Was I wrong to tell my fat premed friend to lose weight? (srs)

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flatearth22

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Please respect the srs tag, this actually happened over the weekend.

I have a pretty close college friend who is applying to med school this cycle. He's a really smart and chill guy....got a 35 on his MCAT and his GPA is easily higher than mine (3.6) and might even be as high as 3.9+. He's got significant research and has presented at different conferences around the country and has spent the last 2 years doing clinical research and random volunteering. The only "issue" with him is that he's obese. If I were to guess I'd say he's around 5'9-5'10'' and pushing 300 lbs if not higher. What's worse is that he has really narrow shoulders and skinny legs and stores a lot of his fat in his gut, hips, and moobs (like Jonah Hill before he lost weight....aka does NOT look good in a suit).

Now I've known this guy for almost 5 years and have never seen him exercise (I used to invite him to play basketball with us but he always refused). Also, whenever we eat out he shows unhealthy tendencies and always orders more food/bigger portions and even has dessert when the rest of us don't. So his weight issue is most definitely caused by lifestyle and not some weird metabolism or anything.

Well we were hanging out this weekend and he was asking me for some advice about the upcoming application cycle. I gave him the usual spiel about applying early, prewriting secondaries, researching schools, etc. but then also told him that he should try and lose a lot of weight this summer because it might be held against him at interviews. I mentioned that in all the interviews I attended I probably saw one obese individual total and that most everybody was lean and fit. Well he got pretty defensive and offended by it and has now stopped responding to my texts and facebook messages. I think he'll get over it eventually but was I wrong for bringing it up and telling him to lose weight considering his lifestyle and future professional goals?

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I agree with the general observation of fit people at interviews.

I don't know enough about your friendship to qualify what you should or shouldn't have told him.

Good luck!
 
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I'd side with you in theory, did you tell him gently though (not in an attack-mode type way)? It's obvious that being obese can't help you in any professional field.

It sounds like he's heard stuff like this from others (family, etc) a lot, and doesn't put up with it. I was the same way, and it's hard to accept it at first (recognizing you are overweight and realizing that you must change your habits).
 
I don't know if it was wrong for you tell him to lose weight, because with all the doctors I work with..well..none of them really tolerate overweight people or people who smoke/drink/do drugs.
 
I go to one of the larger med schools in the country, and I can't think of any fat people who aren't URM. I do think there is a massive bias against overweight applicants. He deserves to know that.
 
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I'm not going to lie when I interviewed for medical school I did not see a single obese person out of the 8 schools I interviewed. Even at my school now the class is pretty fit. The interview is all about presentation so if you end up being obese you're going to run into discrimination. Medical schools want professional looking students and you pretty much indicated that to him indirectly. I think you did the right thing, no need to fret.
 
I go to one of the larger med schools in the country, and I can't think of any fat people who aren't URM. I do think there is a massive bias against overweight applicants. He deserves to know that.

:eek: oh boy...
 
I go to one of the larger med schools in the country, and I can't think of any fat people who aren't URM. I do think there is a massive bias against overweight applicants. He deserves to know that.

That's a little idiotic to say mate because I've seen fit and obese people URM or not. There was no reason to bring race into this.
 
I'd side with you in theory, did you tell him gently though (not in an attack-mode type way)? It's obvious that being obese can't help you in any professional field.

It sounds like he's heard stuff like this from others (family, etc) a lot, and doesn't put up with it. I was the same way, and it's hard to accept it at first (recognizing you are overweight and realizing that you must change your habits).

Not word for word but it went down like this:

Me: So you know, interview season starts up in about 4 or 5 months. You should really consider losing some weight this summer for when you go on your interviews

Him: I was asking about advice about applying not life advice

Me: Well at all the interviews I was at there was only one person I remember who was obese and practically everyone there was lean and fit....it might count against you since it is medical school interviews.

Him: Whatever dude..

I go to one of the larger med schools in the country, and I can't think of any fat people who aren't URM. I do think there is a massive bias against overweight applicants. He deserves to know that.

Well there is a lot of self-selection going on. People who don't want/aren't able to take care of their own health usually aren't interested in taking care of other people's. health. That's why even at interviews there are so few overweight and obese people (compared to the representation of such people in society). My point telling him to lose weight this summer was that he would stand out (and not in a good way) at the interviews because he'd practically be the only person there out of shape and it would only count against him.
 
