Visa question

[helena]

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Ok, I have a pretty odd question I think. I'm a Swedish med student graduating in June 2007. I'm interested in US residency (haven't taken the Steps yet) but I want to do my internship in Sweden first. I entered the green card lottery a while back and was selected and I now have an interview for that. Although I'm not planning on moving to the US until in a couple of years, should I go for the Visa? I know it's easier to get a residency with a GC but a lot of FMG's go on a J-1 visa so it doesn't seem to be impossible without a GC either right? And there are some cons to the GC, it's expensive, I have to travel to the US every year until I move there etc...btw will they not be suspicious if I keep leaving the country during the first years I have my GC or will it be all right? I know I might regret it later if I don't go for the visa though - please HELP me! I'm really interested in US residency, but not just yet.

 

[grigory76]

Ok, I have a pretty odd question I think. I'm a Swedish med student graduating in June 2007. I'm interested in US residency (haven't taken the Steps yet) but I want to do my internship in Sweden first. I entered the green card lottery a while back and was selected and I now have an interview for that. Although I'm not planning on moving to the US until in a couple of years, should I go for the Visa? I know it's easier to get a residency with a GC but a lot of FMG's go on a J-1 visa so it doesn't seem to be impossible without a GC either right? And there are some cons to the GC, it's expensive, I have to travel to the US every year until I move there etc...btw will they not be suspicious if I keep leaving the country during the first years I have my GC or will it be all right? I know I might regret it later if I don't go for the visa though - please HELP me! I'm really interested in US residency, but not just yet.

Here is a lot of info on green card retention in case you'll get one: http://www.immihelp.com/greencard/retain-greencard.html
Basically you need to spend 6 months in a year in the US and there will be no questions asked. If it's not a problem go for GC, it will make your life easier in the states in all respects. (no need to take step 3 before residency too)

 

[new_avatar]

Ok, I have a pretty odd question I think. I'm a Swedish med student graduating in June 2007. I'm interested in US residency (haven't taken the Steps yet) but I want to do my internship in Sweden first. I entered the green card lottery a while back and was selected and I now have an interview for that. Although I'm not planning on moving to the US until in a couple of years, should I go for the Visa? I know it's easier to get a residency with a GC but a lot of FMG's go on a J-1 visa so it doesn't seem to be impossible without a GC either right? And there are some cons to the GC, it's expensive, I have to travel to the US every year until I move there etc...btw will they not be suspicious if I keep leaving the country during the first years I have my GC or will it be all right? I know I might regret it later if I don't go for the visa though - please HELP me! I'm really interested in US residency, but not just yet.

I would say go for the green card if you won the lottery. Congratulations. Some programs don't like to sponsor visas (many of the better ones to boot). With a green card it will open your options.

Just visiting once a year will keep it active.

And plus if you want to stay in the US after residency it will be much much easier, because if you don't have the green card you will have to find an employer to sponsor your visa for work again which is a big disadvantage to you.

Just my $0.02.

 

[helena]

I would say go for the green card if you won the lottery. Congratulations. Some programs don't like to sponsor visas (many of the better ones to boot). With a green card it will open your options.

Just visiting once a year will keep it active.

And plus if you want to stay in the US after residency it will be much much easier, because if you don't have the green card you will have to find an employer to sponsor your visa for work again which is a big disadvantage to you.

Just my $0.02.

I've heard they can take your green card from you even if you visit within a calendar year if they don't believe that your intent is to live and work in the US, how likely is that really?

Yeah, a green card would open many doors, maybe I should just take it and move to Hawaii and live a sweet life 😀 But really I realize it's a plus when applying for residency, but it's a big decision for a young girl who's still in school 😕 so much bureaucracy !

 

[f_w]

Although I'm not planning on moving to the US until in a couple of years, should I go for the Visa?

Tough call. This is the by far cheapest and easiest way you will ever get a GC for the US. The higher your qualifications get, the harder it is to get a GC, (particularly as a physician). My inclination would be to go for the GC and then to take the appropriate steps to keep it and to finish your medical studies.

With a GC and a medical school diploma from sweden in your pocket, you are 3/4 there to have a well paying physicianjob in the US medical system. You won't have to deal with 90% of the c#_) that most FMGs have to deal with. Your options of residencies/fellowships are similar to a US MD. By the time you finish residency you will be a citizen and you will be able to choose your jobs without giving a thought to immigration issues.

I have to travel to the US every year until I move there etc...btw will they not be suspicious if I keep leaving the country during the first years I have my GC or will it be all right?

You won't be 'allright', if you are not careful they will take the GC from you as fast as they gave it to you.

