euphony00

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I'm trying to decide between WSU and MSU's CHM. I have NO IDEA which one to choose. I'd appreciate any and all ideas.
Thanks!
 

YzIa

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euphony00 said:
I'm trying to decide between WSU and MSU's CHM. I have NO IDEA which one to choose. I'd appreciate any and all ideas.
Thanks!
I listened to an M.D. from MSUCHM speak a year ago. He made a lot of humorous comments about Michigan schools, basically played on getting really intense clinical/procedural training at Wayne being in Detroit, and MSU not measuring up to that or the academics of U Mich. Keep in mind, his style was self-deprecating.
 

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I also was accepted to both Wayne and State and I chose Wayne for several reasons. First I liked the idea of being about to do 3rd and 4th year rotations at an inner city trauma center. Second, I didn't like how State did not have hospitals near by and that I would have to move after 2nd year to complete the third and fourth years. Third, I loved the anatomy experience at Wayne. I feel like I learned a lot from the cadaver lab and being able to do the dissections ourselves. Fourth, there are a ton of opportunities to get involved with the community through the myriad organizations at Wayne. One of my favourites is voluteering the Cass Clinic. Also the students are very friendly and the professors are very helpful. I also liked the lower cost of tuition at Wayne. These are only my opinions, and I wish you luck where ever you decide to go!
 

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I've responded a bunch on this topic in the past, so I'll just post a link some of my comments.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=119148



I debated the decision between the two for a long time. In the end I went with my gut and chose Wayne, and am forever happy with the path I chose. If you like CHM more, that is certainly fine, but I implore you not to discredit Wayne based on the fact that it is in Detroit. Most of the people who knock it have no idea about what goes on in this city outside of its reputation. I live in and love Detroit, it's a blast.

Any ?s, PM me or ask here.
 

AStudent

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I've also been to accepted to Wayne State and I cancelled my MSU interview after finding out. I go to MSU undergrad currently and there's no question that I would go to Wayne in a heartbeat over MSU.

Reasons:

1) MSU is packing up shop and moving to Grand Rapids in 2 years
2) MSU does rotations all over the state, even the UP
3) CAPA........trust me, you don't want to know what it is.

lon-capa.msu.edu
~cringes~
 

medic170

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AStudent said:
I've also been to accepted to Wayne State and I cancelled my MSU interview after finding out. I go to MSU undergrad currently and there's no question that I would go to Wayne in a heartbeat over MSU.

Reasons:

1) MSU is packing up shop and moving to Grand Rapids in 2 years
2) MSU does rotations all over the state, even the UP
3) CAPA........trust me, you don't want to know what it is.

lon-capa.msu.edu
~cringes~
I chose MSU hands down. Great reputation, great rotations, early clinical experience, non-competitive environment with P/F grading, not living in the middle of a big city (I love East Lansing), and PBL second year are some of the reasons.

Also:
1) The Grand Rapids expansion will not affect the class of 2009 in ANY way
2) You only do UP rotations if you do the rural physician program, otherwise, you can choose between Lansing, Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, Flint, or Saginaw.
3) Yes, CAPA sucks big time-I didn't know med students used it-that sucks

Bottom line though, they are both great schools, and I do not think one is really "better" than the other, it is more of which is more comfortable for YOU.
 

katrinadams9

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medic170 said:
I chose MSU hands down. Great reputation, great rotations, early clinical experience, non-competitive environment with P/F grading, not living in the middle of a big city (I love East Lansing), and PBL second year are some of the reasons.

Also:
1) The Grand Rapids expansion will not affect the class of 2009 in ANY way
2) You only do UP rotations if you do the rural physician program, otherwise, you can choose between Lansing, Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, Flint, or Saginaw.
3) Yes, CAPA sucks big time-I didn't know med students used it-that sucks

Bottom line though, they are both great schools, and I do not think one is really "better" than the other, it is more of which is more comfortable for YOU.
While I have to agree that East Lansing is a much better setting for medical school (having gone there for undergrad), the clinical years are supposed to be much better at Wayne. We get to rotate through something ridiculous like 50 hospitals. All of the inner city and metro Detroit hospitals are available to us, which means we won't have to move after year 2. Also, there's plenty of opportunities for us to do volunteer work where we get hands-on experience with patients... We have the P/F system here as well.

