"Walgreens pharmacist denies woman miscarriage medication due to his beliefs"

[CetiAlphaFive]

I could see the issue if this was BFE Montana...but this is a suburb of Phoenix. There are a whole lot of pharmacies. You can choose another pharmacy that is more in line with your personal ethics. I personally don't care about dispensing misoprostol to whoever...but I'm also not trying to say I'm the end all, be all of ethics and religion. If this person truly and honestly thinks that their deity of choice is going to be angry for participating in this procedure and another practitioner is readily available elsewhere close by...just go to the other pharmacy. Religion is for weak people that can't come to terms with mortality. So we are already talking about mentally flimsy people. I'm not going to get mad at the weak for being weak. It's pointless. Just roll your eyes and go to the CVS across the street. (There is a strong chance statistically that there actually is a CVS across the street.)

Also, the ******* pharmacist needs to learn the "I don't have this in stock, I transferred it to this other Walgreens down the street" move.

Also, this whole mess of using social media to try to destroy someone's life is beyond reasonable. That **** just needs to end in general.

[Dia de muertos intensifies]

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[CetiAlphaFive]

Pharmacist won't lose his job, don't be ridiculous.

It's happened several times before

 

[WVUPharm2007]

That's the thing though, the Bible says a whole lot more that people don't follow. Shouldn't they not dispense birth control or pde5 inhibitors?

You can't pick and choose from the Bible.

The bible is completely contradictory between the old and new testament. You had vengeful, hateful god in the first half. Then friendly, hippy god in the second half. You can take away from it whatever you want, really.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Law's don't matter. The pharmacist was found guilty in the court of public opinion which negatively effects walgreens PR and stock price. You realize Walgreens is still recovering from the Theranos scam where they worked with a woman facing criminal charges for fraud right? I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Pharmacist lost his job from this. I would lay him of or reduce his hours. No flexibility to act like a ***** even if it's according to your *****ic religious beliefs. The woman should sue the pharmacist and the pharmacy for negligence.

Then the conservatives boycott and you have two giant groups of idiots mad at you. Same thing that happened to the NFL, but in reverse.

 

[PA_dud3]

When I was still a certain religion I was taught contraception in any form was a sin. I had the biggest crisis of conscience then because I knew as a pharmacist I would have to dispense it in some form. Then I started reading about how it works, etc and determined of my own conscience that it was not immoral. I have since left said religion and said views behind. I am however still a christian, just one with an informed conscience. If you are held so strongly to (what I assume are) catholic beliefs, why would you even consider pharmacy?

 

[wagrxm2000]

The bible is completely contradictory between the old and new testament. You had vengeful, hateful god in the first half. Then friendly, hippy god in the second half. You can take away from it whatever you want, really.

So the Bible is ok with sex outside marriage? I honestly don't know what it says.

 

[wagrxm2000]

If you don't have a contract, what's to stop Walgreens from just saying that his services are no longer required? I mean, I have a contract but there is a 90-day no-cause termination clause in there. They could exercise that against me tomorrow for absolutely any/no reason and not much I can do about it.

Walgreens has a policy for firing.

But I have no clue if this guy would have a case or not. It would be obvious why he was fired even if they had a legit reason.

Would a judge say you clearly fired him for PR reasons or would the judge say nope this is why you were fired.

The moral of the story is keep your beliefs to yourself and don't push them onto others.

 

[Son_Goku]

I can't see how anyone who lets religious beliefs dictate their decisions in life and come to be a doctor of any sort.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

So the Bible is ok with sex outside marriage? I honestly don't know what it says.

It isn't. But I think this woman was married, so that renders that moot.

 

[deleted480308]

When I was still a certain religion I was taught contraception in any form was a sin. I had the biggest crisis of conscience then because I knew as a pharmacist I would have to dispense it in some form. Then I started reading about how it works, etc and determined of my own conscience that it was not immoral. I have since left said religion and said views behind. I am however still a christian, just one with an informed conscience. If you are held so strongly to (what I assume are) catholic beliefs, why would you even consider pharmacy?

Because there is soooooo much more to pharmacy than meds viewed as abortifacents

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I can't see how anyone who lets religious beliefs dictate their decisions in life and come to be a doctor of any sort.

But then we are talking about restricting a bunch of potentially brilliant people. Ben Carson was a genius surgeon...the first person to separate conjoined twins...even though his religious beliefs are nutty as hell...man had some skill.

