Washington University in St. Louis-Only care about stats?

gublagu3

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From many threads I have read, it seems that Wash U in St. Louis has a reputation for being a very number heavy school. On some of the threads, people have stated that Wash U only cares about high mcat scores. How much truth is there to this? And, does anyone have any evidence other than their high MCAT average? Thanks in advance!
 

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From many threads I have read, it seems that Wash U in St. Louis has a reputation for being a very number heavy school. On some of the threads, people have stated that Wash U only cares about high mcat scores. How much truth is there to this? And, does anyone have any evidence other than their high MCAT average? Thanks in advance!
They emphasize numbers more than some peer schools, such as UCSF, and similarly to others, such as Penn. Very similar with their undergrad, more emphasis on SATs than similarly ranked schools. I don't know what better evidence of emphasis on numbers you can ask for aside from having higher numbers!

I did ask an adcom member on a panel once what was leading to such high numbers, and she said that they had found it was the best predictor of success. I doubt they meant success as in people graduating, more like dominating steps and being candidates for the most selective specialties and residencies. So there is the logic at least!

They don't care only about scores however. If you look in the MSAR you'll see they still have extremely high percentages of accepted students with research, volunteerism, etc.
 
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mr.mkitty

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I've heard this as well! Hence one of the reasons I did apply.
 

mr.mkitty

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THAT HUMBLE BRAG THO
Lol I don't know if I'd say I was purposely bragging with my statement. Being an incomplete applicant is not something Id intend to brag about.
 

mr.mkitty

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But I apologize and retract my statement. I shall remain humble. For... Pride cometh before the fall!
 

efle

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The biggest reason not to apply to WashU or UChicago is precisely this – they are the most preeminent stat whores in the country. I've no opinion on whether this is good or bad, but they are inclined to favor those with ridiculous LizzyMs
Sinai must be an even bigger stat ***** than Chicago to rival its numbers as it does, no? And Penn has them both beat
 
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But I apologize and retract my statement. I shall remain humble. For... Pride cometh before the fall!
Too late, you jinxed yourself

Sinai must be an even bigger stat ***** than Chicago to rival its numbers as it does, no? And Penn has them both beat
Penn and Chicago weren't statwhores until like 5 years ago. WashU's average was 38 when Harvard's was still 30 like 20 years ago. They have a long tradition of selecting for savants who specialize in a single skill: scoring well on the MCAT.
 

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The 10th percentile MCAT for WASHU has been a 34 for several years. The median Bio MCAT score for several years has been a 14. Their 10th percentile GPA is the 3rd highest in the country. Those are the kind of standards you are dealing with.

Everything is all relative. There are many many applicants who apply to a school like WASHU with great stats. The vast majority don't get accepted. The much more accurate thing to say is those that don't have top stats might be at more of a disadvantage than at other top 20 schools, but again all is relative.
 

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Does Wash U care about GPA just as much as MCAT? If not, I may throw them an app just to give it a shot.
 

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From many threads I have read, it seems that Wash U in St. Louis has a reputation for being a very number heavy school. On some of the threads, people have stated that Wash U only cares about high mcat scores. How much truth is there to this? And, does anyone have any evidence other than their high MCAT average? Thanks in advance!
Tru
 

GrapesofRath

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Does Wash U care about GPA just as much as MCAT? If not, I may throw them an app just to give it a shot.
Look at the median stats and 10/90th percentile stats. The 10th percentile MCAT is a 34. The Median is a 38. Even being at 36 still puts you below average(although you can certainly be competitive with that score). 10th percentile GPA is 3.68. Median is a 3.9. Even being at a 3.75-3.8 puts you in below average territory there(although you can certainly be competitive with those grades). Generally speaking there is a slight discordance between a 3.68 and a 34; ie most schools with 3.68 GPA medians have lower MCAT medians than 34 and most schools with 34 MCAT medians have higher GPA medians than 3.68. Have at that as you will. The median MD matriculant has a 3.69 GPA and a 31-32 on the MCAT.

That's how you gotta decide here; all these I heard this, I heard that type of stuff isn't really important
 

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But I apologize and retract my statement. I shall remain humble. For... Pride cometh before the fall!
Triumph in your glorious numbers and let everyone know about it. You earned it.
 