Besides...as much as we don't want to admit it, you've got a higher chance of being accepted if you're good looking.
 
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I was pretty heavy during interviews (220-230, six foot one) and I wouldn't doubt that it had an effect on me. I'm about to start a year off and one of my goals for the year is to slim down from 200 to about 180-190 or at least convert some of my weight to lean muscle by the time I start interviews.
 
He's probably struggled with his weight for most, if not all of his life. He's probably been made fun of for it throughout that time. It is a difficult topic for us fatties to talk about, and depending on how you approached it, he may have thought you were attacking him.
 
i'm a pretty big guy (6'2 225) and i didn't have any problems. but i do run and workout daily and i have a muscular build (ladies...;)). your approach does seem to come off as a little tactless but its the truth. you've done the right thing in the past by trying to get him to come play ball with you. i invited one of my obese friends to start running with me some a yr ago and hes lost 100 lbs.
If his MCAT is higher than his BMI, he'll be ok. ;)
:roflcopter:
 
Not word for word but it went down like this:

Me: So you know, interview season starts up in about 4 or 5 months. You should really consider losing some weight this summer for when you go on your interviews

Him: I was asking about advice about applying not life advice

Me: Well at all the interviews I was at there was only one person I remember who was obese and practically everyone there was lean and fit....it might count against you since it is medical school interviews.

Him: Whatever dude..

I understand that you were trying to be direct with it, but perhaps there was a better way to approach the issue. I'm sure he knows he should lose weight, and is probably self-conscious about it.

"Have you ever considered losing weight?" would have allowed him to make the decision to talk about it with you. I'm sure he has considered it, and if he says "No", take that as "Mind your own business".

I could be wrong, but I think that telling him what he should do makes him resist it. Some of the rules of leadership that I know suggest that we should make efforts to appeal to the fact that people are inherently stubborn and ego-driven. "Have you ever considered..." or "Do you think..." makes it seem like its their idea, then you just support their great idea and ask if there is anything you can do to help them accomplish their goal.
 
I told my albino friend to get some sun before his interviews.
 
i'm a pretty big guy (6'2 225) and i didn't have any problems. but i do run and workout daily and i have a muscular build (ladies...;)). your approach does seem to come off as a little tactless but its the truth. you've done the right thing in the past by trying to get him to come play ball with you. i invited one of my obese friends to start running with me some a yr ago and hes lost 100 lbs.

:roflcopter:

I think you guys are missing the point- 5'9" and 300 lbs is VERY different than 6 foot plus and low 200s.

I just calculated the BMI of someone who's 5'9 and 300 or 5'10" and 300 and its 43 and 44 respectively, so according to LizzM's response, unless your friend gets a 99.9th percentile on the MCAT, it WILL effect him. I don't think discrimination is fair, but the reality is that it happens. I think men have slightly more leeway with regards to weight (correct me if I'm wrong), but lots of physical factors can effect medical school admissions (severe acne, height, weight, etc). I do think you did you friend justice, although perhaps you could have mentioned it in a different way....Regardless, I know you were trying to give him the best chance possible.
 
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I just calculated the BMI of someone who's 5'9 and 300 or 5'10" and 300 and its 43 and 44 respectively, so according to LizzM's response, unless your friend gets a 99.9th percentile on the MCAT, it WILL effect him.

It was a joke, it's okay to laugh.

I think we need to modify the LizzyM scoring equation.

10*GPA + [MCAT - BMI]
 
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I saw mostly fit people on the interview trail, and I think it's partially self-selection. People who are motivated to do well in school and get involved in a lot of extracurriculars are probably more likely to be motivated to go to the gym and eat right. Not always, of course, and that's not at all to say that the opposite is true and that overweight people aren't motivated. I think pre-meds also tend to be perfectionists both academically and in terms of physical appearance. Still, I can't see an adcom going around and saying, "Well this person is way too fat to make a good doctor." It may or may not play into the subconscious mind of the interviewer.

OP, while your advice may have been legitimate for a number of reasons, do you really think this guy didn't know he was overweight? What did you expect, that he would say, "OMG flatearth22, thank you so much for telling me! I just had no idea my weight was a problem! I'll start training for a marathon and eating salads every day right away!"
 
I think you guys are missing the point- 5'9" and 300 lbs is VERY different than 6 foot plus and low 200s.

