"Wanna-be's and fakes...I thought you were better than that!"

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pjc199

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After finally receiving my first interview this week, I got the teary-eyed motherly phone call and congratulations. The next morning, I was shocked by the total turnaround. My mother is a PA who works with a top neurosurgeon (MD). The surgeon has always been very good to me and has always viewed me as a shiny penny...I was a person of great character, great intellect, and a passion for people. However, after hearing from my mother that I was attempting to gain addmission into an osteopathic institution, he told my mother that I was settling for much less and that osteopaths are wanna-be's and fakes and that I was wasting my time. It hurt since he really made my mother beleive that the ultimate goal of me obtaining my D.O. one day was useless. It's kinda sad to think that although I am going into my interview striving for acceptance, I have this gut feeling that I should run for the Caribbean MD degree. I feel like my family will always view me as having a scarlet letter on my back. I know that I have what it takes to be a successful surgeon one day and yet, I will probably never have my family's respect.
 
well, umm, good luck....
 
If you care that much what others think then do what they want. If you are truly an independent person travel the path you feel is best for you.

Good Luck
 
I think you should ask yourself if YOU want to be a DO. It is a highly respected profession, but if you are only going into it because you couldn't get into an MD program, then it won't be right for you. Save the seats for those that do want to be osteopathic physicians. You have to do what's right for you, and noone on this board can give you the answer you are looking for. Goodluck with it. :luck:
 
I can assure you that this neurosurgeon will not respect a caribbean degree,so going there wont help you in his eyes and your mother will find plenty of people to tell her its a bogus degree.You need to re-think this situation,as your lack of enthusiam will give you away at your interviews.You are not confident in the course of action you have taken regarding your applications,regain your confidence or prepare yourself for more problems when the acceptances come in and you wont know what to do,then you will spend your time studying the DO vs Caribbean MD threads.
 
pjc199 said:
After finally receiving my first interview this week, I got the teary-eyed motherly phone call and congratulations. The next morning, I was shocked by the total turnaround. My mother is a PA who works with a top neurosurgeon (MD). The surgeon has always been very good to me and has always viewed me as a shiny penny...I was a person of great character, great intellect, and a passion for people. However, after hearing from my mother that I was attempting to gain addmission into an osteopathic institution, he told my mother that I was settling for much less and that osteopaths are wanna-be's and fakes and that I was wasting my time. It hurt since he really made my mother beleive that the ultimate goal of me obtaining my D.O. one day was useless. It's kinda sad to think that although I am going into my interview striving for acceptance, I have this gut feeling that I should run for the Caribbean MD degree. I feel like my family will always view me as having a scarlet letter on my back. I know that I have what it takes to be a successful surgeon one day and yet, I will probably never have my family's respect.


the surgeon sounds like an insecure tool. it's the same bull$hit ignorance and snobbery that these people perpetuate, grounded in nothing other than misinformation and the frantic need to be considered superior. poor neurosurgeon, you should feel bad that he has to belittle others to make himself feel all special inside.

no part of a license to practice as a full physician is fake. there's nothing "wanna-be" about equal practice rights with M.D.s. despite what some may think or wish was true, these are facts. don't let anyone take away your pride in getting into med school (most likely). you worked your a$$ off to get where you are, and getting in at all is a monumental accomplishment. hell, getting an interview is amazing with all the people that apply. be proud that you have already gotten so far, and will most likely get in and be in med school this time next year.

go where you'll be happy, not where your family, friends or assorted docs think you should go. if you wanna go to the caribbean, go for it. but please don't think that as a D.O. you'll never get anywhere, and don't think that an M.D. is an advantage for anything other than for a few very select specialties.

i've worked with lots of D.O.s (including neuro and orthopaedic surgeons) and i can assure you that their luxury cars look exactly the same as the M.D.s. the D.O.s are, however, better surgeons, as well as being nicer and better looking. :meanie:
 
otter1812 said:
Save the seats for those that do want to be osteopathic physicians. QUOTE]

