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KnuxNole

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Regardless, you wouldn't tell that person to not insult his face. Replace troll face with saying he's fat, malnourished, lazy, smelly, whatever. Relax, and remember that it was ONE tiny insult. Also remember, that noone is going to stop calling people fat cause they read something from the internet from one person. The thread was still "professional" in what you asked for, which was that fat people will be fine in the interview season, with comments about maintaining good heath and talk about how in general fit people are looked at more favorably.

For all we know, this "ex-gf" could be the worst person in the world, and manatee is the nicest of insults that could have been described.
 
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Regardless, you wouldn't tell that person to not insult his face. Replace troll face with saying he's fat, malnourished, lazy, smelly, whatever. Relax, and remember that it was ONE tiny insult. Also remember, that noone is going to stop calling people fat cause they read something from the internet from one person. The thread was still "professional" in what you asked for, which was that fat people will be fine in the interview season, with comments about maintaining good heath and talk about how in general fit people are looked at more favorably.

For all we know, this "ex-gf" could be the worst person in the world, and manatee is the nicest of insults that could have been described.
For all we know this "ex-gf" could ACTUALLY BE A MANATEE. Ya never know!
 

TheLadyVanishes

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Um, ok, on the original topic - I went to 7 interviews last year and saw very few if any overweight/obese applicants. I've spent a lot of time in hospitals too and do not see many overweight/obese doctors or medical students. There are too many confounding variables, such as economic status (people in higher SES brackets are somewhat overrepresented in medical schools AND less likely to be overweight and obese), age (the applicants and residents that I have met are relatively young, and I believe older people are more likely to be overweight/obese) and the personality type that it takes for the medical admissions process and succeeding in medical school.

That being said, I have also seen MANY (if not most) medical school applicants, medical students or residents who do not look like models or celebrities, so fellow pre-meds, don't start panicking because you look average.
 

BurberryDoc

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Regardless, you wouldn't tell that person to not insult his face. Replace troll face with saying he's fat, malnourished, lazy, smelly, whatever. Relax, and remember that it was ONE tiny insult. Also remember, that noone is going to stop calling people fat cause they read something from the internet from one person. The thread was still "professional" in what you asked for, which was that fat people will be fine in the interview season, with comments about maintaining good heath and talk about how in general fit people are looked at more favorably.

For all we know, this "ex-gf" could be the worst person in the world, and manatee is the nicest of insults that could have been described.
Manatee-Tramp was sugar coating it, lol.
 

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In the interview attractiveness definitely has some pull. For job interviews the influence is most certainly greater than a med school interview (at least I hope). But I have talked to people who have literally said their weight has stopped them from getting certain jobs! So to excuse it as being non influential is ignorant--people are human and physical attraction is a primal instinct. I don't think people who are heavy/un attractive won't get into med school! Because clearly this isn't the case, but in a sample such as two female applicants vying for the same spot: if one is a Mila Cunha look-a-like and the other is pushing 300 pounds and assuming their stats ec's are identical--who do you think gets the spot? I would put my whole bank account on the Mila look-a-like. Do I think this is fair? No. But, this is the truth for the most part, and life isn't fair.
 
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In the interview attractiveness definitely has some pull. For job interviews the influence is most certainly greater than a med school interview (at least I hope). But I have talked to people who have literally said their weight has stopped them from getting certain jobs! So to excuse it as being non influential is ignorant--people are human and physical attraction is a primal instinct. I don't think people who are heavy/un attractive won't get into med school! Because clearly this isn't the case, but in a sample such as two female applicants vying for the same spot: if one is a Mila Cunha look-a-like and the other is pushing 300 pounds and assuming their stats ec's are identical--who do you think gets the spot? I would put my whole bank account on the Mila look-a-like. Do I think this is fair? No. But, this is the truth for the most part, and life isn't fair.
It is interesting that you used a female example. Do you think physical attractiveness is more important in female vs male applicants?
 

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It is interesting that you used a female example. Do you think physical attractiveness is more important in female vs male applicants?
I used the female example because I think the appearance thing is undoubtedly more significant with females in any interview setting. This is unfortunate, but there appearance is held to a higher standard than males for the most part. Think about it like this--in high school when I had a pimple noo big deal, didn't even think about it. Many girls I knew would freak out about a pimple, and they were actually judged on it. Another example for the post adolescense portion of life, such as 40's. A guy gets a bit of a beer gut, no big deal--he is just a guy "its normal.". A women starts getting a pot belly or thick thighs, she will be judged by other men and women! So yes, women's physical appearance takes more precedence over male's--at least in my opinion.
 

