Walk me through life of a late 30s med student...

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southpawcannon

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I love medicine but I hope someday as a male to be a father and husband and have time for his family. I'm 31, soon to be 32. I might be accepted by the time I'm 34, get out of med school at 38, then finish residency at 42 or 43. For those with families, do you regret the decision to have gone through medical school around those ages? How has the financial strain been? I worry a little about being a 43 year old man with 300+k of debt to my name, not being able to provide well for a family or even have a home likes many other people who are a bit more settled in life. I guess I just have fears and want some feedback from you all. Thanks.

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I am a little biased as a female, and don't want to start controversy but: I think it will be easier to do because you're a dude. Go for it.
It will certainly be easier if you marry a working woman (as a student I'm mooching off my husband); being able to live comfortably takes a lot of stress away. Yes loans will be absurd but that's the least of your worries. You can def be a dad while in school.
 
I love medicine but I hope someday as a male to be a father and husband and have time for his family. I'm 31, soon to be 32. I might be accepted by the time I'm 34, get out of med school at 38, then finish residency at 42 or 43. For those with families, do you regret the decision to have gone through medical school around those ages? How has the financial strain been? I worry a little about being a 43 year old man with 300+k of debt to my name, not being able to provide well for a family or even have a home likes many other people who are a bit more settled in life. I guess I just have fears and want some feedback from you all. Thanks.


Anything can be done if you have the support. This is a very inspirational blog I found. The author emailed me back and he said he loves what he does. It was a super hard journey but was all worthwhile. http://hardlifeonanisland.blogspot.com/

Being a woman is no harder than being male. I think it's the pressure that women put on themselves to be the nurturer. I have learned to let that go and trust my husband on doing a great job and not always be the one to jump and do everything. Don't put an age limit on it. You'll get through your journey at the age you are supposed to. I though I would be in med school by now and I'm 37 but oh well. Better to get good grades and take your time. Things always have a way of working themselves out.

~M
 
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I started medical school at 32 (as the mother) finished at 37 (yes it took me 5 yrs) and finished residency at 40.

I was homeless as one time in my life and barely scraped by making $200/week

I have 220K in student loan debt and have no problem making the payments

I have 2 kids and a husband who have a great life now that we are all finished. We struggled in medical school but made it through.

I never worry about money anymore.

I make my own schedule

I don't have a great 401K (see the FM forum) but I would rather spend my money right now doing things with my kids befroe they leave home.

I will always have a job. I will never be homeless again. I will never be poor again.

I MADE AN INVESTMENT IN MYSELF AND LOVING IT EVERYDAY.
 
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I have documented struggles through my journey along the way, but I went back to undergrad at 35, med school at 39, and I will be 46 when I finish residency.

I am now $300K in debt, but looking at jobs that pay pretty darn well with a 7on/7off schedule. We plan on living in a modest house, paying off the mountains of credit card debt and student loans we have accrued along the way, save for retirement, and still have money to enjoy life immensely.

While we have gutted our savings, our future has truly never looked brighter.
 
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I started medical school at 32 (as the mother) finished at 37 (yes it took me 5 yrs) and finished residency at 40.

I was homeless as one time in my life and barely scraped by making $200/week

I have 220K in student loan debt and have no problem making the payments

I have 2 kids and a husband who have a great life now that we are all finished. We struggled in medical school but made it through.

I never worry about money anymore.

I make my own schedule

I don't have a great 401K (see the FM forum) but I would rather spend my money right now doing things with my kids befroe they leave home.

I will always have a job. I will never be homeless again. I will never be poor again.

I MADE AN INVESTMENT IN MYSELF AND LOVING IT EVERYDAY.

I'm just curious, what are you planning to do about retirement?
 
Man, I'm really impressed by all of you. It makes me feel better that there are people out with who had a more difficult time and succeeded. :)
 
OP - Your timeline matches up with what I did.

I'm married with no kids, have a very supportive wife.
She works, but has a modest salary.
I had a good chunk of savings which helped out a lot.

It's doable if you live modestly, in med school and beyond.
Once an atteding, you will have to get those loans paid off and make saving for retirement a big priority.

In my mind, the finances are the least of your concerns.

Going through this process at a later age can be stressful on relationships.
I guess that's true at any age, but it's hard to "take a step backwards" while your friends have regular schedules, kids, all that other stuff.

I got through it just fine (at least the school part), but I'm not sure I would do it again.

In the end, I think medicine is just a job.
A rewarding and interesting job where you can do a lot of good, but it's still just a job.

You'd have to talk to me in about another 10 years for a real answer about whether I think it was a good idea.
 