Sure in the perfect world, only kids who believe in the DO theory would go to DO school, but realistically, if you want to become a doctor, most of us choose the path of least resistance, whether that be MD, MD at a lesser known school, DO, MD abroad, post-bacc, whatever... Once you're a doctor, I believe it doesn't matter all that much, I've seen good doctor and bad doctors with no correlation to the 2 letters following their name. That being said, the letters behind your name do have alot to do with the opportunities you're going to have. If you truely believe you have what it takes to be a great surgeon, I don't think it matters if you go DO or MD, with a few exceptions. I know tons of people who match general surgery as DO's. However, if you want to go into ENT, plastics, ortho, and ophth, or neurosurgery like your mom's friend the opportunities to match as a DO are alot harder to come by (alot harder for carribean MD's). Do a little more research and you might decide you want to explore other options, or keep going the DO route, but don't let anyone convince you that MD's are naturally better doctors, or that you need to believe in the DO philosophy if you want to be a DO. Good luck
 
pjc199 said:
After finally receiving my first interview this week, I got the teary-eyed motherly phone call and congratulations. The next morning, I was shocked by the total turnaround. My mother is a PA who works with a top neurosurgeon (MD). The surgeon has always been very good to me and has always viewed me as a shiny penny...I was a person of great character, great intellect, and a passion for people. However, after hearing from my mother that I was attempting to gain addmission into an osteopathic institution, he told my mother that I was settling for much less and that osteopaths are wanna-be's and fakes and that I was wasting my time. It hurt since he really made my mother beleive that the ultimate goal of me obtaining my D.O. one day was useless. It's kinda sad to think that although I am going into my interview striving for acceptance, I have this gut feeling that I should run for the Caribbean MD degree. I feel like my family will always view me as having a scarlet letter on my back. I know that I have what it takes to be a successful surgeon one day and yet, I will probably never have my family's respect.

I saw this post, and I felt I needed to comment. I don't often come to this forum (if I ever have, actually, I can't remember right now) anyway...

I just wanted to comment, as a Caribbean student, that you should keep the faith. I want you to know that, if you get and accept an osteopathic spot, you should have absolutely no concern for your future in the medical profession. Osteopaths have great opportunities, every bit as good as the vast majority of MD graduates in the U.S. (unless you are fortunate enough to get to go to Harvard or Wash U or Duke, etc., which as we know do not make up the majority of doctors practicing in the U.S.). Additionally, you will have access to certain osteopathic residencies with cool combinations like Family Practice/Emergency Medicine that currently don't have official board recognition in the allopathic world.

I think this neurosurgeon that your mom works with might be (1) a bit misinformed, and (2) not in completely in touch with reality. I'm sure he went to a top allopathic school and got into a great Neurosurgery residency somewhere, which is also a top-choice field. He's practicing in a field that is predominated by MD's, and likely always will be. Likewise, I'd bet that he went to medical school years ago and is unaware at just how far the field of osteopathy has come in the past twenty years. In other words, his perspective is probably a bit tainted. Unless you want to be a neurosurgeon, you should take his comments with a seriously large grain of salt.

You ultimately need to do what you want to do. And, going to an osteopathic school will, in the end, get you where you want to go. In fact, I just finished a clerkship (i.e., 4th year rotation) at a U.S. allopathic medical school as a visiting student. The chief resident of the anesthesiology program I did the rotation at, that had 44 other residents mostly MDs mainly from U.S. schools, was an osteopath! So, not only do they get great residency opportunities alongside of MDs, they can also rise to the highest possible level in the program. It is very prestigious to be named "Chief Resident", and this is a highly respected program.

