Weighing certain aspects of the MD against the PhD

[VoiceofReason]

Knowing what I know now, I'm no longer sure I want to spend so much energy and time on something that is so much of a crapshoot. So I'm wondering if anyone is willing to point me toward a good comparison of the MD route to the PhD route.

I'm particularly interested in job security, mostly because I hear a lot about PhD's struggling to find work. Also, I want to work in the industry in research and development (so that might have some bearing on the answer to the previous question). I was motivated to go into medicine by my love of biomedical science first and foremost (that is to say, the intellectual challenge and the idea that I would be doing something helpful for humanity), and pay/prestige a distant second (but not insignificant).

Basically, I've applied once to medical school and I'm stuck on 4 waitlists. I was extremely late in applying, but even so, I feel like there is too much luck involved in this process for me to justify more time spent. I want to spend my energy on something similar but that is more of a sure thing, really.

Any insight would be appreciated.

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[DDSBound]

I can speak about this because I work in it. I work at a research hospital in PA for an MD/PhD. In my lab, there are 4 PhDs, 2 MD/PhDs, 2MDs and me. Research is a VERY rewarding profession and I would trust many (not all) PhDs over MDs because despite their narrow scope, their knowledge of physiology, biochemistry and overall functioning of the body is broad and detailed just from the nature of research. The bad thing is funding is low. Only approximately 8% of grants are funded through NIH, NSF, DOD. If you are out of funding, you are forced to move somewhere else for work or join another lab if they will take you in. If you work for NIH however, you don't have to apply for funding so this maybe ideal. Pharmaceutical companies also pay HIGH but you have to produce. The other downside is PhD takes 5 years min. and then postdoc positions for 2-8 years more. The postdoc from our lab just went to Harvard to do research. THey are only paying her 48K in Boston. From what I know, it is getting harder and harder for researchers, but it is still a good profession depending where you want to go.

 

[njbmd]

Knowing what I know now, I'm no longer sure I want to spend so much energy and time on something that is so much of a crapshoot. So I'm wondering if anyone is willing to point me toward a good comparison of the MD route to the PhD route.

I'm particularly interested in job security, mostly because I hear a lot about PhD's struggling to find work. Also, I want to work in the industry in research and development (so that might have some bearing on the answer to the previous question). I was motivated to go into medicine by my love of biomedical science first and foremost (that is to say, the intellectual challenge and the idea that I would be doing something helpful for humanity), and pay/prestige a distant second (but not insignificant).

Basically, I've applied once to medical school and I'm stuck on 4 waitlists. I was extremely late in applying, but even so, I feel like there is too much luck involved in this process for me to justify more time spent. I want to spend my energy on something similar but that is more of a sure thing, really.

Any insight would be appreciated.

I have both degrees and I worked as a research scientist/professor before attending medical school. First of all, job security is meaningless if you hate what you do. Practicing clinical medicine and working as a research scientist/professor are two entirely different entities so you have to decide what you actually WANT to do, not job security. If you actually want job security, nursing, radiography, physician assistant (all biomedical) all take far less time than pursuing medicine or a Ph.D and have great job security.

If money is a concern, neither medicine nor Ph.D are going to be hugely profitable until you have invested a huge amount of time in your training. Even then, there are easier and faster ways to make money (biomedical engineering, medical device business) are relatively profitable means of making money that do not involve the years and commitment that of becoming a physician or Ph.D scientist.

I am not questioning your ability to become a physician or Ph.D scientist(I am sure you more than exceed the qualifications for both) but I am questioning whether you are realistic about the process. In my experience, neither of my careers was a "crap shoot" but the end result of careful and meticulous preparation and processing. There was nothing random about either of my careers. Granted, if I had not gotten into medical school, I could have easily continued to teach and do research but my preparation for my Ph.D was definitely not random and I didn't have a "fall-back" plan then.

Medicine is four years of medical school (no income) followed by 3 to 5+ years of residency (at marginal income). Becoming a Ph.D is minimally 4 years of coursework/dissertation research followed by 2-6 years of post-doc experience depending on what you ultimately want to accomplish. If you decide to head into academia, there is the issue of achieving tenure which can depend on your ability to write grants, do research and teach. If not academia but industry, you may spend a few years in an apprentice-type position which pays slightly more than post-doc before you see any huge amounts of monetary compensation.

In terms of both careers, the process was far from torture and immensely interesting and intellectually stimulating. I thrived on the politics of being an assistant professor in academics, loved teaching and loved my research. In medical school, I loved the subject matter and loved the challenge of doing better and better with each task. As residency quickly draws to a close, I can also say that I love taking care of patients and impacting their lives. In addition, I have some wonderful teaching responsibilities. In short, I love my career and would likely do what I am doing no matter what. Every day is just plain fun.

Sure it's difficult sitting on wait lists but now is the time to decide what you want and what you are going to do to get it. In terms of medicine, you choices are to re-apply or attend if you get off the wait list. In terms of graduate school, your choice is to apply (if you didn't do this at the same time your were floating your AMCAS application). In either case, if you don't get in, you should have a solid "Plan B" waiting in the wings.

If you are considering reapplication to medical school, June approaches fast and you mentioned that you were a late applicant this year. This would be a great time to be getting your stuff ready to go.

Good luck with your decision-making.

 

[VoiceofReason]

To clarify: I feel I would be happy doing the work of either a medical doctor or a PhD scientist, as both are jobs that involve biomedical science and are mentally challenging and stimulating (these are my primary motivations in choosing a profession).

But my concerns are more practical. I feel like the PhD application process might be more forgiving, but I don't want to have a PhD and not be able to find a stable job, which is part of the reason I chose medicine at first over the PhD. Medicine is more streamlined and you don't hear of doctors out of work, while the same cannot be said for the PhD (I guess, this is what I hear and this is what I want to know more about).

 

[dl2dp2]

To clarify: I feel I would be happy doing the work of either a medical doctor or a PhD scientist, as both are jobs that involve biomedical science and are mentally challenging and stimulating (these are my primary motivations in choosing a profession).

But my concerns are more practical. I feel like the PhD application process might be more forgiving, but I don't want to have a PhD and not be able to find a stable job, which is part of the reason I chose medicine at first over the PhD. Medicine is more streamlined and you don't hear of doctors out of work, while the same cannot be said for the PhD (I guess, this is what I hear and this is what I want to know more about).

While it is true that getting into a PhD program is easier, it's much harder to get a solid job after. If you have 4 waitlists, it seems that you are at least a good candidate for SOME medical schools. I'm aware of students turning down Harvard PhD programs to go to Robert Wood Johnson's medical school.

The calculus is a bit hard to do with your situation. It's very hard to know what a PhD entails until you do it. Most people hate it. Some people love it. I suggest you talk to more people before making any rash decisions.