"We like you!" Phone calls and Emails from Residency Directors

[psy la vie]

I know there isn't exactly data on this, but how meaningful do you think the "we like you" messages are? Anyone have any stories of getting a (non-generic) phone call or email from a program and then not matching there?

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[shan564]

I know there isn't exactly data on this, but how meaningful do you think the "we like you" messages are? Anyone have any stories of getting a (non-generic) phone call or email from a program and then not matching there?

Yeah, there are many such stories. This topic has been discussed extensively here and on the ERAS/NRMP forum. Overall, the consensus is that you should take all of this communication with a grain of salt.

 

[twright]

I know there isn't exactly data on this, but how meaningful do you think the "we like you" messages are? Anyone have any stories of getting a (non-generic) phone call or email from a program and then not matching there?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22914523

Acad Med. 2012 Oct;87(10):1434-42.
The prevalence and nature of postinterview communications between residency programs and applicants during the match.
Jena AB, Arora VM, Hauer KE, Durning S, Borges N, Oriol N, Elnicki DM, ***an MJ, Harrell HE, Torre D, Prochaska M, Meltzer DO, Reddy S.

Source
Department of Medicine, Massachusetts General Hospital, and Department of Health Care Policy, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02115-5899, USA. [email protected]

Abstract

PURPOSE:
To examine the frequency and nature of postinterview communications between programs and applicants during the National Resident Matching Program (NRMP) Main Residency Match.

METHOD:
The authors surveyed senior medical students at seven U.S. medical schools about postinterview communications with residency programs during the 2010 Match and analyzed the data.

RESULTS:
The response rate was 68.2% (564/827). Among respondents, 86.4% reported communicating with residency programs. Most (59.9%) reported telling more than one program they would rank it highly; 1.1% reported telling more than one they would rank it first. Students reported that programs told them they would be "ranked to match" (34.6%), be "ranked highly" (52.8%), or "fit well" (76.2%). Almost one-fifth (18.6 %) reported feeling assured by a program that they would match there but did not despite ranking that program first; 23.4% reported altering their rank order list based on communications with programs. In multivariate analysis, applicants to more competitive specialties were less likely to report being told they would be "ranked to match" (relative risk [RR] 0.72, 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.52-0.99). Applicants were more likely to report being told that they would be "ranked to match" if they received honors in the specialty clerkship (RR 1.39, 95% CI 1.10-1.77) or were members of Alpha Omega Alpha (RR 1.72, 95% CI 1.37-2.17).

CONCLUSIONS:
Reports of nonbinding communications with programs were frequent. Students should be advised to interpret any comments made by programs cautiously. Reported violations of the NRMP's Match Participation Agreement were uncommon.​

However, it should be noted that this study only describes applicants' perceptions (i.e., applicants felt assured that they would rank but did not). We really have no idea whether applicants were actually told that they were ranked to match.

 

[psy la vie]

shan and twright, thanks for the replies. I especially appreciate the link to the study -- while it didn't answer my specific question, the objective approach is helpful.

I was curious about the methods that the study authors used, so here's the full text version in case anyone else is interested.

http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...revalence_and_Nature_of_Postinterview.32.aspx

 

[righteous]

Anyone else hear from UIC, Case Western, Cinci, or UMich?

 

[futuredrpsych]

Anyone else hear from UIC, Case Western, Cinci, or UMich?

I heard from Michigan via email a few weeks ago but nothing since

 

[LucidDreaming]

Did anyone hear about their ranking status from northwestern? just curious as I finalize my list.

 

[kindasorta]

Did anyone hear about their ranking status from northwestern? just curious as I finalize my list.

negative

 

[LucidDreaming]

ok sounds good. I guess they play by the rules, which is good.

 

[kindasorta]

ok sounds good. I guess they play by the rules, which is good.

or i'm not ranked

 

[FLpk1girl86]

Programs tend not to contact you spontaneously. PDs in general are so busy during rank time that they simply don't have enough time to go down the list and contact everyone. My sense is that, for a program to contact you spontaneously, a PD or APD call if you are 'ranked to match' or pretty high on their list. Otherwise, they will not bother to call or email you to recruit, even if you are at a level where it is typical for an applicant to match based on previous years.

I sent generic thank you letters to my top 2/3rd programs within the week or so after the interview, including 'love letters' to 6 programs, and further contacted my top 4 programs post-interview trail.

To be transparent, these are the programs I have heard from:
a. Ranked to match: MGH, NYU, Sinai
b. Highly regarded (received call or PD email): Yale, Penn, Longwood, Stanford, Cornell, Columbia
c. More than generic email: UMass, UCSD, AECOM
d. Minimal contact (generic email): UW
e. No response (even to thank you letter): Hopkins, CHA



It depends on programs. "highly regarded, suffice to say you left a good impression, rank highly" are some of the better remarks I have heard in that gray zone.

I noticed you are ranking many Boston programs... How did you feel about Tufts, did you apply there? I'm asking because it's the only one in the city that I did hear from.

