon graduation of undergrad. It cannot state that the track is merely a pre-req for physical therapy school and as a result the program will continue to cover your schooling. Since the schooling is in a different location, you would have to re-apply for the program and convince the new counselor as to why you need the assistance a "second" time since it is not related to the worsening of your disability claims. Also (and this is tricky and sensitive), if you cross-over from GI Bill to Chapter 31 and graduate, for every day you used Chapter 31, it takes away from your GI Bill. Since you stated your GI Bill would have ran out by the time you graduate, you would have forfeited the remainder of you GI Bill upon graduating with Chapter 31. AND (sadly) if you graduate with Chapter 31, that is the end of it. Chances of a second trial with Chapter 31 is out the window.

The truth is, you can only use 48-months of total education benefits with the GI Bill + VR&E combined (36 months of GI Bill + 12 month extension with VR&E). However, an exception to this rule is if you qualify of having a serious employment handicap (SEH) which is that your disabilities are so severe and aggravated, that you need to do a "change-of-career" in order to better suit the needs of yourself and your dependence (ie go from undergrad to physical therapy). If you qualify for this, you can use VR&E beyond the 48 month rule. However, this is very very difficult to do for those pursuing higher education ( I was turned down twice myself before finally getting the approval for pharmacy school).

To sum it all up, it is very difficult to be re-approved for VR&E if you use it in undergrad. You not only forfeit the remainder of your GI Bill, but your shot of using VR&E at its full capacity a second-time is diminished. The best option is to save at least ONE DAY of your GI Bill and then apply for VR&E with your reasonings for the higher education (ie disability getting worse and cannot work with current credentials despite getting an undergrad degree). If you save at least 1 day of current GI Bill, AND you get approved for your VR&E, you will get paid at the higher housing rate provided by your GI Bill (VR&E has a very low monthly housing stipend). Should you be denied VR&E initially, you can reclaim the paperwork and appeal. Should you eventually get accepted, they will back-pay you from the day you applied at the beginning of school rather than the day you got accepted in the VR&E program. However, without that SEH sticker on your application, you will only be approved for 12 months of VR&E for physical therapy, not the full time in school (remember, 48-month rule).

This is a lot of information but I hope it is clear enough to at least get your decision started on how to approach this. Unfortunately, many counselors are uneducated on the new rules, or are set in their old ways and will deny anyone who already has criteria (degree) and not give them a second thought. It's a delicate process and is much harder for healthcare professionals to get approved than anyone else. If you have additional questions don't be afraid to ask. It's cutthroat with certain counselors but there is a certain way to approach the process without getting turned away.
Thanks for the reply, that's a huge help. I didn't see this till today, but luckily I asked to finish my undergrad with just the GI Bill and will be reapplying for Chpt. 31 soon for my graduate program.

Have one month left of ch 33, was just approved for ch 31 for my final undergrad semester and 4 yrs of med school!!
Congrats man that's huge!
 
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Happy to say I've just been approved for VRE for med school AND residency! This on top of being accepted to my #1 school choice that is a short drive from my house is an amazing feeling.
 
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Need advice, I was approved for VR&E for medical school. I received a full tuition scholarship at a higher ranked school, which I want to use as a negotiation factor for a full scholarship at my personal top choice school where I was also accepted. Should I negotiate for a scholarship, or just use VR&E? (I know VR&E gives monthly stipends but I get nervous thinking that it may revoke it for some reason).
 
Happy to say I've just been approved for VRE for med school AND residency! This on top of being accepted to my #1 school choice that is a short drive from my house is an amazing feeling.
How were you approved for residency? You’d be getting paid and is considered an “entry level position?”
 
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I need some input. I was approved for VRE for medical school. I also just received a full ride scholarship (tuition, housing, transportation, insurance). I don't know which route to go. I'm married with three kids and money is tight, so if I could possibly use both and get some money back, that would be amazing. Is this even possible? (I understand that this may come off as greedy, but I'm broke lol!)
 
Try and see if you can swing it, but expect the worst and hope for the best.
 