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Look at the median stats and 10/90th percentile stats. The 10th percentile MCAT is a 34. The Median is a 38. Even being at 36 still puts you below average(although you can certainly be competitive with that score). 10th percentile GPA is 3.68. Median is a 3.9. Even being at a 3.75-3.8 puts you in below average territory there(although you can certainly be competitive with those grades). Generally speaking there is a slight discordance between a 3.68 and a 34; ie most schools with 3.68 GPA medians have lower MCAT medians than 34 and most schools with 34 MCAT medians have higher GPA medians than 3.68. Have at that as you will. The median MD matriculant has a 3.69 GPA and a 31-32 on the MCAT.

That's how you gotta decide here; all these I heard this, I heard that type of stuff isn't really important
Alright. With a cGPA of 3.55 I don't think I should be applying here then :p
 
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I had a good friend of mine apply broadly and smartly with a 39. His EC's were very lacking though. The only school he gained acceptance to was Wash U. Very impressive though! He was quite brilliant, 39 mcat wow! I have no doubt he'll be a great physician in a top specialty.

It seems like a lot of schools rejected him because his numbers were too high for them and the top schools rejected him because of his lack of EC's.
 
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LuluLovesMe

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I've poked at Wash U myself but I sort of like how they do it. There's zero confusion. If you don't have the stats you do not have to waste any time wondering about whether to apply.
Yeah I appreciate how they do things. Are there any schools that are like Wash U but with lower stats overall? Virginia tech seems to have dischordant MCAT and GPAs for matriculants.
 
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gublagu3

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I've poked at Wash U myself but I sort of like how they do it. There's zero confusion. If you don't have the stats you do not have to waste any time wondering about whether to apply.
In that respect, what stats do you think should be good enough to apply?
 

md-2020

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Yeah I appreciate how they do things. Are there any schools that are like Wash U but with lower stats overall? Virginia tech seems to have dischordant MCAT and GPAs for matriculants.
Hofstra seems to be going that direction, focusing especially on MCAT
 
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In that respect, what stats do you think should be good enough to apply?
I'm no expert, but I wouldn't advise anyone to apply with anything less than a 3.75/36, and if someone is at that level there are great choices other than Wash U. I wouldn't be excited about my chances with anything less than a 3.85/38.
 

md-2020

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What the hell is run of the mill pedigree?
In Hofstra's case, anything non Ivy or Ivy equivalent probably. They're focused on getting 1. High MCATs and 2. kids from top tier UGs.

Which as Nietzsche mentioned above, is to quickly rise in rep and rankings as a new school.
 
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In Hofstra's case, anything non Ivy or Ivy equivalent probably. They're focused on getting 1. High MCATs and 2. kids from top tier UGs.
I would guess they also would be OK with trendy-sounding LACs that will look good in a list of undergrad institutions of matriculants (even like an Oberlin, Macalester, Whitman, Colby, Bates, etc).
 
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md-2020

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I would guess they also would be OK with trendy-sounding LACs that will look good in a list of undergrad institutions of matriculants (even like an Oberlin, Macalester, Whitman, Colby, Bates, etc).
Yea totally forgot about those. Probably Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore esque New England elites too.

Basically a school name that Hofstra can publicize and brag about.
 
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@Nietzschelover WashU's strategy may sort out the kinks for applicants wondering whether to apply, but I shiver at the thought of what kinds of people the school is taking a dump on by taking such a strategy. Not the best way to build a medical school class. They might as well just host their own standardized test if they care about it so damn much

(And no I ain't mad about it bc my own MCAT is low or something. Far from it)
 
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GrapesofRath

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The thing about WASHU is they've been on this top MCAT focus for a while. For years their median MCAT(which has been a 38 for a while I think) and 14 median Bio MCAT was unmatched. Back when other top schools had lower MCAT medians they stood out. Now, as the applicant pools keep getting more and more insanely competitive each year the dynamic is kind of changing a little. Schools with 34-35 median MCATs not all that long ago are in the 36 even 37 range(Mt. Sinai a good ex). Hell, somebody has finally matched WASHU's median MCAT this year with Penn.

