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I would agree on the general test, but I would actually advise taking the subject test if you're aiming at top clinical science schools - while some of them don't "require" the subject test, a large proportion "strongly recommend" it, and there's no reason to limit your chances of success by not doing it. It's not going to be a deciding factor for admission, but it's one more box to check off, and an easy one at that.
Good point. Depends on where you are applying. I took the subject test when I was applying - but none of the schools even "strongly suggested" it and I know it wasn't a factor where I ended up. But different schools are... different :) so good point!

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Good point. Depends on where you are applying. I took the subject test when I was applying - but none of the schools even "strongly suggested" it and I know it wasn't a factor where I ended up. But different schools are... different :) so good point!

Yeah, your mileage certainly may vary depending on the programs you're looking at, but it seems to be a trend among clinical science programs in particular. I applied alongside someone else from my lab who did not take the test, and noticed that schools who "strongly recommended" it extended me interviews but did not do the same for him. Obviously, other factors might have been at play here, but I know he wished he had realized that "strongly recommend" can mean "basically require unless your application is beyond extraordinary." The clinical science program I'll be attending in the fall requires it, so I'm certainly glad I took it!
 
Hi there! Feeling more than out of my league upon reading this thread but I'm going to give it a go.

I'm a senior with a degree in biology (GPA 3.4) and about 9 hours in psychology (intro, abnormal, developmental, 4.0 for all).
For the past year and a half, I've felt more and more certain that I want to head into the clinical psychology route and even have a few research interests in mind. Again, I was a biology major and have had no psych research experience and little experience with volunteer work involving my fields of interest. I understand that many graduate programs have pre-reqs, which I was already prepared to take at CCs and nearby state universities, but I was wondering what else I could be doing in the future in order to make myself a competitive applicant as I am fully aware of how limited spots in PhD programs.
Should I head the masters route knowing I would be gaining the research experience I lack? Is there some way to gain research experience without having to do earn the masters? I live about 45 minutes outside of DFW, Texas so I'm truly not near many universities or hospitals that are looking for RA's (trust me, I have been searching). Am I just not looking in the right places? I see so many threads advising applicants to rack up more research hours but I am stuck on where and how.
Maybe I've already answered my own question, but I am welcoming any advice that current or aspiring clinical psychologists have to offer. If the masters track is my best or only option, what type of psych masters would be best for going onward to a PhD program? Many thanks!
 
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Hi there! Feeling more than out of my league upon reading this thread but I'm going to give it a go.

I'm a senior with a degree in biology (GPA 3.4) and about 9 hours in psychology (intro, abnormal, developmental, 4.0 for all).
For the past year and a half, I've felt more and more certain that I want to head into the clinical psychology route and even have a few research interests in mind. Again, I was a biology major and have had no psych research experience and little experience with volunteer work involving my fields of interest. I understand that many graduate programs have pre-reqs, which I was already prepared to take at CCs and nearby state universities, but I was wondering what else I could be doing in the future in order to make myself a competitive applicant as I am fully aware of how limited spots in PhD programs.
Should I head the masters route knowing I would be gaining the research experience I lack? Is there some way to gain research experience without having to do earn the masters? I live about 45 minutes outside of DFW, Texas so I'm truly not near many universities or hospitals that are looking for RA's (trust me, I have been searching). Am I just not looking in the right places? I see so many threads advising applicants to rack up more research hours but I am stuck on where and how.
Maybe I've already answered my own question, but I am welcoming any advice that current or aspiring clinical psychologists have to offer. If the masters track is my best or only option, what type of psych masters would be best for going onward to a PhD program? Many thanks!

I'm no expert here, but I've spent the better part of the last year learning about this process. Others will certainly be able to help you more than I can but here's what I rank as important for admission (varying order for different places):

1. Fit with your research experience and interests to the interests of the investigator to whom you are applying (you apply to specific people more so than just the department). Remember, they are bringing you in to help with their work and possibly help them achieve tenure, more funding for novel studies, etc. You have to think of it in terms of what you provide to them that might be better or different than the other 200-600 people applying.
2. Grades/GPA - this is about risk. Higher grades generally means less risk. They are (at funded programs) spending a lot of money on you and don't want to take too many risks. Why admit students with lower GPA's when you don't have to? There may be reasons to do so but you'll have to check all the other boxes. Look up the some programs and check out their average GPA for incoming students. Some places literally have a 4.0 as the AVERAGE (U of Virginia) some years.
3. Research experience - This probably belongs at the top. Quality research with respected faculty members really makes a difference. They are bringing you in to be a student researcher basically. It's like applying for a job and having no experience....more risk.
4. Flexibility - If you restrict yourself in any way, you make this very difficult endeavor exponentially more difficult. Many of the top programs (and in many ways, depending on what you want to do, programs matter) get 300-600 applicants a year and usually offer less than 10 people a spot. Doing some quick math....that's a low % and means a lot of great people are going to get left out.
5. Letters of recommendation - This really is more about #3 as it's like having references for a job. They have no way to know how you work without these. They matter ---- A lot.
6. Luck - No way around it, there's some luck involved. You have control over many things but there are other things that are outside of your control. For example, not every faculty member accepts students in a given year. So if you were looking forward to working with so and so in his brain and behavior lab but he's not taking students...well, that school may now be off your list for that year.
7. Patience - There are lots of people on this forum who have applied 3-4 years in a row before being accepted.

If you know for sure you want to just be a clinician, get a graduate (master's) degree and get licensed. If you think you definitely want to get into a PhD program you have a couple of options: volunteer in a lab and work hard, getting as many pubs and posters out (quality ones) as you can. You can also do what you're doing: try to find an RA job. Get a master's in a clinical field with lots of great research to get some pubs and good letters of reference, and get great grades (near 4.0 is the rule in grad school, not the exception). You can also go to a post bacc program and get some research experience (those will likely be expensive).

I have an MSW and I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. While I have lots of great clinical experience from my career, I have very little research experience. I am volunteering at a local lab in a great university and putting off applying for almost 2 years while I gain this necessary experience. I also plan to crush the GRE, both general and psych. The other thing I have done is start a spreadsheet with over 60 schools and 1-3 PI's at each I may want to work with. That way, when it's time to apply, I can look them all up and tailor personal statements to their interests and weave them with mine. Oh yeah, and I work full time as a therapist at the VA. THIS IS A LOT OF WORK just to get in and even more once you start. But if you really want to do it...these are things that can help. Like I said, others will be maybe even more helpful. This is a labor of love for me and I'm willing to take my time to better my chances. At the very least, find a way to read some research in a field you're interested in and immerse yourself in the language and writing style. Use your time wisely. Many PI's give PDF links to their most recent or relevant work on their faculty webpage. Good luck.
 
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Hi there! Feeling more than out of my league upon reading this thread but I'm going to give it a go.

