WAMC MD? 516 MCAT, 2.91 cGPA, 3.06 sGPA

[836360]

The same story as many others. Early grades at a community college, 2.69, a difficult major at a UC, major Bioengineering/ minor electrical engineering, and a free spirit left me with middling GPA numbers. Out of school for two years now, graduated in 2015.

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS

AMCAS: cGPA 2.91, sGPA 3.06​

2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown

516 (129/128/128/131)
​

3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)

California
​

4. Ethnicity and/or race

Caucasian​

5. Undergraduate institution or category

University of California, Santa Cruz​

6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)

100+ hours volunteering at ER​

7. Research experience and productivity

working full time as an electrophysiology research associate for a neuroscience pharma company for the last two year
​

8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented

20 hours shadowing ER docs, 20 hours shadowing a neurologist, 8 hours shadowing a pathologist​

9. Non-clinical volunteering

100 hours. Worked with a graduate group on a project to make learning robotics more accessible to kids
​

10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)

2 years of D1 rugby in college, chess club (coordinated tournaments), attended multiple neuroscience meetings: SFN, Ionotropic glutamate satellite meeting, etc, CPR certified
​

11. Relevant honors or awards

Nope. =(
​

12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

Upward trend. Took a prereq recently (O chem 2) and got an A while working full time. Good letters from PI, MDPhD mentor, professors
​

I know, go do a SMP, but I am planning on applying this cycle and I was hoping you fine bunch of people could give me some suggestions for school choices and anything else I can do to better my chances. I bought the MSAR and am looking into the schools that accept the lowest GPAs, but I am sure there is a lot about each school that I don't know about that would help me decide if it is a good choice to apply or not.

Thanks!

Sorry for the second post on here. I am looking for some more advice, I want to know if I should even apply to MD school this cycle or if I should do a SMP and wait a couple of years? From what every one has been saying I have a 0% chance of getting in. Is this true? I don't want to waste my time and money if there is absolutely no chance. If you were me would you apply?

Also If I do apply for this cycle I am thinking about hiring an admissions consultant. Since I am non-trad and have a low GPA I would like to have advice on how to best present my story. I know this question has been asked a lot and is looked down upon, but as a borderline non-trad does that make it at least worth considering?

Details so you know my story:

Year in school: Graduated March 2015

Major: Biomed engineering - minor in electrical engineering

Country/state of residence: California, USA

Schools to which you are applying: Low Tier MD

Cumulative GPA: 2.91

Science GPA: 3.02

MCAT Scores: 516 (129/128/128/131)

Research: 3000+ hours working as a electrophysiologist at a neuro-pharmacology company

Volunteering (clinical): 100+ volunteer hours at ER (4 hours a week)

Physician shadowing: 20+ hours both a neurologist, pathologist, and ER docs

Extracurricular activities: sports: 2 years D1 rugby in college, hockey.

Employment history: research associate, network tech, factory assembler, high school tutor

Immediate family members in medicine? yes

Specialty of interest: neurology/ neuro surgery

Shadowing experience: neurology, pathology, ER

Graduate degrees: no

Interest in rural health: no

TLDR: good MCAT/ECs, really bad GPA --> should I apply this cycle or am would I be wasting my money? If I do apply is a admissions consultant worth it?

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[Faha]

You have a chance for interviews at DO schools so consider all of these. You may need a DO LOR for some schools.
ACOM
ARCOM
BCOM
WCU-COM
LMU-DCOM
UP-KYCOM
WVSOM
VCOM (all 3 schools)
UIWSOM
NYIT-Arkansas
RVU (both schools)
Your chances for a MD acceptance are low due to your GPA. You could try a few schools such as Oakland Beaumont, Western Michigan, Quinnipiac, NYMC, Creighton, Rosalind Franklin and new schools for 2018 (Roseman, Seton Hall). Concentrate on a DO application though.

 

[836360]

Thank you for the response Faha, I will look into all of these. Are Roseman and Seton hall the only new med schools for 2018?

 

[Goro]

GPA is lethal for MD and circling the drain for DO. You'd get rejected from my school and a number of others. What's your GPA for each of the last two years?? A single A in a class isn't upward trend...you need to have 3.7+ for a sustained period to qualify as someone who has reinvented.



I know, go do a SMP, but I am planning on applying this cycle and I was hoping you fine bunch of people could give me some suggestions for school choices and anything else I can do to better my chances. I bought the MSAR and am looking into the schools that accept the lowest GPAs, but I am sure there is a lot about each school that I don't know about that would help me decide if it is a good choice to apply or not.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

 

[Faha]

Thank you for the response Faha, I will look into all of these. Are Roseman and Seton hall the only new med schools for 2018?

