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Not by much, but you tend to have a lot fewer meth labs and people tend to have more teeth the further north you go.
Volunteering in Africa?
- Thread starter detvar
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Look at this guy!! He is sooooo cool!!! I want to be just like him!!!He is saving Africans just by smiling and being present!
I agree with the general sentiment of this thread! Africa's problems are going to be solved by Africans not some pre-med with no qualifications If you are going to go to Africa go to one of the better countries on vacation but, dont go there as pre-med Jesus to try to save anyone
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Notice how only two of the Africans are smiling....yeah, they're thrilled he's there.
Look at this guy!! He is sooooo cool!!! I want to be just like him!!!He is saving Africans just by smiling and being present!
I agree with the general sentiment of this thread! Africa's problems are going to be solved by Africans not some pre-med with no qualifications If you are going to go to Africa go to one of the better countries on vacation but, dont go there as pre-med Jesus to try to save anyone
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I thought that refers to how people are now going to 3rd world countries, best known for their tourism, in order to have procedures done at a discount rate....These are normally packaged deals...tour for a few days and then have your surgery...blah blah blah
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I've heard it used for both, but only because "Wasting Daddy's Money to Pad My Med School Application and Give the Appearance that I Really Care about the Poor of Some Place I Couldn't Find On a Map If I Were Offered a Full Ride to Harvard to Do So" just doesn't roll off the tongue.
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Amen....I may be a Democrat, but I also happen to believe there is nothing wrong with war..... for example:
I would also vote to bring back carpet and fire bombing. It worked against the Germans and the Japanese and they seem to have stayed in their places quite nicely
wow, you're still living in the 20th century...nationalism and patriotism is passe. i hope you know that countries have to cooperate with each other and are interdependant and more importantly - if the asia pacific nations, canada, europe, south america, africa decided to forget about america - they could reasonably sustain their way of life and rate of development (well, it might slow) just fine.
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Did I say this had anything to do with me thinking Americans are better? No (actually I've considered becoming an expat if things slide any further downhill), it has everything with not letting people who attack another country (and I mean actually do it or try and fail, not just wave their dick around and talk about the mother of all wars) get away with it. I'm all for a non-war solution, but I do believe if it gets to that point, the gloves come off.
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Oh no. You are absolutely wrong about this. The Europeans believe this and are being assimilated, borg-like, by an enemy (islam) that believes in the value of exclusionary beliefs.
Maybe their dream is a pan-islamic Europe and not one country per se but they definitely are not interested in cooperation with the infidels. You'd better, with apologies, get you head out of your ass and start sticking up for America and Western ideals in general or you may become passe.
In other words, you may become too civilized and cosmopolitan for your own good. I'm not going to storm the beaches of Iowa Jima out of loyalty to the planet in general or global interdependence.
Sometime the beaches need to be stormed and it's not going to be the effete, post-nationalistic Belgians who are going to do it.
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Agreed.....
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Oh, So True. If I was on adcoms I would consider taking away points for people who went to Africa.
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As opposed to those of us who are going to Nepal just for our own amusement right?
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Exactly. The difference is that we will be able to do something meaningful at the same time.
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Well, I guess I'm not too knowledgeable myself (true admission) since if you noticed in my thread, I sorta forget to mention the middle east! But I'm not going to apologize for trying to take Western ideals to the next level...but I agree that if what you say is true (and I think it should be examined carefully b/c saying Islam is an enemy who wants to take over europe sounds a bit extreme and protectionist too), something should be done to stop it. However, who's to say that our global development has to be linear? How do we know that western society will not benefit or become even better with some fusion with Islamic ideals??? I mean, who in 1000 AD would have thought that the western world would benefit from a long historical development towards civil-liberal secularism?
You have to admit that we live in a very complicated world...