Instead of worrying about what this doctor thinks, try instead to educate him. He may just simply not have the most current information on osteopathic education in the U.S. You can tell him that you'd be eligible to sit for all the same exams as allopathic students, and you could also apply to the same residency programs. Also, you can tell him that you'd have board eligibility the same as an MD in your given field, which could be surgery, anesthesiology, orthopedics... This may serve multiple benefits, and provide you an opportunity to teach HIM something. It might also help allay your mom's fears, as this doctor is someone you both clearly respect quite a bit.

I'm not dismissing the Caribbean route, provided you'd choose to go to one of the established reputable schools, but don't think that this is automatically a better option simply because you don't want to have "D.O." behind your name. Trust me, this route is equally fraught with its challenges. And, you'd have to face many different but equally frustrating obstacles, misunderstandings, bias, and prejudice if you went made that choice just so you can get an MD. So, it's not like Caribbean is a better option than D.O. by any means. You should be very aware of that.

I advise you to not worry so much about what this one person says. Think about it. Consider it. But, try to maintain some perspective. He certainly is not speaking as the "voice of the majority" on this subject. Take it as if he's provided you with a great opportunity to teach about something he doesn't know very much about. And, if he's not willing to listen, then perhaps you've placed too much stock in his opinion in the first place.

🙂

Good luck to you.

-Skip
MS4 Ross University
 
what really matter is if how you do on your boads. if you go to Harvard and don't pass the level test, it would sure seem that you have wasted your time.
 
To the OP-
If you give into this type of thinking and mentality you will always be miserable. There will always be someone who is able to "look down on you". MD Surgeons look down on FP MDs, for example. If you let this bother you you'll go thru life completely unhappy.

Look, you know your reasons for going DO-you know they are equal to MDs, you know that most informed people in the world respect DOs- you know you'll have equal opportunities for practice...

The point is-it doesn't matter what this one image conscious person thinks. What matters is what you think.

The only thing you can learn from this situation is this "oh, I really respected and looked up to that MD surgeon-I didn't realize he was so close minded and bigoted." Perhaps you can use this as an opporunity to enlighten him about DOs. If that thought makes you groan-don't go DO-because you will be doing a lot of that over the years.
 
Skip Intro said:
I saw this post, and I felt I needed to comment. I don't often come to this forum (if I ever have, actually, I can't remember right now) anyway...

I just wanted to comment, as a Caribbean student, that you should keep the faith. I want you to know that, if you get and accept an osteopathic spot, you should have absolutely no concern for your future in the medical profession. Osteopaths have great opportunities, every bit as good as the vast majority of MD graduates in the U.S. (unless you are fortunate enough to get to go to Harvard or Wash U or Duke, etc., which as we know do not make up the majority of doctors practicing in the U.S.). Additionally, you will have access to certain osteopathic residencies with cool combinations like Family Practice/Emergency Medicine that currently don't have official board recognition in the allopathic world.

I think this neurosurgeon that your mom works with might be (1) a bit misinformed, and (2) not in completely in touch with reality. I'm sure he went to a top allopathic school and got into a great Neurosurgery residency somewhere, which is also a top-choice field. He's practicing in a field that is predominated by MD's, and likely always will be. Likewise, I'd bet that he went to medical school years ago and is unaware at just how far the field of osteopathy has come in the past twenty years. In other words, his perspective is probably a bit tainted. Unless you want to be a neurosurgeon, you should take his comments with a seriously large grain of salt.

You ultimately need to do what you want to do. And, going to an osteopathic school will, in the end, get you where you want to go. In fact, I just finished a clerkship (i.e., 4th year rotation) at a U.S. allopathic medical school as a visiting student. The chief resident of the anesthesiology program I did the rotation at, that had 44 other residents mostly MDs mainly from U.S. schools, was an osteopath! So, not only do they get great residency opportunities alongside of MDs, they can also rise to the highest possible level in the program. It is very prestigious to be named "Chief Resident", and this is a highly respected program.