I'm a senior with a degree in biology (GPA 3.4) and about 9 hours in psychology (intro, abnormal, developmental, 4.0 for all).
For the past year and a half, I've felt more and more certain that I want to head into the clinical psychology route and even have a few research interests in mind. Again, I was a biology major and have had no psych research experience and little experience with volunteer work involving my fields of interest. I understand that many graduate programs have pre-reqs, which I was already prepared to take at CCs and nearby state universities, but I was wondering what else I could be doing in the future in order to make myself a competitive applicant as I am fully aware of how limited spots in PhD programs.
Should I head the masters route knowing I would be gaining the research experience I lack? Is there some way to gain research experience without having to do earn the masters? I live about 45 minutes outside of DFW, Texas so I'm truly not near many universities or hospitals that are looking for RA's (trust me, I have been searching). Am I just not looking in the right places? I see so many threads advising applicants to rack up more research hours but I am stuck on where and how.
Maybe I've already answered my own question, but I am welcoming any advice that current or aspiring clinical psychologists have to offer. If the masters track is my best or only option, what type of psych masters would be best for going onward to a PhD program? Many thanks!

In order to find RA jobs, you might need to move. They are often a 2 year commitment and they're usually in cities with large universities. You're young. It might be a good time to relocate in order to reach your goals. Moving for a job is way better than moving for a Master's degree, at least with regards to money.
 
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In order to find RA jobs, you might need to move. They are often a 2 year commitment and they're usually in cities with large universities. You're young. It might be a good time to relocate in order to reach your goals. Moving for a job is way better than moving for a Master's degree, at least with regards to money.

Thank you SO much! I'm definitely interested in saving money so being able to avoid the masters would be great if I was able to gain the experience outside of that. Definitely seeing more now that I need to relocate, which is my plan for after graduation.
 
I'm no expert here, but I've spent the better part of the last year learning about this process. Others will certainly be able to help you more than I can but here's what I rank as important for admission (varying order for different places):

1. Fit with your research experience and interests to the interests of the investigator to whom you are applying (you apply to specific people more so than just the department). Remember, they are bringing you in to help with their work and possibly help them achieve tenure, more funding for novel studies, etc. You have to think of it in terms of what you provide to them that might be better or different than the other 200-600 people applying.
2. Grades/GPA - this is about risk. Higher grades generally means less risk. They are (at funded programs) spending a lot of money on you and don't want to take too many risks. Why admit students with lower GPA's when you don't have to? There may be reasons to do so but you'll have to check all the other boxes. Look up the some programs and check out their average GPA for incoming students. Some places literally have a 4.0 as the AVERAGE (U of Virginia) some years.
3. Research experience - This probably belongs at the top. Quality research with respected faculty members really makes a difference. They are bringing you in to be a student researcher basically. It's like applying for a job and having no experience....more risk.
4. Flexibility - If you restrict yourself in any way, you make this very difficult endeavor exponentially more difficult. Many of the top programs (and in many ways, depending on what you want to do, programs matter) get 300-600 applicants a year and usually offer less than 10 people a spot. Doing some quick math....that's a low % and means a lot of great people are going to get left out.
5. Letters of recommendation - This really is more about #3 as it's like having references for a job. They have no way to know how you work without these. They matter ---- A lot.
6. Luck - No way around it, there's some luck involved. You have control over many things but there are other things that are outside of your control. For example, not every faculty member accepts students in a given year. So if you were looking forward to working with so and so in his brain and behavior lab but he's not taking students...well, that school may now be off your list for that year.
7. Patience - There are lots of people on this forum who have applied 3-4 years in a row before being accepted.

If you know for sure you want to just be a clinician, get a graduate (master's) degree and get licensed. If you think you definitely want to get into a PhD program you have a couple of options: volunteer in a lab and work hard, getting as many pubs and posters out (quality ones) as you can. You can also do what you're doing: try to find an RA job. Get a master's in a clinical field with lots of great research to get some pubs and good letters of reference, and get great grades (near 4.0 is the rule in grad school, not the exception). You can also go to a post bacc program and get some research experience (those will likely be expensive).

I have an MSW and I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. While I have lots of great clinical experience from my career, I have very little research experience. I am volunteering at a local lab in a great university and putting off applying for almost 2 years while I gain this necessary experience. I also plan to crush the GRE, both general and psych. The other thing I have done is start a spreadsheet with over 60 schools and 1-3 PI's at each I may want to work with. That way, when it's time to apply, I can look them all up and tailor personal statements to their interests and weave them with mine. Oh yeah, and I work full time as a therapist at the VA. THIS IS A LOT OF WORK just to get in and even more once you start. But if you really want to do it...these are things that can help. Like I said, others will be maybe even more helpful. This is a labor of love for me and I'm willing to take my time to better my chances. At the very least, find a way to read some research in a field you're interested in and immerse yourself in the language and writing style. Use your time wisely. Many PI's give PDF links to their most recent or relevant work on their faculty webpage. Good luck.

Thank you for your extremely thorough answer. I truly appreciate any extensive advice. It's inspiring to know you're entering this field with a good plan and patience for it in order to get where you want to be. Definitely heading into DFW, Austin, or Houston after graduation to get research where a plethora of universities and better research possibilities exist. You've given me a lot of helpful things to think about! Good luck in your endeavors!
 
Thank you SO much! I'm definitely interested in saving money so being able to avoid the masters would be great if I was able to gain the experience outside of that. Definitely seeing more now that I need to relocate, which is my plan for after graduation.

Honestly, if I was in your shoes back when I was graduating college, I would've done the RA route. Commit to 2 years. Do some research. Live in a big city. Publish and present. It's WAY more cost effective than a master's and you'll get lots of research experience, which is the biggest thing for clinical psych programs. Many clinical psych programs care more about the research experience than the clinical experience. They basically expect you to have little to none and that they'll be training you as a clean slate. As for where to find these jobs, major hospitals, schools, and labs are often hiring but the postings aren't always in traditional places. Check out university hiring websites or email professors directly! I also get random job opportunity listings through the APA division list serv I'm on. Maybe think about joining APA (it's cheaper for students) and see if anything pops up there too.
 
WAMC:

BA in English
Getting MA in clinical/counseling psych

Grades:
Undergrad ~3.7
Grad School ~ 3.8

GRE:
Verbal ~95th percentile
Quant ~65th percentile
Writing ~98th percentile

Research Experience:
-2nd author on one paper about to be published in a psychotherapy journal
-author on another paper that might be submitted by the time I apply
-first author on another paper that definitely won't be submitted by the time I apply: master's thesis, my mentor will likely write that it's publishable in her LOR
-lab manager for a psychology lab with 7 undergrad research assistants
-potentially a poster

Teaching Experience:
Graduate TA - actually taught a lecture
Undergrad TA
Guest- Lecturer in a medical school

Other Psych Experience:
- 40 hour practicum doing therapy
- A metric butt-ton of hours doing assessments, competent in the wechslers and MMPI
-will be starting at an internship this summer, not sure where yet - potentially a prison or a crisis facility

LORs:
-Fantastic

Not sure if I am missing anything else that schools are looking for but was wondering what programs might match these stats. Locationwise I want to be in the midwest, west coast, east coast, canada, new zealand, or australia. So basically English speaking countries that aren't the south. Also debating retaking the GRE to get the quant up, or taking the psych GRE since I wasn't a psychology major.
 
