Weakest applicant that ever got in?

[craigory]

This isn't another thread about "Oh, who got in with bad stats so I can feel good about my application", but it is inspired by that train of thought. In todays dental school climate, those of us who coasted through school are really, really, really having a hard time getting in (and for the most part, that serves us right.)

However, talking with admissions officials, graduates, and even some older practicing professionals, I seem to get the impression that the dental school admissions climate was drastically different fifteen years ago. I hear stories (and stories they are, because they could all be made up) about people getting in with GPAs in the mid twos and pathetically low DAT scores, it seems like fifteen to twenty years ago it was an era where just knowing someone or kissing enough *** could open the doors wide for you.

I just wanted to know if any of you had any good stories, verified or not, of someone who would never, ever, ever have a chance of getting in today coasting right on in in the past.

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[blankguy]

Yeah, I once saw a brochure for Case from the late 80s, the stats back then was average GPA was around 2.7ish with DAT scores in 17ish. It certainly has changed a lot. It goes without saying that those people are making out like bandits now. It's good people are taking dentistry much more seriously now. I feel a lot better about having better future classmates academically. I even heard one case of a student being recruited back then to go to dental school.

 

[DRHOYA]

Actually from looking through the ADEA official guide to dental schools for students entering in 2009, for most schools, on range of GPA's went from high 2's to 4.0's. Same with DAT scores, ranged from terrible to 22's. Evidently some people are getting in with sub-par stats. I think the most outrageuos stat though, was the range of PAT scores for Kentucky.......the low was an 11. Seriously wtf.......11!!!!!!! come on now.

 

[supraman]

So what is your GPA, thats how you can get feedback and about your chances

 

[craigory]

So what is your GPA, thats how you can get feedback and about your chances

I'm not looking for feedback re: chances, I just wanted to hear any amusing stories about really "unqualified" (by this board's standards) applicants who got in.

 

[tinman831]

GPA is inversely proportional to DAT scores FYI.

 

[craigory]

Actually from looking through the ADEA official guide to dental schools for students entering in 2009, for most schools, on range of GPA's went from high 2's to 4.0's. Same with DAT scores, ranged from terrible to 22's. Evidently some people are getting in with sub-par stats. I think the most outrageuos stat though, was the range of PAT scores for Kentucky.......the low was an 11. Seriously wtf.......11!!!!!!! come on now.

That blows my mind. I once took a Kaplan practice DAT on the CD and I got bored midway through the PAT - I guessed on at least half of it, completely randomly - still pulled a 13. To get an 11 you would have to be blind or just completely not trying!

 

[streptmutan]

I read somewhere that one girl got into my state school with a 2.2 sgpa and like 2.5 c gpa and 15 on dat but she was in a grad. program. However she wasnt even from the state? Another person supposedly got in the 07' class with good gpa but had a 2 on orgo sec. of dat and 11 and 12 on gen chem and bio respectively! But i did just read this somewhere and havent actually talked to these people!!

 

[airsimon]

My brother-in-law graduated from d-school about 5 years ago. He had a 19 DAT and a 2.9sGPA and applied in late October. He had a couple interviews lined up but only attended one (Case) and got in the day of the interview.

 

[thankyou]

I have a D- and an F and I only got a 11 on the math part of my DAT. (Science Scores way high, but in math I sucked it up.) I'm in off a waitlist this year.

 

[DRHOYA]

You really can't judge what considers a weak applicant (unless they have terrible grades, terrible DAT, and no experience what-so-ever). When you look at the ranges of DAT & GPA for each school (2008 ADEA guid), for almost every schools their lowest in the range for DAT is anywhere from 11-15, with max being at 22-23, and GPA ranges from 2.5 - 4.0. You don't know everyones story, the kid with the 2.5GPA could have had the 22 DAT score. Its all relative, just do YOUR best to get in, don't worry about everyone else.

 

[craigory]

I think some people are misunderstanding the point of this thread. I know there are a lot of "what are my chances" threads, but if you read the original post, you'd see...

I'm not looking for my "chances" or to compare stats to feel good.

I wanted to hear AMUSING stories of applicants from TIMES PAST who got in, that could never get in today, as I always hear anecdotes about how easy it was to get in the last 40 years up until the 000's.