 

[mustang sally]

I don't have a problem with people acting in line with their religious beliefs (for the most part), but I have a strong moral conviction that you shouldn't be in a profession if you choose not to perform the job functions required of said profession.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I don't have a problem with people acting in line with their religious beliefs (for the most part), but I have a strong moral conviction that you shouldn't be in a profession if you choose not to perform the job functions required of said profession.

So every OB/GYN and family doctor should have to be OK with doing abortions?

 

[wagrxm2000]

It isn't. But I think this woman was married, so that renders that moot.

That's what I'm saying though, does this pharmacist deny other scripts? I bet not.

 

[PA_dud3]

Because there is soooooo much more to pharmacy than meds viewed as abortifacents

Can't tell if sarcasm, but there really isn't. Most retail and I'd imagine a lot of hospital pharmacists dispense medications on a daily basis that "the church" views as gravel sinful. Yeah, getting a clinical job you're less likely to do it, but taking into account the sheer number of retail jobs, you're more than likely to dispense an abortifacient or contraceptive at somepoint, both of which the church views as sinful.

 

[deleted480308]

Can't tell if sarcasm, but there really isn't. Every retail and I'd imagine a lot of hospital pharmacists dispense medications on a daily basis that "the church" views as gravel sinful. Yeah, getting a clinical job you're less likely to do it, but taking into account the sheer number of retail jobs, you're more than likely to dispense an abortifacient or contraceptive at somepoint, both of which the church views as sinful.

With this statement you are giving me the impression that you know little about what pharmacists do all day and little about what conservative christians in america believe

 

[RxPreceptor]

Drugs = tools. Would not be one to interfere with Physician-Patient relationship simply due to morals/ethics...if the wish was Physician Assisted Suicide & everything was documented accordingly, so be it (if it were legal in my state that is). Not enough time in the day to confuse myself by following religious beliefs

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Can't tell if sarcasm, but there really isn't. Every retail and I'd imagine a lot of hospital pharmacists dispense medications on a daily basis that "the church" views as gravel sinful. Yeah, getting a clinical job you're less likely to do it, but taking into account the sheer number of retail jobs, you're more than likely to dispense an abortifacient or contraceptive at somepoint, both of which the church views as sinful.

The church is OK with contraceptives so long as the primary goal is not contraception. Its why if you look at records from Catholic hospitals there are HUGE numbers of women with menorrhagia/dysmenorrhea.

 

[W19]

With this statement you are giving me the impression that you know little about what pharmacists do all day and little about what conservative christians in america believe

What do they believe in?

 

[wagrxm2000]

Can't you just go and tell your priest your sins and they'll be removed?

Christians sin all the time, I thought God was forgiving?

 

[deleted480308]

What do they believe in?

A lot of conservative christians would object to abortifacents, hormonal transition management of minors, or p/a suicide

A smaller subset would object to birth control for birth control’s sake

And within those groups a number wouldn’t use it thenself but would dispense

 

[PA_dud3]

With this statement you are giving me the impression that you know little about what pharmacists do all day and little about what conservative christians in america believe

My posts had nothing to do with what most of conservative Christians belive, and I'm not sure why you've brought it up. I'm speaking about from the perspective of a retail pharmacist. If you are CATHOLIC and hold to your views strongly, you will more than likely be put into a position where you commit a mortal sin by dispensing birth control for reasons of contraception. Not to mention abortifacients. I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to argue with me. All I'm saying is if you are catholic and have the knowledge you will most likely dispense birth control or an abortifacient at some point in your career, why would you go into pharmacy? As this would be "mortally sinful".

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

My posts had nothing to do with what most of conservative Christians belive, and I'm not sure why you've brought it up. I'm speaking about from the perspective of a retail pharmacist. If you are CATHOLIC and hold to your views strongly, you will more than likely be put into a position where you commit a mortal sin by dispensing birth control for reasons of contraception. Not to mention abortifacients. I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to argue with me. All I'm saying is if you are catholic and have the knowledge you will most likely dispense birth control or an abortifacient at some point in your career, why would you go into pharmacy? As this would be "mortally sinful".

Go into a branch of pharmacy where this isn't likely to be an issue - nuclear, hospital, oncology, hospice, nursing home.

 

[wagrxm2000]

So I read a different article about this and apparently there were other pharmacists working.

Why didn't a different pharmacist dispense it?