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WAMC:

BA in English
Getting MA in clinical/counseling psych

Grades:
Undergrad ~3.7
Grad School ~ 3.8

GRE:
Verbal ~95th percentile
Quant ~65th percentile
Writing ~98th percentile

Research Experience:
2nd author on one paper about to be published in a psychotherapy journal
author on another paper that might be submitted by the time I apply
first author on another paper that definitely won't be submitted by the time I apply - master's thesis, my mentor will likely write that it's publishable in her LOR
lab manager for a psychology lab with 7 undergrad research assistants
potentially a poster

Teaching Experience:
Graduate TA - actually taught a lecture
Undergrad TA
Guest- Lecturer in a medical school

Other Psych Experience:
- 40 hour practicum doing therapy
- A metric butt-ton of hours doing assessments, competent in the wechslers and MMPI
-will be starting at an internship this summer, not sure where yet - potentially a prison or a crisis facility

LORs:
-Fantastic

Not sure if I am missing anything else that schools are looking for but was wondering what programs might match these stats. Locationwise I want to be in the midwest, west coast, east coast, canada, new zealand, or australia. So basically English speaking countries that aren't the south. Also debating retaking the GRE to get the quant up, or taking the psych GRE since I wasn't a psychology major.

I can't give good feedback if you are looking at PhD schools (I'm starting my last year of my PsyD/internship year), but I can say that if you plan on getting licensed eventually in the US, it would be best to attend schools in the US or Canada.
 
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WAMC:

BA in English
Getting MA in clinical/counseling psych

Grades:
Undergrad ~3.7
Grad School ~ 3.8

GRE:
Verbal ~95th percentile
Quant ~65th percentile
Writing ~98th percentile

Research Experience:
2nd author on one paper about to be published in a psychotherapy journal
author on another paper that might be submitted by the time I apply
first author on another paper that definitely won't be submitted by the time I apply - master's thesis, my mentor will likely write that it's publishable in her LOR
lab manager for a psychology lab with 7 undergrad research assistants
potentially a poster

Teaching Experience:
Graduate TA - actually taught a lecture
Undergrad TA
Guest- Lecturer in a medical school

Other Psych Experience:
- 40 hour practicum doing therapy
- A metric butt-ton of hours doing assessments, competent in the wechslers and MMPI
-will be starting at an internship this summer, not sure where yet - potentially a prison or a crisis facility

LORs:
-Fantastic

Not sure if I am missing anything else that schools are looking for but was wondering what programs might match these stats. Locationwise I want to be in the midwest, west coast, east coast, canada, new zealand, or australia. So basically English speaking countries that aren't the south. Also debating retaking the GRE to get the quant up, or taking the psych GRE since I wasn't a psychology major.

It sounds like you have some great qualifications, but it doesn't seem like you are approaching this the right way. Generally, you want to be selecting programs based on your particular research interests, career goals, clinical interests, etc., not what programs would "match your stats." Regardless of how good your qualifications are, most programs are based on mentor models, so the point of applying is to maximize your fit with the POI(s) and then specific aspects of the overall program (e.g. specialized external practica). Applying to programs more generically simply because you exceed their admissions statistics by healthy margins is a great way to get denied admissions, let alone get interviews in the first place.

And what exactly do you want to do with your doctorate?

As @sabine_psyd pointed out, if you want to get licensed and do any kind of clinical work whatsoever in the US or Canada, you need to attend an APA- or CPA-accredited program in the US or Canada, respectively. If you just want to be a researcher, geography and accreditation aren't quite as important.

You should probably buy a recent edition of the Insider's Guide, read some articles from your area of interest and look at the programs where some of the authors are faculty, and/or just individually look at programs and their faculty through their websites.
 
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It sounds like you have some great qualifications, but it doesn't seem like you are approaching this the right way. Generally, you want to be selecting programs based on your particular research interests, career goals, clinical interests, etc., not what programs would "match your stats." Regardless of how good your qualifications are, most programs are based on mentor models, so the point of applying is to maximize your fit with the POI(s) and then specific aspects of the overall program (e.g. specialized external practica). Applying to programs more generically simply because you exceed their admissions statistics by healthy margins is a great way to get denied admissions, let alone get interviews in the first place.

And what exactly do you want to do with your doctorate?

As @sabine_psyd pointed out, if you want to get licensed and do any kind of clinical work whatsoever in the US or Canada, you need to attend an APA- or CPA-accredited program in the US or Canada, respectively. If you just want to be a researcher, geography and accreditation aren't quite as important.

You should probably buy a recent edition of the Insider's Guide, read some articles from your area of interest and look at the programs where some of the authors are faculty, and/or just individually look at programs and their faculty through their websites.
Wow I hadn't even considered the license issue, thanks for letting me know.


And I apologize, I should have been more specific. I realize most PhD programs are the mentor model. I do have a specific area of research I'm interested in, and know how to go about finding faculty members who might be a good fit. I have a great mentor in my masters program whose helping me with that, and for anonymity sake id rather not say my area of interest (my cv is tailored to it though for the record) I was more so wondering if my statistics/research experience would be good enough if you make the assumption that the content of my research lines up with a potential mentor. Are there schools where my scores would be a hindrance even if I was a good match in terms of research interests (real talk, my dream school is the university of minnesota)? Or am I totally not getting the core concept of how this selection process works?
 
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Not sure if I am missing anything else that schools are looking for but was wondering what programs might match these stats. Locationwise I want to be in the midwest, west coast, east coast, canada, new zealand, or australia. So basically English speaking countries that aren't the south. Also debating retaking the GRE to get the quant up, or taking the psych GRE since I wasn't a psychology major.

1. Score well on the GRE this time.
2. Don't apply outside the US and Canada unless you want to practice and live in those countries.
3. Ruling out large swaths of the country geographically will not move the odds in your favor.
4. Do everything you can to get that other paper submitted before your application, esp. if it is an empirical paper (original research).
5. Your clinical experience is much less important than your research productivity. You might have committed to a summer internship already, but you'd be better off using the time to crank out another paper or get other research experience.
 
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1. Score well on the GRE this time.
2. Don't apply outside the US and Canada unless you want to practice and live in those countries.
3. Ruling out large swaths of the country geographically will not move the odds in your favor.
4. Do everything you can to get that other paper submitted before your application, esp. if it is an empirical paper (original research).
5. Your clinical experience is much less important than your research productivity. You might have committed to a summer internship already, but you'd be better off using the time to crank out another paper or get other research experience.

Is my GRE not good? I'm not trying to be defensive about taking it again for the record - my "studying" for the GRE just consisted of going over some vocabulary words like 2 days before I took it, I'm sure if I actually prepared I could get a higher score, I'm more so wondering if where I'm currently at is like total garbage or just could be better.
Yes all the research is empirical.
I've got no ties keeping me in the states, if I went overseas for school I would assume I would practice there.
I'll try and reach out and see if I can get more research experience over the summer. The internship is a requirement for my masters, so I can't just not do it.
- but it doesn't start until August so I've got time.
Thanks for the information :)
 
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You typically need a work visa to work overseas and those are not always easy to get. Before considering international programs, look into the requirements to work abroad first once you have the degree. Degrees are usually not transferred from international to US, at least not clinical doctoral degrees.
 