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Really, it depends what you are going there to do. I disagree immensely with people who just pay money to go and do some pre-med tourism kind of stuff. But there are cases where REAL volunteer work is warranted, and entirely in line with what some people want to do for the rest of their lives. I was part of a student run group that went to Tanzania. We had to raise all the money ourselves, through a number of different initiatives. We also planned our own project. When we arrived, we dealt with the government to get approval for our project and then moved out into the outlying areas of Tanzania to execute the project which consisted of healthcare education in schools, and small villages. We helped create community based groups who even now two years later continue to do healthcare education, and we helped to incorporate our educational curriculum into local schools, along with training the teachers in this area. Because I speak swahili (learned while i was there) as well as english, I was able to also help out at the hospital and get the 'clinical experience' that you all suggest is evil, but that was a minor side note to our main project. Our project still continues in the community despite our abscence, and we helped to strengthen the local infrastructure of the medical system in the area through education. If you try to tell me that is not meaningful to the communities we were working in, then I don't know what is. And this is something I want to do for the rest of my life, and I feel that the experience will make me a better doctor once I become one. So it absolutely falls under the category of 'related experience' as opposed to 'resume padding'. All I'm saying is you can't lump all people who volunteer in impoverished areas (not just Africa) in the same group of 'medical tourists'.
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Interesting - you apologize to me, yet you continually bash people who went to Africa.
F--- it. Whatever.
There is need in Africa just as there is need in Nepal. Going to Nepal on someone else's dime doesn't make you "special." And FYI - when most people say they went to "Africa" they went to one of three countries: Kenya, Tanzania, or Uganda. As a result, the other countries are relatively forgotten. I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to help in one of those countries.
Yes but the real question that herein lies is how many premeds actually start their own project that has this sort of impact??? Most people go for 1-2 weeks maybe 6 at the most and in that time it may be beneficial to the premed but not as beneficial as someone who's continually working there on a long term basis will have for the patients. What happens once people leave if there aren't people there to continue the programs which is true in several places??? Panda brought a good point up when he said the cost it takes us to go there could be better used towards providing education for people to work there on a more permanent basis.
Oh and I don't think that this is true of Africa only so much as any intl trip.
I don't know how volunteering in Nepal is any more unique then volunteering in Africa or Mongolia or Armenia or any other country for that matter. its still the same principle.
There is maybe one and only one time when i can see it as actually having a life changing impact on a person's life, and that is when intl volunteering while in another completely unrelated career results in you going back to study medicine. There are very few, and all non trads at that, who I believe would actually return to do medical mission trips after med school.
Maybe a few foreigners in America as well would go in that category. But i hardly know of many typical premeds who do these trips and actually go back to these countries once out in practice which is when it would really be beneficial because at that stage you'd have the knowledge to treat the patients properly.
Maybe a few foreigners in America as well would go in that category. But i hardly know of many typical premeds who do these trips and actually go back to these countries once out in practice which is when it would really be beneficial because at that stage you'd have the knowledge to treat the patients properly.
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If you do end up going to Africa, don't forget the DAB's!!!!
The DAB's are the most important part of that trip, as well as your pass to medical school.
Disclaimer: Get a sense of humor before you fire at me about the insensitiveness of this post. I know, I know.
The DAB's are the most important part of that trip, as well as your pass to medical school.
Disclaimer: Get a sense of humor before you fire at me about the insensitiveness of this post. I know, I know.
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Make sure the DABs are in the first line of your personal statement!!!
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For all the newbies who don't know what a DAB is....here you go:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=285834&highlight=dead+african+babies
Enjoy.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=285834&highlight=dead+african+babies
Enjoy.
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Heh. I have a class about Turkish German lit and islam culture in germany now...It is funny how the German government is trying to lighten up how islam looks. As in the people that ran the muslim association for Berlin (which oddly enough were all converted white people) created a "new" version of islam they like to call "Islam light"....The goal is suppossed to be to make people aware that not every person who is muslim is radical.....which is a given to me but the problem is that the ones that practice "islam light" (which nobody has a real idea of what it is) have the tendency to not be very vocal in the government verus the truly religious, force their daughters to marry, suppress women type. I personally compare the "islam light" to the catholic church versus the episcopal church....just give it a different name or something.
And as well all know Belgians are good for 3 things....Beer (the main one), chocolate, and lace..........well I'll make it 4. They have a decent diamond trade in antwerp. None of which are kicking ass..unless it is kicking ass with their awesome beer which I am all for.
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Haha yeah don't talk about the DABs with the MCAT forumers - they're rather sensitive over there - just had a 2 page debate about the innapropriate use of 'rape.' It was pretty funny though
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The Taliban thugs who shot women in the head for adultery and the Iranian Mullahs have nothing to offer to the West that is of any value. You cannot on one hand support liberal Western democratic ideals and on the other shrug your shoulders at the dark ages ideology which has hijacked the Moslem world.
