WashU St.Louis Vs. University of Florida Honors Premed

[libraryismyhome]

My sis needs to choose between these two schools above. She is an extremely smart girl with full of talent and potential. I need your objective opinion on which school would be a better choice for her.

Here are the pros and cons.

University of Florida Honors Program
Pros:
(1) 100% 4 years of tuition coverage (free for 4 years)
(2) Medical professor who admires me will be her adviser
(3) 2 research scholarship programs starting her freshman year and perhaps research opportunity at Harvard
(4) has a brother who is a stellar premed, and he knows what classes to take, which professors to avoid, how to study for classes, which clubs to join, where to volunteer and who to shadow
(5) plays music for church (med schools love artistic talent)
(6) closer to home (only 2 hours away)

Cons:
(1) Too many students (21:1 faculty ratio)
(2) big bruise on her ego since her friends got into Stanford, Harvard, Brown, UPenn, Duke with lower SAT score and dimensionally less extracurricular
(3) crappy premed advisers (They ask me, I don't ask them.)
(4) other undergrad programs are not good enough, so she can only do premed
(5) may not improve her academic caliber since most of her peers are not as smart as her (I went to UF for 4 years, and I know this from my experience.)
(6) Need 37+ on MCAT to prove herself to top tiers (Is this true?)




Washington University in St. Louis
Pros:
(1) State of the art research facility at #4 med school in the country
(2) State of the art premed adviser, career adviser, major adviser
(3) better reputation to med schools (90% premed acceptance)
(4) Better programs overall, so she can think about other options
(5) better food and better housing
(6) opportunity to improver herself to the next level since other students are as smart as her
(7) better chance to top tier med schools??

Cons:
(1) no financial aid since she is an international, so $52,000 per year including room and board (but we can afford this.)
(2) hard to get good grades
(3) harder to get used to since far away from family


Though our family can afford $52,000, we may need to spend this money on medical school. And she feels currently very bitter about her friends getting into Harvard and Yale while she may need to go to UF.

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Florida. I understand you can pay the 52k a year. But its simply more realistic to go to Florida for free especially if she decided to peruse a different field or maybe a double major and do 5 years for free.
And no a 3.9/ 35 at UF = 3.9/35 at WashU~. So you don't need a 37+ to redeem yourself for going to a *gasp* state school. In reality its smarter to go to a state school if you want to go to Graduate school in any field medical or otherwise.

 

[BBender716]

I can't emphasize this enough: UFlorida. Wash U has a ton of hardcore pre-meds who will make it EXTREMELY difficult to obtain a stellar GPA, which is more important than the difference between UFlorida and Wash U to adcoms. You'll save a ton of money that you'll be able to use towards med school instead. If prestige difference between her and her friends bothers her, wave that $200,000 of savings in front of them when she gets into med school.

You will not need a 37 MCAT to compensate for going to Florida. You will possibly need a 37 to compensate for a possibly lower GPA from Wash U to shoot for top tier schools (though that's a completely different story).

In short, UFlorida is a great institution that would not hold you back from anywhere, it's cheaper, you'll get a higher GPA (almost definitely), have ample opportunities for research because of its sheer size, there's much better weather (though not a primary 'pro'), and you'll end up being much happier financially, and overally, when all is said and done.


I didn't go to UFlorida, but I had a similar decision and chose the solid, large public school and now that I've had a very successful application cycle, and now staring at $300,000 in med school debt with ZERO undergrad debt, I am feeling even better about my decision. If you have any more Qs at all, please PM me.

EDIT: one last thing about pre-med advisors, they probably do suck at UF. Mine were definitely not the best so I only visited them once. SDN became my advisor and has given me some AWESOME advice that I couldn't have been as successful without. This isn't a shameless plug for SDN, but when you gather enough neurotic, research inclined pre-meds in one place, you're bound to get oodles of good, useful (for the most part) advice. Seriously. The pre-med advising services at schools are the most overrated factor EVER

 

[AuH2OScholar]

I attend UF and I am confused why you say the other undergraduate programs are not good enough, so your sister can only do premed, which isn't its own program and therefore makes no sense (ie not everyone at UF is a premed, and there are in fact quite good programs available in other areas that are not premed).