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Is my GRE not good? I'm not trying to be defensive about taking it again for the record - my "studying" for the GRE just consisted of going over some vocabulary words like 2 days before I took it, I'm sure if I actually prepared I could get a higher score, I'm more so wondering if where I'm currently at is like total garbage or just could be better.
Yes all the research is empirical.
I've got no ties keeping me in the states, if I went overseas for school I would assume I would practice there.
I'll try and reach out and see if I can get more research experience over the summer. The internship is a requirement for my masters, so I can't just not do it.
- but it doesn't start until August so I've got time.
Thanks for the information :)

The percentile on your verbal and writing look great. The quant is kind of low. You might wanna take it again JUST to see if the quant could be higher. However, I know there's generally a cutoff for most schools and they usually set it at 50%, which you're well above in all sections. Doesn't hurt to take it again, especially if you barely prepared before. Focus on the math this time. Otherwise, as everyone said, you'll get interviews based on match with regard to research interests and overall fit. The stats will prevent you from getting screened out and with your stats you should be fine.
 
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Is my GRE not good? I'm not trying to be defensive about taking it again for the record - my "studying" for the GRE just consisted of going over some vocabulary words like 2 days before I took it, I'm sure if I actually prepared I could get a higher score, I'm more so wondering if where I'm currently at is like total garbage or just could be better.

Sorry - just the quant section and, as WisNeuro explained, it's not terrible but could be higher.
 
Hey all,
I want to apply to PhD programs in counseling psychology at the end of this year, and I want to know what my chances of getting in are. I currently have a 3.94 GPA. I became an RA in 2 labs (one social psych lab and one counseling psych lab) in January of this year. I'm also joining a 3rd lab this summer. Applications are due around December 1st, so basically I'll have 11 months of research experience in 2 labs and 7 months of research experience in 3 labs. I won't have any publications, but I will definitley have my name on 1 poster that I am going to present at a conference. (possibly 2 posters, but we'll see). I've volunteered with Habitat for Humanity, and since January I've been a phone counselor for a suicide/crisis hotline. I have one letter of rec set in place from someone who holds a very prestigious position in the counseling psych world. His letter is probably the strongest part of my application. Working on finding people for my other 2 letters. I take the GRE this summer, but I'm planning on getting tutoring for that. So if I do well on the GRE, do you think I have a shot of getting in? Any recommendations on applying and what makes an application stronger?

Edit: I am also a TA for personality psychology and taught a 2 hour lecture that I prepared myself. I plan on being a TA again for at least one more semester.
 
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There's a thread titled "WAMC: What Are My Chances" at the top of this forum where this post can be placed and receive lots of feedback. You will notice other candidates with similar backgrounds to yours have gotten insightful feedback on how to improve their application/experiences.

To provide brief feedback though- only 7-11 months of research experience by application period is not considered competitive, especially if you only have your name on 1 poster. There will be numerous candidates who will be applying with 2-4+ years experience, excellent recommendation letters/GREs and numerous poster/oral presentations (and possibly several publications) to the same exact laboratories/schools you'll be applying to work with. Take at least a year off and apply Fall 2018.
 
There's a thread titled "WAMC: What Are My Chances" at the top of this forum where this post can be placed and receive lots of feedback. You will notice other candidates with similar backgrounds to yours have gotten insightful feedback on how to improve their application/experiences.

To provide brief feedback though- only 7-11 months of research experience by application period is not considered competitive, especially if you only have your name on 1 poster. There will be numerous candidates who will be applying with 2-4+ years experience, excellent recommendation letters/GREs and numerous poster/oral presentations (and possibly several publications) to the same exact laboratories/schools you'll be applying to work with. Take at least a year off and apply Fall 2018.

I disagree. I had a little over a year of RA experience and just one poster presentation with no pubs, yet I got into a fully funded PsyD program off the waitlist, and got a first offer from a partially funded PsyD program. If I had broadened my scope I might have gotten into more (I only applied to 4 programs because I really wanted a balanced program which was rare with my interests - I would've applied to more if I had to do a second round). I did have an honors thesis just about finished by interview time + stellar GRE scores, and I think that's what got me in, but I also didn't have any clinically relevant experience like OP (with the suicide hotline volunteering). If OP has solid letters and applies to programs that are an excellent fit, I think they have a shot. I'm not saying it's likely, but there's a good enough chance. Unless OP can't afford to apply twice, or decides they want some more time before applying.

OP, will the social psych lab PI not write you a letter?
 
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She's interested in PhD Counseling, which to my understanding, are much more competitive than PsyD programs. Based on the content from the WAMC thread alone, some of the most senior members advise on having 1 1/2+ years worth of experience (and more than one poster presentation), which would serve as concrete evidence to the contributions she would've made to the several research laboratories she's been a part of. OP has some experience for her application to be considered (depending on her roles/leadership within the different labs and whether PIs can attest to this) and it wouldn't hurt for her to apply if she wants to commit to that process this application round. However, I'd personally wait to have a solid, competitive CV which reflects the experience of the candidates I'm being compared to. Perhaps others who've been accepted to fully-funded PhD Counseling Psych programs may be able to weigh in on the WAMC thread.
 
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She's interested in PhD Counseling, which to my understanding, are much more competitive than PsyD programs.
@metalpsychperson said funded PsyD, meaning Baylor or the like. Very hard to get into, as hard as any funded program.
Amount of time in the labs isn't as important as content, which seems like it'd be good if OP's name is on a poster. 11 months of substantive involvement is better than 2 years of data entry.
Seems competitive to me.
 
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I disagree. I had a little over a year of RA experience and just one poster presentation with no pubs, yet I got into a fully funded PsyD program off the waitlist, and got a first offer from a partially funded PsyD program. If I had broadened my scope I might have gotten into more (I only applied to 4 programs because I really wanted a balanced program which was rare with my interests - I would've applied to more if I had to do a second round). I did have an honors thesis just about finished by interview time + stellar GRE scores, and I think that's what got me in, but I also didn't have any clinically relevant experience like OP (with the suicide hotline volunteering). If OP has solid letters and applies to programs that are an excellent fit, I think they have a shot. I'm not saying it's likely, but there's a good enough chance. Unless OP can't afford to apply twice, or decides they want some more time before applying.

OP, will the social psych lab PI not write you a letter?
Hey metalpsychperson! Thanks for the advice, very insightful response. I could get a letter out of the social psych lab I'm in, but it would be from a psychologist not a counseling psychologist. I go to a very popular, well rounded college where a lot of top dog counseling psychologists do research/teach, so I'm in the process of trying to get cool with them bc they're well known in the field I want to get involved in, so I feel their letters will hold more weight.
 
