Was I wrong to tell my fat premed friend to lose weight? (srs)

[MedPR]

Whether or not you were nice about how you said it, the message is legitimate and definitely a good suggestion.

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[Knocked Up]

You're not taking a lot of things into consideration; custom scrub sizes costs money, they will probably have to order more food for noon talks, and finding a bigger venue for the class picture will certainly be a pain.

Yes, but that is why there are application fees when you apply to medical school. The skinny kids with low MCATs aren't getting in anyway so they fund all of the above for the fat kid with the fat scores. It all evens out in the end.

 

[Tatiana3325]

I recently jumped into similar hot water for basically acknowledging that a friend of mine is overweight. I'd say it's a mistake to do and I wouldn't do it again.

It's like telling a smoker to quit. Not worth the time and effort.

 

[sotto voce]

I recently jumped into similar hot water for basically acknowledging that a friend of mine is overweight. I'd say it's a mistake to do and I wouldn't do it again.

It's like telling a smoker to quit. Not worth the time and effort.

A friend of the family is a general surgeon and a chain smoker. I know some hospitals have non-tobacco policies but apparently our small community hospital is not one of those. He seems to do just fine (nice house, collection of over 100 VW Beetles) but I wish he would quit. He's a nice guy.

 

[urbanclassic]

I'm really overweight/obese, a URM and I'm going to med school next year. I got into to some decent state schools and some decent private med schools. I was wasn't always overweight, I played basketball in high school and was in good shape, but I battled depression and anxiety after high school, ate whenever I felt lonely or stressed and plus I was put on an anti-depressant that made me crave food even more, so I packed on the pounds... I'm trying to lose weight now, and have lost about 20 pounds, but I still have a ways to go...
It's good advice to tell your friend to lose weight, I mean as long as it done in a nice way I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[sc4s2cg]

I'm really overweight/obese, a URM and I'm going to med school next year. I got into to some decent state schools and some decent private med schools. I was wasn't always overweight, I played basketball in high school and was in good shape, but I battled depression and anxiety after high school, ate whenever I felt lonely or stressed and plus I was put on an anti-depressant that made me crave food even more, so I packed on the pounds... I'm trying to lose weight now, and have lost about 20 pounds, but I still have a ways to go...
It's good advice to tell your friend to lose weight, I mean as long as it done in a nice way I don't see anything wrong with that.

Congrats on the 20 pound weight loss!

 

[gettheleadout]

You see, when adcoms look at applications they don't look at the person. No one cares about the person behind the numbers, they care about the numbers behind that number in their applicant pool. If you increase their MCAT average, you belong in that school. The only issue is whether your application will get shuffled to the "in" pile or the "out" pile. This is an arbitrary process, kind of like throwing darts and hitting the target on the wall. All darts are created equal (high grade manufacturing = high scores) but only some darts will arbitrarily hit the target (there's no rhyme or reason once the darts are made whether they will hit or not).

I sincerely hope you don't believe this stuff, but you repeat it all the time...

 

[SunsFun]

From this story a bigger red flag is not his weight per se but his seemingly butthurt reaction. Even if he did get offended, if you are good friends he could have manned up to you and spoke his mind instead of avoiding your calls and messages like a little teenage girl.

 

[ljpm8224]

all the doctors I work with..well..none of them really tolerate overweight people or people who smoke/drink/do drugs.

huh. My buddies who are MDs all drink like fishes

OP- if he's truly pushing 3-hundo there's not really all that much he can do about it in short order before interviews come up, so all you really did was add to his neurosis and simultaneously make him feel sh*tty while coming off as a jerky friend. (dieting: 4 months x 2lbs off per month --> 8lbs lighter off a 300lb dude? maybe down a belt notch or two, but otherwise not really gonna notice).

This is ridiculous, but if weight is TRULY a factor that he is concerned about for interviews, he could pull a smoke and mirrors job: invest heavy coin in an excellently cut, truly impeccably tailored suit (30lbs off), stand in for a slimming spray tan, get lifts in his shoes and wear a man spanx undershirt and boxers. Boom, I just made your buddy lose 50lbs. But yeah... all that is pointless and unnecessary if he has confidence in the interview, is genuine, likeable and has interesting stuff to say to back up his scores and gpa.

