Wannabe Pediatric Surgeon - Medical School Question/Research

[Doko]

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Hello Surgeons,

I'm sorry to make a thread regarding such a menial subject, but I'm in real need of some advice.

You see, I'm in the process of applying to medical schools right now and it has been my dream to become a pediatric surgeon, which I am fairly certain I want to be based on all of my experiences.

I know that I have to do a Gen Surg Residency (5 yrs) + 2 yrs research + 2 yr peds surg fellowship.

The question that I have is choosing between two medical schools. Normally, I wouldn't stress about it, but in such a competitive subspecialty, I know that the medical school matters in securing a good residency.

So I'm stuck between choosing Vanderbilt and CCLCM (Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine).

CCLCM is a new medical school program that is 5 years (4 years of med school + 1 year of research). But the reason why I'm hesitant to go here is because I don't want to waste a year of doing research if I have to do it after residency anyway. Furthermore, Vanderbilt seems like it would have a better education for a med student wanting to go into surgery.

Any advice would be REALLY appreciated!

THANK YOU!

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
It is not your medical school but how well you do in medical school that will determine where you land in residency. Go to the school that you feel you can do the best and then get the job done.

Doing well in medical school and on USMLE is less school dependent and more individual dependent. Do well, study hard, get the grades and scores. The top graduates of a low ranked medical school go much further than the low ranked graduates of a higher ranked medical school.

If you have AOA, good grades, good contacts (even these can be obtained from any medical school), you can control your fate. If you don't do well, surgery is probably going to be out of your reach anyway.

njbmd 🙂

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I would echo the above advice... I attend a lower tier public medical school that is heavily primary care oriented. This year of four people applying for urology (a competitive field) all four of my classmates matched. Doing well and performing on the above listed things can get you where you need to go no matter your school. Pick the one where you'll want to live and feel as though you'd be most happy as this can have a big impact on your performance.

 

[geekgirl]

Hello Surgeons,

I'm sorry to make a thread regarding such a menial subject, but I'm in real need of some advice.

You see, I'm in the process of applying to medical schools right now and it has been my dream to become a pediatric surgeon, which I am fairly certain I want to be based on all of my experiences.

I know that I have to do a Gen Surg Residency (5 yrs) + 2 yrs research + 2 yr peds surg fellowship.

The question that I have is choosing between two medical schools. Normally, I wouldn't stress about it, but in such a competitive subspecialty, I know that the medical school matters in securing a good residency.

So I'm stuck between choosing Vanderbilt and CCLCM (Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine).

CCLCM is a new medical school program that is 5 years (4 years of med school + 1 year of research). But the reason why I'm hesitant to go here is because I don't want to waste a year of doing research if I have to do it after residency anyway. Furthermore, Vanderbilt seems like it would have a better education for a med student wanting to go into surgery.

Any advice would be REALLY appreciated!

THANK YOU!

i agree with the others, or course. but i also would say that if you think the programs are equal academically and are thinking of research time later, go where you can streamline your training right now. i'm a big fan of research (obviously, i'm an MD/PhD), but if you have your eye on doing research later, do what you can now to continue with medicine (unless you love the research focused program more for personal reasons) and do your research years later when it's more relevant to your career.
regardless, it sounds like all your choices are good. but the above posters are right - do well, study, get experience. that is more important than other things, really.

 

[Blade28]

Wow...you're thinking WAY too far in advance. Just concentrate on doing well in med school and residency. You've still got, what, at least 12 years until the start of fellowship?!

 

[locitamd]

Wow...you've still got, what, at least 12 years until the start of fellowship?!

wow, that's depressing: even though I've only got 7 more years before fellowship.

 

[John K. Toole]

wow, that's depressing: even though I've only got 7 more years before fellowship.