How were you approved for residency? You’d be getting paid and is considered an “entry level position?”

Yeah, I definitely didn't get that. I used two years of leftover GI Bill during residency which I guess is about the same coverage and then it ran out. Tried to apply the STEM extension but was refused even on appeal. The extra tax free cash during residency was super nice though and helped me build up some savings.
 
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How were you approved for residency? You’d be getting paid and is considered an “entry level position?”
My new counselor (I had to appeal twice and get a new counselor each time) said the legislation for VRE mandates the veteran is only released from the program when they have suitable and PERMANENT employment. Since residency is always temporary and is still considered part of training, she made sure my goal says "residency trained attending physician." On the 28-8872 form, objective 3 talks about attending and completing residency as part of the program. (part 1 and 2 are about medical school and continuing medical care for my disability).
 
My new counselor (I had to appeal twice and get a new counselor each time) said the legislation for VRE mandates the veteran is only released from the program when they have suitable and PERMANENT employment. Since residency is always temporary and is still considered part of training, she made sure my goal says "residency trained attending physician." On the 28-8872 form, objective 3 talks about attending and completing residency as part of the program. (part 1 and 2 are about medical school and continuing medical care for my disability).

Nice! Makes sense but I guess the ship has sailed for me. It would be nice if there were consistent standards across the program, but that would require some common sense by the VA.
 
Nice! Makes sense but I guess the ship has sailed for me. It would be nice if there were consistent standards across the program, but that would require some common sense by the VA.
Yeah, voc rehab is such a subjective program, it's a joke. I've been in the process of getting approved for almost 2 years now. A veteran's outcome is 100% dependent on how their counselor is feeling that day.
 
My new counselor (I had to appeal twice and get a new counselor each time) said the legislation for VRE mandates the veteran is only released from the program when they have suitable and PERMANENT employment.
First off: Congrats on getting in the program!

Second off: In terms of what your new counselor stated about the programs credentials: Not true (unfortunately).

This is something that VR&E counselors try to put into the IWRP before you initiate the benefits of the program. The only obligation VR&E can do is pay up to two months of housing after you graduate once you've established you are not employed. Residency is entry level employment before being upgraded to full independent status as a physician. If for any reason your certifying official (which can include your VR&E counselor as well) does not close out the credit credentials you have to graduate from medical school and it is found out you are receiving benefits while being employed (aka residency) you are going to be entering into a 100% back-claw mechanism of which you will be paying back every penny you were given during residency.

VR&E counselors have tried this in the past and it has screwed over each veteran individually. Have him/her quote the CFR code that specifically states that it will indeed cover you until you reach permanent employment. The "goal" is gainful employment, not guaranteed permanent employment. If you have the credentials to interview and in your case gain a residency, that is the end of the goal and benefits. If for any reason your disabilities get aggravated or steer you from further progression, then an extension can be had (rare but can happen) into another field.
 
I need some input. I was approved for VRE for medical school. I also just received a full ride scholarship (tuition, housing, transportation, insurance). I don't know which route to go. I'm married with three kids and money is tight, so if I could possibly use both and get some money back, that would be amazing. Is this even possible? (I understand that this may come off as greedy, but I'm broke lol!)

VR&E will pay the difference "after" the scholarship is applied. If you had to pick between the two options go the VR&E route. If you are not clear with your counselor on what is happening with scholarship programs, you will be paying back any difference that is found. The program is obligated to pay out benefits out of reach for the veteran after other allotments have been applied such as scholarships. You might lose the scholarship, but you wont lose Chapter 31 benefits so long as you pass and graduate.

On another note, Chapter 31 benefits will also pay for a computer, printer, and other accommodations needed for school if you are upfront with your counselor stating these to be essential items. It'd also go over even better if the program has specific criteria on a syllabus of what technology is recommended for med school. Also, Chapter 31 will pay BAH based on the zip code of your institute (higher rate if you have at least 1 day left of GI Bill). Should you live in housing that is deemed "cheaper" than the BAH allowance, you still get to keep the difference. This is automatic in your checking account every month. The amount however will be adjusted for every day between semesters you are not in school.