I just calculated the BMI of someone who's 5'9 and 300 or 5'10" and 300 and its 43 and 44 respectively, so according to LizzM's response, unless your friend gets a 99.9th percentile on the MCAT, it WILL effect him. I don't think discrimination is fair, but the reality is that it happens. I think men have slightly more leeway with regards to weight (correct me if I'm wrong), but lots of physical factors can effect medical school admissions (severe acne, height, weight, etc). I do think you did you friend justice, although perhaps you could have mentioned it in a different way....Regardless, I know you were trying to give him the best chance possible.
this. i saw more heavyset (or just heavier) male students than i did female.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5qM5kX2_C0&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
 
Sounds like your friend is kind of a BIG deal.
 
Fat people know they're fat, there's really no need to give them helpful advice on losing weight.
 
You need to have a heart to heart with him. If he's one of your best friends, I'd be there helping him lose weight this summer.
 
Please respect the srs tag, this actually happened over the weekend.

I have a pretty close college friend who is applying to med school this cycle. He's a really smart and chill guy....got a 35 on his MCAT and his GPA is easily higher than mine (3.6) and might even be as high as 3.9+. He's got significant research and has presented at different conferences around the country and has spent the last 2 years doing clinical research and random volunteering. The only "issue" with him is that he's obese. If I were to guess I'd say he's around 5'9-5'10'' and pushing 300 lbs if not higher. What's worse is that he has really narrow shoulders and skinny legs and stores a lot of his fat in his gut, hips, and moobs (like Jonah Hill before he lost weight....aka does NOT look good in a suit).

Now I've known this guy for almost 5 years and have never seen him exercise (I used to invite him to play basketball with us but he always refused). Also, whenever we eat out he shows unhealthy tendencies and always orders more food/bigger portions and even has dessert when the rest of us don't. So his weight issue is most definitely caused by lifestyle and not some weird metabolism or anything.

Well we were hanging out this weekend and he was asking me for some advice about the upcoming application cycle. I gave him the usual spiel about applying early, prewriting secondaries, researching schools, etc. but then also told him that he should try and lose a lot of weight this summer because it might be held against him at interviews. I mentioned that in all the interviews I attended I probably saw one obese individual total and that most everybody was lean and fit. Well he got pretty defensive and offended by it and has now stopped responding to my texts and facebook messages. I think he'll get over it eventually but was I wrong for bringing it up and telling him to lose weight considering his lifestyle and future professional goals?



You have the right idea in this situation, but I don't think that you took the correct approach in the way you talked to him. Instead of telling him that he is putting himself at a disadvantage, show that you CARE about him. A simple, hey man your practice as a doctor will be cut short if you have to focus on your own preventable health problems as opposed to your own patients. Or try explaining how much you care about your friend and you want to see him live a long, healthy life as a doctor....not one that is cut short by heart disease.
 
I saw mostly fit people on the interview trail, and I think it's partially self-selection. People who are motivated to do well in school and get involved in a lot of extracurriculars are probably more likely to be motivated to go to the gym and eat right. Not always, of course, and that's not at all to say that the opposite is true and that overweight people aren't motivated. I think pre-meds also tend to be perfectionists both academically and in terms of physical appearance. Still, I can't see an adcom going around and saying, "Well this person is way too fat to make a good doctor." It may or may not play into the subconscious mind of the interviewer.

OP, while your advice may have been legitimate for a number of reasons, do you really think this guy didn't know he was overweight? What did you expect, that he would say, "OMG flatearth22, thank you so much for telling me! I just had no idea my weight was a problem! I'll start training for a marathon and eating salads every day right away!"

I agree with this post. Most fat people are very aware that they would be better off losing weight.
It could be held against him, sure, but we all have things that could be held against us depending on the situation (who knows, at some school the inteviewer might be fat too and sympathize with him :) ). I've met fat residents and attendings.
I've also met plenty of residents and attendings who were unhealthy or taking risks in other ways (smoking, too much alcohol, promiscuity, riding motorcycles, you name it). Doctors are human after all.
If you really want to be helpful to a fat person, invite them to go on a walk with you or something, and encourage them when you do see them trying to make good changes in their life. Almost nobody responds well to just being told "Hey, you need to lose weight". It's easy for you to say that they should lose weight, but if you've never been in the situation of having to try to lose 100+ lbs then you probably don't appreciate what kind of struggle that is. Exercising can be quite painful when you're morbidly obese and out of shape. Radically changing your diet is not easy if eating that way is the only way you've ever known.
 