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If you are applying to medical school and overweight, you are certainly at a disadvantage. There's research on weight and job applicants, the same concept applies here. If you want every advantage you can possibly have in life, you need to take good care of your body and make yourself look as conventionally good as you possibly can. Looks offer a huge advantage in school, your career, and life. Do what you can to improve them, whether it's losing weight or dressing well, because human beings are hardwired to see discriminate based on apparent health and looks.
 
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If you are applying to medical school and overweight, you are certainly at a disadvantage. There's research on weight and job applicants, the same concept applies here. If you want every advantage you can possibly have in life, you need to take good care of your body and make yourself look as conventionally good as you possibly can. Looks offer a huge advantage in school, your career, and life. Do what you can to improve them, whether it's losing weight or dressing well, because human beings are hardwired to see discriminate based on apparent health and looks.
I can definitely see how severe morbid obesity would be looked at unfavorably. If I were an interviewer, I would be concerned about an applicant who appeared physically unhealthy and unable to keep up with the demands of medicine. However, I can't understand discriminating against a moderately overweight individual for whom weight is simply a cosmetic issue. I don't share this bias so it's difficult for me to understand that perspective.
 

TheWeeIceMan

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I can definitely see how severe morbid obesity would be looked at unfavorably. If I were an interviewer, I would be concerned about an applicant who appeared physically unhealthy and unable to keep up with the demands of medicine. However, I can't understand discriminating against a moderately overweight individual for whom weight is simply a cosmetic issue. I don't share this bias so it's difficult for me to understand that perspective.
I wouldn't call it discrimination. It's just a natural instict for people to react better to good looking people.
 
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Mad Jack

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I can definitely see how severe morbid obesity would be looked at unfavorably. If I were an interviewer, I would be concerned about an applicant who appeared physically unhealthy and unable to keep up with the demands of medicine. However, I can't understand discriminating against a moderately overweight individual for whom weight is simply a cosmetic issue. I don't share this bias so it's difficult for me to understand that perspective.
It is a subconscious bias. People use many of the same cues that are looked for in mate selection when determining the health and fitness of a person for just about everything. That's why taller men earn more than shorter ones, overweight women earn less than thin ones, attractive people earn more than... you get the picture. At least weight is something you can change. An unfortunate face or being too short just screw people in a way they are pretty much powerless to change.
 
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I wouldn't call it discrimination. It's just a natural instict for people to react better to good looking people.
"natural instincts" can, and do, fall under the spectrum of discrmination.
 

xffan624

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Further on the topic of unattractive people, I remember I took a medical school class during my MSPH (medical microbiology) and there was a guy in the medical student section of the class who was horribly burned on his face and presumably other parts of his body. Definitely unattractive, but I'm sure he had a interesting story and was able to overcome his unfortunate disfigurement and attend medical school.
 
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It is a subconscious bias. People use many of the same cues that are looked for in mate selection when determining the health and fitness of a person for just about everything. That's why taller men earn more than shorter ones, overweight women earn less than thin ones, attractive people earn more than... you get the picture. At least weight is something you can change. An unfortunate face or being too short just screw people in a way they are pretty much powerless to change.
you might be right. But, correlation does not = causation
 

TheWeeIceMan

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It is interesting that you used a female example. Do you think physical attractiveness is more important in female vs male applicants?
Would you have reacted the same way if BurberryDoc was calling a male a slob/manatee?

"natural instincts" can, and do, fall under the spectrum of discrmination.
Maybe it does, but I wouldn't put it on par with many other forms of discrimination.
 

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I'm not posting pictures of my slob ex-girlfriend. She goes to some D.O. school in Kansas City. Not sure if she is on SDN or not lol. She was one of those fat girls with a pretty face. In my defense, if I haven't gotten any in 6 months I am not accountable for who I kick it with.
hahahaha I respect you so much after this post.
 

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jesus Christ, is this thread still going? OP aka @jetsfan1234 , get off of your pedestal. Sorry that not everyone here is as self-consious or sensitive of the problem that you are concerned about. Time to let it go. If you don't like how this sample of your future physician colleagues view things, perhaps drop the ball on medicine and pursue a career in counseling where oversensitiveness is encouraged. You need thicker skin, otherwise every little thing that rubs you the wrong way will consume you.
 
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jesus Christ, is this thread still going? OP aka @jetsfan1234 , get off of your pedestal. Sorry that not everyone here is as self-consious or sensitive of the problem that you are concerned about. Time to let it go. If you don't like how this sample of your future physician colleagues view things, perhaps drop the ball on medicine and pursue a career in counseling where oversensitiveness is encouraged. You need thicker skin, otherwise every little thing that rubs you the wrong way will consume you.
This thread is still going partly due to trolls such as yourself. If you don't have anything positive or intelligent to add...zip it. Seems like that's nearly impossible for you. Try harder.
 