CAPA was used for our chemistry and physics classes in undergrad. It's basically a computerized way to submit your homework. The biggest problem with it is how specific you have to be in order to have your answers accepted. I remember having to go out to many many decimal places... which sucks if you round anywhere in your calculations. Having said that, if you got your answer wrong, you normally got anywhere from 10-unlimited tries to resubmit the right answer (with no penalty). So, although CAPA did suck and was time consuming, I'd say my homework grades were probably a lot higher than they would've been without it.
 

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Basically, the first 2 years you are going to learn pretty much the same stuff no matter where you are. Everyone studies from the same books, etc. The real difference comes in the clinical years. Just look at the difference in the hospitals the schools do rotations in. Where would you go for tertiary care? Certainly not Bronson, Borgess, Genesis, or any of the other MSU related programs; and those are by far the best ones they have. Outside of the UofM Hospital, Wayne students rotate through the biggest and best hospitals in the state, and some of the best in the country.

Henry Ford, Beaumont, Harper University, Detroit Receiving, Children's, VA, St. John's, Oakwood, Sinai-Grace, Hutzel Womens, and the list goes on and on....

MSU definitely gets recongition among the public because of its sports, but so does Princeton Med School (it doesnt exist). Within the medical community MSU is hardly a blip on the map, if anything someone may ask you if you are Osteopathic. With the Osteo school expanding its enrollment, that confusion is just going to get worse. Do you want your program to be the one in the shadow??? Every doctor knows about Wayne and the clinical experience of its graduates. The Med school is especially known for trauma and womens health, in fact it is ranked #1 in NIH funding for Ob/Gyn, and we recently had a JAMA article from that department.

Now, I am not one of those people who thinks their school is the best in the country, because that is certainly not the case. But, I can tell you with much confidence that it will be easier to go farther in medicine (except primary care...maybe) if you are a Wayne grad... rather than CHM.
 

medic170

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ddmoore54 said:
Basically, the first 2 years you are going to learn pretty much the same stuff no matter where you are. Everyone studies from the same books, etc. The real difference comes in the clinical years. Just look at the difference in the hospitals the schools do rotations in. Where would you go for tertiary care? Certainly not Bronson, Borgess, Genesis, or any of the other MSU related programs; and those are by far the best ones they have. Outside of the UofM Hospital, Wayne students rotate through the biggest and best hospitals in the state, and some of the best in the country.

Henry Ford, Beaumont, Harper University, Detroit Receiving, Children's, VA, St. John's, Oakwood, Sinai-Grace, Hutzel Womens, and the list goes on and on....

MSU definitely gets recongition among the public because of its sports, but so does Princeton Med School (it doesnt exist). Within the medical community MSU is hardly a blip on the map, if anything someone may ask you if you are Osteopathic. With the Osteo school expanding its enrollment, that confusion is just going to get worse. Do you want your program to be the one in the shadow??? Every doctor knows about Wayne and the clinical experience of its graduates. The Med school is especially known for trauma and womens health, in fact it is ranked #1 in NIH funding for Ob/Gyn, and we recently had a JAMA article from that department.

Now, I am not one of those people who thinks their school is the best in the country, because that is certainly not the case. But, I can tell you with much confidence that it will be easier to go farther in medicine (except primary care...maybe) if you are a Wayne grad... rather than CHM.
OUCH!!!!!!

Oh, BTW, Sparrow is a level 1 trauma center that is rated among the nations top 100 hospitals, but whose counting.

I am very depressed that my career is going to be held back by the fact that I chose MSU-CHM. Wow, good thing I did not decide on the DO school here, then I would really be screwed, eh? Do you really think MSU is THAT crappy as to say it is in the shadows of most other medical schools, hardly a blip on the map :eek: .
 

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medic170 said:
OUCH!!!!!!
Don't worry Medic, CHM's a great school, and you'll get a great education there. PBL and a small class size are some of its strengths that it sounds like you are excited to take advantage of! Another pro for CHM is that they have a mentor program, where 5 or 6 students are paired with a Doctor. They shadow that doctor, use them as an advisor/mentor and have small group classes with them. I've heard that mentees have been invited over for dinner at their mentor's houses. I know personally a doc who is a mentor and she's a lovely person and I would LOVE to have her as a mentor! This is something that I doubt Wayne could provide, with such a large class and all.

So, yes. CHM is a great school.... but so is Wayne. They each have their pros and cons.
 