I would suggest UF as an undergraduate institution, since people do go from UF to Hopkins and Harvard and the like, but it'll require work wherever your sister goes. Now, there is something to say about connections between faculty your sister might assit/perform research under and the institutions she wants to go to for medical school, which could be better at WashU St. Louis, especially if she wanted to go there for medical school.

I decided to go to UF for the financial reasons, and since the global meltdown it's worked out quite nicely. If your sister can get over her ego, she should probably go to UF, find some smart people, take challenging and diverse courses, and enjoy a few football games (along with the other fun premed stuff)

 

[BBender716]

I attend UF and I am confused why you say the other undergraduate programs are not good enough, so your sister can only do premed, which isn't its own program and therefore makes no sense (ie not everyone at UF is a premed, and there are in fact quite good programs available in other areas that are not premed).

I would suggest UF as an undergraduate institution, since people do go from UF to Hopkins and Harvard and the like, but it'll require work wherever your sister goes. Now, there is something to say about connections between faculty your sister might assit/perform research under and the institutions she wants to go to for medical school, which could be better at WashU St. Louis, especially if she wanted to go there for medical school.

I decided to go to UF for the financial reasons, and since the global meltdown it's worked out quite nicely. If your sister can get over her ego, she should probably go to UF, find some smart people, take challenging and diverse courses, and enjoy a few football games (along with the other fun premed stuff)

FWIW, UFlorida is considered a "public ivy" and also has a top-notch school of business.

 

[libraryismyhome]

(ie not everyone at UF is a premed, and there are in fact quite good programs available in other areas that are not premed).

Yeah, I agree with your opinion, but I cannot agree on this one. UF has the best program in Florida and one of the best in the South, but compared to other schools she got into (UVA, WashU, Cornell and Northwestern) only engineering is competitive to them.

 

[libraryismyhome]

nvmn repeated post

 

[BBender716]

Business
Warrington Florida vs. McIntire UVA and Kellog Northwestern

Science
Florida vs. WashU

But I still think that Florida is better for her.

You can do anything from anywhere. I went into my "public university" not sure if I wanted to do pre-med or business (management consulting/i-banking), which places a high emphasis on coming from Ivies. I turned down a position with Bain to apply to med school and got interviews with McKinsey, and other top management consulting firms. You can shine wherever you wind up. But it seems like she's already set on going to Wash U because the prestige factor is worth throwing all the other pros of UFlorida away.

 

[EmpathMan]

Hi OP,

I currently attend UF also and I'd like to just share my view. I also was accepted to a top school last year and had to basically choose between UF and that top school. I was really tempted to go to the school instead of UF because of the "prestige" factor. All my friends got accepted to Harvard, Yale, U. of Chicago, e.t.c as well. In the end, I chose UF despite having my ego slightly dampened heh.

I chose UF for the financial benefits and the fact that there are a lot of of extracurricular and research opportunities at UF. There really is a lot going on here so I'm sure your sister would excel in the extracurricular side of her resume in 3 years if she went to UF. She would also most likely get a better GPA at UF, though I will warn you that UF is not as "easy" as some might think. I've met quite a few people here who got 1450+ SATs and ridiculous high school GPAs who have hit the dust at UF because they underestimated the curriculum. So I don't think your sister's "academic caliber" will be lowered quite as much as you might think.

Anyways, best of luck with the decision making!

 

[libraryismyhome]

You can do anything from anywhere. I went into my "public university" not sure if I wanted to do pre-med or business (management consulting/i-banking), which places a high emphasis on coming from Ivies. I turned down a position with Bain to apply to med school and got interviews with McKinsey, and other top management consulting firms. You can shine wherever you wind up. But it seems like she's already set on going to Wash U because the prestige factor is worth throwing all the other pros of UFlorida away.