Instead of worrying about what this doctor thinks, try instead to educate him. He may just simply not have the most current information on osteopathic education in the U.S. You can tell him that you'd be eligible to sit for all the same exams as allopathic students, and you could also apply to the same residency programs. Also, you can tell him that you'd have board eligibility the same as an MD in your given field, which could be surgery, anesthesiology, orthopedics... This may serve multiple benefits, and provide you an opportunity to teach HIM something. It might also help allay your mom's fears, as this doctor is someone you both clearly respect quite a bit.

I'm not dismissing the Caribbean route, provided you'd choose to go to one of the established reputable schools, but don't think that this is automatically a better option simply because you don't want to have "D.O." behind your name. Trust me, this route is equally fraught with its challenges. And, you'd have to face many different but equally frustrating obstacles, misunderstandings, bias, and prejudice if you went made that choice just so you can get an MD. So, it's not like Caribbean is a better option than D.O. by any means. You should be very aware of that.

I advise you to not worry so much about what this one person says. Think about it. Consider it. But, try to maintain some perspective. He certainly is not speaking as the "voice of the majority" on this subject. Take it as if he's provided you with a great opportunity to teach about something he doesn't know very much about. And, if he's not willing to listen, then perhaps you've placed too much stock in his opinion in the first place.

🙂

Good luck to you.

-Skip
MS4 Ross University
I am surprised at your pro-DO post. I applaud you skip and you've gone a notch up in my eyes. :horns:
 
Buck Strong said:
[

Sure in the perfect world, only kids who believe in the DO theory would go to DO school, but realistically, if you want to become a doctor, most of us choose the path of least resistance, whether that be MD, MD at a lesser known school, DO, MD abroad, post-bacc, whatever... Good luck

Thats actually a good point, in itself.
 
Sharky said:
I am surprised at your pro-DO post. I applaud you skip and you've gone a notch up in my eyes. :horns:

You should pay closer attention more often. 😉

-Skip
 
If you feel this way, then you really need to reassess your passion and your desire to become a DO. Your belief and your honesty in the pursuit of an Osteopathic education may not be as strong as you originally thought. In the meantime, don't allow this person to diminish your character. Gather some courage and most definitely some confidence in your decisions. You obviously have the traits of good character whether you are an allopathic or an osteopathic physician you will be a good doctor. Good luck.
 
that dr. jack said:
the surgeon sounds like an insecure tool. it's the same bull$hit ignorance and snobbery that these people perpetuate, grounded in nothing other than misinformation and the frantic need to be considered superior. poor neurosurgeon, you should feel bad that he has to belittle others to make himself feel all special inside.


Well said.....this sums up everything I was going to say. Nice and direct.
 
pjc199 said:
After finally receiving my first interview this week, I got the teary-eyed motherly phone call and congratulations. The next morning, I was shocked by the total turnaround. My mother is a PA who works with a top neurosurgeon (MD). The surgeon has always been very good to me and has always viewed me as a shiny penny...I was a person of great character, great intellect, and a passion for people. However, after hearing from my mother that I was attempting to gain addmission into an osteopathic institution, he told my mother that I was settling for much less and that osteopaths are wanna-be's and fakes and that I was wasting my time. It hurt since he really made my mother beleive that the ultimate goal of me obtaining my D.O. one day was useless. It's kinda sad to think that although I am going into my interview striving for acceptance, I have this gut feeling that I should run for the Caribbean MD degree. I feel like my family will always view me as having a scarlet letter on my back. I know that I have what it takes to be a successful surgeon one day and yet, I will probably never have my family's respect.

This is certainly the exception! I am a DO, graduating class of 2004 at Western University. In my clinical years I worked and trained mostly with MDs that were pleased and impressed with my knowledge and training to that point. I am in my first year of residency in anesthesiology at an MD institution. From our class, there were graduates accepted into residencies at Loma Linda University, UCLA, USC, UCSF, University of Pennsylvania, University of Washington, University of Texas, and many other top-notch MD residency programs. DO graduates and medical students can hold their own with the MD students/graduates. Truth be known, my MD colleagues see no difference between the MD and DO degrees. In fact, many of my DO colleagues and I were aggresively recruited by MD residency programs.