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medic170 said:
Wow, good thing I did not decide on the DO school here, then I would really be screwed, eh?
Sorry, Medic, I also have to mention, COM is ranked higher than CHM in primary care, the specialty both schools are geared towards. So, no, you wouldn't be "screwed" by going to COM. When CHM moves to Grand Rapids all this confusion/rivalry will be resolved. It's such a weird environment, having 2 schools that teach the same discipline on one campus. It breeds rivalry, misunderstandings and prejudice, such as your comment above. I just wanted to clear this up for those who are interested.
 

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Soleil9 said:
Don't worry Medic, CHM's a great school, and you'll get a great education there. PBL and a small class size are some of its strengths that it sounds like you are excited to take advantage of! Another pro for CHM is that they have a mentor program, where 5 or 6 students are paired with a Doctor. They shadow that doctor, use them as an advisor/mentor and have small group classes with them. I've heard that mentees have been invited over for dinner at their mentor's houses. I know personally a doc who is a mentor and she's a lovely person and I would LOVE to have her as a mentor! This is something that I doubt Wayne could provide, with such a large class and all.

So, yes. CHM is a great school.... but so is Wayne. They each have their pros and cons.
Actually, we have the same thing at Wayne. I have two mentors who have 6 students each. One is the Cheif of Cardiology at Henry Ford who constantly invites us to round with him the the cardiac CCU. The other is an endocrinologist who has thrown pizza parties at her house. Ohh, and I have also become acquainted with the cheifs of surgery at both Henry Ford and Receiving.

So consider that an added bonus to your decision to attend Wayne.
 

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medic170 said:
OUCH!!!!!!

Oh, BTW, Sparrow is a level 1 trauma center that is rated among the nations top 100 hospitals, but whose counting.

I am very depressed that my career is going to be held back by the fact that I chose MSU-CHM. Wow, good thing I did not decide on the DO school here, then I would really be screwed, eh? Do you really think MSU is THAT crappy as to say it is in the shadows of most other medical schools, hardly a blip on the map :eek: .
Medic, you need to not take such a thing so personally. If someone said that UMich would get me farther than Wayne, I wouldn't be get in a huff about it, because for the most part they are speaking the truth.

In regards to Sparrow being a Level 1, big deal, so are most of the hospitals I listed. Level 1 pertains to trauma, and I really don't think Sparrow can hold a candle to Receiving, Grace, or Beaumont in that catagory.

Your career isn't going to be held back, but it will be harder to do certain things coming from one school compared to another. MSU isn't a crappy school, and I never said that, but it isn't a well known school within the medical community, especially the allo program.

I know and hang out with dozens of people at both MSU schools all the time and I can assure you they will be great doctors, so go ahead and calm down a bit.
 

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ummm if you guys want to crap on each others schools please leave out embarrassing things like having three digits after the word "top" or mentioning one jama publication as if it's a nobel prize.
 

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It has awesome clinicals and if you rank high in the class and rock the boards you can get a great residency spot.

However, the grading system definitely lends itself to ranking. It's all about the z-score. That is what the MSPE uses to describe your class rank when you apply for residency.
 

medic170

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Soleil9 said:
Sorry, Medic, I also have to mention, COM is ranked higher than CHM in primary care, the specialty both schools are geared towards. So, no, you wouldn't be "screwed" by going to COM. When CHM moves to Grand Rapids all this confusion/rivalry will be resolved. It's such a weird environment, having 2 schools that teach the same discipline on one campus. It breeds rivalry, misunderstandings and prejudice, such as your comment above. I just wanted to clear this up for those who are interested.
Actually, I was being sarcastic. I know COM is a great school and it was a very hard decision to decide between the 2. I was being sarcastic because of the harshness of the previous post. MSUCOM is awesome and I meant no offense to COMMERS!!! :thumbup:
 

medic170

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ddmoore54 said:
In regards to Sparrow being a Level 1, big deal, so are most of the hospitals I listed. Level 1 pertains to trauma, and I really don't think Sparrow can hold a candle to Receiving, Grace, or Beaumont in that catagory.
.
My point was not that it is a level 1 center, but that it is ranked among the top 100 hospitals in the nation, you left that part out.
 

medic170

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automaton said:
ummm if you guys want to crap on each others schools please leave out embarrassing things like having three digits after the word "top" or mentioning one jama publication as if it's a nobel prize.
Why the pleural "guys". Only one person on this thread has been crapping on other schools. Also, I hardly think those things were embarrassing to any of us.
 