No, my sister is carefully perusing this thread right now reading you and others advise.
IMHO, I go to Florida and don't really complain. It has been decent for 4 years.

 

[JoshUNCW]

No, my sister is carefully perusing this thread right now reading you and others advise.
IMHO, I go to Florida and don't really complain. It has been decent for 4 years.

Um, outside of premed there's a lot of things for her to consider. College shouldn't solely be about getting her into medical school or not. She needs to grow and have some fun experiences as well. So I think picking an undergrad just on how it's going to affect her medical school chances is a little narrow minded.

 

[yjj8817]

Thank you for your advice! I think I will choose UF

 

[BBender716]

Thank you for your advice! I think I will choose UF

I wish you the happiest and most fulfilling of college experiences!

 

[hqt331]

i have to add that you should make sure you like the actual school that you choose. seriously, this is very important, wash u and uf are very different types of schools...

 

[futureIDdoc]

I went to WashU for undergrad. Absolutely loved it. My friends are working for the top consulting firms in the world, at Harvard law, four people i know went to yale med (in addition to just about everyone getting into med school), and in general: the people I formed bonds with are amazing, intellectual, future leaders of America.

I decided to become premed upon graduating, instead of going into business. I am doing a post-bacc at a large state school on the east coast similar to UF. When people ask me what I got on a cell bio exam and I respond that I got an 85 (setting the curve), they say "get the f*** out!". The majority of people look at me like I'm an alien. I remember this a little from elementary school - its a bit exaggerated here. When I meet people in my classes, more frequently than not they will preface themselves by saying, "I heard you're really smart. Like reallllly smart."

I was just an average person at WashU, surrounded by my peers. Had a couple girlfriends, became president of a group. Partied a lot. Met some awesome people. I was comfortable. I can only imagine how different my life had been if I had came to this state school and had the treatment I now have for all four years of my college experience. Now, I'm not saying that everyone at state schools is an unintellectual halfwit; but I am saying that you might find yourself more at home at a place surrounded by people more like you.

 

[futureIDdoc]

College shouldn't solely be about getting her into medical school or not. She needs to grow and have some fun experiences as well. So I think picking an undergrad just on how it's going to affect her medical school chances is a little narrow minded.

I think WashU would allow you to do this best.

 

[drizzt3117]

I guess it depends on your goals. If they were dead set on medicine, UF sounds like it would be a better path to your goals.

 

[phonyreal98]

Um, outside of premed there's a lot of things for her to consider. College shouldn't solely be about getting her into medical school or not. She needs to grow and have some fun experiences as well. So I think picking an undergrad just on how it's going to affect her medical school chances is a little narrow minded.

I chose the school I did both for the experiences I knew I would have as well as for financial reasons (I got into two top 20 USNWR schools and turned them down for the school I am currently at). While I am not a huge partier, I AM a huge basketball fan and I will never forget the night we won the basketball national championship my freshman year (although I'd sure like to forget this past season) or going to games and being able to sit courtside almost at will and yelling my lungs out at games. College is not just a stepping stone to med school, but an experience to be had. I think at the beginning of the thread, this got lost in the money issue; choosing an undergrad is definitely a different ballpark from choosing a med school.

 

[Ischemic]

I think WashU would allow you to do this best.

emm actually no.

 

[Girfaroo]

I go to WashU, and a couple of things: 90% acceptance rate is not true. They give us a chart saying, based on GPA and MCAT, what percentage of WashU students get into med school... 90% is not the average.

Also, I agree with previous comments about it being hard to get a great GPA in pre-med classes at WashU. Some of the intro classes killed me due to competitiveness and sheer volume of students. I did much better in upper-level courses, but that's not enough to cancel out intro classes.