@metalpsychperson said funded PsyD, meaning Baylor or the like. Very hard to get into, as hard as any funded program.
Amount of time in the labs isn't as important as content, which seems like it'd be good if OP's name is on a poster. 11 months of substantive involvement is better than 2 years of data entry.
Seems competitive to me.
This is good to know because despite my lack of time in labs, I certainly have a lot of responsibilities. The counseling psych lab I'm in is particularly unique, as it composed of entirely undergrads, no grad students. A counseling psychologist that teaches at my school supervises us, but other than that we do literally everything. We formulate study ideas, formulate study methods, write IRB submissions, conduct literature reviews, collect data, analyze data, work directly with SPSS, create posters ourselves, the whole 9 yards. So I really feel I'm getting hands on experience. Someone once told me that it does not necessarily matter how many labs you are in or how long you are in them, but that the work you are doing is meaningful and insightful. Nice to hear someone else validate this.
 
She's interested in PhD Counseling, which to my understanding, are much more competitive than PsyD programs. Based on the content from the WAMC thread alone, some of the most senior members advise on having 1 1/2+ years worth of experience (and more than one poster presentation), which would serve as concrete evidence to the contributions she would've made to the several research laboratories she's been a part of. OP has some experience for her application to be considered (depending on her roles/leadership within the different labs and whether PIs can attest to this) and it wouldn't hurt for her to apply if she wants to commit to that process this application round. However, I'd personally wait to have a solid, competitive CV which reflects the experience of the candidates I'm being compared to. Perhaps others who've been accepted to fully-funded PhD Counseling Psych programs may be able to weigh in on the WAMC thread.
You do make a good point. I could potentially get accepted somewhere, but I'd have more options if I devoted more time to building my resume.
 
I did 2 rounds of applications before getting into a fully funded counseling psych PhD program and from talked with grad students in the counseling psych programs I interviewed at, I know it is possible to get in straight out of undergrad. It would be very tough though. Unlike clinical psych, counseling psych pools more heavily from people who already have masters degrees or extensive life experience in clinical and/or research areas. For example, NYU states on their application page that they highly favor applicants who already have master's degrees. If you think you are ready to apply now and have solid fit with advisors you hope to work with, go ahead. What do you have to lose right? If you don't think you can afford to apply more than once, then I might advise you to hold off and get more publications.

One thing I saw in some threads on here that I noticed during interviews as well is that fit with a professor's current research is important, but you also want to see how your fit is with where their research is going. You might want to apply to someone because they have publications in one area and list it as a research interest but get to the interview and find they have changed their route and are now doing something slightly different that someone else is a better fit with. I found the best way to work with this is to email professors you want to apply to and ask them what their current and future projects are. Some might respond and some won't. It doesn't hurt to ask. Then you can make a more informed decision on who is a great fit with you.

Again, as someone said above, it is possible to get in out of undergrad. It will just be VERY difficult. It doesn't hurt to try, but be prepared to apply again because it may or may not work out.
 
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I did 2 rounds of applications before getting into a fully funded counseling psych PhD program and from talked with grad students in the counseling psych programs I interviewed at, I know it is possible to get in straight out of undergrad. It would be very tough though. Unlike clinical psych, counseling psych pools more heavily from people who already have masters degrees or extensive life experience in clinical and/or research areas. For example, NYU states on their application page that they highly favor applicants who already have master's degrees. If you think you are ready to apply now and have solid fit with advisors you hope to work with, go ahead. What do you have to lose right? If you don't think you can afford to apply more than once, then I might advise you to hold off and get more publications.

One thing I saw in some threads on here that I noticed during interviews as well is that fit with a professor's current research is important, but you also want to see how your fit is with where their research is going. You might want to apply to someone because they have publications in one area and list it as a research interest but get to the interview and find they have changed their route and are now doing something slightly different that someone else is a better fit with. I found the best way to work with this is to email professors you want to apply to and ask them what their current and future projects are. Some might respond and some won't. It doesn't hurt to ask. Then you can make a more informed decision on who is a great fit with you.

Again, as someone said above, it is possible to get in out of undergrad. It will just be VERY difficult. It doesn't hurt to try, but be prepared to apply again because it may or may not work out.

You do make a good point. I could potentially get accepted somewhere, but I'd have more options if I devoted more time to building my resume.

This year NYU Counseling accepted two students who had post-bac experience (I think 2yrs +) rather than holding a master's but either way I doubt acceptance would've been likely straight out of undergrad. If you want to apply and have the funds, time and 2 or 3 definite programs with very very good fit in mind then I would say try but I wouldn't go for 15 apps or something like that till you beef up your apps.
 
This year NYU Counseling accepted two students who had post-bac experience (I think 2yrs +) rather than holding a master's but either way I doubt acceptance would've been likely straight out of undergrad. If you want to apply and have the funds, time and 2 or 3 definite programs with very very good fit in mind then I would say try but I wouldn't go for 15 apps or something like that till you beef up your apps.

Yeah I remember when I interviewed at NYU during the 2016 cycle, one of their current students (who is still there I believe) was admitted straight out of undergrad. But she said herself she was a rare case. It's not like it's not possible but especially with counseling psych I feel like there's an emphasis on greater life experience and time out of school spent doing relevant work either in the form of additional degrees or research or something. I don't think it hurts to try if OP is really determined, but I definitely would just wait. Why rush? If you're straight out of undergrad, you're still really young. It doesn't hurt to spend some time out of school and grow as a person not just professionally but personally. It'll make you a better researcher, academic, and student in the long run.
 
I guess I don't know how counseling programs are, but I got in to several fully funded clinical PhD programs out of undergrad with one year of research experience at the time of application (no posters, no pubs, some work on an honors thesis). I'm pretty sure it was just my GPA (went to a highly ranked undergrad) and GRE scores that got me in, but it can be done.
 
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This is good to know because despite my lack of time in labs, I certainly have a lot of responsibilities. The counseling psych lab I'm in is particularly unique, as it composed of entirely undergrads, no grad students. A counseling psychologist that teaches at my school supervises us, but other than that we do literally everything. We formulate study ideas, formulate study methods, write IRB submissions, conduct literature reviews, collect data, analyze data, work directly with SPSS, create posters ourselves, the whole 9 yards. So I really feel I'm getting hands on experience. Someone once told me that it does not necessarily matter how many labs you are in or how long you are in them, but that the work you are doing is meaningful and insightful. Nice to hear someone else validate this.
Only one of my LORs was from a clinical psychologist. The other two were from experimental psychologists. I'd think you'd be better off with a letter from a non-counseling psychologist that knows you very well and can write you an excellent letter than a counseling psychologist who hasn't worked with you as much or seen you recently. At least that's my intuition
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. Should probably have at least one from a counseling or clinical psychologist, but you've already got that.
 