The only ones where you have a chance for an interview.

 

[836360]

GPA is lethal for MD and circling the drain for DO. You'd get rejected from my school and a number of others. What's your GPA for each of the last two years?? A single A in a class isn't upward trend...you need to have 3.7+ for a sustained period to qualify as someone who has reinvented.



I know, go do a SMP, but I am planning on applying this cycle and I was hoping you fine bunch of people could give me some suggestions for school choices and anything else I can do to better my chances. I bought the MSAR and am looking into the schools that accept the lowest GPAs, but I am sure there is a lot about each school that I don't know about that would help me decide if it is a good choice to apply or not.

Thanks!

I just took O chem 2 with lab while working full time and got an A, and I was hoping to spin my MCAT as me studying 3-4 hours every night after work (which I was) for three months to get the score I did. My last three quarters at UCSC were 3.3, 3.6, 3.3, but laced with graduate level and upper division electrical engineering courses (RF design, advanced analog circuits, and sensors.

Does any of this hold any weight? Or am I lying to myself.

 

[gyngyn]

I just took O chem 2 with lab while working full time and got an A, and I was hoping to spin my MCAT as me studying 3-4 hours every night after work (which I was) for three months to get the score I did. My last three quarters at UCSC were 3.3, 3.6, 3.3, but laced with graduate level and upper division electrical engineering courses (RF design, advanced analog circuits, and sensors.

Does any of this hold any weight? Or am I lying to myself.

Screeners are not going to look that deeply.
If you get an interview, committee members will evaluate the entire complexity of the application.
The gpa/MCAT disparity will raise the specter of the usual reasons for dissonance.

 

[836360]

Screeners are not going to look that deeply.
If you get an interview, committee members will evaluate the entire complexity of the application.
The gpa/MCAT disparity will raise the specter of the usual reasons for dissonance.

Thanks for the reply. I just want to clarify a few things about your post to make sure I understand what you are saying.

Basically I will get screened out due to my low GPA and screeners aren't going to care about what my classes or other confounding circumstances. If I get an interview then I will get considered more holistically. Correct?

Also, I've never been told what"the usual reasons for dissonance" are, although I can guess what they are. Is there any good reasons for a GPA/MCAT disparity that would make a screener take a look? i.e. (in my case) engineering major or community college courses from 8 years ago

 

[Goro]

Stop looking for excuses. To get into med school, particularly an MD school, you need to excel at everything you do. You need to prove you can walk and chew gum at the same time.

dissonance examples: smart but lazy. Poor choice maker. Can only keep 1 or 2 balls in the air at the same time.

Thanks for the reply. I just want to clarify a few things about your post to make sure I understand what you are saying.

Basically I will get screened out due to my low GPA and screeners aren't going to care about what my classes or other confounding circumstances. If I get an interview then I will get considered more holistically. Correct?

Also, I've never been told what"the usual reasons for dissonance" are, although I can guess what they are. Is there any good reasons for a GPA/MCAT disparity that would make a screener take a look? i.e. (in my case) engineering major or community college courses from 8 years ago

 

[836360]

Stop looking for excuses. To get into med school, particularly an MD school, you need to excel at everything you do. You need to prove you can walk and chew gum at the same time.

dissonance examples: smart but lazy. Poor choice maker. Can only keep 1 or 2 balls in the air at the same time.

Yep, that's what I thought. Painful for bad decisions to come back and haunt you is all.

 

[836360]

For MD, you have a very low GPA and you're in an unlucky state.
If you want MD, you're going to need to ace 1-2 years of post-bac followed by a good showing in an SMP. If you want DO, a year of post-bacc. You are right when you say that Neurosurgery is far more difficult to match into as DO.
You're also going to want some non-clinical volunteering.

This is what I think I need to do too. Let me know what you think about this though. What if I get my cGPA above 3.0 by doing some classes at a community college. Just 1 class a semester since I am working full time. Apply to SMPs beginning of next year for fall 2018 and ace the SMP. I would theoretically then be a competitive candidate for the 2020 entering class correct?

Also, one more question, If I go this route would the MCAT I took in January of 2017 still be valid for applying in June of 2019 and matriculating in fall of 2020? Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[JibsGuy52]

IF I were you, I would not want to delay this process until 2020, with becoming a full practicing physician at roughly 2026-27 (residency included). This is a lonnnnnnnnnng time for someone who graduated in 2015.