Either way, be open about it with your counselor before trying to double dip. It wont play in your favor if you are caught doing both.
 
VR&E will pay the difference "after" the scholarship is applied. If you had to pick between the two options go the VR&E route. If you are not clear with your counselor on what is happening with scholarship programs, you will be paying back any difference that is found. The program is obligated to pay out benefits out of reach for the veteran after other allotments have been applied such as scholarships. You might lose the scholarship, but you wont lose Chapter 31 benefits so long as you pass and graduate.

On another note, Chapter 31 benefits will also pay for a computer, printer, and other accommodations needed for school if you are upfront with your counselor stating these to be essential items. It'd also go over even better if the program has specific criteria on a syllabus of what technology is recommended for med school. Also, Chapter 31 will pay BAH based on the zip code of your institute (higher rate if you have at least 1 day left of GI Bill). Should you live in housing that is deemed "cheaper" than the BAH allowance, you still get to keep the difference. This is automatic in your checking account every month. The amount however will be adjusted for every day between semesters you are not in school.

Either way, be open about it with your counselor before trying to double dip. It wont play in your favor if you are caught doing both.
Question, so with BAH, is it the same rate as with gi bill? I was under the impression that CH31 paid less for monthly stipend.
This was one of my big concerns.

Also, which would you suggest if instead, the scholarship was for the cost of attendance (housing, personal, insurance, transportation) or would VRE still be preferred?
 
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Question, so with BAH, is it the same rate as with gi bill? I was under the impression that CH31 paid less for monthly stipend.
This was one of my big concerns.

Also, which would you suggest if instead, the scholarship was for the cost of attendance (housing, personal, insurance, transportation) or would VRE still be preferred?

So long as you have at least 1 day left of your GI Bill (specifically post 9/11) when you cross over to Chapter 31, you will be paid at the GI Bill rate rather than the lower VR&E monthly stipend.

Very few instances would I suggest a scholarship over VR&E (especially for healthcare professions). As mentioned earlier, VR&E can cover all of what the scholarship offers plus other appliances catered to school such as computer and printer with the protection plans and latest office downloads as needed for school. Also, some scholarships are contingent upon maintaining a specific GPA while VR&E merely requires you passing all the way to graduation. If you happen to have at least 2 months worth of "lag time" of which you do not become employable (and provide the evidence of filing applications or pending job placements beyond the 60 day period after graduation), you will still be paid 2 months worth of BAH which most use for moving expenses and other needs.

It does not necessarily mean you cannot have both the scholarship and VR&E, it is simply that whatever the scholarship does not cover, VR&E will be applied. This would be something you must mention with your VRC when it comes to schooling. The important take away is to NOT try and use the scholarship + VR&E without first talking with your VRC rep. At this point, if you mention the scholarship and you can still finish an IWRP with your counselor, you're all set with using both.
 
Yeah, I definitely didn't get that. I used two years of leftover GI Bill during residency which I guess is about the same coverage and then it ran out. Tried to apply the STEM extension but was refused even on appeal. The extra tax free cash during residency was super nice though and helped me build up some savings.

I guess somebody complained because a recent amendment to the GI Bill now includes medical residency covered on the STEM extension. So those of you in the future using the GI Bill for residency may get an extra year if you apply.
 
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I guess somebody complained because a recent amendment to the GI Bill now includes medical residency covered on the STEM extension. So those of you in the future using the GI Bill for residency may get an extra year if you apply.
The amendment also says that this STEM extension doesn't count toward the 48 month combined max. So apparently people would be eligible even if they maxed their gi/voc rehab out. I think you would only be receiving BAH while in residency though.
 
The amendment also says that this STEM extension doesn't count toward the 48 month combined max. So apparently people would be eligible even if they maxed their gi/voc rehab out. I think you would only be receiving BAH while in residency though.
At the very least that's an extra $1K a month tax free. For me it was $2K+ as I lived in a high cost area. Nothing to sneeze at with a resident's salary.
 
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