lotanna

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why is this starting to sound more like CHM bashing? I go to CHM 1st yr, its a great schl, good resources and support system, works for me. I've friends at Wayne, most like it, a few here and there dont. As far as I'm concerned we should be happy we do get to go to med schl, cause I've other friends who'll gladly trade places, and are still going thru MCAT saga, and have tried unsuccessfully to get in.
Do a search on here, u'll see many threads that have beat this topic down. Each schl speaks for itself.
At this point, it's very unlikely that CHM will be able to move in 2yrs, realize they are accredited and have to get all that stuff approved, and stuff is now at a snail's pace. Noone goes to the UP unless they want to, and everyone else pretty much gets into the community they want, sometimes there's a lottery system if its in high demand.
You still have till around May 15 to make a choice right? take ur time, choose wisely and goodluck
 

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-Both schools are in the State of Michigan
-Both schools have large enrollments
-Both schools colors are green and white
-Both are public, "state" schools
-Both have human mascots of the same type (Warrior, Spartan).
-Both have ugly buildings that need renovation
-Parking is expensive and the parking nazis are bad in both cities
-Both have access to Level 1 trauma centers
-Both schools are just as much alike as not....



-Except for CAPA :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

ddmo

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AStudent said:
-Both schools are in the State of Michigan
-Both schools have large enrollments
-Both schools colors are green and white
-Both are public, "state" schools
-Both have human mascots of the same type (Warrior, Spartan).
-Both have ugly buildings that need renovation
-Parking is expensive and the parking nazis are bad in both cities
-Both have access to Level 1 trauma centers
-Both schools are just as much alike as not....



-Except for CAPA :mad: :mad: :mad:

:thumbup:
 

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ugh... my gf/fiance will probably be going to MSU... i don't know how i will ever decide... i think i am going to end up flipping a coin.
 

Soleil9

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Good job AStudent!

Ok, so now to list some things that are different:

Wayne: Dissection CHM: Prosection

Wayne: 250 ppl. per class CHM: most 1st year classes: 300+ (includes COM students) although second year (without COM students) it'll be about 100.

Wayne: Lecture based 2nd year CHM: PBL second year

Wayne: classes all in one building (Scott Hall) or in hospitals directly adjacent to Scott Hall. Parking also adjacent to classes CHM: parking is 10-15 minute walk to Conrad Hall, where most first year classes will be held. You have to cross an open field, parking lot and train tracks (no protection from wind in the winter, VERY cold). After class, its back over to Radiology building (where most CHM resources: lounge, study areas, etc. reside.) Anatomy lab is also a 10-15 minute walk from parking lot/Radiology. My point is that resources are not conveniently located at MSU.

Wayne Library directly adjacent to Scott Hall CHM Umm... There isn't a medical library...

Wayne: complete cafeteria in Scott Hall, plus many food choices in adjacent hospitals. CHM: Best you get is a glorified snack shop.

These are some of the factors that I considered when choosing a school. I know some of them seem superficial, like the walking to class thing. But really, what it comes down to is that Wayne just seems more organized with its student resources. A complete library, anatomy lab, food resources, study areas, lecture halls, huge hospitals, all on one block? Yeah, I think Wayne wins there! A much better atmosphere for me to learn, IMHO.

I may add more to this post later, as I had to make the same descision that the OP did, not more than a month ago. So I know how difficult it can be. Good luck to you.

Soleil
 

fun8stuff

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Is there any MSUCHM'ers on here that would like to comment on these comments? I have a hard time with this because the people that I know at Wayne all tell me not to go there, while the people at MSUCHM say they like it and to go where I think I will fit in best. Although, I only know a handful of people at both schools.

Does anyone know the board schools for each school?
 

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I'm gonna go ahead and give my two cents here. My personal thought is that you should make your decision based on the type of medicine you are interested in. You're going to get a great education at either school, as you will at any US med school. However, CHM has a top-ranked primary care and rural medicine program. Wayne State has an impressively large sum of NIH research dollars coming in, given the relatively small size of the school. If you fancy EM or inner city medicine, its a no brainer. Same with research.

Other than that, all you have to ask yourself is: do you really want to cheer for a team who's mascot is named Sparty?
 

Soleil9

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fun8stuff said:
Is there any MSUCHM'ers on here that would like to comment on these comments? I have a hard time with this because the people that I know at Wayne all tell me not to go there, while the people at MSUCHM say they like it and to go where I think I will fit in best. Although, I only know a handful of people at both schools.