Further, I agree with poster above who mentioned you also probably didn't tell him anything he didn't already know.

 

[Knocked Up]

I sincerely hope you don't believe this stuff, but you repeat it all the time...

sorry I'll try to keep my opinions to myself from now on...

 

[CaliGirl14]

huh. My buddies who are MDs all drink like fishes

OP- if he's truly pushing 3-hundo there's not really all that much he can do about it in short order before interviews come up, so all you really did was add to his neurosis, make him feel sh*tty while coming off as a jerky friend.

Further, I agree with poster above who mentioned you also probably didn't tell him anything he didn't already know.

I mean like heavy-end-up-in-the-ER-drinkers.

 

[JCTWP46]

right? I'm relying on my good looks to pull me through this one.

Have you ever wondered if there was more to life, other than being really, really, ridiculously good looking?

 

[drizzt3117]

I dunno, between the ng tube diet and some lipo I'm sure you could clean things up a lot before august. Some clenbuterol probably wouldnt hurt.

huh. My buddies who are MDs all drink like fishes

OP- if he's truly pushing 3-hundo there's not really all that much he can do about it in short order before interviews come up, so all you really did was add to his neurosis and simultaneously make him feel sh*tty while coming off as a jerky friend. (dieting: 4 months x 2lbs off per month --> 8lbs lighter off a 300lb dude? maybe down a belt notch or two, but otherwise not really gonna notice).

This is ridiculous, but if weight is TRULY a factor that he is concerned about for interviews, he could pull a smoke and mirrors job: invest heavy coin in an excellently cut, truly impeccably tailored suit (30lbs off), stand in for a slimming spray tan, get lifts in his shoes and wear a man spanx undershirt and boxers. Boom, I just made your buddy lose 50lbs. But yeah... all that is pointless and unnecessary if he has confidence in the interview, is genuine, likeable and has interesting stuff to say to back up his scores and gpa.

Further, I agree with poster above who mentioned you also probably didn't tell him anything he didn't already know.

 

[gettheleadout]

sorry I'll try to keep my opinions to myself from now on...

There's nothing wrong with sharing opinions, but data show that the MCAT isn't the singular defining predictor of success that you think it is. Yes, it's an important test, but you reduce every single issue of discussion to an MCAT issue. Weight and bias against the obese is irrelevant because the MCAT is more important? Really? It's just an oversimplification to disregard every possible concern and defer to MCAT performance.

 

[tantacles]

I actually disagree with this to a certain extent. One of my closest friends is rather large, and although she "knows" she is large logically, in her head, she is still often shocked when she sees pictures of herself or really looks at herself in the mirror. On a day to day basis, she still thinks she looks "good" (her words, not mine) and is really surprised when she occasionally gets a shock of reality. Even though she knows her weight is high, she doesn't understand that she looks fat all the time - only when it surprises her, and then it goes away after a couple days.

Time for a surprise treadmill gift!

 

[sotto voce]

I dunno, between the ng tube diet and some lipo I'm sure you could clean things up a lot before august. Some clenbuterol probably wouldnt hurt.

One thing that often works surprisingly well is free weights. I know it's hard to get into that kind of heavy exercise, but you can really blast through the calories while building muscle. If he can add dynamic cardio like hiking (where he's having fun and not miserable on a treadmill), even better. The other things I would recommend are a regular sleep schedule and a good diet. These are linked, i.e., he sleeps from 10pm - 6am and then hits the gym, eats a good breakfast at 7:30am, and so on. By the fall (interviews in Oct/Nov, right?) he could lose like 30 lbs (1.5 lbs/wk).

And maybe a better approach would be to ask him, "Hey, did you read that article in Men's Health..." or "The Mayo Clinic website has some awesome recipes..." or something like that. Showing, not telling, maybe.

 

[CaliGirl14]

Have you ever wondered if there was more to life, other than being really, really, ridiculously good looking?

Have you ever heard of a joke...

 

[JCTWP46]

Have you ever heard of a joke...

I guess you've never seen the movie...

 

[EBTrailRunner]

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread, but I want to point out that limiting weight loss to 2 lbs per week is only a general recommendation. Your rate of weight loss should be relative to your body size. A 5'9", 300-400 lb male should be able to safely lose 3-4 lbs of fat per week.