That being said, WashU has a million opportunities, and it's way easier to get involved in a lot of things than at a big state school. It depends on what your sister wants, amazing grades, or more experiences.

 

[RevivedPreMed]

I go to WashU, and a couple of things: 90% acceptance rate is not true. They give us a chart saying, based on GPA and MCAT, what percentage of WashU students get into med school... 90% is not the average.

Also, I agree with previous comments about it being hard to get a great GPA in pre-med classes at WashU. Some of the intro classes killed me due to competitiveness and sheer volume of students. I did much better in upper-level courses, but that's not enough to cancel out intro classes.

That being said, WashU has a million opportunities, and it's way easier to get involved in a lot of things than at a big state school. It depends on what your sister wants, amazing grades, or more experiences.

I don't think you could honestly say this without having attended both schools. I know WashU can give great opportunities but so can UF.

I transferred to UF and within 6 months I had shadowing, a research position, and started my own organization on campus. It's VERY easy to get involved at UF so that shouldn't be a concern to not go there.

UF also has great sports teams to follow if you're into that, and warm weather so no SAD here.

 

[theWUbear]

Um, outside of premed there's a lot of things for her to consider. College shouldn't solely be about getting her into medical school or not. She needs to grow and have some fun experiences as well. So I think picking an undergrad just on how it's going to affect her medical school chances is a little narrow minded.

I think WashU would allow you to do this best.

emm actually no.

Though Ischemic provides a compelling argument, I have to disagree. WashU has some of the most lenient alcohol regulations in the US (thank you, proud sponsor Anheuser Busch), open fraternities who are not permitted to have parties that are closed to any WashU student (nobody ever can be turned d own at the door of a frat), and a club scene intertwined with the hip hop culture of St. Louis.

But that's not the kind of fun, growing into one's own that makes WashU so great. As FutureIDdoc stated, you are surrounded by a group of peers with whom you can identify. Elaborating on Girfaroo's post, WashU exceeds the ability of a state school (and most private schools) in throwing money at students who demonstrate ideas for new community service projects or group ideas. Attesting to the ease in changing what is around you, I created two new majors at WashU A&S: not just for myself, but as legitimate majors that people are currently declaring. My work with the administration lead to the hiring of more faculty members in areas of my interest when I identified a need. Monetary flexibility to hire new faculty and throw money at students is harder to find when your school answers to the taxpayers.

We can't provide the thrill of D-1 athletics. What does that mean for a student? Gator football is an experience you won't have in undergrad. But our football players are frequently nominated for the Campbell Trophy - the academic heisman: they're scholars too.

 

[bobsmith]

University of Florida Honors Program
Pros:
(1) 100% 4 years of tuition coverage (free for 4 years)
(2) Medical professor who admires me will be her adviser
(3) 2 research scholarship programs starting her freshman year and perhaps research opportunity at Harvard
(4) has a brother who is a stellar premed, and he knows what classes to take, which professors to avoid, how to study for classes, which clubs to join, where to volunteer and who to shadow
(5) plays music for church (med schools love artistic talent)
(6) closer to home (only 2 hours away)

don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back now

Washington University in St. Louis
Pros:
(1) State of the art research facility at #4 med school in the country
(2) State of the art premed adviser, career adviser, major adviser
(3) better reputation to med schools (90% premed acceptance)
(4) Better programs overall, so she can think about other options
(5) better food and better housing
(6) opportunity to improver herself to the next level since other students are as smart as her
(7) better chance to top tier med schools??

I've never seen "state of the art" used to describe a person. For some reason, the image of an advanced robot giving advice to premeds amuses me

Anyway, I think the question to ask her is whether or not she could see herself being happy at UF. You mentioned that she's feeling some bitterness about her options relative to some of her classmates, but if she can see herself being happy and successful at UF, she's not going to have any doors closed for her coming from there.

However, if she's the type of person that's going to feel limited and constantly wondering what could have been elsewhere, it might be worth paying to go to WashU. I mean, it's pretty difficult to be successful in college (or anywhere, really) if you're miserable the entire time.