About the only hope Europe has is that their Moslem population will become as jaded, as lazy, and as effete as everybody elses under the influence of the nanny-state.
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Are y'all really saying that foreign volunteering is selfish? There are very few true benevolent, self-less acts.
Even if the OP is volunteering in Africa for a short time and to pad his resume, I believe that it can be a beneficial experience for the OP and the community he volunteers in.
Even if 2 weeks volunteering does not accomplish much, often times just being there shows that community that Westerners do care and that we are not all war-mongering, selfish, couch potato Bush thugs. And, if this is a legitimate program, the 2 weeks of all those volunteers will add up.
Yes, I would probably rate a self-paid, brief volunteer trip lower than a long term stint like Americorps or Peace Corps but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
Isn't it preferable that a person spend 2 weeks of their vacation time and their money on a volunteer trip in (insert 3rd world country here), than go to Hawaii?
And to the person who posted about developing his own program and learning to speak Swahili- how can it be such a great program if you designed it without even having been to the country and community? That is not sustainable (even though you say it is) because it does not have community buy-in. How long were you in country, btw?
Regardless, Volunteering is volunteering. We all do things that will make us look better that we don't have our whole hearts in. Do y'all think that you are saving the world by shadowing a doctor or working at a soup kitchen once a week? Get over yourselves.
Even if the OP is volunteering in Africa for a short time and to pad his resume, I believe that it can be a beneficial experience for the OP and the community he volunteers in.
Even if 2 weeks volunteering does not accomplish much, often times just being there shows that community that Westerners do care and that we are not all war-mongering, selfish, couch potato Bush thugs. And, if this is a legitimate program, the 2 weeks of all those volunteers will add up.
Yes, I would probably rate a self-paid, brief volunteer trip lower than a long term stint like Americorps or Peace Corps but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
Isn't it preferable that a person spend 2 weeks of their vacation time and their money on a volunteer trip in (insert 3rd world country here), than go to Hawaii?
And to the person who posted about developing his own program and learning to speak Swahili- how can it be such a great program if you designed it without even having been to the country and community? That is not sustainable (even though you say it is) because it does not have community buy-in. How long were you in country, btw?
Regardless, Volunteering is volunteering. We all do things that will make us look better that we don't have our whole hearts in. Do y'all think that you are saving the world by shadowing a doctor or working at a soup kitchen once a week? Get over yourselves.
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Haha yeah don't talk about the DABs with the MCAT forumers - they're rather sensitive over there - just had a 2 page debate about the innapropriate use of 'rape.' It was pretty funny though
I just went there. Holy Cow...
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Easy now. The universal desire of every Liberian I talked to back when I was a Marine conducting operations there was that the United States would send many, many war-mongering, selfish couch potato Bush thugs (it was Bush 41 back then) to protect them from the thugs who control much of West Africa.
A Marine Regimental Landing Team or an Army Brigade Combat Team would be welcomed with a good deal more enthusiasm in the Sudan then any combination of Doctors Without Borders and self-centered American pre-meds.
You need to think before you speak. I support President Bush, am pro-war, and am not a thug. Nor am I any more or less selfish than anybody in the world.
Okay. I like to sit on the couch and watch TV but how is this fundamentally worse than a French girly-man sipping his scrotum shrivelling cafe au lait on the Champ D'Elysee?
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Isn't it great! Premeds are so fun.
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They don't care that you care. Most of them don't even know that you pretend to care. Africa is so big and so diverse that what little scraps of caring trickle through all of the corruption make very little difference.
Like I said. It would be better for a group of you to pool two weeks of your pay or skip that ski trip and use the money to pay a Liberian Doctor's salary for a year.
It is only liberal white guilt that makes you feel the need to go over there and demonstrate yor compassion, mostly to yourself, by looking at all of that gross stuff.
I have a friend who collects discarded but still servicable medical equipment which he ships to Nigeria. Did you know that they re-use their latex gloves over there? We just casually throw them away but they use them until they get holed or torn.
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Excellent. I collect oxymorons...
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Come on now. I can point to an awful lot of thuggish leftist behavior. I'm not a big believer in moral relativism but I do concede that every ideology has its fringe extremists. We have David Duke, you guys have Noam Chomsky.