There are plenty of myths about how you can keep a GC alive after you received it. In the old days, you came back once a year, got your entry stamp, filed your taxes and you where set. Nowadays, things are much more complicated. In short, after you receive your GC, every absence from the US has to be 'clearly temporary in nature' and there 'cannot be any signs of you having intent to abandon your residence in the US'. The way immigration checks this is a bit fuzzy and revolves around the entire 'intent' issue. Here are some hypothetical examples:

- someone with a GC working for a multinational company sent abroad by his corp. for 2 years with a contract specifying this temporary assignment who obtains a 're-entry permit' will be ok.
- someone living here for 10 years with a GC who sells his house, sells his furniture, turns in his social security card, cashes out his retirement fund and leaves will be turned back at the border if he comes back 3 months later when he tries to return.
- someone with a lottery GC who enters the country for a week, applies for his social security card, goes home, returns for another week 6 months later, continues to study/work abroad, doesn't own property, doesn't have family etc.... Who knows (in all likelihood after the 2nd time or so of seeking admission, the officer will stamp 'questioning intent to abandon' into your passport. this is the last warning that they will pull your card the next time you seek admission).

So, take the GC, take a leave at your medical school, do rotations in the US, get an address here, get a bank account here, borrow some money (nothing makes you more american than borrowing money), work a little research odd-job (you are free to work, you have a green-card). Then return to sweden for a semester at a time (with a re-entry permit) and try your luck keeping the GC.

Congratulations, you are in a good position to make it here.

 

[Arb]

Would it be easier for a Canadian studying in Europe? They can pretty much cross the border with a driver's license and then board a plane for school without the US government knowing.

 

[helena]

Thanks for your reply f_w
However I really just want to finish medical school before I move!! By the time I would get my GC and enter the US with it it could be october and then I would have less than a year left in school. And I might actually do a rotation in the US in the fall if things work out. I've heard you can apply for some sort of "entry card" if you want to be outside the US for more than 6 months "legally". Would finishing medical school be a reason for them to give you this?
And if not, would an absence for less than a year (one time) without this entry card be risking too much?

 

[grigory76]

Thanks for your reply f_w
However I really just want to finish medical school before I move!! By the time I would get my GC and enter the US with it it could be october and then I would have less than a year left in school. And I might actually do a rotation in the US in the fall if things work out. I've heard you can apply for some sort of "entry card" if you want to be outside the US for more than 6 months "legally". Would finishing medical school be a reason for them to give you this?
And if not, would an absence for less than a year (one time) without this entry card be risking too much?

Helena, if you spend 6 months in the US out of 1 year no questions will be asked. If you need to spend more than 6 month abroad, then I think your med.school completion should be a good reason for an extension and reentry permit. The best way is to call or go to the US embassy in Stockholm and explain your situation: you want to accept the GC and intend on moving to the US permanently after completion of your med.school. I think they would give you no headache then.

 

[f_w]

Re-entry permit or not, you need to proove that you have closer ties to the US than to the country you go to for the 'temporary' stay.
So, if you come here, stay for a year, then get a re-entry permit and go back to finish your studies, you should be ok.
If you come here, stay for a couple of weeks, don't put down any roots, then to back for 5 months 30 days, you have a decent shot at loosing it.

 

[helena]

This is killing me, right now I'm thinking it's too much trouble and I might cancel the interview...but I might change my mind tomorrow.
I've heard that if you have ever applied for an immigrant visa (which I suppose the green card lottery is) you might have trobule getting a non-immigrant visa, true or not? I don't want that to happen either...

 

[f_w]

I've heard that if you have ever applied for an immigrant visa (which I suppose the green card lottery is) you might have trobule getting a non-immigrant visa, true or not?

That is correct. Participating in the lottery doesn't make you a 'likely immigrant'. Filing the paperwork with the consulate for an immigrant visa does.

You have a once in a lifetime chance to get a green-card, practically for free and with minimal paperwork hassles. Go for it ! (later in your career, a GC can easily cost you $10-15.000 and take several years of endless red-tape and mental anguish)

 

[rush2]

This is killing me, right now I'm thinking it's too much trouble and I might cancel the interview...but I might change my mind tomorrow.
I've heard that if you have ever applied for an immigrant visa (which I suppose the green card lottery is) you might have trobule getting a non-immigrant visa, true or not? I don't want that to happen either...

i'm sorry. but i just have to give my 0.02.

unless you have a marriage lined up with a US citizen or PR... GO to your interview, especially if you want to do a residency in the US eventually. i'm about to start med school in the US and am a canadian citizen, and would probably give a kidney to be in your position right now. i cringe everytime i think of the roadblocks that i will have to deal with come residency applications, given my non-PR status... which i pretty much cannot get (believe me, i know the entire USCIS website much better than i'd like to admit).

so. you have an opportunity that many people would be ridiculously grateful for. just suck it up and go.

