WAMC 3.8/522?

[zen_artist]

Edited for privacy

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[Putkernerinthehall]

Disclaimer: Just an applicant (successful), not an Ad Com! Sometimes I think you can be in a spot where you have stats for top tier but not an overly impressive research background that some top schools value and maybe not overly strong clinical / non-clinical hours. Then for the mid/low tiers your high stats might get you resource protected, and / or your EC's might not be strong enough for some schools. I'd add Wash U in St. Louis and Seton Hall in NJ. Maybe U. of Maryland. Your clinical hours look pretty good by mid-2021. Non-clinical hours would be good to focus on (which you mentioned).

As for GPA and MCAT, they're both important but you are strong on both fronts I can't see how one drives your school list that much over the other. I personally think MCAT matters more but that's debatable. I think if your 3.8 sGPA is near the median for MSAR, you're good.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I don't think you will be yield protected any of the schools you mentioned. Your stats and ECs may be not strong enough for some T20s.

Disclaimer: not an applicant nor adcom

 

[zen_artist]

I am neither an applicant nor an adcom, but I don't think your stats are high enough or ECs are super strong to be yield protected by T20s.

I hope it didn't come off like I was suggesting that! Rather the opposite: I feel like I might be yield protected by Penn State, Sidney Kimmel, Georgetown etc. while NOT being competitive enough for T20s. Those are all schools I would love to go to so I will likely have to put in extra effort to get an II from them.

Disclaimer: Just an applicant (successful), not an Ad Com! Sometimes I think you can be in a spot where you have stats for top tier but not an overly impressive research background that some top schools value and maybe not overly strong clinical / non-clinical hours. Then for the mid/low tiers your high stats might get you resource protected, and / or your EC's might not be strong enough for some schools. I'd add Wash U in St. Louis and Seton Hall in NJ. Maybe U. of Maryland. Your clinical hours look pretty good by mid-2021. Non-clinical hours would be good to focus on (which you mentioned).

As for GPA and MCAT, they're both important but you are strong on both fronts I can't see how one drives your school list that much over the other. I personally think MCAT matters more but that's debatable. I think if your 3.8 sGPA is near the median for MSAR, you're good.

Added to the list! I recently got advice to focus on non-clinicals and shadowing so that's exactly what I'm hoping to do

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I hope it didn't come off like I was suggesting that! Rather the opposite: I feel like I might be yield protected by Penn State, Sidney Kimmel, Georgetown etc. while NOT being competitive enough for T20s. Those are all schools I would love to go to so I will likely have to put in extra effort to get an II from them.


Added to the list! I recently got advice to focus on non-clinicals and shadowing so that's exactly what I'm hoping to do

my mistake, I read it wrong and corrected my response quickly but not quick enough for you .

 

[zen_artist]

my mistake, I read it wrong and corrected my response quickly but not quick enough for you .

Haha, no worries! Are there any T20s in particular that would be a waste of money? I'm not married to any of them but I do have a soft spot for Duke.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Haha, no worries! Are there any T20s in particular that would be a waste of money? I'm not married to any of them but I do have a soft spot for Duke.

I don't think any are waste but it comes down to essays and LORs so apply broadly and don't get attached to any particular school. I heard some schools like Chicago are heavy on service so not sure your hours are enough for them. I would say once you cross 20 applications you may get secondaries fatigue so prewrite as much you can.

 

[zen_artist]

I don't anything are waste but it comes down to essays and LORs so apply broadly and don't get attached to any particular school. I heard some schools like Chicago are heavy on service so not sure your hours are enough for them. I would say once you cross 20 applications you may get secondaries fatigue so prewrite as much you can.

Will do. Thanks!

 

[Banco]

OP, you have excellent stats and great activities - very well rounded. You will assuredly get interviews at the 2 Rutgers, and will also nab some top 20s. Your list is very good. Get rid of UConn, Albany, Drexel though. Consider adding: Harvard, Hopkins, Emory, Northwestern if you'd like. I would stick to around 25 total.


I had a VERY similar application (your stats are actually better) and got a few top 20 interviews and acceptances, as well as my state schools. Keep up your activities, write good essays, get good letters, apply early, shoot your shot, you'll be fine.

 

[Goro]

Hi all, please excuse my neuroticism. I'm finding myself in the tricky spot where a lot of other SDNers and Redditers find themselves - my stats are high-ish, but my ECs are pretty average. I would be happy at any US MD program in the Northeast but I am really prioritizing unranked P/F curricula, although I am applying broadly.