 

[pretender]

Thank you for your advice! I think I will choose UF

Good choice! I graduated from UF and I can tell you that there is nothing holding you back from getting into a top school ( whatever that is). Yes, WashU may have slightly better academics, but I feel like UF has everything else going for it; free tuition, weather, athletics, close to home, plenty of watering holes in walking distance, greek life if you are interested. And, please don't make the library your home so you can be a "stellar premed" like your bro.

 

[RevivedPreMed]

Good choice! I graduated from UF and I can tell you that there is nothing holding you back from getting into a top school ( whatever that is). Yes, WashU may have slightly better academics, but I feel like UF has everything else going for it; free tuition, weather, athletics, close to home, plenty of watering holes in walking distance, greek life if you are interested. And, please don't make the library your home so you can be a "stellar premed" like your bro.

Although UF has nice ones!

 

[libraryismyhome]

thank you guys.

She will make her final decision.

 

[UF2099]

I went to UF for undergrad and just got accepted to WashU for med school so getting into a top-tier med school from a state school is quite possible. I loved going to UF. I would agree with posters above that it is easier to get a high GPA when you are in the top quartile intellectually. There were a number of pre-med classes like intro biology and organic where I just squeaked by with an A because I was at the top of the curve. If I had been at a harder school, that same performance would have put me in the middle of the curve, probably with a lower grade.

On the other hand, I would agree that there were times when I felt out of place and that my peers weren't challenging me enough. College is supposed to be a place where learning and an inquisitive mind are celebrated and you are encouraged to use your talents to change the world. I'm not saying there are not fantastic people at UF who really want to make a difference...there are...it's just there are a lot of less than inspiring folks who care more about where they are going to buy their keg and obscure facts about the football team. Don't get me wrong, football is awesome...especially at UF .

Another thing is resources at UF. Student to faculty ratio is something like 22:1. You are just NOT going to get the same personal faculty attention that you would at an elite private school. However, the faculty are great and you can really get a great education if you seek them out (aka ratemyprofessor.com). Also, UF's endowment (~$1 billion) does not compare to a place like WashU (~$4 billion and they only have 1/4 the number of students).

All in all, you can get a great education at UF, meet some wonderful down-to- earth people, have fun at football games, save a lot of money, and get into a great med school. Your academic experience is what you make of it and unfortunately you will encounter more business majors (no offense) at UF that could care less about learning for learning's sake, but that's life. Most people don't give a crap about Plato or that amazing publication you have in the Journal of Microbiology so you might as well get over it. Learn to enjoy doing something just because YOU find it interesting, not because other people tell you it's worthwhile.

Hope that helps.

 

[Beta Cell]

I went to UF for undergrad and just got accepted to WashU for med school so getting into a top-tier med school from a state school is quite possible. I loved going to UF. I would agree with posters above that it is easier to get a high GPA when you are in the top quartile intellectually. There were a number of pre-med classes like intro biology and organic where I just squeaked by with an A because I was at the top of the curve. If I had been at a harder school, that same performance would have put me in the middle of the curve, probably with a lower grade.

On the other hand, I would agree that there were times when I felt out of place and that my peers weren't challenging me enough. College is supposed to be a place where learning and an inquisitive mind are celebrated and you are encouraged to use your talents to change the world. I'm not saying there are not fantastic people at UF who really want to make a difference...there are...it's just there are a lot of less than inspiring folks who care more about where they are going to buy their keg and obscure facts about the football team. Don't get me wrong, football is awesome...especially at UF .

Another thing is resources at UF. Student to faculty ratio is something like 22:1. You are just NOT going to get the same personal faculty attention that you would at an elite private school. However, the faculty are great and you can really get a great education if you seek them out (aka ratemyprofessor.com). Also, UF's endowment (~$1 billion) does not compare to a place like WashU (~$4 billion and they only have 1/4 the number of students).