 

[deleted480308]

My posts had nothing to do with what most of conservative Christians belive, and I'm not sure why you've brought it up. I'm speaking about from the perspective of a retail pharmacist. If you are CATHOLIC and hold to your views strongly, you will more than likely be put into a position where you commit a mortal sin by dispensing birth control for reasons of contraception. Not to mention abortifacients. I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to argue with me. All I'm saying is if you are catholic and have the knowledge you will most likely dispense birth control or an abortifacient at some point in your career, why would you go into pharmacy? As this would be "mortally sinful".

Catholics come in both liberal and conservative varieties, you also said hospital pharmacists, Catholics are christians, and I specifically said it was a small subset that both had objections to birth control for their personal use and would refuse to dispense

Even then, they can certainly open their own pharmacy or try to find an employer that is willing to accommodate them

 

[PA_dud3]

Go into a branch of pharmacy where this isn't likely to be an issue - nuclear, hospital, oncology, hospice, nursing home.

Yes, this is an option. Albeit a somewhat unlikely one given the current market. I liked retail though so I decided to change something I felt out of place in to begin with.

 

[PA_dud3]

Catholics come in both liberal and conservative varieties, you also said hospital pharmacists, Catholics are christians, and I specifically said it was a small subset that both had objections to birth control for their personal use and would refuse to dispense

Even then, they can certainly open their own pharmacy or try to find an employer that is willing to accommodate them

Okay, I see what you mean now, my apologies. Yes those are both definitely options. But I felt more comfortable giving the patient what they need than trying to do the mental gymnastics to try and justify it with my conscience or trying to find a specialty other than retail.

 

[JustAnotherRph]

I live in Arizona and the city where this took place. I've heard so many different versions in my own news station that I'm not even sure which is the truth. I've heard versions where the pharmacist did absolutely nothing and ignored the patient to giving the patient options to fill it tomorrow hen his partner is in or for him to transfer it to the nearest 24 hour Walgreens for her so she can pick it up tonight. It seems crazy to have two different versions but it is the news.

Either way, the Supreme Court just provided two rulings that contradict each other. The first is that no pharmacist could deny a prescription for moral and ethical reasons and the second being that a business is within its's rights to deny based on moral and ethical reasons (the cake ruling that just happened). Per the Board, a pharmacist is allowed to deny any prescription they feel is against their moral or ethical values but must provide an alternative for the patient to obtain the medication.

Honestly, my personal belief means nothing so I'm not even going to entertain it. I was pissed off when this was in the news and more pissed off when it went national. We aren't forcing doctors to perform abortions, but maybe we should, since a pharmacist can't deny a prescription for the same reason. Every argument I got into with people was that a pharmacist HAS to dispense what the doctor ordered without question. The whole public view of what pharmacists do is completely skewed and maybe that is what needs to change. Why the hell bother having DUR checks or even bother counseling if we have to dispense it anyways, in the land of public opinion?

On a side note, all I got out of this fiasco was that people are only tolerant when it fits their own beliefs and those that don't share their beliefs deserve to be taken out back and shot.

 

[Gunter]

She said she's humiliated? She most likely went bonkers in the pharmacy and felt humiliated afterward because of her rude/nasty attitude (99% this happens because pt doesn't get what they want). How the predator is trying to play the role of the prey... This woman is digusting, going above and beyond to try and ruin someone's life because he wouldn't dispense her a medication due to his ethical belief. It is inconvenient but show some grace/respect, and quietly go to another pharmacy. Although I don't agree with that pharmacist because he acted base on his belief rather than what the patient need. Still, he's is acting within his rights. I would have not dispense that medication for her because I would not take her word as face value, will dispense that med after I verify with the doctor. Either way, she's not getting that med until the next day.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Drugs = tools. Would not be one to interfere with Physician-Patient relationship simply due to morals/ethics...if the wish was Physician Assisted Suicide & everything was documented accordingly, so be it (if it were legal in my state that is). Not enough time in the day to confuse myself by following religious beliefs

Read that to yourself very slowly.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

So I read a different article about this and apparently there were other pharmacists working.

Why didn't a different pharmacist dispense it?

According to the AP, Wags released a statement saying that he was the only rph on staff and promptly sent it to another store. Which makes sense. When have you ever seen 3 pharmacists in one store simultaneously?

As far as I can see, the man followed corporate protocol and was within his legal right to do what he did. If the public doesn't like the law, they should organize and change the laws. If they don't like the corporate policy, vote with your dollars and get prescriptions elsewhere. You have the right to do both of those things.