My question is - does my list account for yield protection at mid-tier schools as well as being somewhat competitive for T20s? My GPA is good but not a 4.0, and it falls in the 25th to 90th percentiles of everywhere I am applying. But, my MCAT is well above the 90th percentiles for many of the lower tier schools on my list. Should I apply according to my GPA or MCAT?

State/Country of Residence: NJ
Ties to other States/Regions: none
URM? (Y/N): No, ORM
Year in School: Junior at public undergrad
Undergraduate Major(s)/Minor(s): Philosophy + Biology double major
GPA: 3.88 cGPA, 3.8 sGPA (no significant upward trend)
MCAT: 522
Research Experience:
150 hours at a behavioral/clinical research lab that ended when my PI moved to a different state
~100 hours doing online literature reviews and presentations for a neuroscience lab
200 hours in same lab this semester working on a few different projects
projected ~450 hours from this summer to next spring
I will be doing my Honors thesis in this lab which includes a poster presentation and defense of my thesis next May

Publications/Abstracts/Posters (include how you were credited e.g. first author, second author, etc.): Not sure if this counts...an MD invited me to write a clinical literature review last summer. I only got an acknowledgment in this journal (despite doing 80% of the work, sadly). I will certainly be presenting a poster presentation next May, although that is well after I apply.

Clinical Experience (paid or volunteer):
~300 hours as an EMS Volunteer off-campus (note: I wasn't an EMT, I was CPR/First aid certified and assisted in patient history, CPR, etc)
in EMT class now and projected 300-350 hours as an EMT from this May to next July

Physician Shadowing: 20 hours shadowing an allergist, 20-30 hours this semester shadowing an EM doc

Non-Clinical Volunteering:
~30 hours as a tutor for Chem, Stat, Psych, Orgo
20 hours as a program assistant for a tutoring program that worked with underserved elementary school children in my college town
100 hours from high school to college as a Director and judge for my state's middle school Debate league
~50 hours writing for my school's newspaper
This semester I'm planning on doing 50-75 hours of either volunteering at a food pantry or mutual aid grocery delivery fund to underserved populations

Other Extracurricular Activities: President of a left leaning political club on campus, connected to the mutual aid grocery delivery EC
Other Employment History: Worked in fast food for 2 summers (2018, 2019)
Immediate family members in medicine? (Y/N): No
Medical School List:

1. Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson
2. New Jersey Medical School
3. Cooper Medical School at Rowan University
4. Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
5. Drexel University College of Medicine
6. Lewis Katz SoM at Temple University
7. Georgetown University
8. University of Connecticut
9. Penn State University College of Medicine
10. Albany Medical College
11. Wake Forest School of Medicine of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center
12. Donald and Barbara Zucker SoM at Hofstra/Northwell
13. Renaissance SoM at Stony Brook
14. Albert Einstein College of Medicine
15. University of Rochester
16. Tufts University
17. University of Pittsburgh
18. University of Michigan
19. University of Virginia
20. Icahn SoM at Mount Sinai
21. New York University
22. Yale
23. Perelman SoM at the University of Pennsylvania
24. Duke
25. Boston University
26. University of Chicago Pritzker
27. Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons
28. Weill Cornell Medicine

Your non-clinical ECs need beefing up and you really have to get off campus and out of your comfort zone. Engage in service to others less fortunate than yourself and do yourself a favor and don't engage in academic venues.

Bolded schools are more likely to resource protect you out, and in addition, a number of those are service loving schools.

 

[efle]

OP you look solid, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by your yield on t20s. Especially the stats oriented ones. You still have the Jersey state school option as high yield mid tier - I'd apply to some others to be safe but you should be good to go.

 

[zen_artist]

OP, you have excellent stats and great activities - very well rounded. You will assuredly get interviews at the 2 Rutgers, and will also nab some top 20s. Your list is very good. Get rid of UConn, Albany, Drexel though. Consider adding: Harvard, Hopkins, Emory, Northwestern if you'd like. I would stick to around 25 total.


I had a VERY similar application (your stats are actually better) and got a few top 20 interviews and acceptances, as well as my state schools. Keep up your activities, write good essays, get good letters, apply early, shoot your shot, you'll be fine.