 

[helena]

I think a big issue for me is the long path to residency in the US, while I would like to do residency in the US I don't want to give up everything else for it, at least not yet. My dream is to do my 2-year internship after medical school here, get licensed, and then go abroad (preferably to the US) for my specialty training. I believe it would be hard to start working in another country without work experience from you home country? I have done a internal medicine rotation in the US and I know that there are a lot of differences btw Scandinavia/Europe and the US when it comes to the practice of medicine and with greater experience I would probably be able to tackle this better?? All the USMLEs are also very expensive and requires time to study, doing all this in another country would not be easy. Moving would also require me to take maybe 2 years off from medicine. Who knows maybe I'll meet an American and get married and problem solved. Or I won't and I'll go on a J-1 or H
I know this is a great opportunity but I am afraid that if I cannot keep the green card I will be even worse off than before getting it. I mean, isn't it hurtful to take so much time off from medicine? The reasons I want to do residency and eventually practice in the US are first of all that I really like being there (have only lived there for 6 months though) and that I want to move someplace warmer. My dream is to live in California (I love San Diego) and I know that this is almost impossible for FMG:s, but I would consider Florida; NYC (still warmer than Sweden) and other coastal states too. I'm suspecting not even my green card would help with California? Perhaps for fellowship? If I would need to take time off from medicine while moving to the US I am afraid the program directors would not like this, especially since I wouldn't have much work experience from home either? I might be stupid if I turn down this chance but I believe more chances will come... I am a pretty stubborn person who usually gets what I want in the end. But I haven't totally decided...and it's not cheap about 1200 incl trips to embassy.

 

[f_w]

> I think a big issue for me is the long path to residency in the US,

It is not that long. You need a medical school diploma and USMLE 1,2ck,2cs. Experience at home is a plus but not required.

> My dream is to do my 2-year internship after medical school here,
> get licensed,

Would the health directorate credit US residency training as a substitute for the AT ? I know they are a bit funny, but you might be able to get your swedisch licensure with US residency training.

> I believe it would be hard to start working in another country without
> work experience from you home country?

Many residents starting here have no experience in the US medical system. It makes for an interesting month of July, but people adjust to the different medication names and hospital procedures in a couple of weeks.

> All the USMLEs are also very expensive and requires time to study,

Yep, they are expensive. But this is money well invested. I assume your medschool in sweden was practically free (no tuition, you probably still had room and board expenses). So you don't have to worry about medical school loans. It would even be worth borrowing the money if you had to. It is about $5000, if you started as a resident you would be able to pay that back in a year or two.

> Moving would also require me to take maybe 2 years off from medicine.

Not necessarily. Take a year, work a research job, write your USMLEs, do your clinical year etc. As long as you remain somewhere in the medical system, it won't be held against you.

> Who knows maybe I'll meet an American and get married and problem
> solved.

Americans have these fantasies about swedish women, you shouldn't have a problem to go that route if you desire so 😉

> Or I won't and I'll go on a J-1 or H

With years of fincancial expenses, limitations of professional opportunities and exposure to the wims of the american medical association and politics. Nothing compares to a green-card.

> My dream is to live in California (I love San Diego) and I know that this \
> is almost impossible for FMG:s,

Impossible without a green-card.

> but I would consider Florida;

Plenty of foreign grads in FL.

> NYC (still warmer than Sweden)

Only in the summer. By the way, you must have a green-card to get a medical license in NY.

> If I would need to take time off from medicine while moving to the US
> I am afraid the program directors would not like this,

I know several female FMGs who had anywhere from 3-8 years between graduating medical school and starting a residency (due to immigration and child-care issues, most of them where married to computer professionals). It makes it much more difficult to get back into the system, but it is possible.

> I might be stupid if I turn down this chance

As one poster further up put it, there are plenty of FMG physicians in this country who would gladly give their left kidney in exchange for your green-card (hey, they could marry you, that way they would get a green-card at the same time that you get it )

> ..and it's not cheap about 1200 incl trips to embassy.

That amount is less than 10% of what you would pay for a green-card later on in your career. Believe me, 1200 (is that kroner or $$) is money well spent.

 

[helena]

>Would the health directorate credit US residency training as a substitute for the AT ? I know they are a bit funny, but you might be able to get your swedisch licensure with US residency training.

I think they would probably credit a part of the training but not all of it, AT has a lot of Psych and Surgery in it which for example if I went in to Internal Medicine I wouldn't have that much of.

>So you don't have to worry about medical school loans.

I do have loans for room and board, but I guess not nearly as much as an American US student have

>Take a year, work a research job

How would it be to land a research job w/o much experience?

>write your USMLEs, do your clinical year etc.

My clinical year? what clinical year? I will be done with med school by the time I would move, I have checked and it's Ok the first to do so.