 

[shan564]

ok sounds good. I guess they play by the rules, which is good.

There are no rules against recruiting or providing information about an applicant's rank. The notable exception is asking people about their rank lists.

 

[member2721]

I noticed you are ranking many Boston programs... How did you feel about Tufts, did you apply there? I'm asking because it's the only one in the city that I did hear from.

Sorry I didn't apply. I did apply to BU but never got offered an interview.

 

[LucidDreaming]

There are no rules against recruiting or providing information about an applicant's rank. The notable exception is asking people about their rank lists.

There are new NMRP codes against excessive/unnecessary e post-interview communications though: www.nrmp.org/code.pdf

 

[member2721]

Has anyone heard from MGH's integrated program regarding program updates or your ranking? You can PM me too. Thanks!

 

[member2721]

Just got an email this morning...
I Guess sometimes they really don't have a finalized list until the day of!

On another note, I just wanted to let applicants know that my PD told me to really clarify your rank list choice with programs where you have been quite upfront about, including to all the non-program leadership (ie research mentors) people you communicated to, especially if you said you would rank them first or at the top of your list at some point and that has changed.

PDs and faculty can really feel stood up, even angry, if they felt mislead or feel that you aren't good for your word. And given how small the community is, it's best to clarify and explain before they find out on match day.

More specifically, I spent the last few days emailing all the research mentors/APD/PDs whom I had corresponded with from programs that were at one point my 'favorite', 'first on my list despite more interviews to go', as well as programs I had in my 'top 3 or top 2' at some point, to thank them and explain that my first choice was no longer X, but Y and for these reasons, but I will still rank them highly at ##. All the people I heard back from have been very supportive in their response to these honest emails, with nothing to suggest they have changed their rank list because of my clarification.

 

[ConfettiMD]

On another note, I just wanted to let applicants know that my PD told me to really clarify your rank list choice with programs where you have been quite upfront about, including to all the non-program leadership (ie research mentors) people you communicated to, especially if you said you would rank them first or at the top of your list at some point and that has changed.

Seriously? *sigh* - What if you used words like "ranking highly" or "one of my favorites". I tried purposefully to be vague in case something like this happened.

 

[Firewood]

Seriously? *sigh* - What if you used words like "ranking highly" or "one of my favorites". I tried purposefully to be vague in case something like this happened.

If phrased like that, I'm sure you're fine.

Perhaps the lesson here is to not tell every program where they are ranked on your list until your list is a little more solidified.

 

[member2721]

Seriously? *sigh* - What if you used words like "ranking highly" or "one of my favorites". I tried purposefully to be vague in case something like this happened.

You are fine, being purposefully vague. That sounds vague enough.
I, on the other hand, was being purposefully flirty. *sigh*

 

[Saluki]

I sent an "I'm ranking you number one" to my number one and enthusiastic love letters to 2-5 when I was applying. I knew it was foolish to let post-interview correspondence sway my rank list, but it sort of did. My number one would have been the same regardless, but number four might have been number two or three if the post-interview correspondence went differently.

At that program, I had three great interviews and then one that was really awkward. I initially got a lovely note in response to my thank you email to the PD that asked me to stay in touch throughout the application season. A couple email updates separated by a couple months then went unanswered, and my love note got a lukewarm response. Maybe it was all the spam filter, but I got the impression that the interviewer that things had gone badly had given me bad reviews. My other top four and some of my lower down ones had either been enthusiastic in response to my communications or actively recruited.

So, that's the true confession of someone silly enough to change their rank list in response to post interview communication. Sincerely, though, I think that the program's reaction to us is factored into how we rank the program and partially explains the large percentage of people who match at their top choice.

 

[DandelionMed]

The whole point is that this change in feelings is really pretty unconscious, even if you're suspicious about your own motivations. New information is bound to change your feelings, and when so much of this decision is based on your gut, it's hard to know why your gut feels a certain way. Maybe it's because something about program X seems like less of a good fit over time, but maybe it's because they didn't send you a letter about being ranked to match, and maybe it's not. We're complicated critters.

It's pretty much like watching the Bachelor. The Bachelor is pretty influenced by how much he thinks the girls are in to him as well. There's no way Sean would be so into Tierra (the borderline with the dent in her head) if he didn't get the feeling from day one that she was drilling her eyes into his, um, brain. He just let Selma go because he figured out she was way too narcissistic to ever like him as much as he likes himself (even though most guys would probably say she was a standard deviation above most of the others in hotness).


*cue comment from Vistaril about something "manly.*

Don't worry, V, I only watch The Bachelor with an assault rifle across my lap while eating raw buffalo meat that I caught with my bare hands in the alley behind the strip club.


We're not rational beings, but as psychiatrists we're a little bit more navel gazing and tend to think about this stuff more than others. Of course no one should CONSCIOUSLY make a change in your ROL based on post-interview feedback, but unless you're Mr Spock, it's awfully hard to assess your true motivations around your decisions.

Agree