Hey all,
I want to apply to PhD programs in counseling psychology at the end of this year, and I want to know what my chances of getting in are. I currently have a 3.94 GPA. I became an RA in 2 labs (one social psych lab and one counseling psych lab) in January of this year. I'm also joining a 3rd lab this summer. Applications are due around December 1st, so basically I'll have 11 months of research experience in 2 labs and 7 months of research experience in 3 labs. I won't have any publications, but I will definitley have my name on 1 poster that I am going to present at a conference. (possibly 2 posters, but we'll see). I've volunteered with Habitat for Humanity, and since January I've been a phone counselor for a suicide/crisis hotline. I have one letter of rec set in place from someone who holds a very prestigious position in the counseling psych world. His letter is probably the strongest part of my application. Working on finding people for my other 2 letters. I take the GRE this summer, but I'm planning on getting tutoring for that. So if I do well on the GRE, do you think I have a shot of getting in? Any recommendations on applying and what makes an application stronger?

Edit: I am also a TA for personality psychology and taught a 2 hour lecture that I prepared myself. I plan on being a TA again for at least one more semester.

Mod Note: Merged into the WAMC sticky
 
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@metalpsychperson said funded PsyD, meaning Baylor or the like. Very hard to get into, as hard as any funded program.
Amount of time in the labs isn't as important as content, which seems like it'd be good if OP's name is on a poster. 11 months of substantive involvement is better than 2 years of data entry.
Seems competitive to me.

Agreed. You want somewhere around a year's worth at least, in general, but like MCParent mentioned, 11 months with productivity (e.g., involvement in a poster/publication) would probably be viewed more positively than 2 years of "just" data entry.

However, reviewers also know that students aren't always able to control these factors. Two years of data entry is still two years' worth of research experience.
 
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Yeah I remember when I interviewed at NYU during the 2016 cycle, one of their current students (who is still there I believe) was admitted straight out of undergrad. But she said herself she was a rare case. It's not like it's not possible but especially with counseling psych I feel like there's an emphasis on greater life experience and time out of school spent doing relevant work either in the form of additional degrees or research or something. I don't think it hurts to try if OP is really determined, but I definitely would just wait. Why rush? If you're straight out of undergrad, you're still really young. It doesn't hurt to spend some time out of school and grow as a person not just professionally but personally. It'll make you a better researcher, academic, and student in the long run.
I appreciate you taking the time to give me your input. I will definitely take it into consideration.
 
Hey metalpsychperson! Thanks for the advice, very insightful response. I could get a letter out of the social psych lab I'm in, but it would be from a psychologist not a counseling psychologist. I go to a very popular, well rounded college where a lot of top dog counseling psychologists do research/teach, so I'm in the process of trying to get cool with them bc they're well known in the field I want to get involved in, so I feel their letters will hold more weight.
I think that the person who can write the most detailed letter for you that includes specific examples that illustrate the qualities you need to be a successful grad student is way more important than the names on the letter, if the difference between the two is someone who knows you quite well versus someone who barely knows your work (though they may know you socially). In submitting letters, letter writers generally have to say how long they have known you and in what capacity (e.g., you were a RA in their lab, a student in their class, etc) and rate how well they know you (e.g., ranging from "very well" to the equivalent of "barely is a stretch; this person was a student in my 300 person intro class 2 years ago and asked me to write a letter for them even though I hardly remember them." ) The psychologists you will be applying to work with will be able to smell the difference. Now if you have someone fairly well recognized in the field who is ALSO quite familiar with your work (beyond "got an A in my class") then that may be different. But it might look weird if you worked fairly closely with someone in their lab and then didn't have a rec letter from them, but did have some from people who know you less well. People might suspect you were afraid to ask them for a letter because you screwed up something in the lab or left on bad terms or something.
 
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Hey everyone, this is kind of long, but I would be so appreciative of any sort of answers! This is regarding clinical psychology doctoral programs. I'm applying for medical school in the coming months, but was keeping clinical psychology graduate school as my back-up plan. (I just graduated from undergrad with a major in Neuropsychology and a minor in Psychology, so I believe I should have the prerequisites for both med school and psych grad school). I was researching schools today and found Northwestern's clinical psychology program offered through their medical school (Feinberg). Here are my questions:

I also saw that Northwestern has another clinical psychology doctorate degree through their psychology department (as opposed to med/psychiatry). The med/psychiatry one's description appeals to me more, but I'm confused of why they have two different programs. I'd never seen or heard of anything like this until today. Is this common? Are there other schools that offer clinical psychology degrees through their medical school? The idea of being clinically trained for a health center environment is what attracts me most to it, and I haven't seen that in any other program I've researched thus far.

Second, just curious what your guys' thoughts are on my prospective application. I have a 4.0 in my psych classes, 3.75 cumulative gpa. I haven't taken the GRE yet, and I know it could be bad to assume it will go well, but for the sake of this let's say I do well enough to be competitive. I was president of my school's NAMI on Campus chapter for 2 years (I know extracurriculars probably don't help much, but can't hurt). My main concern is my research experience. I did a semester of research as a RA my sophomore year, and a semester my senior year, and worked on a capstone paper my senior year also. I've heard that it is better to have continuous research, however I needed to quit my sophomore year. The faculty over the research had me analyzing spreadsheets to things that were really complicated to me at the time, and kept telling me I was doing it wrong being very rude about it. I'm not one to back out of something because someone hurt my feelings. This was my first time with research and I tried putting in the effort to make it better, and it got a little better, but I decided that lab wasn't for me. The topic didn't interest me and I was told (incorrectly) at the time by an advisor that research isn't required for med school, so I decided it was best to leave. Now flash forward 2 years later, I realize research is needed for med school (and psych), so I find another lab. This time it's with a really supportive faculty member and the topic is more relevant to what I want to do. It was great. The following semester though I just worked with him on my capstone and decided that being an actual RA didn't fit my schedule due to other pre-med requirements. So in summary, I have some research experience but no posters or publications. I'm working as a medical scribe during a gap year because medical school is still my top choice, but am looking into doing something clinically relevant to psych too.

If you only answer one thing, answer this please: What are my chances at PsyD and/or phD programs with my credentials and experiences. Should I choose one over the other? apply for both? something else? Thank you so much!
 
Hey everyone, this is kind of long, but I would be so appreciative of any sort of answers! This is regarding clinical psychology doctoral programs. I'm applying for medical school in the coming months, but was keeping clinical psychology graduate school as my back-up plan. (I just graduated from undergrad with a major in Neuropsychology and a minor in Psychology, so I believe I should have the prerequisites for both med school and psych grad school). I was researching schools today and found Northwestern's clinical psychology program offered through their medical school (Feinberg). Here are my questions:

I also saw that Northwestern has another clinical psychology doctorate degree through their psychology department (as opposed to med/psychiatry). The med/psychiatry one's description appeals to me more, but I'm confused of why they have two different programs. I'd never seen or heard of anything like this until today. Is this common? Are there other schools that offer clinical psychology degrees through their medical school? The idea of being clinically trained for a health center environment is what attracts me most to it, and I haven't seen that in any other program I've researched thus far.