Hey there,

So, I disagree with the earlier posts that assert that your school does not matter as much as your grades, etc. Although your grades and boards scores are critical, your letters of rec and your exposure are VERY important. First and foremost, before offering any advice, I would strongly echo the previous poster who said to slow down and consider other options...there are many great fields in medicine, and there are equally awesome surgical subspecialities. That being said, from one aspiring ped surgeon to another, I would strongly consider Vandy over the Cleveland program for the following reasons:

Academic surgery and ESPECIALLY Peds Surg are very very small worlds where everyone knows everyone else. I went to a powerhouse surgery medical school (not knowing that I wanted to be a surgeon at first--just got lucky), and it has helped me immensely. Getting letters from prominent surgeons will get you interviews at great residency programs (coupled with board scores, grades, etc). You will need to go to a TOP residency to get a peds surg fellowship, as this is widely considered to be the most competitive fellowship due to the small number of positions available. You will be a step ahead of the game if you have had medical school training at a great surgical hospital like Vanderbilt, and you will get letters from people who know the PDs and Chairs at all of the great residencies.

Now, this is not to say that you can't train in Cleveland, meet great mentors, and succeed in matching at a strong program. If this is a better fit for you, you should go there. Go with you gut. If, however, it is truly a toss up, I would strongly consider the fact that Vanderbilt is very established as a leader in academic surgery and will set you up on the right course early on.

Hope that helps....

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I can definitely see where the above poster is coming from. I will say that my friends that all matched in uro had to do aways at big name places and kick a$$....It can be done from smaller, less well-known medical schools but it might be a bit harder...

Take time to enjoy things a bit as putting so much pressure on yourself now could lead to some burnout later on. Relax, work hard, and be confident and let the cards fall where they will.

 

[dark horse]

I am an M2 also intersted in peds surgery. I was just curious what kind of USMLE score you need to get into a competetive surgery program that would give you a good shot. I come from a smaller primary care based school, and I am at the upper quarter of the class.

 

[Frictionbaby]

I am an M2 also intersted in peds surgery. I was just curious what kind of USMLE score you need to get into a competetive surgery program that would give you a good shot. I come from a smaller primary care based school, and I am at the upper quarter of the class.

For what its worth, and from everything I was told before applying to residency programs:

--220s get you plenty of interviews (community and some "lower tier" academic programs), but few if any "top tier" academic programs.

--230's get you into virtually all community and a large number of academic programs, maybe even some "top" programs.

--240's get you into virtually any and all doors all over the nation (just a generalization, don't get mad at me if you didn't get an interview somewhere!)

--250's+ more of the same

That being said, USMLE scores aren't the only thing they look at, though many top academic programs likely have "cut-offs" (probably in the 230-240 range) due to the high volume of apps they get. I spoke to a lot of applicants on the interview trail at some of the top programs in the nation who said they had "below average" step I scores and still got offered interviews because they did away rotations at these top programs and impressed all the attendings and residents. Though that doesn't mean they will get ranked highly, they got their feet in the door, even with less than stellar scores. Obviously, the more desirable the rest of your application, the above ranges for Step I may be altered.


Sounds like your class ranking is on key. AOA is also asked about by most of the top programs. If you've done research and have publications, this is a plus. Top grades in clerkships carry much larger weight than I thought they would...for example, Vanderbilt's PD scours your entire application (including the grade you made in psych) and if you aren't stellar in virtually every one of his stringent areas, you don't get interviewed...even if you aced surgery clerkships.

LORs from big named surgeons, whether at your program or one that you do away rotations. The chair at my program is known throughout the nation, and there wasn't one interview I went on where I wasn't asked about him, my work exposure with him, etc. I can't speak for away rotations being good or bad as I got lucky and did well on step I, and I didn't feel it necessary to do away rotations to increase my chances. If you think you can make a good impression and do that for an entire month, probably a good thing. If you have a hard time impressing people, working hard, or are an @sshole in general, you may actually Bogart yourself from getting interviewed. If at all possible, introduce yourself to the big-wigs and try to get them on your side.

Thus, there are many factors that you can focus on to boost your application other than Step I, but preparing hard and rocking step I will definitely relieve a good deal of stress when applying and interviewing...you can be in the driver seat so to speak.

Thus: Work hard in clerkships, keep class standing high, away rotations if you are worried about Step I score or prestige of your surgeons at your own program aren't "well known" or "well published". Don't forget to be a well-rounded person, volunteer, be a leader, all things that will increase your chances for AOA. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to pm me. Good luck