 

[kasho11]

Please don't let any miscers get into this thread, it's been pretty good so far.

 

[Intraleukin-6]

Please don't let any miscers get into this thread, it's been pretty good so far.

On second thought, now that he's mastered his grades, send him to the Misc.

 

[Tatiana3325]

Phase I of the south beach diet + copious amounts of caffeine is the way to go. Granted, I've never had more than 10 lbs to lose at a time, but it's my go to plan when my weight has crept up.

It's also good to combine with toning exercises when trying to look more toned. Results come way faster.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Please don't let any miscers get into this thread, it's been pretty good so far.

I think there should be a government sponsored program that forces fat people to misc 1 hour a day. It would probably help them.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think there should be a government sponsored program that forces fat people to misc 1 hour a day. It would probably help them.

How about just banning people with BMI > 45 from buying food?

I'm being facetious, but something needs to be done about obesity.

 

[UrshumMurshum]

4-5 months he could legitimately lose like 20 pounds, but if he's pushing 300 pounds like you say he is, then it's not going to make much difference.

But I'm also curious if Adcoms are starting to consider weight level of applicants. Given it's already becoming difficult to separate quality students at schools (lots of high stats) it seems this could be a viable metric.

Especially since America's biggest health problem is essentially obesity and obesity related illness. I can see an argument being put forth that doctors should emulate the weight they want their patients to have.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I'm pretty sure this is how the convo went:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znBPVsS_WvQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[unrealplayer]

I don't think your suggestion was harsh. Interviewers are only human and will most likely have a positive outlook on an interviewee who looks professional, fit, and attractive. At my interviews, there were hardly any overweight people. If I was a patient and saw an extremely overweight physician I would think "How can you care for me when you can't even take care of yourself?"

 

[ljpm8224]

I can see an argument being put forth that doctors should emulate the weight they want their patients to have.

first of all, the patients would be the ones emulating, not the doctors.

secondly, there's a valid argument that some bariatric patients may appreciate, listen to and be more highly compliant when working with a larger doctor who'd maybe been there and could empathize with struggling with his or her weight instead of twiggy dweeb.

 

[flodhi1]

4-5 months he could legitimately lose like 20 pounds, but if he's pushing 300 pounds like you say he is, then it's not going to make much difference.

But I'm also curious if Adcoms are starting to consider weight level of applicants. Given it's already becoming difficult to separate quality students at schools (lots of high stats) it seems this could be a viable metric.

Especially since America's biggest health problem is essentially obesity and obesity related illness. I can see an argument being put forth that doctors should emulate the weight they want their patients to have.

Undortunately, appearance matters during interviews.

 

[235788]

I'm pretty sure this is how the convo went:

[YOUTUBE]znBPVsS_WvQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Geekchick921]

I'm sure you approached your friend with all the tact, respect and consideration you have made so evident in your posting history on SDN.

So no wonder he's pissed at you.

 

[startswithb]

first of all, the patients would be the ones emulating, not the doctors.

secondly, there's a valid argument that some bariatric patients may appreciate, listen to and be more highly compliant when working with a larger doctor who'd maybe been there and could empathize with struggling with his or her weight instead of twiggy dweeb.

Interestingly, there was a recent study published showing that overweight doctors were less likely to counsel their patients on weight. Yikes.

 

[flodhi1]

Interestingly, there was a recent study published showing that overweight doctors were less likely to counsel their patients on weight. Yikes.

Even if they did who would take them seriously?

 

[hiyaman]

4-5 months he could legitimately lose like 20 pounds, but if he's pushing 300 pounds like you say he is, then it's not going to make much difference.

But I'm also curious if Adcoms are starting to consider weight level of applicants. Given it's already becoming difficult to separate quality students at schools (lots of high stats) it seems this could be a viable metric.

Especially since America's biggest health problem is essentially obesity and obesity related illness. I can see an argument being put forth that doctors should emulate the weight they want their patients to have.

So physicians now have to become models of perfect health and what the mass media pictures as an ideal body image? Give me a break.

I don't see how the way a person looks should creep into a decision on whether or not they would make good physicians.