>Americans have these fantasies about swedish women, you shouldn't have a problem to go that route if you desire so 😉

Well Swedish women are also a bit more feministic than most American men can handle so it would have to be someone that could imagine being a stay at home dad (I know I've had an American boyfriend)

> My dream is to live in California (I love San Diego) and I know that this \
> is almost impossible for FMG:s,
>Impossible without a green-card.

With a gc - maybe possible?

>That amount is less than 10% of what you would pay for a green-card later on in your career. Believe me, 1200 (is that kroner or $$) is money well spent

It's $


How competitive are the transitional and preliminary years? I would actually not mind one of those.

Btw f_w are you also from Europe? You sound like you're not an American citrizen, what made you go to the US?

And thanks for your input!

 

[helena]

Btw I do believe that marriage is always the easiest way to get a "green card" (in any country) - and cheaper! 😍
But maybe not if you want your dream man 😉

 

[f_w]

> AT has a lot of Psych and Surgery in it which for example if I went in
> to Internal Medicine I wouldn't have that much of.

That is what I figured. You might be able to do a transitional year and fullfill the requirements for the AT that way.

> but I guess not nearly as much as an American US student have

NOBODY has as high of a loan burden as a US medstudent.

> How would it be to land a research job w/o much experience?

There are allways opportunities where someone is looking for a lab-rat or someone doing clinical research related work. There is no website to go to or listing of these jobs, finding them is up to your own ingenuity.

> My clinical year? what clinical year?

I thought you had your last year of medschool still to finish up by the time your immigrant visa comes around.
If you could finish your medical school and get your diploma before you have to make use of your immigrant visa, you are all set.

> Well Swedish women are also a bit more feministic than most American
> men can handle so it would have to be someone that could imagine
> being a stay at home dad (I know I've had an American boyfriend)


This is where fantasy and reality collide.
People here are much more into the 'traditional' family thing. Imagine Sweden in the 30s 😉 Guys here still see their testicles shrink if their wife consistently makes more $$ then they do. The good thing in medicine is that you are not limited to the local crop, there will be plenty of bachelors from around the world to choose from 😀

> My dream is to live in California (I love San Diego)
> With a gc - maybe possible?

Maybe.
A way to ge there eventually is to do a residency outside of cali and then move there for a job.

> It's $

Still, its nothing compared to the actual + opportunity cost of obtaining a GC later on.
By the way. There is a distinct chance that the lottery green-card program will go away next year. It was introduced to promote diversity in the immigrant community (in other words: dilute the influx of irish at the time). Today, the US immigrant population is as diverse as it can be and the program has no basis anymore. There are efforts carve up the 55000 lottery green-cards and roll them into the family and employment quotas.

> How competitive are the transitional and preliminary years?

TYs are fairly competitive, mainly because they tend to be done by people who later go into some of the more competitive specialties such as radiology, rehab, derm and radiation therapy.

> what made you go to the US?

- Well defined training pathways that ensure that after you put in a set number of years you can advance to the next level.
- Better career opportunities after residency compared with my home country.

Whatever decision you make, it will be the right one (as long as it includes you taking this free green-card). 😉

 

[helena]

Although some people migh think this is a stupid decision I've decided not to go to the green card interview. For various reasons, I feel like I would be closing so many other doors if I do get the green card, I believe other chances will come. And there are a lot of other things I would like to do (e.g I'm going to San Fran or NYC on Easter break!). And this has been agonizing me for the longest time now, I was quite happy before this oppurtunity came along. And it's really important for me to first get licensed in my home country. I guess I'm just not prepared to give up everything and move all alone to a new country without even having taken the USMLEs. I am still considering research opputunities or residency in the US though but I guess I will have to go with marriage to US citizen instead

 

[f_w]

Well, I hope for you that you won't regret this decision.

It is interesting, I have yet to meet a woman who came to the US by herself to pursue professional opportunities. Most of them seem to come either if their significant other moves or in order to be with someone over here. Emancipation or not, there seem to be some profound behavioural differences between men and women (accross cultures) when it comes to managing risk.

Good Luck !

 

[NR117]

Well, I hope for you that you won't regret this decision.

It is interesting, I have yet to meet a woman who came to the US by herself to pursue professional opportunities. Most of them seem to come either if their significant other moves or in order to be with someone over here. Emancipation or not, there seem to be some profound behavioural differences between men and women (accross cultures) when it comes to managing risk.

Good Luck !

Well, f_w, I had to step in and say something. You may not have met anyone like that but I moved to Canada strictly to pursue my academic ambitions and decided to stay. I know a number of other women who did just that. A few were not able to get credentialed in North America so they returned to their home country but most did stay. By the time I got married, I was already a citizen. Not all women go wherever their boyfriend/husband goes, you know...In fact when I met my husband, marriage was the last thing on my mind!

 

[f_w]

I don't dispute your existence, but for anyone like you, there are probably 10 guys who make the jump into the abyss of emigration.