OP you look solid, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by your yield on t20s. Especially the stats oriented ones. You still have the Jersey state school option as high yield mid tier - I'd apply to some others to be safe but you should be good to go.

Thanks for the vote of confidence!! I love my state schools but would definitely love to shoot my shot at some of those top-tier schools. Will make those adjustments!

 

[zen_artist]

Your non-clinical ECs need beefing up and you really have to get off campus and out of your comfort zone. Engage in service to others less fortunate than yourself and do yourself a favor and don't engage in academic venues.

Bolded schools are more likely to resource protect you out, and in addition, a number of those are service loving schools.

I never expected a response from THE Goro. Thanks for the advice - someone recently told me the same thing and quoted you. Would delivering groceries to families who can't afford them and the vulnerable population throughout NJ count as off-campus and out of my comfort zone? I was debating between that and Meals on Wheels.

Also, I'm very open to taking Gtown, UConn, Albany and Penn State off my list but I'm worried I'm not leaving myself much leeway with mid-tiers. Are there any other mid-tiers you would recommend replacing them with?

 

[Dr.K124]

I never expected a response from THE Goro. Thanks for the advice - someone recently told me the same thing and quoted you. Would delivering groceries to families who can't afford them throughout NJ count as off-campus and out of my comfort zone? I was debating between that and Meals on Wheels.

Also, I'm very open to taking Gtown, UConn, Albany and Penn State off my list but I'm worried I'm not leaving myself much leeway with mid-tiers. Are there any other mid-tiers you would recommend replacing them with?

Both of those experiences are excellent and show commitment to the underserved. If you have the time, I'd actually do both.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I never expected a response from THE Goro. Thanks for the advice - someone recently told me the same thing and quoted you. Would delivering groceries to families who can't afford them and the vulnerable population throughout NJ count as off-campus and out of my comfort zone? I was debating between that and Meals on Wheels.

Also, I'm very open to taking Gtown, UConn, Albany and Penn State off my list but I'm worried I'm not leaving myself much leeway with mid-tiers. Are there any other mid-tiers you would recommend replacing them with?

I would keep Penn state given it's your neighboring state even there is chance of yield protection.

 

[spottedcory]

I hope it didn't come off like I was suggesting that! Rather the opposite: I feel like I might be yield protected by Penn State, Sidney Kimmel, Georgetown etc.

It really depends on how well you can market your fit to the school, through opportunities on the secondary (answer optional questions, like with SKMC's secondary) and your app. I have higher stats by a tad and got my first II from one of these schools, and was subsequently waitlisted, I strongly feel because of a very weak interview (as opposed to yield protection). I think as long as you pick schools that you fit and feel strongly about, you don't need to worry as much about yield protection.

 

[zen_artist]

Both of those experiences are excellent and show commitment to the underserved. If you have the time, I'd actually do both.

Awesome - I'm currently coordinating both of those schedules and will try to do both!

I would keep Penn state given it's your neighboring state even there is chance of yield protection.

That's a good point, I will keep it on. My list is now short of Albany, UConn, Drexel and Temple.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Awesome - I'm currently coordinating both of those schedules and will try to do both!

That's a good point, I will keep it on. My list is now short of Albany, UConn, Drexel and Temple.

Temple may not yield protect. I know someone with higher stats than you getting A from there (but they are PA resident).

 

[Banco]

Keep Temple.


With that I think you'll have enough mid tiers:

1. Penn State University College of Medicine
2. Wake Forest School of Medicine of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center
3. Donald and Barbara Zucker SoM at Hofstra/Northwell
4. Renaissance SoM at Stony Brook
5. Albert Einstein College of Medicine
6. University of Rochester
7. Tufts University
8. Boston U
9. Jeff
10. GT
11. Temple

These plus your state schools should give you a good cushion to apply to whatever upper tiers you want.

 

[spottedcory]

Keep Temple.


With that I think you'll have enough mid tiers:

1. Penn State University College of Medicine
2. Wake Forest School of Medicine of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center
3. Donald and Barbara Zucker SoM at Hofstra/Northwell
4. Renaissance SoM at Stony Brook
5. Albert Einstein College of Medicine
6. University of Rochester
7. Tufts University
8. Boston U
9. Jeff
10. GT
11. Temple

These plus your state schools should give you a good cushion to apply to whatever upper tiers you want.