But trying to get a man fired via social media for following what both corporate policy and state law say he had the right to do is simply wrong. The internet has basically enabled mob rule to become a thing.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

She said she's humiliated? She most likely went bonkers in the pharmacy and felt humiliated afterward because of her rude/nasty attitude (99% this happens because pt doesn't get what they want). How the predator is trying to play the role of the prey... This woman is digusting, going above and beyond to try and ruin someone's life because he wouldn't dispense her a medication due to his ethical belief. It is inconvenient but show some grace/respect, and quietly go to another pharmacy. Although I don't agree with that pharmacist because he acted base on his belief rather than what the patient need. Still, he's is acting within his rights. I would have not dispense that medication for her because I would not take her word as face value, will dispense that med after I verify with the doctor. Either way, she's not getting that med until the next day.

We have no idea how she acted in the store. Let's not just make things up.

 

[johnpharm01]

What bothers me is the belief that my dr wrote the script you fill it. Every time I heard this in retail I wish I had a blanket waiver of liability. This case may be about personal beliefs but what about professional ones.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Read that to yourself very slowly.

Oh hahaha...

 

[wagrxm2000]

According to the AP, Wags released a statement saying that he was the only rph on staff and promptly sent it to another store. Which makes sense. When have you ever seen 3 pharmacists in one store simultaneously?

As far as I can see, the man followed corporate protocol and was within his legal right to do what he did. If the public doesn't like the law, they should organize and change the laws. If they don't like the corporate policy, vote with your dollars and get prescriptions elsewhere. You have the right to do both of those things.

But trying to get a man fired via social media for following what both corporate policy and state law say he had the right to do is simply wrong. The internet has basically enabled mob rule to become a thing.

Yeah I'm beginning to think more and more it's being overly exaggerated on what actually happened.

Does anyone have a link from the pharmacists side?

While I hate all the media this is getting, it just shows people need to keep their beliefs to themselves and not let it affect others.

As is known I have strong opinions but I have never once let a customer hear them. People are such delicate snowflakes now. It's good to at least hear some are defending him.

I read someone wrote why is ok for a restaurant to tell Sarah Sanders to leave but it's not ok for a pharmacist to deny a prescription.

 

[W19]

What bothers me is the belief that my dr wrote the script you fill it. Every time I heard this in retail I wish I had a blanket waiver of liability. This case may be about personal beliefs but what about professional ones.

Medicine in the the US has done a great job in promoting itself as the ultimate decider of everything related to healthcare. The public does not get that doctors don't call the shot...

Many or even most don't know how long it takes to become a pharmacist and how rigorous pharmacy school was (or still is)..

 

[minette]

I live in Arizona and the city where this took place. I've heard so many different versions in my own news station that I'm not even sure which is the truth. I've heard versions where the pharmacist did absolutely nothing and ignored the patient to giving the patient options to fill it tomorrow hen his partner is in or for him to transfer it to the nearest 24 hour Walgreens for her so she can pick it up tonight. It seems crazy to have two different versions but it is the news.

Either way, the Supreme Court just provided two rulings that contradict each other. The first is that no pharmacist could deny a prescription for moral and ethical reasons and the second being that a business is within its's rights to deny based on moral and ethical reasons (the cake ruling that just happened). Per the Board, a pharmacist is allowed to deny any prescription they feel is against their moral or ethical values but must provide an alternative for the patient to obtain the medication.

Honestly, my personal belief means nothing so I'm not even going to entertain it. I was pissed off when this was in the news and more pissed off when it went national. We aren't forcing doctors to perform abortions, but maybe we should, since a pharmacist can't deny a prescription for the same reason. Every argument I got into with people was that a pharmacist HAS to dispense what the doctor ordered without question. The whole public view of what pharmacists do is completely skewed and maybe that is what needs to change. Why the hell bother having DUR checks or even bother counseling if we have to dispense it anyways, in the land of public opinion?

On a side note, all I got out of this fiasco was that people are only tolerant when it fits their own beliefs and those that don't share their beliefs deserve to be taken out back and shot.

Definitely agree! I also live in Phoenix and it was very frustrating to hear all the ignorant comments on the radio today. I worked at that store before and there is another Walgreens 10mins where the medication could have been filled. And now people are even going after the pharmacist family!

