Medical WAMC as an International Student wanting to pursue MD-PhD?

[Mr.Smile12]

Dear SDN Consultants,

I am a international student looking at MD-PhD (also considering MD/DO) programs in the upcoming 20-21 cycle. Is there any chances I would get into any program at all with the status below? What schools would you suggest?

1. Female, asian, international, undergrad is a state school
2. sGPA 3.88 cGPA 3.90 MCAT 515
3. research experience: I'm in two different labs for two years, co-author for one publication and one conference submission, many poster presentations
4. clinical volunteer: 150hrs at the university's hospital, 20hr at a mobile clinic
5. nonclinical volunteer: will have 100hrs at a shelter house when I apply (just started this semester so may get labeled as box-checker?)
6. shadowing: 40hrs with a surgeon
7: leadership: ambassador for the university's undergraduate research center, unit mentor for the ECT unit volunteers

My problem is that my application is so generic. Pretty much all of my stats are somewhat weak and I know that MD-PhD programs are pretty competitive. The other thing is that I have limited school options as an international student. So will I get into any MD-PhD or even MD/DO programs at all? Thank you so much!

Shadowing seems really low (just 40?) so could you be more specific regarding your clinical volunteering roles and your interactions with physicians in those roles. Did the surgeon you shadowed do research as well?

On the research side of things, why are you interested in MD/PhD, and what would you see yourself doing 15 years out? What is the importance of clinical/translational research in the way you look at your career?

Have you talked with MD/PhD students, especially those who are not US citizens as yourself? What are the specific challenges they have experienced as international students supported by NIH training grant funds? How much have you read about physician-scientist training programs and careers? Have you networked with the national MD/PhD student conference?

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[Mr.Smile12]

For the clinical volunteering, I rotated through three units (ER, ECT, and CVICU). The ER part had a bunch of patient interactions but zero physician contact. For the rest of the two units I was able to observe minor procedures and occasionally talk to physicians. The surgeon I shadowed didn't do research. I may be able to seek out another opportunity with a clinical research PI before June.

As far as the MD-PhD part, I'm super interested in learning how to apply research in the medical field. So I'd eventually want to do clinical research.

I've read a few threads on SDN about applying as an international student. I've also researched the MD-PhD program layouts and students outcomes just a little. I think I definitely need to network with other MD-PhD students and international applicants more. Thanks for the reply!

You know you can do clinically relevant research in a Ph.D. program run through a medical school? (I did that.) You don't have to do MD/PhD, and Ph.D. programs are generally much more friendly towards international students than medical school. So why MD/PhD?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I think I would want to care for patients as a part of my career as well. I understand that there are many PhD programs out there but I think I really want the clinical part (making a difference in patients' lives) as well. If I won't be successful this cycle, I'd take a gap year and apply again to MD-PhD programs but probably not PhD programs. Thank you for the response!

I appreciate your answer (please understand I'm helping you with options).

I know many MD/PhD's who regret not doing just MD because they felt more drawn to taking care of patients than being in lab after a few years in training.

If you really want to care for patients, you get there faster with an MD-only pathway (which I know you can't do directly because you are international).

There are also at least one PhD program that focuses on oncology/immunology which will pair you up with clinicians so that you get a patient-centered view on the importance of the research you are doing. You get a couple of opportunities each semester to shadow that oncologist and talk to patients whose cancers you are working on. These patients in general are advanced stage and refractory to many therapies, being really frustrating to treat (so you wind up going more pallative than focused on a cure) if you were their oncologist.

I make the point that often as a physician you will recognize the limits of your expertise, that you can't make a difference in everyone's lives the way you want to (i.e., curing people). You can talk to many in health care who don't even really believe that doctors are the ones who really make the difference as much as nurses and day-to-day caregivers do.

I say this because even MD/PhD candidates need a proper plan B, which should include PhD-only programs and postbaccalaureate research opportunities such as the ones at NIH (though not sure you are eligible because of being international). You can get the Ph.D. first until you get permanent residency, then apply for MD.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Got it. So apply but have PhD programs as plan B and consider PhD programs that have heavy clinical emphasis. So which specific PhD programs do you suggest? Thank you so much for your time!

Every medical school with an MD/PhD program obviously has a Ph.D. program. Most of your NIH-funded medical schools have Ph.D. programs. As for specific programs, that depends on the faculty departments in the Ph.D. programs whose research strengths and student support best match your wishlist. You will need to do this homework anyway in selecting an MD/PhD program you want to attend... and EVERY MD/PhD program director knows each other and talk to each other a LOT about their applicants.