I'm sure out there, a practicing dentist applied in 1987 with a 2.0, a 13 on his DAT, and god knows what else, and got in by luck or charm or something. Those are the kinds of things I wanted to hear about!

 

[blankguy]

This was on the July 2007 issue of Reader's digest. This dentist was nailed for murdering his wife. In the course of the investigation they went back to his dental school days. Apparently there was an unsolved murder case of a dental student. The investigators managed to link this murder case with that so they booked him. In the course of the investigation stories about his character came to light. He had a short fuse had cases in which he smashed his projects against the wall during his days in dental school. How's that for interesting? Thank god they don't admit wackos like him. I think the point being is that people apply to dental school now instead of trying to get people to get interested in dental school.

 

[phantasmagoriun]

I got a good story about my cousin. He's a lot older than me (like in his 50s) and back in the day he was one of those kids that skipped grades because he was so damn smart. Problem was he was a complete pothead and once he got to college, all hell broke lose. He didn't take it very seriously until his last year and graduated with a 2.1 something. He decided to try dental school and wound up with a 13 on his dat's. He told me he applied to over 20 schools and every single one rejected him outright except for Howard, which ultimately saw that he was no longer a f*ckup and excepted him. He's now one of the biggest orthodontists in Boston with 3 or 4 offices which he runs with his son.

 

[DRHOYA]

My father graduated from Georgetown University School of Dental Medicine in 1980, and he said when he took the DAT in the 70's, it was based on a totally different grading scheme. You received two raw scores out of 6 (6 being perfect). One score was for sciences, and one score was for reading/perceptual. Anyone know when the DAT evolved into its current form?

 

[doc toothache]

On a slow day why not bash those that are not as fortunate intellectually or as well of socio/economically as some of us are. If nothing else, we can get a chuckle hearing about anecdotal stories. Who cares whether or not they are true? Anyways, we certainly know more than adcoms who deserves to be on Santa's list. One does wonder if attitude is what is keeping some from getting acceptances.

 

[DentAZ]

My brother got into case 6 years ago with a 15 overall DAT and a 3.5 gpa. I am higher and was turned down by case 2 years in a row. No matter, at least I'm in now.

My brother-in-law was accepted into Temple 6 years ago without having taken the DAT. He took it in January after being accepted in October. His brother was a D4 and knew the admissions office well. They basically offered the position based on his good grades and brother. NO DAT...seriously!

 

[DentAZ]

One does wonder if attitude is what is keeping some from getting acceptances.

I really believe this is the truth. Attitude and personality go a long way. I have seen 3.9 students with 20+ DAT be denied because they were either cocky or not amiable at all.

The scores aren't everything, that is why the personal statement is so important.

 

[blankguy]

I got a good story about my cousin. He's a lot older than me (like in his 50s) and back in the day he was one of those kids that skipped grades because he was so damn smart. Problem was he was a complete pothead and once he got to college, all hell broke lose. He didn't take it very seriously until his last year and graduated with a 2.1 something. He decided to try dental school and wound up with a 13 on his dat's. He told me he applied to over 20 schools and every single one rejected him outright except for Howard, which ultimately saw that he was no longer a f*ckup and excepted him. He's now one of the biggest orthodontists in Boston with 3 or 4 offices which he runs with his son.

That's quite a story. Unfortunately admissions now a days are not as forgiving. I read a story several years ago from UMass Boston newspaper. Apparently this kids life in his high school years was a mess(substance abuse). His life at that stage was a blur. He took the GED and managed to get in to UMass-Boston. From then on he kicked butt. Went to Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar pulled a 4.0 there. Applied to medical school but realized that he could make a bigger impact as a researcher so he turned down med school and went for a PhD program.

 

[blankguy]

My father graduated from Georgetown University School of Dental Medicine in 1980, and he said when he took the DAT in the 70's, it was based on a totally different grading scheme. You received two raw scores out of 6 (6 being perfect). One score was for sciences, and one score was for reading/perceptual. Anyone know when the DAT evolved into its current form?

All I know is that the ADEA decided to add a PAT section around 1998.

 

[doc toothache]

All I know is that the ADEA decided to add a PAT section around 1998.

