Weighting of Internal Rankings

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CoffeeWithdrawal

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I attend a school that has Pass/Fail system, though they do internally rank our class. I was curious if anybody knew how much internal rankings during our preclinical years play into our ability to get into residency programs down the road. I am not adjusting as well to remote learning as I would have liked to, so I'm not as happy with my grades as I would like to be. I'm also especially nervous since Step 1 will be Pass/Fail for my year as well. Anyone have any insight?

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Assuming your school is a "true pass/fail" system, then these internal rankings should not matter for your residency application. The only caveat I will add is that many schools that have a pass/fail system will keep internal rankings/shadow grades/etc, which play into your class quartile. Some schools may publish this (in your MSPE, for instance), which could affect residency applications.

Further, how you do on med school unit exams tends to predict how you do on USMLE exams. In other words, even if two students score a 71% vs a 98% on exam receive a "pass", continuation of these scores tend to correlate with USMLE exams.
 
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My school is truly P/F but they use score for MsPE percentile and AOA, which is extremely important for competitive and top programs...not all schools have AOA...so it is important for you to find out. Multiple times during my interview AOA came up.
 
My school is truly P/F but they use score for MsPE percentile and AOA, which is extremely important for competitive and top programs...not all schools have AOA...so it is important for you to find out. Multiple times during my interview AOA came up.

How is that a true P/F if they're using grades for ranks and AOA? True P/F doesn't take preclinical grades into account at all
 
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If your school is only P/F in the preclinical years and goes back to H/HP/P during clinical rotations, I wouldn't worry too much about the preclinical results. At my school, quartiles and AOA are heavily skewed towards the clinical years. If the person internally/shadow ranked #1 through preclinicals is only getting P or HP during rotations, that person's internal rank is going to drop like a rock from how things are weighed. That is, because it's P/F in the preclinical years, the internal rank #1 meant nothing.
 
How is that a true P/F if they're using grades for ranks and AOA? True P/F doesn't take preclinical grades into account at all
I posted it...then I was lazy to edit it hahahah...but on transcript, it is all P/F...except on MSPE they report percentile and use scores for AOA.
 
If your school is only P/F in the preclinical years and goes back to H/HP/P during clinical rotations, I wouldn't worry too much about the preclinical results. At my school, quartiles and AOA are heavily skewed towards the clinical years. If the person internally/shadow ranked #1 through preclinicals is only getting P or HP during rotations, that person's internal rank is going to drop like a rock from how things are weighed. That is, because it's P/F in the preclinical years, the internal rank #1 meant nothing.
Just want to add...depend on school...some schools have junior and senior AOA. Junior AOA depend on preclinical...Senior AOA depend on both preclinical and clinical...but my school preclinical still weight more...Your best bet is to find out your school system.
 
I attend a school that has Pass/Fail system, though they do internally rank our class. I was curious if anybody knew how much internal rankings during our preclinical years play into our ability to get into residency programs down the road. I am not adjusting as well to remote learning as I would have liked to, so I'm not as happy with my grades as I would like to be. I'm also especially nervous since Step 1 will be Pass/Fail for my year as well. Anyone have any insight?
It will depend on 3 things:

1. Your medical school: Internal ranking probably means at less prestigious schools (i.e. state schools) because the whole purpose of internal ranking is to reward those who worked very hard and rose to the cream of the crop in a competitive environment to give its best students a chance at top places. That said, if you're consistently average/below average at this point, I would not kill yourself mentally if you have reached a peak. The preclinical material is always good to know, but not as important as what comes next.

2. How the internal rankings figures into other things you may care about (MSPE, AOA designation). The internal ranking often comes into play when the school writes your MSPE (Medical School Performance Evaluation). They often have coded words (Outstanding, Excellent, Very Good, Good) which represent the quartiles/quintiles at schools. The MSPE plays a significant part of how schools interpret how competitive you are for residency as they are an attempt to give you a class rank and most residency programs won't look at your application until they see the MSPE. You need to figure out how the pre-clinical work will factor into your MSPE. Also, AOA is a competitive distinction earned by top students. Having AOA on your CV is a major boost to your application. For mortals like myself, that shipped sailed early on in medical school, but look into it if it matters for you.

3. Last and most obvious is the competitiveness of your field. Many fields or programs within fields have 25-50% of its students having AOA or being in the top part of their class. The sad truth of it is that in medical school everything matters. There are just some things that matter more.

4. I understand the notion that Step 1 being P/F is creating an internal pressure to excel elsewhere. I will say that I do not think adcoms will default to your pre-clinical grades (if they are able to separate them from your overall rank) next. There are just too many other factors (clinical grades, Step 2, narrative evaluations, letters, research/perceived interest in the field) that translate better to residency success than whether or not you know what a zinc linked DNA zipper is

Best of luck. If you're not excelling early on in med school, they key is to just do your best and not let it affect the next place you have to excel (second year grades, clinical work, so on).
 
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The sad truth of it is that in medical school everything matters. There are just some things that matter more
100% this right here. As others have stated, for competitive specialities (Derm, surgical subspecialities) and/or top institutions, AOA and class rank matter. At my school, class rank in MSPE is determined solely from clinical grades, but pre-clinical grades and ECs (leadership and volunteering) are used for AOA eligibility. This is probably the only reason to care about pre-clinical grades at my institution.

Find out if pre-clincal grades are not factored into AOA or MSPE class rank. If not, focus on other things that will matter: research, ECs you care about, wellness, hobbies etc.
 
My school does Pass/Fail/Honors and doesn't rank supposedly. Admins said the only thing they use Honors for is determining who gets AOA.
 
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