Does anyone know the board schools for each school?
This is a good idea, I hope some current students can lend their opinions. Lotanna, for example, why did (or would) you choose CHM over Wayne? After all, I'm not a student yet so I'm only going on my own gut feelings. Though, I feel like I do have knowledge of CHM's program, for example, I shadowed and talked extensively with a CHM professor, my husband goes to MSUCOM, and I currently am working for CHM's department of Pediatrics... So, I would love to see a current student's input (including any Wayne students who are unhappy with their program) I don't want to blindly choose any school. I am big on researching all possibilities.
 

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Flobber said:
Other than that, all you have to ask yourself is: do you really want to cheer for a team who's mascot is named Sparty?
I LOVE SPARTY! :love:
 

medic170

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Soleil9 said:
Good job AStudent!

Ok, so now to list some things that are different:

Wayne: Dissection CHM: Prosection

Wayne: 250 ppl. per class CHM: most 1st year classes: 300+ (includes COM students) although second year (without COM students) it'll be about 100.

Wayne: Lecture based 2nd year CHM: PBL second year

Wayne: classes all in one building (Scott Hall) or in hospitals directly adjacent to Scott Hall. Parking also adjacent to classes CHM: parking is 10-15 minute walk to Conrad Hall, where most first year classes will be held. You have to cross an open field, parking lot and train tracks (no protection from wind in the winter, VERY cold). After class, its back over to Radiology building (where most CHM resources: lounge, study areas, etc. reside.) Anatomy lab is also a 10-15 minute walk from parking lot/Radiology. My point is that resources are not conveniently located at MSU.

Wayne Library directly adjacent to Scott Hall CHM Umm... There isn't a medical library...

Wayne: complete cafeteria in Scott Hall, plus many food choices in adjacent hospitals. CHM: Best you get is a glorified snack shop.

These are some of the factors that I considered when choosing a school. I know some of them seem superficial, like the walking to class thing. But really, what it comes down to is that Wayne just seems more organized with its student resources. A complete library, anatomy lab, food resources, study areas, lecture halls, huge hospitals, all on one block? Yeah, I think Wayne wins there! A much better atmosphere for me to learn, IMHO.

I may add more to this post later, as I had to make the same descision that the OP did, not more than a month ago. So I know how difficult it can be. Good luck to you.

Soleil
1) Most of the lectures (in fact, I think all) are held in the Life Sciences building, which is about 2 minutes from lot 100 and right next to(directly) radiology. The only class outside of their I know of is Anatomy Lab, which is in Fee Hall, about 5 minutes from lot 100. There are no med school classes in Conrad Hall, or do you know something I don't? Why the misinformation?

2) There is no actual medical library, but the MSU library is one of the largest in the state, with anything you could want medical, and you get electronic access to every medical journal you can dream of. However, I do wish it were all in one place.
 

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Soleil9 said:
Good job AStudent!

Ok, so now to list some things that are different:

Wayne: Dissection CHM: Prosection

Wayne: 250 ppl. per class CHM: most 1st year classes: 300+ (includes COM students) although second year (without COM students) it'll be about 100.

Wayne: Lecture based 2nd year CHM: PBL second year

Wayne: classes all in one building (Scott Hall) or in hospitals directly adjacent to Scott Hall. Parking also adjacent to classes CHM: parking is 10-15 minute walk to Conrad Hall, where most first year classes will be held. You have to cross an open field, parking lot and train tracks (no protection from wind in the winter, VERY cold). After class, its back over to Radiology building (where most CHM resources: lounge, study areas, etc. reside.) Anatomy lab is also a 10-15 minute walk from parking lot/Radiology. My point is that resources are not conveniently located at MSU.

Wayne Library directly adjacent to Scott Hall CHM Umm... There isn't a medical library...

Wayne: complete cafeteria in Scott Hall, plus many food choices in adjacent hospitals. CHM: Best you get is a glorified snack shop.

These are some of the factors that I considered when choosing a school. I know some of them seem superficial, like the walking to class thing. But really, what it comes down to is that Wayne just seems more organized with its student resources. A complete library, anatomy lab, food resources, study areas, lecture halls, huge hospitals, all on one block? Yeah, I think Wayne wins there! A much better atmosphere for me to learn, IMHO.

I may add more to this post later, as I had to make the same descision that the OP did, not more than a month ago. So I know how difficult it can be. Good luck to you.

Soleil
First, I would like to say that regardless of the reputation or clinical focus of any school the single greatest variable in determining the quality of your medical education is YOU. I am a first year medical student that was fortunate enough to be able to choose between several great schools. I am very pleased with my choice to attend MSU CHM. There are many similarities between Wayne State and CHM but there are clearly large differences (as you have read on this thread).