Fortunately, at this point in my career, I am training with a select group of very educated professionals that are impressed with my training and want nothing more than to make sure I get the best training I can from them so that I can carry on their legacy. My best friend is a DO that is graduating from his orthopedic surgery residency--his MD attendings constantly say that he has some of the best techniques that they have ever seen.

When I was preparing for medical school in Charlottesville, VA and Washington, DC, I heard just the opposite. My mother-in-law asked several physicians what they thought about osteopathic physicians. The response was overwhelmingly positive--because they had worked with a DO at some point in their career. I have taken both the COMLEX and USMLE boards step I and II. I did better on the USMLE on both exams than I did on the COMLEX.

As a training anesthesiologist, I work with all types of surgeons and have NEVER heard any derision or derogatory comments. Don't let one person dampen what you have accomplished. You need to enjoy your interviews and be excited about the school you select for your medical education. This is one of the most exciting times of your life. If you would like, send me a personal message and I can talk with you further on the subject. Fortunately, this is a very educated and professional realm and comments such as those by said neurosurgeon are very rare.
 
Skip Intro said:
I saw this post, and I felt I needed to comment. I don't often come to this forum (if I ever have, actually, I can't remember right now) anyway...

I just wanted to comment, as a Caribbean student, that you should keep the faith. I want you to know that, if you get and accept an osteopathic spot, you should have absolutely no concern for your future in the medical profession. Osteopaths have great opportunities, every bit as good as the vast majority of MD graduates in the U.S. (unless you are fortunate enough to get to go to Harvard or Wash U or Duke, etc., which as we know do not make up the majority of doctors practicing in the U.S.). Additionally, you will have access to certain osteopathic residencies with cool combinations like Family Practice/Emergency Medicine that currently don't have official board recognition in the allopathic world.

I think this neurosurgeon that your mom works with might be (1) a bit misinformed, and (2) not in completely in touch with reality. I'm sure he went to a top allopathic school and got into a great Neurosurgery residency somewhere, which is also a top-choice field. He's practicing in a field that is predominated by MD's, and likely always will be. Likewise, I'd bet that he went to medical school years ago and is unaware at just how far the field of osteopathy has come in the past twenty years. In other words, his perspective is probably a bit tainted. Unless you want to be a neurosurgeon, you should take his comments with a seriously large grain of salt.

You ultimately need to do what you want to do. And, going to an osteopathic school will, in the end, get you where you want to go. In fact, I just finished a clerkship (i.e., 4th year rotation) at a U.S. allopathic medical school as a visiting student. The chief resident of the anesthesiology program I did the rotation at, that had 44 other residents mostly MDs mainly from U.S. schools, was an osteopath! So, not only do they get great residency opportunities alongside of MDs, they can also rise to the highest possible level in the program. It is very prestigious to be named "Chief Resident", and this is a highly respected program.

Instead of worrying about what this doctor thinks, try instead to educate him. He may just simply not have the most current information on osteopathic education in the U.S. You can tell him that you'd be eligible to sit for all the same exams as allopathic students, and you could also apply to the same residency programs. Also, you can tell him that you'd have board eligibility the same as an MD in your given field, which could be surgery, anesthesiology, orthopedics... This may serve multiple benefits, and provide you an opportunity to teach HIM something. It might also help allay your mom's fears, as this doctor is someone you both clearly respect quite a bit.

I'm not dismissing the Caribbean route, provided you'd choose to go to one of the established reputable schools, but don't think that this is automatically a better option simply because you don't want to have "D.O." behind your name. Trust me, this route is equally fraught with its challenges. And, you'd have to face many different but equally frustrating obstacles, misunderstandings, bias, and prejudice if you went made that choice just so you can get an MD. So, it's not like Caribbean is a better option than D.O. by any means. You should be very aware of that.

