Welcome to the new era of MEGA D.O Schools™

[fldoctorgirl]

Hi after reading this thread I feel really worried. I have a 3.8 sGPA and a 4.0 non science GPA. My MCAT was a blemish at 506(127/125/127/127). I have 5 DO acceptances. And am on the waitlist for 3 MD schools.
I choose DMU since it’s an established school. I have been studying to retake the MCAT but my May date got cancelled because of COVID 19.
should I take a post bacc and reapply or should I be okay coming from DMU. I am only 23 and have time on my hands. Please some sound advice would be good, this thread has scared me ****less. And my parents (who I am living with at the moment) are pushing for DO and are saying they will not support me anymore if I do not go to a DO school.

Hey OP. Just wanted to chime on as someone who was almost the exact same applicant as you: I applied with a 3.87 cGPA and a 506 MCAT. I too had ~5-6 DO acceptances (don't remember lol) and I was on the WL for my state MD. I was also pretty young, younger than you are now. I likely could have done better on an MCAT retake and might've had better luck if I had waited a cycle and re-applied. However, I just wanted to start my life already and really couldn't fathom taking a year off. I also knew I wanted IM or FM or maybe ob/gyn, so I wasn't super worried. I am happy with my decision overall. There are days when OMM kills me, but other than that I feel my experience would have been the same at any school (I go to one of the "established" DO schools).

I would suggest that if you're always going to wonder "what if", or if you think you may want a more competitive speciality, roll the dice and re-apply. If you just want to get the show on the road, DMU is a fine choice. It's a really personal decision and no one person can advise you on what the right path for your life is.

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[Whysoez]

One thing to consider is Step 1 p/f "might" not happen to the class of 2024 but almost certain that it will be implemented when c/o 2025 takes it. Risk of the rest of Steps going p/f is still there, so get in as fast as you can and crush those Steps with a numerical number grade.

 

[Isoval]

One thing to consider is Step 1 p/f "might" not happen to the class of 2024 but almost certain that it will be implemented when c/o 2025 takes it. Risk of the rest of Steps going p/f is still there, so get in as fast as you can and crush those Steps with a numerical number grade.

This will be interesting to see.

The thing is, nobody knows what the hell is planned for P/F. People seem to be heart-set that "the entire exam is going P/F in two years because that's what the announcement said", but in reality, NBME nor FSMB have any idea yet what they're going to do.

This could mean that student reports become P/F while PDs receive regularly-scored reports.
It could mean the opposite - student reports will be scored while PDs receive P/F reports.
This could also mean some form of H/P/F.
Maybe it won't come for five more years.

All of these technically satisfy the loose declaration that has already been made.

The only thing we really know is that, because it came out on NBME letterhead, it's almost definitely going to happen in some form. What form that will end up being, who knows?

 

[BTR41]

I really appreciate all the input. It’s a big decision and I am more leaning towards DMU. But you all have given me a lot to think about. I really appreciate it.

 

[zNoodlez]

This will be interesting to see.

The thing is, nobody knows what the hell is planned for P/F. People seem to be heart-set that "the entire exam is going P/F in two years because that's what the announcement said", but in reality, NBME nor FSMB have any idea yet what they're going to do.

This could mean that student reports become P/F while PDs receive regularly-scored reports.
It could mean the opposite - student reports will be scored while PDs receive P/F reports.
This could also mean some form of H/P/F.
Maybe it won't come for five more years.

All of these technically satisfy the loose declaration that has already been made.

The only thing we really know is that, because it came out on NBME letterhead, it's almost definitely going to happen in some form. What form that will end up being, who knows?

Possibly, however always plans for the worst, and the worst is Step 1 P/F for c/o 2024, all steps go p/f a year after that.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I guess you expect the person to lie whenever at their MD interviews they are asked if they have ever been accepted to any medical school.

Edit: to add DO schools don't communicate acceptances to each other, but MD schools do through AMCAS (just in case someone is reading this). So don't do what @hallowmann is proposing with MD schools!!!