All in all, you can get a great education at UF, meet some wonderful down-to- earth people, have fun at football games, save a lot of money, and get into a great med school. Your academic experience is what you make of it and unfortunately you will encounter more business majors (no offense) at UF that could care less about learning for learning's sake, but that's life. Most people don't give a crap about Plato or that amazing publication you have in the Journal of Microbiology so you might as well get over it. Learn to enjoy doing something just because YOU find it interesting, not because other people tell you it's worthwhile.

Hope that helps.

I cannot agree more with above post. I'm a current rising senior at UF, applying to medical school right now, and I was just about to write a long-winded response when I saw the above. Your education is what you make of it. A lot of great talent at the college-level gets muddled with all of the distractions that exist here: newfound freedom, the opposite sex, greek life, alcohol, facebook, pick your poison. Nobody really knows the type of student your sister will become or the interests she will have in 3-4 years when it comes time to apply for medical school, but I can say with certainty that UF is a good school with great programs and faculty. I'm sure it would help to have family around who have gone through the curriculum, but in all honesty, it doesn't matter either way. A lot of intricacies of picking classes and professors is something that you pick up along the way and essentically collectively called studentsmanship.

I'd like to point out that WashU is certainly a more prestigious university, I won't deny that, but you can't really beat the zero tuition at UF-- it suits every budget.

In short, UF will take you anywhere you want to go. I've seen my friends get into Hopkins, Duke, Columbia, Harvard, Yale, etc for graduate, law and, medical school. UF won't be the thing holding anyone back.

 

[BrainBuff]

FWIW, UFlorida is considered a "public ivy" and also has a top-notch school of business.

UF students and alumni repeat this long enough so they can believe it. UF is no "public ivy" ..Get real, please.

 

[Latuza]

So why didn't your sister get into Stanford, Harvard, Brown, UPenn, Duke, etc.?

If she really wanted to have no regrets, reject both UF and WashU and reapply next year.

If she had to choose 1 of those 2, choose UF b/c you've already laid out a tried and true path for her to excel. My undergrad year would be so much easier if someone can hook me up! If you already know how to navigate for her, all the cons for UF becomes irrelevant. Research starting freshman year as a honor student! She'll be ahead of the game.

 

[ElMediano]

I recently graduated from UF. I had the option to enter some of the aforementioned undergraduate schools mentioned here. I never once regretted my decision to come to UF and I KNOW I am much better off than my counterparts who are now massively in debt. Nothing makes me laugh harder than kids who graduated from XYZ school with a useless non-terminal undergraduate degree and then complain about the debt.

The quality of education received between Florida and WashU or any other school is comparably the same. You will have learned the same premedical curriculum and the same major coursework no matter where you go.

Going to Florida will in no way whatsoever put you at a disadvantage when applying to medical school. Personally, I was accepted to four top 10 schools. If you have the GPA, MCAT and extracurriculars you will go far.

We also win championships. Does your sister want to be a champion? O, and I never heard of WashU before I applied to medical school. Everyone knows the Gators and Tim Tebow (especially medical school interviewers).

 

[NillaCoke]

UF students and alumni repeat this long enough so they can believe it. UF is no "public ivy" ..Get real, please.

I would like to hear what public university you think is better than UF?

 

[BBender716]

UF students and alumni repeat this long enough so they can believe it. UF is no "public ivy" ..Get real, please.

I'm just going by the guy who actually coined the term.

Oh, and I'm no UF student or alumn.

 

[calvinNhobbes]

So, the Ivy's are ranked 1, 1, 3, 4, 8, 11, 15, and 16.
UF is ranked 15 for public universities. Seems that would fall under "public ivy" to me.

Both are great universities that will get you where you want to go. You are fortunate to not be restrained financially. Choose which ever makes you happiest.

 

[drizzt3117]

Judging by the performance of the op's uf friends this past cycle, maybe wash u would be the better choice.