More like 1972.

http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/dat/dat_users_manual.pdf

 

[War Eagle]

My father graduated from Georgetown University School of Dental Medicine in 1980, and he said when he took the DAT in the 70's, it was based on a totally different grading scheme. You received two raw scores out of 6 (6 being perfect). One score was for sciences, and one score was for reading/perceptual. Anyone know when the DAT evolved into its current form?

A dentist I shadowed told me about that format when he took the test. He said that some people would walk out after receiving a zero! How would that make you feel to get a zero on the DAT? Haha.

 

[craigory]

On a slow day why not bash those that are not as fortunate intellectually or as well of socio/economically as some of us are. If nothing else, we can get a chuckle hearing about anecdotal stories. Who cares whether or not they are true? Anyways, we certainly know more than adcoms who deserves to be on Santa's list. One does wonder if attitude is what is keeping some from getting acceptances.

Sorry, but you've definitely misconstrued the intent of this thread. By no means is it meant for "bashing" anyone. In fact, if you read the original post, it isn't even geared towards anyone from a recent cycle. The simple truth is that dental school admissions have not been as stringent as they are now until the last decade. I simply wanted to hear about people slacking their way into school in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's. You'll notice that no reply bashed anyone based on class or intellect.

Relax a little bit, I know it is hard to judge context on the internet, but this was meant in good nature! We're not being cruel around here.

 

[doc toothache]

Sorry, but you've definitely misconstrued the intent of this thread. By no means is it meant for "bashing" anyone. In fact, if you read the original post, it isn't even geared towards anyone from a recent cycle. The simple truth is that dental school admissions have not been as stringent as they are now until the last decade. I simply wanted to hear about people slacking their way into school in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's. You'll notice that no reply bashed anyone based on class or intellect.

Every generation likes to think that they have had the roughest, toughest, meanest time trying to get into dental school. The lower gpa of a few decades ago may have more to do with grade inflation in the last 10+ years than with "more stringent dental school admissions".

 

[craigory]

I'm sorry but i can't help but feel you are trolling for an argument when there doesn't need to be one. This isn't a mean spirited thread.

 

[doc toothache]

I hear stories (and stories they are, because they could all be made up) about people getting in with GPAs in the mid twos and pathetically low DAT scores, it seems like fifteen to twenty years ago it was an era where just knowing someone or kissing enough *** could open the doors wide for you.

I'm not looking for feedback re: chances, I just wanted to hear any amusing stories about really "unqualified" (by this board's standards) applicants who got in.

That blows my mind. I once took a Kaplan practice DAT on the CD and I got bored midway through the PAT - I guessed on at least half of it, completely randomly - still pulled a 13. To get an 11 you would have to be blind or just completely not trying!

I'm sure out there, a practicing dentist applied in 1987 with a 2.0, a 13 on his DAT, and god knows what else, and got in by luck or charm or something. Those are the kinds of things I wanted to hear about!

An elegant rhapsody.

 

[DRHOYA]

An elegant rhapsody.

Dude, I amost choked on an orange while reading that.

 

[craigory]

An elegant rhapsody.

I'm deeply sorry that my thread offended you Doc. I'm not too sure how your reply addresses the fact that you are just dying to be combatative, especially since it is FACT, not opinion, that dental admissions have gotten more difficult. They certainly aren't recruiting people anymore!

While I regret the use of the phrasing "pathetically low" DAT scores (I'm not in any position to throw stones stats wise), it seems pretty clear that most people understood the gist of the thread. You have a hard-on of some kind for shooting down anything I say here, regardless of relevance to your initial complaint - may I suggest then that if you don't agree with the theme here, having said your piece initially, you just leave it alone?

 

[idontcareanymor]

dudes, I don't like to comment on a lot of threads but I have to say, it's really kind of mean how ONE person has to pick on the innocent thread starter and start bashing...it was honestly just a fun thread guys, no need to ruin it. I mean come on, why does EVERYTHING here have to be argued about?! geez it's just a thread...I for one enjoyed reading it.

 

[DRHOYA]

Oh cmon guys lighten up and relax. The OP clearly has a point that DS admissions have increased in competitiveness....no question. The OP just wanted to hear some stories. There were always stories and always will be. No one is bashing stats, in fact.....the dentist's that graduated in the times the OP is mentioning are letting us shadow, and possibly teaching us. They obviously are good at what they do. Doc-toothace was just having a play on words.....relax. Its all kind of funny. Isn't what this thread was supposed to be about?