Seriously? We get lied to all the time. "Why do you want to be a DO?" I want to have OMM in my toolbox to treat patients, or I like OMM and the holistic approach. There are more than a few in our class who jut wanted to be a doctor and told me what they thought I wanted to hear, regardless if it was truthful. Want proof? Just look at the numerous posts from students railing about OMM and having to learn it.

 

[mathnerd88]

Seriously? We get lied to all the time. "Why do you want to be a DO?" I want to have OMM in my toolbox to treat patients, or I like OMM and the holistic approach. There are more than a few in our class who jut wanted to be a doctor and told me what they thought I wanted to hear, regardless if it was truthful. Want proof? Just look at the numerous posts from students railing about OMM and having to learn it.

The usual complaints of OMM I see on the forums are about cranial. Also, lying about liking OMM or the holistic approach is something that can't be proved (it's subjective and premeds genuinely at the time may be interested in it) vs lying about being accepted to a medical school.

The crappy part is if a lie was actually exposed and proven, then it destroys the candidate's credibility about anything they've said, and thus risks acceptance.

 

[deleted936470]

I think I want OMM in my tool box / I like the holistic approach ≠ I will use OMM in my daily practice and will look forward to 3+ hours per week of OMM lab. I think people become disillusioned with it but several applicants are genuinely curious (at first).

 

[DO2015CA]

Sorry, late to the thread. When it comes to matching into a residency, won't an increase in medical students predominantly effect IMGs and not domestic MD and DO students?

Things do not work in vacuums. DOs will also be affected.

 

[TwistedTea]

Sorry, late to the thread. When it comes to matching into a residency, won't an increase in medical students predominantly effect IMGs and not domestic MD and DO students?

It effects everyone especially if you perform poorly. Many programs will take good FMG over crappy DO applicants. More DO applicants doesn’t make things easier for anyone.

 

[Coffee&Scrubs26]

How are they going to determine if a student is crappy with everything being pass/fail?


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[libertyyne]

How are they going to determine if a student is crappy with everything being pass/fail?


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step 2.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

How are they going to determine if a student is crappy with everything being pass/fail?


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Class rank, class fail/remediation, repeated a year, clinical grades, level/step 2, or a level/step 1 failure, dean's letter, SLOE/letters of rec...There are many things they can use.

 

[PhillyDoc24]

Now multiply those numbers by the tuition - the amounts are staggering.
Just because you are a non-profit, doesn't mean that you are thinking about revenue.

 

[Goro]

Now multiply those numbers by the tuition - the amounts are staggering.
Just because you are a non-profit, doesn't mean that you are thinking about revenue.

There's a reason why I say that DO schools are cash cows.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

There's a reason why I say that DO schools are cash cows.

Most medical schools are cash cows.

 

[Goro]

Most medical schools are cash cows.

Actually, with most MD schools, teaching med students is a money loser. All those clinical faculty and pesky LCME requirements. And don't forget all the support structure. One school has an entire dept' devoted to generating exams.

A decent Pathology or Physiology dep't can make more in NIH grant indirects than an entire Class of students paying tuition.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Actually, with most MD schools, teaching med students is a money loser. All those clinical faculty and pesky LCME requirements. And don't forget all the support structure. One school has an entire dept' devoted to generating exams.

A decent Pathology or Physiology dep't can make more in NIH grant indirects than an entire Class of students paying tuition.

Not to mention the monolithic universities who own a full city block of buildings they must maintain.

 

[libertyyne]

I didn't lie. I like OMM and the holistic idea (although I don't think holistic is exclusive to DO all good doctors should be holistic and I bet all MD school educate their student holistically). I am a believer in OMT it is not quack. and it is somehow related to my culture. the thing I don't like is that these DO schools don't put emphasis on all kinds of research and have no intention to raise funding to do things. Don't they know DO is looked down on because they don't do research? it is insane that established schools like KCU or DMU has almost 0 research (especially KCU has nothing). Another thing I don't like is that DO students need to take two boards it is a stupid idea that people need to distract their energy in dealing with two things at one time. if i were the head of DO world I would get rid of COMPLEX and have everyone takes USLME also, this is the real way to make DO students stand out to show that DO can educate students as well as MD and IMG schools.

believing in something doesnt make it objectively more efficacious. Homeopaths believe that their medicines work. and some people believe 5G causes covid.