I would be way too stressed out if you didn't ace the SMP and then fail to get in 2020. This is alot of stress on someones mind.

 

[836360]

IF I were you, I would not want to delay this process until 2020, with becoming a full practicing physician at roughly 2026-27 (residency included). This is a lonnnnnnnnnng time for someone who graduated in 2015.

I would be way too stressed out if you didn't ace the SMP and then fail to get in 2020. This is alot of stress on someones mind.

What is your suggestion then? DO? Give up? haha

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

This is what I think I need to do too. Let me know what you think about this though. What if I get my cGPA above 3.0 by doing some classes at a community college. Just 1 class a semester since I am working full time. Apply to SMPs beginning of next year for fall 2018 and ace the SMP. I would theoretically then be a competitive candidate for the 2020 entering class correct?

Also, one more question, If I go this route would the MCAT I took in January of 2017 still be valid for applying in June of 2019 and matriculating in fall of 2020? Thanks for all the help everyone.

Whats your URM/ORM status? Sub 3.0 is pretty lethal for M.D. usually. I would honestly go D.O. route. Sure neurosurgery is more difficult for D.O. but majority of people change their mind about specialty after entering med school. I would make the argument that entering medical school while knowing you would be unhappy doing primary care isnt a good thing either.

 

[836360]

Whats your URM/ORM status? Sub 3.0 is pretty lethal for M.D. usually. I would honestly go D.O. route. Sure neurosurgery is more difficult for D.O. but majority of people change their mind about specialty after entering med school. I would make the argument that entering medical school while knowing you would be unhappy doing primary care isnt a good thing either.

White male, no help there. I will keep that in mind and I know it is possibly to get into neurosurgery as a DO. I guess the real question would be where are my chances lower. Getting into MD in my current situation or getting into neurosurgery as a DO.

I think a lot of people want to do other things than primary care. That's why there is a shortage, no?

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

White male, no help there. I will keep that in mind and I know it is possibly to get into neurosurgery as a DO. I guess the real question would be where are my chances lower. Getting into MD in my current situation or getting into neurosurgery as a DO.

I think a lot of people want to do other things than primary care. That's why there is a shortage, no?

Of course but my point is that you never know what could happen with the match. I just think that the general attitude of wanting to become a physician versus wanting to become a specific specialty is best early on. If I were you I would gun for DO and go from there.

 

[Cardboard101]

White male, no help there. I will keep that in mind and I know it is possibly to get into neurosurgery as a DO. I guess the real question would be where are my chances lower. Getting into MD in my current situation or getting into neurosurgery as a DO.

I think a lot of people want to do other things than primary care. That's why there is a shortage, no?

The physician shortage isn't really a shortage yet. It's a distribution problem.

As of right now your MD chances are nil. Your chances of neurosurgery provided you get into DO depend entirely on you.

 

[oopsaloo]

Would recommend SMP/post bac if you're serious about MD. May take a year or two (or three), and there's nothing wrong with that. As @Goro says, it's a marathon not a sprint.

Otherwise, if you're fine with DO, i still suggest getting your GPA up to >3.0 (many schools screen and auto-reject sub-3.0 GPAs) by taking a few classes.

Only you can decide if MD is worth a couple extra years of life/attending salary.

 

[gyngyn]

Merging threads.

 

[Goro]

Your stats are lethal for MD and DO school.

The same story as many others. Early grades at a community college, 2.69, a difficult major at a UC, major Bioengineering/ minor electrical engineering, and a free spirit left me with middling GPA numbers. Out of school for two years now, graduated in 2015.

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS

AMCAS: cGPA 2.91, sGPA 3.06​

2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown

516 (129/128/128/131)
​

3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)

California
​

4. Ethnicity and/or race

Caucasian​

5. Undergraduate institution or category

University of California, Santa Cruz​

6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)

100+ hours volunteering at ER​

7. Research experience and productivity

working full time as an electrophysiology research associate for a neuroscience pharma company for the last two year
​

8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented

20 hours shadowing ER docs, 20 hours shadowing a neurologist, 8 hours shadowing a pathologist​

9. Non-clinical volunteering

100 hours. Worked with a graduate group on a project to make learning robotics more accessible to kids
​

10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)

2 years of D1 rugby in college, chess club (coordinated tournaments), attended multiple neuroscience meetings: SFN, Ionotropic glutamate satellite meeting, etc, CPR certified
​

11. Relevant honors or awards

Nope. =(
​

12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

Upward trend. Took a prereq recently (O chem 2) and got an A while working full time. Good letters from PI, MDPhD mentor, professors
​

I know, go do a SMP, but I am planning on applying this cycle and I was hoping you fine bunch of people could give me some suggestions for school choices and anything else I can do to better my chances. I bought the MSAR and am looking into the schools that accept the lowest GPAs, but I am sure there is a lot about each school that I don't know about that would help me decide if it is a good choice to apply or not.