So WASHU doesn't really stand out as much anymore with their MCAT philosophy. Now days, a 38 really is around the median or one point higher than it at so many schools that WASHU isn't really that much different from everybody else and why I think that rep is kind of getting overblown in this era now somewhat. The other thing that stood out about WASHU was their 10th percentile MCAT was always absurdly high, which showed a lack of willingness to even consider lower MCAT applicants in ways other top schools might. But now WASHU's 10th percentile MCAT of 34 doesn't stand out as much. Penn's is also now a 34. Stanford, Chicago, NYU, Vandy and Mt Sinai are all at 33(and that can easily fluctuate to a 34 from year to year). So now days I don't really think WASHU's MCAT obsession stands out that much anymore; they are kind of in line with alot of other schools to some extent.

This kind of relates to that prior conversation that there is a limit that a school that doesn't have the name brand of a Harvard can do to try to become a school like Harvard. There is a limit to how much you can emphasize stats. It's just not feasible for a school to have an MCAT median of 40-41 when only a 200 or so people a year get that kind of score and the purpose it serves in having that median falls off past a point.
 
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@Nietzschelover WashU's strategy may sort out the kinks for applicants wondering whether to apply, but I shiver at the thought of what kinds of people the school is taking a dump on by taking such a strategy. Not the best way to build a medical school class. They might as well just host their own standardized test if they care about it so damn much

(And no I ain't mad about it bc my own MCAT is low or something. Far from it)
Understood. But it's nice for those who don't have super-high stats. Don't have to even worry about it. And even given what you said, I'm sure Wash U is an exceptional med school.
 
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Speaking of Hofstra, does anyone know if Quinnipiac is attempting a similar strategy, or with a stated emphasis on primary care is Quinn signaling intentions to be more of a regionally-oriented institution? I'm wondering because, like Hofstra, Quinn is located right in the middle of the Northeast/New England corridor of elite undergrad schools, and I've heard that they are putting a ton of money into their med school with the idea that the med school will be the crown jewel to elevate Quinnipiac's overall reputation (which is also interesting as at least at first blush Hofstra and Quinn strike me as very much around the same tier as undergrad institutions).
 

md-2020

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Speaking of Hofstra, does anyone know if Quinnipiac is attempting a similar strategy, or with a stated emphasis on primary care is Quinn signaling intentions to be more of a regionally-oriented institution? I'm wondering because, like Hofstra, Quinn is located right in the middle of the Northeast/New England corridor of elite undergrad schools, and I've heard that they are putting a ton of money into their med school with the idea that the med school will be the crown jewel to elevate Quinnipiac's overall reputation (which is also interesting as at least at first blush Hofstra and Quinn strike me as very much around the same tier as undergrad institutions).
Considering in their 3 years of existence Netter has increased the average MCAT from 29.5 to 32.5, I'm going to say a solid yes.

I'm guessing they and Hofstra both top out at 35-36, with a **** ton of Ivy and elite private kids.
 

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Considering in their 3 years of existence Netter has increased the average MCAT from 29.5 to 32.5, I'm going to say a solid yes.

I'm guessing they and Hofstra both top out at 35-36, with a **** ton of Ivy and elite private kids.
I come from a decently known undergrad with a high MCAT and **** GPA. Does Hofstra love me yet?
 

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ITT, people are going paranoid and wildly exaggerating the competitiveness of medical schools just by looking at the MCAT averages of top schools.
 

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Speaking of Hofstra, does anyone know if Quinnipiac is attempting a similar strategy, or with a stated emphasis on primary care is Quinn signaling intentions to be more of a regionally-oriented institution? I'm wondering because, like Hofstra, Quinn is located right in the middle of the Northeast/New England corridor of elite undergrad schools, and I've heard that they are putting a ton of money into their med school with the idea that the med school will be the crown jewel to elevate Quinnipiac's overall reputation (which is also interesting as at least at first blush Hofstra and Quinn strike me as very much around the same tier as undergrad institutions).
It is hard to imagine that any sort of med school at Quinnipiac, even if they were to have low-tier caliber matriculants, would not be the crown jewel of Quinnipiac. The rest of the school is a adjunct-run diploma mill, nowhere near Hofstra standards.