 

[Aerus]

So physicians now have to become models of perfect health and what the mass media pictures as an ideal body image? Give me a break.

I don't see how the way a person looks should creep into a decision on whether or not they would make good physicians.

It isn't worrying about "mass media ideal body image"; it's a health concern now. The man has a 44 BMI. That is just insane. There is no way he can handle the stress of being a doctor with such an unhealthy lifestyle. Whether it's just disgusting pigging habits or coping mechanisms, it's better to address them before he considers a stress-inducing career in medicine, where his risk of getting a heart attack are just so high.

OP: You were right to give that advice. You're a good friend who cares. Plus, there is truth in your reasoning. Interviewers do, whether knowingly or subconsciously, judge based on how healthy, professional, and attractive a person looks. It wouldn't be a bad idea to devote these next couple months becoming more healthy.

Wait until he cools down and try again, if you still want him to be healthy. If he ignores you that time too, then he has condemned himself to an unhealthy, less happy life.

 

[deleted393595]

Well... fat is fat

 

[ljpm8224]

It isn't worrying about "mass media ideal body image"; it's a health concern now. The man has a 44 BMI. That is just insane. There is no way he can handle the stress of being a doctor with such an unhealthy lifestyle. Whether it's just disgusting pigging habits or coping mechanisms, it's better to address them before he considers a stress-inducing career in medicine, where his risk of getting a heart attack are just so high.

^^ oh, please. That's for the dude himself, adcoms, residency matches etc to decide if this guy can handle the stress of being a doctor, not a bunch of wanker pontificating premeds.

- would rather have a fat slob doc who was wicked smaht and knew what he was talking about in order to heal or save my *ss than some health nut vanity show model physical specimen quack (dr ozzzzzz) who's rushing through rounds distracted cuz he's trying to make his racketball court reservation.

shirtless surfer dudes are for looking hawt, docs generally just need to be smart and work hard. I don't need a decathalete/ironman/bodybuilder radiologist or oncologist, I just need them to know what the f they are doing (bonus: hardworking, nice to pts but we all know that's negligible these days ha ha). i could give a rats *ss if they have a muffin top or eat five cheeseburgers after their shift.

- besides, plenty of perfectly slim & healthy looking medical professionals handle stress with unhealthy vices or spend their private lives doing stupid, idiotic and dangerous things too, it's just less visible to the naked eye of judgmental a-holes.

 

[Ashley1989]

If what you said to your friend was as insensitive as your topic title, then yes, it was probably very hurtful and tactless.

I do see your reasoning behind wanting to talk to him, but really at this point the man has probably already thought about everything and anything you can tell him and has not yet decided to change. It would have been so much better to discuss it very lightly and then ask your friend if they wanted to start going for walks and reviewing/quizzing each other for class. He's obviously really smart, and probably doesn't need you pointing out whatever kind of negative views (justified or unjustified) he might be facing because of his weight. It was probably really hurtful and embarrassing for him, and at this point I wouldn't be surprised if he just avoided you all together from now on.

With that being said, I don't think you made the WRONG choice by talking to him about it, you just could have probably addressed it a little more delicately instead of using words like "fat" and "obese". It's a very disastrous situation if you say even one little thing wrong, and the guy probably feels terrible. Sure, a good friend should show concern, but realize when to invest some serious thought into what you're going to say and if not just bite your tongue.

 

[Intraleukin-6]

Sugar is definitely addictive, and some people's bodies are more efficient at storing fat than others. I'd say being overweight is understandible, but obesity typically signifies a lack of care for oneself.

(Coming from a fairly fit Exercise Science major)

 

[theseeker4]

i'm sure you approached your friend with all the tact, respect and consideration you have made so evident in your posting history on sdn.

So no wonder he's pissed at you.

lol, +1

 

[KnuxNole]

lol why did you put a (srs) in the topic title? I've never seen that before

But on topic, it's NOT mandatory to be fit to be in med school, but it's ok to give suggestions. If he doesn't want to ever lose weight, that's ok. But, maybe giving him the idea might make him think about things and he might try it out. So, I don't think it was wrong. If you tried to force him, tell him that he is a bad person if he doesn't do it, or tell him it's mandatory for all people to be 100% fit, then that's kinda weird.