Choosing a medical school depends partially upon what your long term goals and interests are and finding a program that best fits, but not entirely. Please do not choose a school based on the quality of the cafeteria food or the layout of the buildings as I really don’t see how they will have a direct or lasting affect on your ability to learn. There are definite advantages and disadvantages of prosection vs dissection. In my opinion there is not a strong dependence or need for a huge medical library at the early part of your medical career as much of the learning is focused on basic concepts you can receive from the required text (extensive research is an exception).

I choose CHM because of its outstanding reputation and dedication to training competent and compassionate primary care physicians. Certainly, you don’t have to limit yourself to primary care but that is the strength of CHM. The curriculum is progressive, combining a variety of learning techniques in an environment that is friendly and positive. The faculty is for the most part, excellent. Are there a few minor things I would change? Sure, but good luck finding a perfect program. Bottom line is CHM provides for me absolutely everything I need to become the best physician I can be (Wayne State would do the same for others I am sure).

Write down all the pros and cons of each program and ask yourself where would I most likely flourish and be provided with the most opportunity based on my interests. Don’t convince yourself that you have to be in a larger clinical setting to learn the basic clinical concepts that medical students learn! Your residency is obviously different but you won’t be doing heart transplants in your third and fourth years! Often times the personal attention and personal contacts you will receive in smaller clinical settings is much greater and you can always rotate elsewhere if your training site doesn’t provide you enough exposure in a certain area of interest.

With that said, I believe the majority of your success as a student will be based on your ability to apply yourself, regardless of the academic/clinical setting. CAPA and other small details will not be the reason you do or do not land a top notch residency, believe me. I find it very unfortunate that some students from Wayne State have chosen to not focus on the attributes of their school, but rather the perceived or actual shortfalls of CHM. Be weary of programs or students that find fault in others, as it is often indicates their own dissatisfactions. Good Luck!
 

lotanna

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First, I would like to say that regardless of the reputation or clinical focus of any school the single greatest variable in determining the quality of your medical education is YOU. I am a first year medical student that was fortunate enough to be able to choose between several great schools. I am very pleased with my choice to attend MSU CHM. There are many similarities between Wayne State and CHM but there are clearly large differences (as you have read on this thread).

Choosing a medical school depends partially upon what your long term goals and interests are and finding a program that best fits, but not entirely. Please do not choose a school based on the quality of the cafeteria food or the layout of the buildings as I really don’t see how they will have a direct or lasting affect on your ability to learn. There are definite advantages and disadvantages of prosection vs dissection. In my opinion there is not a strong dependence or need for a huge medical library at the early part of your medical career as much of the learning is focused on basic concepts you can receive from the required text (extensive research is an exception).

I choose CHM because of its outstanding reputation and dedication to training competent and compassionate primary care physicians. Certainly, you don’t have to limit yourself to primary care but that is the strength of CHM. The curriculum is progressive, combining a variety of learning techniques in an environment that is friendly and positive. The faculty is for the most part, excellent. Are there a few minor things I would change? Sure, but good luck finding a perfect program. Bottom line is CHM provides for me absolutely everything I need to become the best physician I can be (Wayne State would do the same for others I am sure).

Write down all the pros and cons of each program and ask yourself where would I most likely flourish and be provided with the most opportunity based on my interests. Don’t convince yourself that you have to be in a larger clinical setting to learn the basic clinical concepts that medical students learn! Your residency is obviously different but you won’t be doing heart transplants in your third and fourth years! Often times the personal attention and personal contacts you will receive in smaller clinical settings is much greater and you can always rotate elsewhere if your training site doesn’t provide you enough exposure in a certain area of interest.

With that said, I believe the majority of your success as a student will be based on your ability to apply yourself, regardless of the academic/clinical setting. CAPA and other small details will not be the reason you do or do not land a top notch residency, believe me. I find it very unfortunate that some students from Wayne State have chosen to not focus on the attributes of their school, but rather the perceived or actual shortfalls of CHM. Be weary of programs or students that find fault in others, as it is often indicates their own dissatisfactions. Good Luck!
Well said my fellow CHMer :D
I'm glad with my choice I made, at the end of the day CHM was bthe best fit for me in regards to comfort and support, in order for me to be able to handle my biz. Knowing the kind of person that I am, Wayne would noo have been a good fit for me. Its is for some of my friends who go there though, but thats them. I wanted an environment where I felt like I could make it through my pre-clinical yrs, get my basic foundation right and where I knew folks would look out for me.
Y'all should realize that even with Prosection, there is a Dissection elective that anyone can take, if u really feel like u want to be a neuro surgeon 1st yr, afterall most 1st yrs dont even know what the heck we're cutting up anyway.
@Soleil, get ur facts right, Conrad Hall? huh? that was undergrad
Majority of our lectures are in Life Sciences which is next door, and Radiology building/Student Area is a way better facility, even my friends at Wayne that have seen it would agree. Plus we have access to it 24/7