I wanted to comment that OP should only apply to BU if they have a strong track record/background of serving underserved populations

 

[Goro]

I never expected a response from THE Goro. Thanks for the advice - someone recently told me the same thing and quoted you. Would delivering groceries to families who can't afford them and the vulnerable population throughout NJ count as off-campus and out of my comfort zone? I was debating between that and Meals on Wheels.

Also, I'm very open to taking Gtown, UConn, Albany and Penn State off my list but I'm worried I'm not leaving myself much leeway with mid-tiers. Are there any other mid-tiers you would recommend replacing them with?

Emory
U Cincy
OH State
UCSF
Keck
Brown
UCLA

 

[Lifeblood_20]

OP I have slightly higher stats than you and roughly similar levels of ECs, nothing mind-blowing; applied late-ish to 25 schools, and am having a nice cycle (11 IIs, 5 from “T20s”). I think you will too. (Here's my WAMC in case you want more insight.)

 

[zen_artist]

OP I have slightly higher stats than you and roughly similar levels of ECs, nothing mind-blowing; applied late-ish to 25 schools, and am having a nice cycle (11 IIs, 5 from “T20s”). I think you will too. (Here's my WAMC in case you want more insight.)

Thanks! Do you think your research helped? I’m comparatively light on research too which is stressing me out.

I also received what I think is bad advice, which is to take a gap year and add more clinical hours. Is this necessary? I’d rather not if I can avoid it but would also rather apply with a solid app than be a reapplicant later.

 

[Banco]

You have hundreds of hours as an EMS volunteer with active patient care and enough shadowing. You don't need a gap year for clinical experience.

Also your research experience is good - especially if you finish it as an honor's thesis/poster presentation. Having publications is not the norm even at the top 20s.

 

[zen_artist]

You have hundreds of hours as an EMS volunteer with active patient care and enough shadowing. You don't need a gap year for clinical experience.

Also your research experience is good - especially if you finish it as an honor's thesis/poster presentation. Having publications is not the norm even at the top 20s.

Thanks, I'll stop being neurotic now!

Here's a somewhat finalized list:

1. Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson
2. New Jersey Medical School
3. Cooper Medical School at Rowan University
4. Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
5. Georgetown University
6. Penn State University College of Medicine
7. Wake Forest School of Medicine of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center
8. Donald and Barbara Zucker SoM at Hofstra/Northwell
9. University of Maryland
10. Renaissance SoM at Stony Brook
11. Lewis Katz SoM at Temple University
12. Albert Einstein College of Medicine
13. Tufts University
14. University of Rochester
15. University of Pittsburgh
16. University of Michigan
17. University of Virginia
18. Icahn SoM at Mount Sinai
19. New York University
20. Yale
21. Perelman SoM at the University of Pennsylvania
22. Duke University
23. Boston University
24. University of Chicago Pritzker
25. Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons
26. Weill Cornell Medicine
27. Wash. U in St. Louis
28. Johns Hopkins University
29. Emory University

I may end up dropping Tufts, BU for low yield to shrink my list. I'm going to start pre-writing now.

 

[efle]

Thanks, I'll stop being neurotic now!

Here's a somewhat finalized list:

1. Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson
2. New Jersey Medical School
3. Cooper Medical School at Rowan University
4. Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
5. Georgetown University
6. Penn State University College of Medicine
7. Wake Forest School of Medicine of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center
8. Donald and Barbara Zucker SoM at Hofstra/Northwell
9. University of Maryland
10. Renaissance SoM at Stony Brook
11. Lewis Katz SoM at Temple University
12. Albert Einstein College of Medicine
13. Tufts University
14. University of Rochester
15. University of Pittsburgh
16. University of Michigan
17. University of Virginia
18. Icahn SoM at Mount Sinai
19. New York University
20. Yale
21. Perelman SoM at the University of Pennsylvania
22. Duke University
23. Boston University
24. University of Chicago Pritzker
25. Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons
26. Weill Cornell Medicine
27. Wash. U in St. Louis
28. Johns Hopkins University
29. Emory University

I may end up dropping Tufts, BU for low yield to shrink my list. I'm going to start pre-writing now...

I'd make sure Northwestern and Vandy make it in there too. They love the high numbers.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I'd make sure Northwestern and Vandy make it in there too. They love the high numbers.

I agree Northwestern and Vandy are worth adding but may need to cut couple of them and keep it close to 25.