You need to have a heart to heart with him. If he's one of your best friends, I'd be there helping him lose weight this summer.
Good god, no. Like someone else also mentioned earlier, most fat people have already know they're fat, and bringing up the issue will only lead to a severely strained relationship.
 
Maybe your friend is comfortable with his body image and doesn't feel the need to change himself physically. I mean there's plenty of ppl who are fat that don't want to lose weight and could care less about it.
 
I'm sorry, is it taboo in the pre-med forum to say that URMs are given some leniency in admissions? Adcoms realize there are mitigating circumstances for grades, MCAT, ECs, etc. It's not a stretch to include weight in things that are affected by socioeconomic status.

I don't think it's provocative to say that being overweight won't affect a URM's chance of admissions as much as other applicants.
 
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I was pretty heavy during interviews (220-230, six foot one) and I wouldn't doubt that it had an effect on me. I'm about to start a year off and one of my goals for the year is to slim down from 200 to about 180-190 or at least convert some of my weight to lean muscle by the time I start interviews.

That's not how the body works.
 
Fat people know they're fat, there's really no need to give them helpful advice on losing weight.
I disagree.

Fat people know they are fat. But many are definitely at a loss as to how to lose weight properly. Fad diets after fad diets will eventually lead to, statistically speaking, more weight gain and many people do not know this. They may know the consequences of being overweight or obese (lowered life expectency, higher risks of chronic diseases, etc.) but do not know what to do to prevent it. Saying "just eat more vegetables and exercise" is not helpful.

Not know what to do to lose weight, how to continue the weight loss, and what to expect through the journey is probably at least partially accounting for the stats we see about how the majority of dieters/first time exercisers stop within 6 months (cannot find source atm). And the vast majority of dieters weigh more 6 months after their diet than when they first started [PDF].
 
I disagree.

Fat people know they are fat. But many are definitely at a loss as to how to lose weight properly. Fad diets after fad diets will eventually lead to, statistically speaking, more weight gain and many people do not know this. They may know the consequences of being overweight or obese (lowered life expectency, higher risks of chronic diseases, etc.) but do not know what to do to prevent it. Saying "just eat more vegetables and exercise" is not helpful.

Not know what to do to lose weight, how to continue the weight loss, and what to expect through the journey is probably at least partially accounting for the stats we see about how the majority of dieters/first time exercisers stop within 6 months (cannot find source atm). And the vast majority of dieters weigh more 6 months after their diet than when they first started [PDF].

Maybe this is true for people in certain communities, such as inner-city areas where there's nowhere to get food but McDonald's and convenience stores (food deserts), but I imagine that a pre-med college student is well aware of how to lose weight properly, or at least knows of resources to help figure it out. Some well-meaning but clueless friend coming up to an overweight person saying, "Man, you really could stand to start being healthier--here's a bunch of tips on how to get active and start eating right," is not actually helpful to someone who knows they are overweight.
 
That's a little idiotic to say mate because I've seen fit and obese people URM or not. There was no reason to bring race into this.

We have all seen people of all shapes, sizes, and colors. His statement is not idiotic if it's based on an accurate observation. That's all he was stating, an observation.
 
Maybe this is true for people in certain communities, such as inner-city areas where there's nowhere to get food but McDonald's and convenience stores (food deserts), but I imagine that a pre-med college student is well aware of how to lose weight properly, or at least knows of resources to help figure it out. Some well-meaning but clueless friend coming up to an overweight person saying, "Man, you really could stand to start being healthier--here's a bunch of tips on how to get active and start eating right," is not actually helpful to someone who knows they are overweight.
I am not sure what populations the studies referenced, but I would assume that we can generalize to suburban and rural populations too. You can gain weight without McDonalds, restaurants, and refried foods. My dad weighed 230 pounds (5'9") without eating fast foods. His problem was continuing the tradition of eating lots of (homemade, so 200 calorie slice) bread with each meal and leading a very sedentary exercise. Of course, he is not premed. Facts: 34% of all adults (20+) are obese and another 34% are overweight but not obese. This adds up to 68% of US adults are either overweight or obese. And while 80% of the US live in urban areas, I doubt that the majority are in the inner-city poverty areas.