Second, just curious what your guys' thoughts are on my prospective application. I have a 4.0 in my psych classes, 3.75 cumulative gpa. I haven't taken the GRE yet, and I know it could be bad to assume it will go well, but for the sake of this let's say I do well enough to be competitive. I was president of my school's NAMI on Campus chapter for 2 years (I know extracurriculars probably don't help much, but can't hurt). My main concern is my research experience. I did a semester of research as a RA my sophomore year, and a semester my senior year, and worked on a capstone paper my senior year also. I've heard that it is better to have continuous research, however I needed to quit my sophomore year. The faculty over the research had me analyzing spreadsheets to things that were really complicated to me at the time, and kept telling me I was doing it wrong being very rude about it. I'm not one to back out of something because someone hurt my feelings. This was my first time with research and I tried putting in the effort to make it better, and it got a little better, but I decided that lab wasn't for me. The topic didn't interest me and I was told (incorrectly) at the time by an advisor that research isn't required for med school, so I decided it was best to leave. Now flash forward 2 years later, I realize research is needed for med school (and psych), so I find another lab. This time it's with a really supportive faculty member and the topic is more relevant to what I want to do. It was great. The following semester though I just worked with him on my capstone and decided that being an actual RA didn't fit my schedule due to other pre-med requirements. So in summary, I have some research experience but no posters or publications. I'm working as a medical scribe during a gap year because medical school is still my top choice, but am looking into doing something clinically relevant to psych too.

If you only answer one thing, answer this please: What are my chances at PsyD and/or phD programs with my credentials and experiences. Should I choose one over the other? apply for both? something else? Thank you so much!

I'm not too familiar what the difference between the two programs are, but there are a few other programs which are housed in medical schools. Off the top of my head UT-Southwestern, UAlabama-Birmingham, Mercer (not yet accredited) and PAU-Stanford consortium (50% of the faculty are from Stanford's med school). Some schools like Rosalind Franklin and Pacific University-Oregon have their neuropsych students take a neuro course with the med students. That being said what department the program is housed doesn't make too big a difference in the training from what I understand. Any reputable clinical psychology doctorate program will provide you with practicum opportunities in a medical center setting. For neuropsych you should focus primarily on if the programs have neuropsych opportunities through research, practicum and coursework. Programs like Northwestern/UT/UAB are extremely competitive and typically take ~7% of the students who apply to them. Those students almost always have multiple poster presentations and a publication or two. Even for neuro focused Psy.D programs research is extremely important. If you decide that neuropsych is what you would like to pursue over medical school, then pursuing a RA position in a neuropsych lab for 1-2 years after you graduate would be extremely beneficial for your application. The vast majority of PhD/PsyD incoming students at the better programs have taken some time off after graduation to make themselves more competitive.
 
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Hey everyone, this is kind of long, but I would be so appreciative of any sort of answers! This is regarding clinical psychology doctoral programs. I'm applying for medical school in the coming months, but was keeping clinical psychology graduate school as my back-up plan. (I just graduated from undergrad with a major in Neuropsychology and a minor in Psychology, so I believe I should have the prerequisites for both med school and psych grad school). I was researching schools today and found Northwestern's clinical psychology program offered through their medical school (Feinberg). Here are my questions:

I also saw that Northwestern has another clinical psychology doctorate degree through their psychology department (as opposed to med/psychiatry). The med/psychiatry one's description appeals to me more, but I'm confused of why they have two different programs. I'd never seen or heard of anything like this until today. Is this common? Are there other schools that offer clinical psychology degrees through their medical school? The idea of being clinically trained for a health center environment is what attracts me most to it, and I haven't seen that in any other program I've researched thus far.

Second, just curious what your guys' thoughts are on my prospective application. I have a 4.0 in my psych classes, 3.75 cumulative gpa. I haven't taken the GRE yet, and I know it could be bad to assume it will go well, but for the sake of this let's say I do well enough to be competitive. I was president of my school's NAMI on Campus chapter for 2 years (I know extracurriculars probably don't help much, but can't hurt). My main concern is my research experience. I did a semester of research as a RA my sophomore year, and a semester my senior year, and worked on a capstone paper my senior year also. I've heard that it is better to have continuous research, however I needed to quit my sophomore year. The faculty over the research had me analyzing spreadsheets to things that were really complicated to me at the time, and kept telling me I was doing it wrong being very rude about it. I'm not one to back out of something because someone hurt my feelings. This was my first time with research and I tried putting in the effort to make it better, and it got a little better, but I decided that lab wasn't for me. The topic didn't interest me and I was told (incorrectly) at the time by an advisor that research isn't required for med school, so I decided it was best to leave. Now flash forward 2 years later, I realize research is needed for med school (and psych), so I find another lab. This time it's with a really supportive faculty member and the topic is more relevant to what I want to do. It was great. The following semester though I just worked with him on my capstone and decided that being an actual RA didn't fit my schedule due to other pre-med requirements. So in summary, I have some research experience but no posters or publications. I'm working as a medical scribe during a gap year because medical school is still my top choice, but am looking into doing something clinically relevant to psych too.

If you only answer one thing, answer this please: What are my chances at PsyD and/or phD programs with my credentials and experiences. Should I choose one over the other? apply for both? something else? Thank you so much!

It's probably not a good idea to have grad school in clinical psych be your "back-up plan," if only because fully-funded programs are more difficult to get into than med schools. The educations and careers between physicians and clinical psychologists are also very different, so one isn't really a good substitute for the other. You should probably look more into what the training and lifestyles are like for psychologists and physicians, as well as figure out what you want to do for a career.

Regardless, you need significantly more research experience to get into a full-funded program. Two semesters of research and a capstone without any productivity will make it difficult to get into any fully-funded program. You also need to learn more about the overall admissions process. You need to emphasize fit, but not just with the program being located in a university medical school. The fit is more about with your mentor and more specific aspects of the program, e.g. coursework, practicum opportunities, research and clinical populations, etc. The more generically and less specifically you focus your applications, the less likely you are to gain admission to any program, regardless of how qualified you are.

As to the Northwestern programs themselves, the program at the main campus in Evanston is more research focused and the program at the Feinberg medical school is more balanced between research and clinical work. The Evanston program is fully-funded, whereas the Feinberg program is only partially funded, with funding being more dependent upon your lab's funding. The average debt load for grads of the Feinberg program was about $60,000. The faculty at each program are doing very different things, e.g. forensic psychology at Feinberg, so, again, you need to focus on matching with the specific faculty there.
 
This is regarding clinical psychology doctoral programs. I'm applying for medical school in the coming months, but was keeping clinical psychology graduate school as my back-up plan.

If you only answer one thing, answer this please: What are my chances at PsyD and/or phD programs with my credentials and experiences. Should I choose one over the other? apply for both? something else? Thank you so much!

It's not easy to be a competitive applicant for medical school and graduate school in psychology simultaneously. Both value good grades and research experience, but the latter is more essential to graduate school admissions. Other than grades and research experience, the med school and grad school admissions processes reward different things. Of course, they require different and non-comparable admissions tests (MCAT and GRE). Medical schools want to see volunteer and clinical experiences, whereas these matter little to the graduate school admissions process. Beyond grades and test scores, medical schools favor applicants who appear well rounded and community-minded, whereas graduate programs want to see evidence that you can adapt quickly and take on increasing responsibilities in a research setting, and stick with a problem or research topic long enough to have something to show for it. As you've surmised, this is your main liability right now - you have a semester here and a semester there of lab experience and that does not speak to a strong commitment to the field.