Lets not be biased, talking good about ur prog shouldnt require trying to find fault on whether another schl's lunch milk box is brown or white. When u do start med schl, u'll realize that all that is really insignificant
 

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lotanna said:
@Soleil, get ur facts right, Conrad Hall? huh?
Thank you for sharing your insights into CHM.

I have been informed by MSU-COM that due to the increased class size and scheduling conflicts, they will be using Conrad Hall for first year classes. I assume that they will still be combining the Biochem/ PSL classes, and thus the CHM students will be using Conrad for those classes. If you have heard anything different in this area, I stand corrected, as I have only heard this from the COM side of things.
 

medic170

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Soleil9 said:
Thank you for sharing your insights into CHM.

I have been informed by MSU-COM that due to the increased class size and scheduling conflicts, they will be using Conrad Hall for first year classes. I assume that they will still be combining the Biochem/ PSL classes, and thus the CHM students will be using Conrad for those classes. If you have heard anything different in this area, I stand corrected, as I have only heard this from the COM side of things.
It is not true. the lecture hall in life sciences can easily accomodate everyone, and even if it could not, CHMers would have first dibs on it since it is technically our territory. Conrad lecture hall is no larger than LS, so why would we move over there anyway?
 

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Capa in medical school is not the same as the capa in undergrad..Capa in medical school deals with selecting a multiple choice answer..and even then..you don't use it outside of the occasional physiology homework...but if that is a deciding factor on where to go to school...then I'm not sure how to help you cuz I didn't think it was important. I also chose bet Wayne and CHM 2 yrs ago and am VERY happy with my choice to go to CHM..I"m not going to get into specifics here..since so many other things are being said, half of which aren't true. If you have any questions, feel free to pm me.
 

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Soleil9 said:
Sorry, Medic, I also have to mention, COM is ranked higher than CHM in primary care, the specialty both schools are geared towards. So, no, you wouldn't be "screwed" by going to COM. When CHM moves to Grand Rapids all this confusion/rivalry will be resolved. It's such a weird environment, having 2 schools that teach the same discipline on one campus. It breeds rivalry, misunderstandings and prejudice, such as your comment above. I just wanted to clear this up for those who are interested.

hey all, I just wanted to clear up something that I have seen posted on SDN many times about CHM. CHM is not moving to Grand Rapids. In an effort to improve CHM research, it was decided to create a relationship with Grand Rapids and their significant research institutions. Originally the idea was entertained to move the entire school, but was quickly nixed after a public outcry and logistical problems. From what I understand now there will a be a program through MSUCHM where you can do all four years of med school at Grand Rapids and have a research focus as opposed to the traditional MSUCHM primary care focus. This is all very much in the preliminary phases; no definite plans have been made.

http://www.chm.msu.edu/Faculty/ for the latest on the expansion.


And to the original poster, I urge you to not use SDN in your decision on which medical school you go to. Many of the posts I have read are biased, inaccurate and/or written in an inflammatory method. Good luck deciding!
 

Soleil9

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Hosehead said:
CHM is not moving to Grand Rapids....


And to the original poster, I urge you to not use SDN in your decision on which medical school you go to. Many of the posts I have read are biased, inaccurate and/or written in an inflammatory method. Good luck deciding!
It seems that this situation has been changing very quickly! Thank you for the link to the latest news.

And as for the replies in this thread to the OPs question, they asked for "any and all ideas" and comments about the respective schools. I gave my opinion as to why I chose Wayne, and why I didn't choose CHM. It's just my opinion, not meant to be biased, and certainly not meant to be inaccurate. And inflamming this post was the last thing on my mind! I was simply listing some things that I thought about when choosing a school. Whether or not those things will pertain to you or the OP is based on your personality and learning style. I was just sharng my thoughts. No harm intended.

Whichever school you choose, you are going to medical school, and you will be attending an excellent institution where you will receive a great education.