I'm not sure why everyonhe on these forums are so hung up on my retirement plan? Dang, I just got out of residency for pete's sate and am trying to pay off all my personal debt I have accrued in the last 15 years. There are other ways to save for retirement other that 401K and IRA that tax you and penalize you.

I am starting a great job here soon that will let me be debt free in 3 years, then I can work on retirement.
 
I'm not sure why everyonhe on these forums are so hung up on my retirement plan? Dang, I just got out of residency for pete's sate and am trying to pay off all my personal debt I have accrued in the last 15 years. There are other ways to save for retirement other that 401K and IRA that tax you and penalize you.

I am starting a great job here soon that will let me be debt free in 3 years, then I can work on retirement.

I'm confused. Your signature shows that you graduated residency in 2009. Did you do another residency or fellowship?
 
No, I got out in 2009. While 3 yrs seems like a long time, its not. I had huge personal debt that I have paid down in that time plus have moved 3 times as well. Maybe my situation is unique but my retirement plan currently is not on the front burner.
 
I'm not sure why everyonhe on these forums are so hung up on my retirement plan? Dang, I just got out of residency for pete's sate and am trying to pay off all my personal debt I have accrued in the last 15 years. There are other ways to save for retirement other that 401K and IRA that tax you and penalize you.

I am starting a great job here soon that will let me be debt free in 3 years, then I can work on retirement.

I think it's a good idea to pay off your debt, but I don't think it's an either or propostion.
Have a plan to pay down debt and save for retirement at the same time.
 
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You asked about life in medschool in your 30's. My kids were toddlers when I decided to go back to school. I had to work really truly hard to stay a hands on dad. I admit my wife carried the weight of day to day parenting, but I was there as much as possible.

What helped me was my decision to try to do almost all of my reading after my children went to bed. Of course, this didn't always work. When tests were looming I had to study when they were awake. I took breaks so I could wrestle or play candyland. I coached T-ball and junior basketball on the weekends and just made it work. I enjoyed it, but also secretly hoped that my kids would remember that dad took the time to do that while he was in medical school. At least I hope that they choose to remember that over the times my office door was closed or my chair was empty at the dinner table.

Medical school was truly tricky with kids, but it was not as hard as I thought it would be (insert all credit to my wife here). Also, I continued to work all the way through medical school which also took time away from the kids. I do not recommend working during medical schol, especially if you have kids.

So, it possible to be older with kids in medical school. With a great spouse, it is even possible to enjoy those years. I can honestly say I feel like a was a good student AND a good dad for the last four years.

I just matched ortho (at the age of 38) and I know it will be an insane schedule. My kids are now in elementary school. They are old enough to understand what I am working towards. They are proud of their dad and know I will attend every one of their events that I can and will spend as much time with them as possible.

Good luck.
 
My husband (now a resident) and I have two children who are now adolescents. We made it through the medical school years without too much trouble, but I have to say that the residency is a whooooole different story. He works all the time (yes, over the 80 hour legal limit but what can you do), I'm sick of being on my own so much with parenting and breadwinning, and teenagers need more time and emotional connection than either of us have left. That's stated pretty baldly, but these years have been awful in a way we couldn't have predicted or even projected from our experience in medical school. Good luck to you.
 
My husband (now a resident) and I have two children who are now adolescents. We made it through the medical school years without too much trouble, but I have to say that the residency is a whooooole different story. He works all the time (yes, over the 80 hour legal limit but what can you do), I'm sick of being on my own so much with parenting and breadwinning, and teenagers need more time and emotional connection than either of us have left. That's stated pretty baldly, but these years have been awful in a way we couldn't have predicted or even projected from our experience in medical school. Good luck to you.

Sorry to hear that you're having such a difficult time!

Do you think that if your husband had started medical school sooner, and you'd experienced residency with your children as 'tweens, that it would have been any better?

If I follow that path I've projected (and am accepted!), then my daughter will be 5 when I start medical school and 9 when I start residency. I'm hoping she'll be old enough to understand the commitment, but not so old as to need the extra emotional support that you're finding your teens need!
 
You're not askin for this. But since the title of your thread doesn't distinguish the parentals from nonparentals and therefore might attract the occasional wandering bachelor or nonprocreater....my counterpoint is this:

Life among young ambitious naivete who still thinks the world comes in discrete solvable units replete with innumerable opportunities for acting out doctor-god fantasy is well...disorienting. For an older dude. Who is all too aware that none of these young ladies would consider shagging him. Even on laundry day with nothing else intriguing going down. Even the one's with a daddy thing might give it a second thought. Because who could muster the energy for legal molestation. With all of this work to slog through. With absolutely no child-like expectation of awesomeness. Just more work. And sleeplessness. Until death.