A couple of more sensible "back-up plans" for medical school admissions would be either (1) beef up your application and re-apply a subsequent year or (2) choose another career in the medical field (eg, physician assistant).

You'd probably need a more significant change in direction to make yourself competitive for graduate school in psychology, and that is true for both PhD programs and PsyD programs (I'm talking about accredited programs with good reputations, not programs that accept any middling applicant, because those aren't worth attending even as a fallback option). There's nothing holding you back from applying to see where you end up, but make sure it's what you really want. Medical school and grad school are apples and oranges.
 
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Thanks for the input guys! I think after thinking about it some, I really do want to have a clinical-based training and career, so maybe psychology is not the right route for me. My main focus overall is to help individuals suffering from mental illness (obviously there's more to it than that), but that's a general summary statement. I think I will continue to make my application stronger for med school (which I think it's not too bad right now), and apply broadly to that. To be honest, I have a lot more interest in the clinical side of things and barely any interest in research. So I think your comments about not doing psychology are valid.

I just need to do more research on up plans to medical school (or things to strengthen application if I don't get in this year and want to reapply next year) since physician assistant programs recommend three years clinical experience, and I'm just not starting my first year in such a position. I don't think I can wait another three years to start grad school, 1 sure, 2 maybe, but not 3.

Thank you for the super-quick responses! I appreciate it!
 
Thanks for the input guys! I think after thinking about it some, I really do want to have a clinical-based training and career, so maybe psychology is not the right route for me. My main focus overall is to help individuals suffering from mental illness (obviously there's more to it than that), but that's a general summary statement. I think I will continue to make my application stronger for med school (which I think it's not too bad right now), and apply broadly to that. To be honest, I have a lot more interest in the clinical side of things and barely any interest in research. So I think your comments about not doing psychology are valid.

I just need to do more research on up plans to medical school (or things to strengthen application if I don't get in this year and want to reapply next year) since physician assistant programs recommend three years clinical experience, and I'm just not starting my first year in such a position. I don't think I can wait another three years to start grad school, 1 sure, 2 maybe, but not 3.

Thank you for the super-quick responses! I appreciate it!
Well, most graduates from doctoral programs in clinical psychology have careers providing clinical services, so it's not the case that a doctorate in clinical psychology means you have to have a career as a researcher or as faculty at a college or university.
 
Well, most graduates from doctoral programs in clinical psychology have careers providing clinical services, so it's not the case that a doctorate in clinical psychology means you have to have a career as a researcher or as faculty at a college or university.
Totally agree, but I think they will likely still have to take a couple of years to get relevant research experience and take the GRE to be competitive for psych anyway; time to clarify their goals. I agree with MamaPhD's assertion that clinical psych and medicine are apples and oranges, and one shouldn't necessary be a fallback to the other. If the OP wants to go to medical school and a psych PhD is the "backup plan", they're better off spending the 1-3 years improving their med application, IMO.
 
Totally agree, but I think they will likely still have to take a couple of years to get relevant research experience and take the GRE to be competitive for psych anyway; time to clarify their goals. I agree with MamaPhD's assertion that clinical psych and medicine are apples and oranges, and one shouldn't necessary be a fallback to the other. If the OP wants to go to medical school and a psych PhD is the "backup plan", they're better off spending the 1-3 years improving their med application, IMO.
Right, which is what I wrote in my earlier post. I just wanted to dispel the notion that getting research experience prior to and during graduate school means that psychologists are going to inevitably have research careers. Wanting to help people with mental illness is perfectly consistent with graduate training and the modal career outcomes for graduates supports this path.
 
It seems a little bit illogical that while there are a number of clinical psych careers that don't involve research, the legitimate grad schools require/highly encourage somewhat extensive research experience, even psyD. Is there something I'm missing here or is that just the nature of it?
 
It seems a little bit illogical that while there are a number of clinical psych careers that don't involve research, the legitimate grad schools require/highly encourage somewhat extensive research experience, even psyD. Is there something I'm missing here or is that just the nature of it?

Well, many clinical careers have some amount of research. Additionally, it's important to understand how to conduct and evaluate research as our field (at least the good parts of it) value empirically supported treatments. If you just wanted to be a therapist, get a masters or SW degree and go at it. If you want a lot more flexibility and higher earnings ceiling, the PhD is the way to go.
 
It seems a little bit illogical that while there are a number of clinical psych careers that don't involve research, the legitimate grad schools require/highly encourage somewhat extensive research experience, even psyD. Is there something I'm missing here or is that just the nature of it?
There is some variation between how much each PsyD program values research, but it's more the neuropsych aspect of PsyD programs that place additional emphasis on research. In order to be a neuropsychologist you need to match with an internship in your 5th year that offers a good amount of neuro training as well as a neuropsych post-doc after that. In order to by competitive for both of those you need to have a fair amount of neuro research during grad school on top of your neuro clinical practicum placements. Also, every PsyD program I interviewed at required their students to complete a dissertation as part of their doctorate, albeit the dissertations were less extensive than a typical PhD dissertation. If you want a program that offers neuro training, but is very clinically focused I'd check out Widener.
 
There is some variation between how much each PsyD program values research, but it's more the neuropsych aspect of PsyD programs that place additional emphasis on research. In order to be a neuropsychologist you need to match with an internship in your 5th year that offers a good amount of neuro training as well as a neuropsych post-doc after that. In order to by competitive for both of those you need to have a fair amount of neuro research during grad school on top of your neuro clinical practicum placements. Also, every PsyD program I interviewed at required their students to complete a dissertation as part of their doctorate, albeit the dissertations were less extensive than a typical PhD dissertation. If you want a program that offers neuro training, but is very clinically focused I'd check out Widener.

Ehhh, I'd look fairly broadly. I haven't been particularly impressed with the applicants I've had from this one. Small n, yes, but an observation nonetheless.
 
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Ehhh, I'd look fairly broadly. I haven't been particularly impressed with the applicants I've had from this one. Small n, yes, but an observation nonetheless.
Perfectly fair. I just mentioned it off the top of my head because when I interviewed there they really emphasized that they don't do a lot of research.
 
I think there might be some confusion. I don't actually want to do a Neuropsychology program, that's just my undergraduate major. I'm looking at just Clinical Psychology.
 
I think there might be some confusion. I don't actually want to do a Neuropsychology program, that's just my undergraduate major. I'm looking at just Clinical Psychology.
My mistake I misunderstood you. Research is still important and its definitely weighed heavier than med school admissions. On the other hand GPA/GRE are less important for grad school than GPA/MCAT is for med school. Do you have any clinical experiences? Those can make up for less research for some PsyD programs. You have nothing to lose by applying though because you never know. I would definitely make sure that you only apply to quality programs though.
 
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