There really isn't that much readily available information on proper diet and exercise, I don't see how being premed would help students be more aware of what to do. The only reason I know much about exercise and diet is because my previous major (Nursing) placed a high emphasis on diet, and my current major (Exercise Physiology) places a huge emphasis on exercise. My premed/biology or premed/chemistry friends are all still pretty oblivious of proper eating and exercise, beyond the typical eat less and exercise more. They still go on fad diets, and have to actively seek out information on healthy living. We're not born with knowing what to eat and when.

I agree that giving a bunch of tips to someone overweight is not helpful, whether they accept that they are overweight or not. It makes you look self righteous and shuts all communication. But that doesn't mean that if someone knows they are overweight they will automatically find the right ways to lose weight. That they will know that losing 1-2lbs/week is the healthy way to get fit without losing water or muscle mass. And that's my point. DrZaiusDrZaius commented that there's no need to give advice to someone who knows they are overweight, and that is not true. Once they they accept they are overweight, realize the long-term and short-term consequences of being overweight, and are actively trying to lose weight, they need as much advice as they can get. And if they are not trying to lose weight and are ignoring the consequences, I believe the obvious thing to do is to nudge them in that direction. And, of course, the person giving the tips needs to know their stuff. Giving advice to try this or this fad diet is not helpful.

Dang, sorry for that huge reply. Weight loss and exercise are a passionate topic for me, so I tend to put my all into such discussions. :p
 
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If his MCAT is higher than his BMI, he'll be ok. ;)

Yes, round-earth you have to understand this.

His 35 will carry his weight, even if he can't. You see medical school admissions is about MCAT scores. Adcoms could care less if you were too fat to make it up to the third floor of the hospital. That's what they have elevators for. Too fat to get out of bed for class? Well, just watch the lectures in bed.

You see, when adcoms look at applications they don't look at the person. No one cares about the person behind the numbers, they care about the numbers behind that number in their applicant pool. If you increase their MCAT average, you belong in that school. The only issue is whether your application will get shuffled to the "in" pile or the "out" pile. This is an arbitrary process, kind of like throwing darts and hitting the target on the wall. All darts are created equal (high grade manufacturing = high scores) but only some darts will arbitrarily hit the target (there's no rhyme or reason once the darts are made whether they will hit or not).

So let him eat all the chocolate cake (50 cent "like a fat kid love cake"), brownies, and hamburgers he wants. With that MCAT score HE DESERVES IT. Heck his BMI could learn a lesson or two from his MCAT score. Adcoms will agree with my sentiment.

Oh, and I generally don't care about the weight of my drinking buddies. The weight I'm concerned with is the petite ness of the cute girl in the room.
 
You're not taking a lot of things into consideration; custom scrub sizes costs money, they will probably have to order more food for noon talks, and finding a bigger venue for the class picture will certainly be a pain.

Yes, round-earth you have to understand this.

His 35 will carry his weight, even if he can't. You see medical school admissions is about MCAT scores. Adcoms could care less if you were too fat to make it up to the third floor of the hospital. That's what they have elevators for. Too fat to get out of bed for class? Well, just watch the lectures in bed.

You see, when adcoms look at applications they don't look at the person. No one cares about the person behind the numbers, they care about the numbers behind that number in their applicant pool. If you increase their MCAT average, you belong in that school. The only issue is whether your application will get shuffled to the "in" pile or the "out" pile. This is an arbitrary process, kind of like throwing darts and hitting the target on the wall. All darts are created equal (high grade manufacturing = high scores) but only some darts will arbitrarily hit the target (there's no rhyme or reason once the darts are made whether they will hit or not).

So let him eat all the chocolate cake (50 cent "like a fat kid love cake"), brownies, and hamburgers he wants. With that MCAT score HE DESERVES IT. Heck his BMI could learn a lesson or two from his MCAT score. Adcoms will agree with my sentiment.

Oh, and I generally don't care about the weight of my drinking buddies. The weight I'm concerned with is the petite ness of the cute girl in the room.
 
Good god, no. Like someone else also mentioned earlier, most fat people have already know they're fat, and bringing up the issue will only lead to a severely strained relationship.

I actually disagree with this to a certain extent. One of my closest friends is rather large, and although she "knows" she is large logically, in her head, she is still often shocked when she sees pictures of herself or really looks at herself in the mirror. On a day to day basis, she still thinks she looks "good" (her words, not mine) and is really surprised when she occasionally gets a shock of reality. Even though she knows her weight is high, she doesn't understand that she looks fat all the time - only when it surprises her, and then it goes away after a couple days.
 
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