How do you get excited when the gun goes off and all the fleet-footed youth go for broke as if the approval of some tired schmuck only a few years older than you made some crucial difference to the indifference of nature itself. Ruthlessly robbing us of the necessary innocence to get excited about the Show. That must go on. And on. Endlessly impressing the next ego-assuaged pseudoman in the hierarchy with the longer coat than you.

With full and unblessed knowledge of the gray morass of lazy american unhealth that awaits in thankless throngs of 15 minute paper work frustrated intervals.

Is it a good job. Yes. Better than than guy in a cubicle looking for a Dilbert strip to make sense of the profundity of his boredom. But it's hard to evangelize about.

Sometimes I wish I had some artificial conception of the hereafter. To labor my salvation there in the service of *****s here. But lacking that. And valuing a life in the present. The perpetual life of "future awesome" that never comes... lacks something. Something that will be experienced in eventual shock by some of these expectant youth. For all but the most persistent of pilgrims. And wtf is wrong with those ones anyway.

I am content. Unexcited. And ready for long travels to make good on the tremendous debt. I like my shot. At making good in the only place I've ever felt right in.

But that's about it. No fairy tales. Just wry jokes and even, perhaps monotone, contentment.
 
Sorry to hear that you're having such a difficult time!

Do you think that if your husband had started medical school sooner, and you'd experienced residency with your children as 'tweens, that it would have been any better?

Thanks for the kind thought. Yes, I think it would have been easier had our kids been younger (and/or had we been younger, too). I am particularly haunted by the thought that our oldest will leave home in a few years, and my husband is missing some of this precious (difficult, yes, but precious) time with her. With younger children you can always think "when this is over" and there'll still be a lot of time left.

Also, the type and length of residency probably makes a huge difference. I wish we had taken those characteristics more seriously. When you are new to something and enthusiastic, you think, "it's hard but we can handle it". We can handle it, I guess, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better another way.
 
Thanks for the kind thought. Yes, I think it would have been easier had our kids been younger (and/or had we been younger, too). I am particularly haunted by the thought that our oldest will leave home in a few years, and my husband is missing some of this precious (difficult, yes, but precious) time with her. With younger children you can always think "when this is over" and there'll still be a lot of time left.

Also, the type and length of residency probably makes a huge difference. I wish we had taken those characteristics more seriously. When you are new to something and enthusiastic, you think, "it's hard but we can handle it". We can handle it, I guess, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better another way.

Yeah. Sorry about your hardship. Best of luck working it out. But your story brings it hard home to the gentleman posing the question or any of those in the kid game or aspiring to it in your mid 30's.

To them I'd say wtf are you thinking. We're in a downhill slide. Trying to live the nuclear family myth that was and will be only inhabited by those who spawned the notion--the baby boomers.

For the rest of us. This superhero gig of procreating and going broke while pounding out medical school and residency is just ugly business. You'll age badly and look it. To say nothing of your clogged vasculature and fat compressed vital organs. Trying desperately to get trickles of blood during your air choked miserable sleep.

What's so special about your little seed. That the earth needs another pooping, screaming, peeing, carbon consuming plastic producing primate.

They say parenting is the hardest job in the world. If that's the case, being a resident must be a close second. And doing both is a slow suicide bolstered only by meek superhero mythology and the applause of oprah's audience to your symbolism.

And your 30 going on 40. Hate to say it. Well actually I don't or I wouldn't. But for 99.99% of our biological history you'd be on your last throes. So don't let the excuse of so many more interesting things to do than populate the earth allow your fantasy of just not having met the specialist of so-n-so's convince you that your procreative destiny is just around the next bend. If you wanted to marry and babytize your life and were attracted to the proposition or dare I say the proposition attracted enough to you, you would have done so.

Medical school is full on stuff. So is caring for helpless little humans. Have it both ways at severe impact to you.

The people giving you a glimpse of the horrors of multiplicity in these affairs are being more than gentle. Or perhaps looking rosily on their own demise.

Forty year olds doing the parenting thing is biologically silly. To do that while doing something as biologically silly as the practice of becoming a physician is a fools errand.

Romance it and die slowly if you wish. I'll reconcile myself to the end of my heir's line. And sleep like a baby after my yoga class in a lighter field.

I ain't no damn fool.
 
You know, Abider, since you have all the finer details of balancing med school with children all sorted out for those of us actually willing to do it, one would think your time would be better spent mastering the finer points of grammar and punctuation.
 
You know, Abider, since you have all the finer details of balancing med school with children all sorted out for those of us actually willing to do it, one would think your time would be better spent mastering the finer points of grammar and punctuation.