 

[KnuxNole]

Interestingly, there was a recent study published showing that overweight doctors were less likely to counsel their patients on weight. Yikes.

I think they can still counsel them on weight. Except they just don't practice what they preach lol Do people really think people are ONLY allowed to give advice if they themselves used it? I've seen people give advice on how to get laid even though they are virgins themselves.

I don't see how the way a person looks should creep into a decision on whether or not they would make good physicians

This is true in a way. It's GOOD to emphasize healthy living, but I can name 10-20 residents/doctors who are
A) Overweight
B) Chain smoking like crazy
C) Hates healthy foods

Same with med students too. Not all my classmates are "healthy" Since, stress of school has some affect on people. I've heard countless "Oh man, I used to go to the gym...but not anymore!" and "Ever since I started school I couldn't stop eating!"

 

[weezynation]

Isn't this all based upon appearance though? Someone could smoke, drink, eat fast food all the time, and have a ridiculously high metabolism so they're skinny. No one cares about their habits because aesthetically, they look fine. I would be willing to say the same about someone who may be overweight/borderline obese if they carry their weight in a way that does not look like he/she is obese. The fact that OP's friend carries his weight in a way that makes him look obese does not help his situation.

 

[drizzt3117]

Isn't this all based upon appearance though? Someone could smoke, drink, eat fast food all the time, and have a ridiculously high metabolism so they're skinny. No one cares about their habits because aesthetically, they look fine. I would be willing to say the same about someone who may be overweight/borderline obese if they carry their weight in a way that does not look like he/she is obese. The fact that OP's friend carries his weight in a way that makes him look obese does not help his situation.

It has nothing to do with how he carries his weight. If you're 5'9 and >300 lb, you're obese. (inb4 someone mentions Ronnie coleman)

 

[weezynation]

It has nothing to do with how he carries his weight. If you're 5'9 and >300 lb, you're obese. (inb4 someone mentions Ronnie coleman)

I fully agree that's obese, but my point is...say if someone is 5'9 and 275 yet carry their weight well and do not look as if they weigh 275, I'd be willing to bet there wouldnt be any discrimination towards this person. Even though it is a double standard, this is probably only true for males. And I am not referring to someone who is a body-builder.

 

[BA11]

The bias against overweight people in medicine defiitely seems pretty obvious to me. Of all the med schools I've visited and all the fellow matriculants that I've met, I honestly can't remember a single one I would consider obese. Taht isnt to say that everyone looked like a triathlete, but I don't recall anybody's weight really standing out.

So no, you werent wrong to mention it in terms of validity as it is going to likely be an issue for him. Medical schools probably feel that overweight doctors are frowned upon by the public. That being said, perhaps there was a better way to do it.

 

[Masha34]

He's probably struggled with his weight for most, if not all of his life. He's probably been made fun of for it throughout that time. It is a difficult topic for us fatties to talk about, and depending on how you approached it, he may have thought you were attacking him.

So true, but a real friend will tell you the truth, even when it's hard to hear.

 

[Tatiana3325]

Isn't this all based upon appearance though? Someone could smoke, drink, eat fast food all the time, and have a ridiculously high metabolism so they're skinny. No one cares about their habits because aesthetically, they look fine. I would be willing to say the same about someone who may be overweight/borderline obese if they carry their weight in a way that does not look like he/she is obese. The fact that OP's friend carries his weight in a way that makes him look obese does not help his situation.

I didn't realize it was possible to be obese and still look good. Or even fine for that matter..... .... Unless someone likes that sort of thing. It's my understanding that there is lingerie in size 4X or something like that.

 

[drizzt3117]

I fully agree that's obese, but my point is...say if someone is 5'9 and 275 yet carry their weight well and do not look as if they weigh 275, I'd be willing to bet there wouldnt be any discrimination towards this person. Even though it is a double standard, this is probably only true for males. And I am not referring to someone who is a body-builder.

Please show me someone who's BMI 42, not a bodybuilder/athlete but carries their weight well. Keep in mind the person in question is more like BMI 50.

 

[Geekchick921]

You guys need to remember you're basing your image of this person on flatearth's estimation. It's very likely that he is way off base or exaggerating.