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I'll stick with the guy who held the record for being cited more than any other living scholar. You can have the founder of the Knights of the KKK.
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Very true. Bullies abound on both sides of the fence.
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Oh, you mean that guy who was buddy-buddy with Pol Pot and tried to justify the Cambodian genocide?
You're welcome to him. At least the guy burning the cross is small potatoes and we can keep an eye on him.
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David Duke was not the founder of the KKK. Neither was Robert "Sheets" Byrd, D-WV.
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I think the trip DKM is talking about is unique because it involves educating local citizens in paramedicine as well as donating supplies and funding so that when we leave, they will be self sustainable. From what it sounds like, most of the African trips involve pre-meds who show up and help in some clinic and leave things exactly as they were before they came.
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Yup...I am pretty sure it is the whole "teach a man to fish" kind of thing. Instead of going somewhere and shaking your head saying "Oh this is such a shame, these poor people", dishing out some food, take a few photo ops and getting the hell out of dodge, one needs to actually attempt to do something that will last and help the people for extended periods of time or until sally struthers moves in.
How exactly is that unique??? They have programs like that in India and other Asian countries as well. Just check out the organization CFHI if you need proof of that.
I stand by my original statements.
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Besides, how will volunteering at anything make you a better doctor?
All it shows it that you're willing to work for free.
All it shows it that you're willing to work for free.
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I looked at CFHI. All I saw was an opportunity for premeds to go to international clinics and follow doctors around. I don't see how that is establishing sustainable medical programs in these countries.
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It doesn't make you a better doctor, but it might give you the insight necessary to make informed decisions about what you want to do with your life, if that volunteer experience is worthwhile.
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Close to forty years ago. In far more recent memory, members of the current administration were buddy-buddy with Saddam Hussein as recently as the late 90's.
But we digress. You're right wing, I'm left, we're not going to agree politically.
They have some community health programs in India. Not much for premeds to do but the med students and doctors that work with the organization do a lot with that kind of stuff. My friend also did that kind of stuff this summer in South India independently.
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Yeah, I've heard about CFHI before... I was thinking about (actually still am thinking about) participating in it. I think it isn't the kind of "medical tourism" that people are talking about since part of your responsibility is to actually put together some supplies etc to bring with you to the site which can be used after you leave. Also, the program says that you're not providing services to people who wouldn't otherwise get it... this isn't that kind of program.
EDIT: I'm not going to get involved in this argument, but in my opinion as long as you're intentions are ok, you're ok by me... meaning, if you're going abroad just to say ooh look at me i'm so cool because I went to Africa, then you shouldn't be going to Africa. There's no point in going if you're not interested at all in the community you're attempting to help.
I personally have an interest in improving my Spanish skills and working with Black/Latino communities... so I think it might be useful to go someplace where I'll be forced to speak Spanish, and meanwhile get firsthand experience of the cultural issues that may me involved when in reproductive health. Surely there are Latino people where I am now and I already work with them, but my language skills will improve if I have to live with a Spanish speaking family, etc.
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Actually, the post reads "Knights of the Ku Klux Klan". This is the political wing developed when the KKK decided to make a run for political seats. I believe he was Grand Wizard of the KKK, though I'm not sure.
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I was under the impression that PD's love that.
Oh and that rape thread was totally radical. I would imagine the people in the lounge would enjoy that debate.
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I never said it was unique, save for the location, and quite frankly I do not give a crap what anyone else thinks; the only reason I am going is because I want to and I think it will benefit more people than I could ever do alone or with a small group of Americans alone. Think of it as the medical equivalent of force multiplication.
Besides, it wasn't even my idea....I was invited by a doctor there to do it; but I was put in charge of organizing the trip and procuring supplies. By the way, Leviathan has been quite helpful to that end and I owe him a debt of gratitude for it.
I wasn't saying don't go. If you feel it will benefit you then by all means go. However, I was just making a point that its not unique by any way shape or form as a concept.
Sorry if I offended you.
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I actually knew the Imperial Wizard of the Louisana Klan. Not socially, you understand, but he lived next door to some family friends in Choudrant, Louisiana so I chatted with him a few times. You know, about the weather, hunting dogs, how white women are being corrupted by rap music...the usual elements of polite conversation.