BurberryDoc

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This thread is still going partly due to trolls such as yourself. If you don't have anything positive or intelligent to add...zip it. Seems like that's nearly impossible for you. Try harder.

LOL. I am a troll? Okay, whatever you say. Since you're giving unsolicited advice, I'll give you some unsolicited advice - put down the fork. Try harder.

 
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LOL. I am a troll? Okay, whatever you say. Since you're giving unsolicited advice, I'll give you some unsolicited advice - put down the fork. Try harder.
Heyyyyyyyy now.............. :-/
 

Pacna

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My penis-observing days are long since over, but I've heard that some penii have a natural curve. I'd google that, but no.
I can confirm this.
 

487806

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This thread is still going partly due to trolls such as yourself. If you don't have anything positive or intelligent to add...zip it. Seems like that's nearly impossible for you. Try harder.
Yeah okay. You basically exploded and lashed out at people for no particular reason, and when they apologize, you still attack them for being unprofessional and call them a pig. OP, you lost your credibility.
 

KnuxNole

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OMG, how dare she call someone a pig. It's their lifestyle choice!
 
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Intrinsic biases are much harder to fix. I'm sure you have a "type" of person you would rather date and a "type" you wouldn't. Those are internal biases. Same thing with reacting more favorably to more attractive people. We can all preach how we want everything to be equal, but there are some things we are not aware of that happen on a subconscious level.
 
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In addition to the Watson quote above, for those saying that graduate and professional admissions do not hinge (even a bit) on weight and fatism, consider the following:

1) Outrage as NYU professor tweets that obese PhD students 'don't have the willpower for the academic program'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...bese-PhD-students-dont-willpower-program.html

2)
Obesity (Silver Spring). 2013 May;21(5):918-20. doi: 10.1002/oby.20171.
Weight bias in graduate school admissions.
Burmeister JM, Kiefner AE, Carels RA, Musher-Eizenman DR.
Author information

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Whether weight bias occurs in the graduate school admissions process is explored here. Specifically, we examined whether body mass index (BMI) was related to letter of recommendation quality and the number of admissions offers applicants received after attending in-person interviews.

DESIGN AND METHODS:
Participants were 97 applicants to a psychology graduate program at a large university in the United States. They reported height, weight, and information about their applications to psychology graduate programs. Participants' letters of recommendation were coded for positive and negative statements as well as overall quality.

RESULTS:
Higher BMI significantly predicted fewer post-interview offers of admission into psychology graduate programs. Results also suggest this relationship is stronger for female applicants. BMI was not related to overall quality or the number of stereotypically weight-related adjectives in letters of recommendation. Surprisingly, higher BMI was related to more positive adjectives in letters.

CONCLUSIONS:
The first evidence that individuals interviewing applicants to graduate programs may systematically favor thinner applicants is provided here. A conscious or unconscious bias against applicants with extra body weight is a plausible explanation. Stereotype threat and social identity threat are also discussed as explanations for the relationship between BMI and interview success.

Copyright © 2012 The Obesity Society.

PMID:

23784894

[PubMed - in process]
 

Shjanzey

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In This Thread:

OP Finds out the Internet is full of people who joke about fat people.
OP Finds out Pre-Allo isn't professional at all
OP Rage Quits SDN

The following is an example of just how unruly the Internet can be. Thankfully we here at SDN hold ourselves to a higher standard of criticism.

 
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Intrinsic biases are much harder to fix. I'm sure you have a "type" of person you would rather date and a "type" you wouldn't. Those are internal biases. Same thing with reacting more favorably to more attractive people. We can all preach how we want everything to be equal, but there are some things we are not aware of that happen on a subconscious level.
It seems that you (and others on this thread) believe that lookism is something that we should simply accept, and not attempt to address, on the basis that it is a "natural instinct." is this correct?
 

TheWeeIceMan

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Do you believe that fat people should be a protected class?
 
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Do you believe that fat people should be a protected class?
Well, look at the posts in this thread. You have a resident (!) arguing that jokes about fat patients are hilarious. Considering the cruelty and insensitivity that this topic has revealed in people...maybe.
 

487806

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Well, look at the posts in this thread. You have a resident (!) arguing that jokes about fat patients are hilarious. Considering the cruelty and insensitivity that this topic has revealed in people...maybe.
I think you should get off your high horse and have some perspective (and possibly a much thicker skin). You're assuming that many of us never experienced obesity in our lives and that's blatantly false.
 