 

[BenJammin]

Catholics come in both liberal and conservative varieties, you also said hospital pharmacists, Catholics are christians, and I specifically said it was a small subset that both had objections to birth control for their personal use and would refuse to dispense

Even then, they can certainly open their own pharmacy or try to find an employer that is willing to accommodate them

To be fair, the Arizona pharmacist IS working for an employer that is accommodating his religious beliefs.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

The difference is that this pharmacist exercised his beliefs. Just because you would fill a script doesn't mean I would. Pharmacists aren't lemmings. I have read this article and the pharmacist in question acted within the law and company policy, so whats the problem? Its the same old dr writes the rxs the pharmacist fills them.

we won't even need to give a reason why we refuse to fill. same reason why i wouldn't have filled a questionable C2 script. Interesting point is that how did the pharmacist even know she was using this as abortion purposes? somehow, this feels like a hipaa violation lol

 

[wucool33]

we won't even need to give a reason why we refuse to fill. same reason why i wouldn't have filled a questionable C2 script. Interesting point is that how did the pharmacist even know she was using this as abortion purposes? somehow, this feels like a hipaa violation lol

Stfu about HIPPA violations already!!! OMG, who do you guys think pharmacists are? Janitors?!

 

[owlegrad]

Stfu about HIPPA violations already!!! OMG, who do you guys think pharmacists are? Janitors?!

I figured that had to be sarcasm, especially since the woman in the article was specifically NOT using the medication "as abortion purposes".

 

[wucool33]

I figured that had to be sarcasm, especially since the woman in the article was specifically NOT using the medication "as abortion purposes".

I don’t think he was being sarcastic... especially from looking at all his other posts, I don’t think he’s all there.

 

[PharmDminus]

That's the thing though, the Bible says a whole lot more that people don't follow. Shouldn't they not dispense birth control or pde5 inhibitors?

You can't pick and choose from the Bible.

what does the Bible say about birth control or pde5 inhibitors???

 

[wagrxm2000]

what does the Bible say about birth control or pde5 inhibitors???

I don't follow the Bible but I thought it condemned premarital sex.

 

[Mad Jack]

The goal is not to prevent the patient from getting the medication, it is to stay true to strong beliefs. In this case the pharmacist offered to call around to find a pharmacy that may fill it. It maybe difficult to believe but some people have strong values.

There is no value that states a woman cannot safely medically manage her miscarriage. This is an already deceased life, this isn't a moral thing, this is a "we're trying to minimize the risk of death from retained products of conception" thing. Any pharmacist this ignorant shouldn't be allowed to practice, because if enough of them are clustered in an area, it becomes a real barrier to care that could cost lives.

When your "pro-life" beliefs could put a woman's life at risk to save no life at all based on no doctrine whatsoever of any branch of any religion I'm familiar with, you're not pro-life, you're an ignorant person unfit to have the lives of others in your hands.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

There is no value that states a woman cannot safely medically manage her miscarriage. This is an already deceased life, this isn't a moral thing, this is a "we're trying to minimize the risk of death from retained products of conception" thing. Any pharmacist this ignorant shouldn't be allowed to practice, because if enough of them are clustered in an area, it becomes a real barrier to care that could cost lives.

When your "pro-life" beliefs could put a woman's life at risk to save no life at all based on no doctrine whatsoever of any branch of any religion I'm familiar with, you're not pro-life, you're an ignorant person unfit to have the lives of others in your hands.

Hyperbole like this serves no purpose. Back in the real world, she drove down the street and got the mediation that day. This is a suburb of Phoenix and a very tiny minority of pharmacists would do this. She was at zero risk of not being able to get the medication.

 

[Mad Jack]

Hyperbole like this serves no purpose. Back in the real world, she drove down the street and got the mediation that day. This is a suburb of Phoenix and a very tiny minority of pharmacists would do this. She was at zero risk of not being able to get the medication.

The point is that not every area has that much access. Rural conservatice areas could leave a woman like this ****ed

 

[wagrxm2000]

The point is that not every area has that much access. Rural conservatice areas could leave a woman like this ****ed

Like always we're going to talk about an extremely small population to prove our point.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

The point is that not every area has that much access. Rural conservatice areas could leave a woman like this ****ed

Okay. But this person took a job in a major metro with a company that allows this sort of thing in a state that grants him the right to do it in.

If religious people are going to practice pharmacy, then he literally picked the perfect place to do it. He got to not participate in an activity he didn't want to...the patient still got their drug. It seems like a pretty good outcome to me.

I've said it a million times. Something about this issue makes people go beyond reason. Female reproduction is the one issue where liberals are as off the rails insane as Trump supporters are on immigration.

 

[Momus]

Pharmacist is at no fault. He exercised his right. This woman is a *****. End of story.