 

[libertyyne]

so? I believe other alternative medicine like cupping, acupuncture, herb, and even chiropractic. i don't say i believe them so they are efficacious. but these alternatives exist because they work out sometimes when mainstream medicine doesn't work out. Can you explain why? No, it is impossible to explain a lot of things. Like Dr. OZ is criticized as pseudoscience advocate but no one questions his expertise in cardiac surgery I guess. the main problem is not DO schools teach OMM (just look into some top-notch university and many of them have a department of alternative medicine and they also do research in these fields. does anyone look it down? probably no), it is people outside the DO world have a stereotype that DOs don't get involved in scientific investigation other than training PCP or keep promoting OMM, and DO schools have no means to correct this situation. we have to admit that research power = reputation

1.appeal to authority doesnt work. Just because there is a department at some name brand universities around alternative medicine doesnt mean it actually works. There are many people that criticize these alterntive medicine quacks and even the name brand organizations that have them. Just because some rich person is willing to pay for reiki and some organizations will sell the quackery to them doesnt make the quackery more acceptable or good.

2. You say they are not efficacious yet work sometimes. Lol. Or you know patients got well on their own without any intervention.

3. Do schools should be organizing research, i never said they shouldnt.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I didn't lie. I like OMM and the holistic idea (although I don't think holistic is exclusive to DO all good doctors should be holistic and I bet all MD school educate their student holistically). I am a believer in OMT it is not quack. and it is somehow related to my culture. the thing I don't like is that these DO schools don't put emphasis on all kinds of research and have no intention to raise funding to do things. Don't they know DO is looked down on because they don't do research? it is insane that established schools like KCU or DMU has almost 0 research (especially KCU has nothing). Another thing I don't like is that DO students need to take two boards it is a stupid idea that people need to distract their energy in dealing with two things at one time. if i were the head of DO world I would get rid of COMPLEX and have everyone takes USLME also, this is the real way to make DO students stand out to show that DO can educate students as well as MD and IMG schools.

First of all, it's COMLEX (I don't know why people always say COMPLEX). Second, many schools have research programs. It may not be extensive like it is at big universities, but we do have some research. I remember interviewing at KCU and students told me they do get involved with research at their school. The school I'm attending right now has an entire floor dedicated to research, and stipend programs to encourage students that want to do research. One of our faculty even received an NIH grant. 3rd thing I wanted to say is that DOs don't need to take two exams to graduate because you make it sound like they are forced to do so. Only about 50% of DOs take the USMLE step 1 every year by choice, mostly because they're trying to be more competitive on paper due to the bias that exist at some residency programs (or because some programs that are only used to USMLE cannot interpret COMLEX). And even if we have to take 2 exams, it's not like we studying for 2 different exams either. The 2 (USMLE and COMLEX) are covering the same materials except for OMM. For those of us that take both, we usually just prepare for USMLE and take it, then cram OMM in between and take COMLEX.

 

[Goro]

I was accepted into KCU and most likely to attend however it doesn't really have research, it has a basics science research facility but pretty much inaccessible for its students because of no enough funding or resources. KCU students do get involved in research but most likely in the other two state schools in the city. DMU although it has a bigger research department. but when you compare these schools to the majority of MD schools it is pretty much nothing regarding research activity also given the number of students enrolled. For the board exam, you just pointed out the issue that only 50% Dos take the USLME. if DOs really want to get rid of the discrimination is to show they can be as compatible as the counterpart, and one good way is to take something standardized. If everyone has dedicated time to study USLME as DO students, and scores similar or even above US MDs do you think people will still look down DOs? probably still, but not as much as now. OMM can still be in a type of exam for graduation purposes but not in the board exam.
btw i just found you are in ARCOM I was accepted there early this cycle. i was impressed to see that this new school is really dedicating to research development, it would be a change in the DO world if every school has the same goal. I remember the ARCOM president told us on the interview date that his plan eventually is to have a new building that is higher than 10 stories and is exclusive for research and he foresees this to make ARCOM one of the best medical school in the country.

Deans are paid to lie