Even if they beef up their class, they do not have a hospital system anywhere close to the decades-old LIJ network that Hofstra boasts. Also the CT legislature would not be too happy with Netter trying to become an elite school because CT is a very suburban and Yale doesn't exactly help with access problems (source: insider info on legislature)
 
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It is hard to imagine that any sort of med school at Quinnipiac, even if they were to have low-tier caliber matriculants, would not be the crown jewel of Quinnipiac. The rest of the school is a adjunct-run diploma mill, nowhere near Hofstra standards.

Even if they beef up their class, they do not have a hospital system anywhere close to the decades-old LIJ network that Hofstra boasts. Also the CT legislature would not be too happy with Netter trying to become an elite school because CT is a very suburban and Yale doesn't exactly help with access problems (source: insider info on legislature)
Not sure about the rest of your comments, but undergrad Hofstra is not in some category significantly different than Quinnipiac, and my gut reaction would actually give the nod to Quinn.
 
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md-2020

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I come from a decently known undergrad with a high MCAT and **** GPA. Does Hofstra love me yet?
Say your school name in front of a mirror and see if it sounds good.

Depending on how **** your GPA is, that matters too. If it's below 3.2-3.3, I still wouldn't bother.
 

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Not sure about the rest of your comments, but undergrad Hofstra is not in some category significantly different than Quinnipiac, and my gut reaction would actually give the nod to Quinn.
lol bro trust me, there is no prestige difference (i.e., no prestige at all) between Hofstra and Quinnipiac unless you're talking about regional biases. Both are overpriced private schools. Hofstra has more research, cheaper tuition, better support structure, more scholarships, more full-time faculty, more academic choices. It is a better all around university if you really want to compare.
 
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lol bro trust me, there is no prestige difference (i.e., no prestige at all) between Hofstra and Quinnipiac unless you're talking about regional biases. Both are overpriced private schools. Hofstra has more research, cheaper tuition, better support structure, more scholarships, more full-time faculty, more academic choices. It is a better all around university if you really want to compare.
OK "bro," since I'm in the business of college advising I'll go with what you said.
 

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I'm not sure but a poor interview can still get you rejected.

one of my classmates applied there - with crazy numbers, near perfect chem E GPA, MCAT 39, research and volunteer hours like mad, leadership like mad. The most non-humble person I have ever met though...

He applied to 25 schools, got interviews to 20+, followed up 25 rejection. He applied to all top 20 and 5 in the middle ranked as back up.

Perfect applicant on paper - most unlikable person in person.
 

Cyberdyne 101

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@Nietzschelover WashU's strategy may sort out the kinks for applicants wondering whether to apply, but I shiver at the thought of what kinds of people the school is taking a dump on by taking such a strategy.
QFT
 
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I'm not sure but a poor interview can still get you rejected.

one of my classmates applied there - with crazy numbers, near perfect chem E GPA, MCAT 39, research and volunteer hours like mad, leadership like mad. The most non-humble person I have ever met though...

He applied to 25 schools, got interviews to 20+, followed up 25 rejection. He applied to all top 20 and 5 in the middle ranked as back up.

Perfect applicant on paper - most unlikable person in person.
NARCISSISM....the leading cause of psychological deaths, admissions rejections for high stats applicants, and failed relationships in general.
 
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How on earth does accepting Ivy kids boost them in ranks? Emphasis more on high GPAs and not caring where they earned them would make for climbing in the USNews algorithm, no?
Reputation before rank, sir.

Imagine this slogan -- "Hofstra, med school of choice for Ivy Leaguers"
 
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md-2020

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How on earth does accepting Ivy kids boost them in ranks? Emphasis more on high GPAs and not caring where they earned them would make for climbing in the USNews algorithm, no?
Reputation isn't 100% based on USNWR rank, plus the high MCAT avg will help on that front anyways.

What they're gunning for is probably, "last year our students came from the following undergraduate institutions: [insert every name brand school in America]"

Reader reaction: Dayum
 

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Imagine this slogan -- "Hofstra, med school of choice for Ivy Leaguers"
"Hofstra, med school of choice for Ivy Leaguers, who weren't good enough to have other choices" lmao
What they're gunning for is probably, "last year our students came from the following undergraduate institutions: [insert every name brand school in America]"
Reader reaction: Dayum
More like reader reaction: Dayum, those kids coulda done better
 
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md-2020

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@avgn It won't matter when Hofstra cracks the top 30/40, which given its resources, location, and recruiting strategy is quite likely.