 

[spottedcory]

I'd make sure Northwestern and Vandy make it in there too. They love the high numbers.

Same with Ohio, and I'd feel like Ohio is a better bet than some of the NY/Philly mid/low tiers on there

 

[Banco]

Same with Ohio, and I'd feel like Ohio is a better bet than some of the NY/Philly mid/low tiers on there

But then he'd have to live in Ohio...

 

[zen_artist]

Lol that's what I thought at first too, but after looking at my options more, I realized that affordability of Columbus, in-state tuition after 1 year, and pretty high rank beats out many of the low tier/low yield schools for me

I would definitely prefer to stay on the East coast since that's where my family is; is OSU significantly better than say, RWJ or NJMS in NJ? I realize that it's ranked higher on US News but I would be leaving a support system behind.

I added Northwestern and Vandy for now but as EdgeTrimmer mentions I'll likely have to cut some of my other top tiers to make it work. With that being said my biggest issue with a big list isn't cost but the time commitment of writing secondaries, so hopefully I'm able to prewrite them all and make it work.

If I did have to cut some top/mid tiers, I think Columbia and Tufts would be first to go since I've visited those campuses and didn't love them.

 

[spottedcory]

I would definitely prefer to stay on the East coast since that's where my SO and family are; is OSU significantly better than say, RWJ or NJMS in NJ? I realize that it's ranked higher on US News but I would be leaving a support system behind.

I added Northwestern and Vandy for now but as EdgeTrimmer mentions I'll likely have to cut some of my other top tiers to make it work. With that being said my biggest issue with a big list isn't cost but the time commitment of writing secondaries, so hopefully I'm able to prewrite them all and make it work.

If I did have to cut some top/mid tiers, I think Columbia and Tufts would be first to go since I've visited those campuses and didn't love them.

Yeah I believe osu is better in rank but my main reason for applying was cuz I picked some schools solely based on what I thought my chances were. I applied to schools for stat focus and decent post-II A rate even though I really really am not a fan of the their locations. But now that those are my only options, I'm coming around to them and so happy I added them haha. I guess my point is to balance your list with your favorite schools (esp bc geography) with ones that you think will like your app, esp since support system is a similar plane ride away once you get out of driving distance.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I would definitely prefer to stay on the East coast since that's where my SO and family are; is OSU significantly better than say, RWJ or NJMS in NJ? I realize that it's ranked higher on US News but I would be leaving a support system behind.

I added Northwestern and Vandy for now but as EdgeTrimmer mentions I'll likely have to cut some of my other top tiers to make it work. With that being said my biggest issue with a big list isn't cost but the time commitment of writing secondaries, so hopefully I'm able to prewrite them all and make it work.

If I did have to cut some top/mid tiers, I think Columbia and Tufts would be first to go since I've visited those campuses and didn't love them.

Be aware Vandy has autobiography essay which lot of applicants don't like writing.

 

[zen_artist]

Hi, going to open this back up really quick for a couple of questions:

This semester my commitments seem to be:

5-ish hours/week of being paired with a specific person who needs employment help, grocery/prescription delivery, etc.
15 hours/week of research (lab work, literature review, presentations)
2-3 hrs/week tutoring
EMT course (15-20 hours a week, big commitment) + EMS shifts as a non-EMT volunteer
2-3 hrs/week Global Health Case Competition - I applied for and was accepted into a competition where I'm placed on a team of undergrad/grad students and we are searching for solutions to problems in our city. It ends in a presentation and 3 teams are given grants to further their ideas.
+ full load semester

1. does EMT class count as an EC/experience of any sort? I feel silly asking this but just wanted to make sure I'm not missing out on hours. It's in person, we are doing full clinical scenarios/practicals + occasional mandated ride alongs with ALS
2. Does the global health case comp count as an EC? I don't think it would fit in leadership nor any sort of volunteering. Just regular "EC activities" maybe?
3. Would anyone be willing to look over my (very very very) rough draft of my PS? As a philosophy major I genuinely can't tell if I am leaving professional persuasive letter territory and heading into philo paper territory.

 

[Banco]

I would combine the EMS classes + volunteering shifts as one experience, in which case it definitely counts; just explain the responsibilities in the description.

The Global case competition would be a regular on campus EC.

Also don't drop columbia if you prefer the east coast. It's an amazing school.

Secondly, you're lucky in that your state schools RWJ and NJMS are really good and have great match lists every year.