Thanks!

Sorry for the second post on here. I am looking for some more advice, I want to know if I should even apply to MD school this cycle or if I should do a SMP and wait a couple of years? From what every one has been saying I have a 0% chance of getting in. Is this true? I don't want to waste my time and money if there is absolutely no chance. If you were me would you apply?

Also If I do apply for this cycle I am thinking about hiring an admissions consultant. Since I am non-trad and have a low GPA I would like to have advice on how to best present my story. I know this question has been asked a lot and is looked down upon, but as a borderline non-trad does that make it at least worth considering?

Details so you know my story:

Year in school: Graduated March 2015

Major: Biomed engineering - minor in electrical engineering

Country/state of residence: California, USA

Schools to which you are applying: Low Tier MD

Cumulative GPA: 2.91

Science GPA: 3.02

MCAT Scores: 516 (129/128/128/131)

Research: 3000+ hours working as a electrophysiologist at a neuro-pharmacology company

Volunteering (clinical): 100+ volunteer hours at ER (4 hours a week)

Physician shadowing: 20+ hours both a neurologist, pathologist, and ER docs

Extracurricular activities: sports: 2 years D1 rugby in college, hockey.

Employment history: research associate, network tech, factory assembler, high school tutor

Immediate family members in medicine? yes

Specialty of interest: neurology/ neuro surgery

Shadowing experience: neurology, pathology, ER

Graduate degrees: no

Interest in rural health: no

TLDR: good MCAT/ECs, really bad GPA --> should I apply this cycle or am would I be wasting my money? If I do apply is a admissions consultant worth it?

 

[bears1992]

Stop looking for excuses. To get into med school, particularly an MD school, you need to excel at everything you do. You need to prove you can walk and chew gum at the same time.

dissonance examples: smart but lazy. Poor choice maker. Can only keep 1 or 2 balls in the air at the same time.

In the past you have mentioned that a low GPA/high MCAT gives off a "lazy" vibe from an applicant but does that hold true if that applicant also has an upward trend?

 

[Goro]

We LIKE upward trends. They tell us that the candidates finally got their act together.

Many of you persist in thinking that everything about med school applicants boils down to GPA and MCAT scores. It doesn't.

In the past you have mentioned that a low GPA/high MCAT gives off a "lazy" vibe from an applicant but does that hold true if that applicant also has an upward trend?

 

[JibsGuy52]

What is your suggestion then? DO? Give up? haha

No sorry. Didn't mean to come off like this.

As someone mentioned, only you can decide if you want to spend the extra years and salary gunning for MD. You are alot closer to DO with some GPA repair. The decision is yours.

 

[Fete]

We LIKE upward trends. They tell us that the candidates finally got their act together.

Many of you persist in thinking that everything about med school applicants boils down to GPA and MCAT scores. It doesn't.

do you like upward trends if the upward trend occurs in grad school?
What is another major factor besides MCAT and GPA does acceptance to medical school boil down to?

 

[candbgirl]

OP you won't make it through auto screen at MD schools and probably at some DO schools. DO is becoming more competitive every cycle. If you really want to be a doc you have some hefty grade repair ahead of you. You don't have an upward trend and planning to take one class a semester isn't going to impress anyone. You need to do some reflecting and decide for yourself if you want to go all out and do this right or find another career path.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

 

[Goro]

Yes, but for MD schools, the grad school needs to be a SMP. You're expected to do well in research MS programs and as such, they have a lot of grade inflation. So MD schools don't count these into cGPA. DO schools will.

Other factors that strongly help are killer ECs, a compelling life story, URM or veteran status.

do you like upward trends if the upward trend occurs in grad school?
What is another major factor besides MCAT and GPA does acceptance to medical school boil down to?

 

[hubbsbubbs]

I would recommend taking another year to take classes and work. You can balance a full-time job, two classes a semester/quarter and keeping up with your volunteer work about 5-10 hours a week. It'll be tough but it would definitely bolster your application. If you start classes this summer, you could have 8 more classes by June 2018 (if quarter system, 6 if semester). See what that would do to your GPA and compare that to an SMP. Consider the cost of an SMP vs the amount you'd make at work.