I wasn't talking to you. I wouldn't tell a deploying soldier what I thought about politics or foreign policy.

I'm talking to all those who farted around in their young adult years enjoying themselves or those who built extensive careers that coming to this one with the lust for procreation that what they're doing is perilous.

I give you the job of editing my posts and pm'ing me the necessary changes if you want it. Otherwise i could care less about your sensitivity on this issue. The precious nature of your own children to you is not in question. Why is that lost on the parenting class? Not everything is about little Matt in the Hat to those of us who don't change his diaper.
 
You know, Abider, since you have all the finer details of balancing med school with children all sorted out for those of us actually willing to do it, one would think your time would be better spent mastering the finer points of grammar and punctuation.

Oh...and i can assure you. I quite willingly no nothing about balancing these. You'd think for someone so keen on correcting grammar you might put a bit more wit in your smartalleck game.
 
Sorry to continue diverging from the thread, but I'm amused to see Abider's post critiqued on stylistic grounds. It is entirely reasonable to disagree with or dislike what he has written, but straying from the conventions of grammar and punctuation does not always equate to some some lack of mastery over the language.

On merit, Abider has now contributed a couple of well-written comments to this thread.
 
Yes, to give credit where credit is due, there were some well-written retorts. Kudos.

My sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with the relationship with my children. I think all of us, whether we are non-traditional students or not, have been inundated with unsolicited advice during our med school journey. I guess I just wasn't expecting that in a thread titled, "Walk me through life of a late 30s med student. . ." we would get a great lecture from someone who (only going by the persona presented on this website) is not even in their 30s.

I'll pass on the offer to edit your posts, thanks. I would be forced to edit both punctuation and content. Once I removed the drivel and pseudo-enlightened nonsense from the post to which I responded yesterday, all we would be left with is, "I ain't no damn fool."

All evidence to the contrary.

Nonetheless, good luck in your journey. Luckily for me, this is where our paths diverge.
 
Yes, to give credit where credit is due, there were some well-written retorts. Kudos.

My sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with the relationship with my children. I think all of us, whether we are non-traditional students or not, have been inundated with unsolicited advice during our med school journey. I guess I just wasn't expecting that in a thread titled, "Walk me through life of a late 30s med student. . ." we would get a great lecture from someone who (only going by the persona presented on this website) is not even in their 30s.

I'll pass on the offer to edit your posts, thanks. I would be forced to edit both punctuation and content. Once I removed the drivel and pseudo-enlightened nonsense from the post to which I responded yesterday, all we would be left with is, "I ain't no damn fool."

All evidence to the contrary.

Nonetheless, good luck in your journey. Luckily for me, this is where our paths diverge.

Keep in mind I am in some sense honoring your sacrifice. And your future one. For which you will most certainly receive your scars for. By walking the OP through the potential pitfalls of fighting a 2 front war. Not intending to lecture or intellectualize but to perceive digest and in some sense argue with the feelings i have when I see you and your kid having fun and playing together.

I'm nearly 40. And I laugh at your condescension. Talking about my mental age through the prism of your cultural norms. Again which I am in some sense praising, having your life in order and family support established before venturing this way.

But I'm also advocating looking the cultural mythology of "having it all" in the face. Not in this day as the pressures on the nuclear middle class family model are boiling over. I'm also making pointed metaphors about the physical decline I see in even youthful bodies without children in the stress and sedentary study marathon that awaits as a warning.

I get this this pseudo-intellectual charge a lot on sdn. I am not sure what to make of it. I don't prize intellectualism and haven't read a non-medical book in 2 years. I only perceive myself as stubbornly independent. oh well ? just another person i failed to impress. something I am willing to lecture on giving up the struggle for. I'll pm you my ppt.

To the OP. You cannot have it all. Or if you do your co-residents pay the price for your biological imperative. Try being one of the only males in a baby-happy peds residency if you think the biological imperative is all willy-nilly. And that's just the person to your left and right, if the relation to your own self is as unpalatable as it for matt and his hat.
 
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To the OP. You cannot have it all. Or if you do your co-residents pay the price for your biological imperative. Try being one of the only males in a baby-happy peds residency if you think the biological imperative is all willy-nilly.

This (see above in bold), I believe this to be ultimately true. As a 31 yr old single female medical student, I struggle with the reality that I may never have children with this path. I think this is simply a reality. To gain one thing you give up something else. There is always a price even if you think there is not. As painful as a price that may be, it is one someone may have to come to accept. Of course that is just one price, everyone gives up something a little different because everyone is different.

To the OP, do your emotional/financial/personal life math carefully or to the best of your ability before you tread down this path. That is the only advice I think that I can legitimately give at this point.
 
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