I advise you to not worry so much about what this one person says. Think about it. Consider it. But, try to maintain some perspective. He certainly is not speaking as the "voice of the majority" on this subject. Take it as if he's provided you with a great opportunity to teach about something he doesn't know very much about. And, if he's not willing to listen, then perhaps you've placed too much stock in his opinion in the first place.

🙂

Good luck to you.

-Skip
MS4 Ross University

Impressive insight.
 
pjc199 said:
It's kinda sad to think that although I am going into my interview striving for acceptance, I have this gut feeling that I should run for the Caribbean MD degree. I feel like my family will always view me as having a scarlet letter on my back. I know that I have what it takes to be a successful surgeon one day and yet, I will probably never have my family's respect.

Thats so messed up, you'll still be a doctor! DO's are much more prominent than what most pre meds think, you just need to talk to more docs. Oh, and the thing with your family. Just wait until you prescribe some antibiotics for a family member's sore throat or something, they'll see you as a doc, dont worry about it. Good luck.
 
Wahoowa said:
This is certainly the exception! I am a DO, graduating class of 2004 at Western University. In my clinical years I worked and trained mostly with MDs that were pleased and impressed with my knowledge and training to that point. I am in my first year of residency in anesthesiology at an MD institution. From our class, there were graduates accepted into residencies at Loma Linda University, UCLA, USC, UCSF, University of Pennsylvania, University of Washington, University of Texas, and many other top-notch MD residency programs. DO graduates and medical students can hold their own with the MD students/graduates. Truth be known, my MD colleagues see no difference between the MD and DO degrees. In fact, many of my DO colleagues and I were aggresively recruited by MD residency programs.

Fortunately, at this point in my career, I am training with a select group of very educated professionals that are impressed with my training and want nothing more than to make sure I get the best training I can from them so that I can carry on their legacy. My best friend is a DO that is graduating from his orthopedic surgery residency--his MD attendings constantly say that he has some of the best techniques that they have ever seen.

When I was preparing for medical school in Charlottesville, VA and Washington, DC, I heard just the opposite. My mother-in-law asked several physicians what they thought about osteopathic physicians. The response was overwhelmingly positive--because they had worked with a DO at some point in their career. I have taken both the COMLEX and USMLE boards step I and II. I did better on the USMLE on both exams than I did on the COMLEX.

As a training anesthesiologist, I work with all types of surgeons and have NEVER heard any derision or derogatory comments. Don't let one person dampen what you have accomplished. You need to enjoy your interviews and be excited about the school you select for your medical education. This is one of the most exciting times of your life. If you would like, send me a personal message and I can talk with you further on the subject. Fortunately, this is a very educated and professional realm and comments such as those by said neurosurgeon are very rare.


GREAT POST!! I think many of us needed to hear this for some reason or another. Thanks
 
I have a friend who Is a Grad from the University of Arizona M.D.1997
He states the Two best surgeon he has ever seen are both D.O. and woman to Boot.
He Is a Current resident at John Hopkins right now. So it really does not matter what school you go to it depends on you.
and the Passion and effort you want to give in becoming a Great Physician.
😛
 
I must say, on the whole, there are actually many really good opinions on this subject thus far... I applaud most of you... Further, there are many uneducated docs out there that dont understand that DO = MD + OMT.... in many ways... sure numbers say what they do, but in the end there is Still(Andrew Taylor type) equality....

TO OP

Good LUCK! I feel your pain, my mother was the same way, yet now, She is more excited that anyone else I know... I used some OMT on her Back!... she is a believer now.... Everheard the statement, I will know the problem, when I get my hands around it.... well osteopathy cannot take credit so far as I know, but is this not a great use of the term?

Osteopathic Medicine, We know the root of the problem: We get our hands Around IT!

May you be fortunate and wise!

Ian
 
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