Good luck to all!
Soleil
 

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Just to give you a slightly different perspective about MSU -I'm a 1st yr, and hate primary care, lon-capa, and sparrow's not really getting my nuts off either...
but you know what? I couldn't give a nun's a$$ about these issues because they have no bearing on my day to day reality-what actually influences the quality of a med student's life? the curriculum, or...., e.g. the proximity of decent bars and females? (including the oh so hot Jenny Granholm) :love: As far as the future goes, yeah, if you want to cruise through here, you're not getting derm at mgh based on the school's prestige factor-here and 80 other schools-but you can definitely make a name for yourself if that's your thing - and completely chart your own path. It can be done- hey I'm getting a 1st author MRI study on the ol' CV next month, and I'm a slacker jackass- :p and almost everyone I know has taken advantage of the cornucopia of clinical volunteer ops in lansing and overseas. Last night I was putting some back with the newly matched 4th years, some had 250-260 boards and were going into competitive specialties at high falootin hospitals-but whatever.
Bottom line is, state is a fun place with a close knit class of really cool, interesting, Diverse, laid back people
I chose it over Georgetown and totally do not regret it, and not just because of the money-seriously, I spent a year out there and I won't knock it, but state is just like a good home cooked meal with all the fixin's-lots of gravy baby. :thumbup: :thumbup:
 

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He has a point, MSU has some of the hottest females in the nation....

http://www.thehottestcoed.com/top25.php

Sancho said:
Just to give you a slightly different perspective about MSU -I'm a 1st yr, and hate primary care, lon-capa, and sparrow's not really getting my nuts off either...
but you know what? I couldn't give a nun's a$$ about these issues because they have no bearing on my day to day reality-what actually influences the quality of a med student's life? the curriculum, or...., e.g. the proximity of decent bars and females? (including the oh so hot Jenny Granholm) :love: As far as the future goes, yeah, if you want to cruise through here, you're not getting derm at mgh based on the school's prestige factor-here and 80 other schools-but you can definitely make a name for yourself if that's your thing - and completely chart your own path. It can be done- hey I'm getting a 1st author MRI study on the ol' CV next month, and I'm a slacker jackass- :p and almost everyone I know has taken advantage of the cornucopia of clinical volunteer ops in lansing and overseas. Last night I was putting some back with the newly matched 4th years, some had 250-260 boards and were going into competitive specialties at high falootin hospitals-but whatever.
Bottom line is, state is a fun place with a close knit class of really cool, interesting, Diverse, laid back people
I chose it over Georgetown and totally do not regret it, and not just because of the money-seriously, I spent a year out there and I won't knock it, but state is just like a good home cooked meal with all the fixin's-lots of gravy baby. :thumbup: :thumbup:
 

medic170

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Soleil9 said:
Thank you for sharing your insights into CHM.

I have been informed by MSU-COM that due to the increased class size and scheduling conflicts, they will be using Conrad Hall for first year classes. I assume that they will still be combining the Biochem/ PSL classes, and thus the CHM students will be using Conrad for those classes. If you have heard anything different in this area, I stand corrected, as I have only heard this from the COM side of things.
Soleil. I owe you an apology. I was on the MSU registration web site looking at the times that we will be in class this fall, and I'll be damned if some of those classes were not indeed in Conrad. You were right, and this sucks!!!!

BMB 514 Medical Biochemistry Pass-No Grade (P-N) System
001 3 MTuWThF 9:00a 9:50a 102 Conrad Hall - 0 275 439
 

AStudent

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I had my 300 level genetics courses in Conrad.....bad memories. But at least there's a bus stop right outside the door.

medic170 said:
Soleil. I owe you an apology. I was on the MSU registration web site looking at the times that we will be in class this fall, and I'll be damned if some of those classes were not indeed in Conrad. You were right, and this sucks!!!!

BMB 514 Medical Biochemistry Pass-No Grade (P-N) System
001 3 MTuWThF 9:00a 9:50a 102 Conrad Hall - 0 275 439
 

Soleil9

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medic170 said:
Soleil. I owe you an apology. I was on the MSU registration web site looking at the times that we will be in class this fall, and I'll be damned if some of those classes were not indeed in Conrad. You were right, and this sucks!!!!
That's ok Medic. Actually, a couple of months ago I even heard rumors that they were going to be using Vet Med!! :eek: So I guess it could be worse!

To AStudent: There is that bus stop out front, but as I recall it wouldn't be a direct route to Life Sciences/Radiology. You'd have to transfer at the Transportation center. Now if they made a route that went right up to Radiology, this would make it really nice for the med students in the winter! I'm such a wimp when it comes to weather.