SouthernSurgeon

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I think you should get off your high horse and have some perspective (and possibly a much thicker skin). You're assuming that many of us never experienced obesity in our lives and that's blatantly false.
I've actually found that a lot of people who were once overweight and are now thin are among the most judgmental when it comes to obesity. I think it's because they (a) have a mindset of "I did it, so you should be able to as well" and (b) have spent years hating their appearance and subconsciously associate fat with that sense of self-loathing, so they redirect that self-loathing onto others.
 

487806

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I've actually found that a lot of people who were once overweight and are now thin are among the most judgmental when it comes to obesity. I think it's because they (a) have a mindset of "I did it, so you should be able to as well" and (b) have spent years hating their appearance and subconsciously associate fat with that sense of self-loathing, so they redirect that self-loathing onto others.
Yeah, that's just a small element of a much broader occurrence.
 

KnuxNole

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I'm surprised the op is so shocked, it's not like the medical profession is devoid of this at all, like I said, you'll see attendings bash fatties every single day.
 

487806

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I'm surprised the op is so shocked, it's not like the medical profession is devoid of this at all, like I said, you'll see attendings bash fatties every single day.
But OP clearly stated that medicine (starting from preallo on) is a PROFESSIONAL journey, so everyone should be professionals, mature, neutral, helpful, altruistic superheroes. So, by OP's arguments, those attendings should be locked away for a long, long time for making fat jokes. Keep representing fat people OP, and assuming that we don't have any experiences with them!
 
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I'm surprised the op is so shocked, it's not like the medical profession is devoid of this at all, like I said, you'll see attendings bash fatties every single day.
You keep saying this, as if the fact that some doctors "bash fatties" somehow makes it right. Lots of doctors cheat on their spouses, is that also okay with you?

I'm shocked by the lack of critical thinking here.

Btw, I work with many doctors, and the ones who routinely "bash fatties" are also incidentally the ones who seem most unhappy with themselves and their careers.
 
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You keep saying this, as if the fact that some doctors "bash fatties" somehow makes it right. Lots of doctors cheat on their spouses, is that also okay with you?

I'm shocked by the lack of critical thinking here.

Btw, I work with many doctors, and the ones who routinely "bash fatties" are also incidentally the ones who seem most unhappy with themselves and their careers.
"Bashing fatties" (lmao at that phrase, though) isn't okay. It's not. We can all agree on this.

BUT - what are you looking for here, OP? You want us to hold your hand, and tell you that being evidently overweight isn't a problem - and that it won't, even on some subconscious level, potentially affect your application? Wake up, sweetheart. There are 10^6 ways of becoming healthier, and becoming proactive about your image. Instead of searching for a bastion of safety on SDN, realize that reality can be harsh, and make efforts to improve yourself.
 

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It seems that you (and others on this thread) believe that lookism is something that we should simply accept, and not attempt to address, on the basis that it is a "natural instinct." is this correct?
Can't say that I do, because "lookism" isn't a real thing.

Really I think we've reached the apex of liberal relativism here. Now, even equal treatment isn't enough. The radicals demand that even our brains be scrubbed clean of any infidelity to the PC cause. The moment you find a person unattractive, BOOM! THAT'S LOOKISM BUDDY!

For the love of god, please take your stupid ideas about aesthetic thoughtcrime back to the Jezebel comment pages because nobody here wants to see that. Thanks.
 
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I like to attribute my interview relaxation to knowing that I look great in heels and a well cut suit ;)

As someone who never worked out until last spring, I will say it - get up off that couch and hit the gym, stop blaming the world, OP! I learned in the last year that there is literally no excuse for not being healthy, genes play a role, but just about anyone can get to a heathy weight through a bit of hard work and a lot of discipline. Work 12 hours a day like I do? Hit the gym at 6am!
 
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I like to attribute my interview relaxation to knowing that I look great in heels and a well cut suit ;)

As someone who never worked out until last spring, I will say it - get up off that couch and hit the gym, stop blaming the world, OP! I learned in the last year that there is literally no excuse for not being healthy, genes play a role, but just about anyone can get to a heathy weight through a bit of hard work and a lot of discipline. Work 12 hours a day like I do? Hit the gym at 6am!
Lol. No really, I laughed out loud at this. Not because of the content, but because of how ridiculously smug you sound. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are very young.
 

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Obesity is a disease now for a reason. I actually happen to work with overweight and obese individuals and getting them to lose weight is extremely difficult. Most research show that loss from almost any dietary and exercise intervention will eventually be reversed.

Not arguing with anybody, just saying...
 
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