Werewolf in the Garden of Good & Evil - Game Thread

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Like. I. Said. The only time I'm 100% clear to that dude is when he's wolfing. @Navilly
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It's rare to find a seering variation that catches my interest so thank you @PippyPony for implementing this version in a game allowing me to fiddle with it.
 
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Stagg737 said:
You shall finally understand when you make to the endgame of a wolf victory (did you do this in Underwwear? Idr, lol) when you practically have people hard-vouching for you.
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I won that game as a wolf, yeah. But bragging about winning (or I guess losing?) has never and will prob never be my thing lol

Also even though the game was over by d4 hopefully we gave you some entertainment. I have to say, the highlight for me was to see how consistently excited stagg was and how coop was questioning things even at the end <3
 
Superlatives?? Or is our punishment for bitching that we all get a C+?
 
@PippyPony , @cubsrule4e , @johnnaboo , thanks for the game! Even if it wasn't perfect it was a lot of fun seeing some new roles and I hope to see some of them come back in the future :)

ziggyandjazzy said:
I won that game as a wolf, yeah. But bragging about winning (or I guess losing?) has never and will prob never be my thing lol

Also even though the game was over by d4 hopefully we gave you some entertainment. I have to say, the highlight for me was to see how consistently excited stagg was and how coop was questioning things even at the end <3
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Imo, the brag is only really going to feel great if no one suspected you because it's not really about bragging, it's about all the WTF reactions. Like if Paws had been a wolf this game it would have been epic.

I'll also admit once this turned into a true logic puzzle I got super excited and broke the "new Stagg" meta. I just couldn't resist it.
 
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Thanks for the game mods I had fun. I think I'll stay away for a bit though, we can have too much of a good thing right? I'll wait for a few really good ones.
 
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Real talk, I submitted to kill myself two nights ago, as I figured that would end it with Barkley likely going to be night killed (had figured at that point dolphin was the killer based off of the name wolf’s bane). But then Barkley was like “nah, I want to get a kill in” and forced me to keep playing and changed the night action after I had gone to sleep. And then coopah was doing so well defending me, I decided to at least roll with it for half a second, even though I had literally shown it was mechanistic checkmate for us 2 days prior.

For me being absent 90% of this game, I am super proud of all of my fellow wolves, we demolished village from a reads perspective, we just got screwed in terms of mechanics. We kept up such good separation too. Genny needed to leave the country, and asked for an early bus. Hence me intentionally almost killing her. Yes, that was real, not a lie.
 
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Navilly said:
Real talk, I submitted to kill myself two nights ago, as I figured that would end it with Barkley likely going to be night killed (had figured at that point dolphin was the killer based off of the name wolf’s bane). But then Barkley was like “nah, I want to get a kill in” and forced me to keep playing and changed the night action after I had gone to sleep. And then coopah was doing so well defending me, I decided to at least roll with it for half a second, even though I had literally shown it was mechanistic checkmate for us 2 days prior.
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tl;dr Barks is another descendant who doesn't think wolfing is torturous.
 
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Moving this to the thread since dead chat is full --

Stagg737 said:
I love solving mechanics, it's like a side-mission that just gives personal satisfaction if I correctly solve something.
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Same.

Although, somewhat ironically, I think I do best with that in semi-open set ups with somewhat standard roles, whereas the games I run typically have a closed set up with very non-standard roles. I should probably make some that are more like that. (Also, having a game with fewer notifications makes for much faster closing, which is another thing I struggle with)

Stagg737 said:
Overall I think ya'll had a solid game and got screwed a bit. I would have voted Barks and Navi, but I don't think I would have voted Genny/Zig and am apparently perpetually confused and awful at reading you. Even so, there were enough weird village happenings that I think it could have turned out much different if Paws hadn't dropped the info bomb.
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I agree. I do think wolves had a very good game from a tone perspective. And I also think they got screwed in the end by mechanics, and it's very tough to stay motivated after that happens.

On the flipside, they knew a lot of the roles that were out there and used their roles primarily within their own pack instead of letting them take care of villagers for them. And if Paws and MSU had been NK'd earlier, or blocked, things might have worked out differently.

With 4 wolves and extra village deaths, this game could have hit lylo by like D3, which is more than a little terrifying haha.

If I put crazy extra death roles like this into a game again, it would be a much bigger game, I'd add extra healers on both sides, and I'd probably delay the time to death by an additional day.

If Lawper had been lynched or killed at any point, all the extra kills would have been gone from the game. In this case, it was very good for village that he wasn't killed because @dolphin106258 had her shots -- and as she so correctly pointed out, she single-handedly took out half the wolf pack lol.

I also really didn't expect @Mad Jack to use his role as frequently as he did, so note to self that I definitely need to put mega restrictions on a role like that. It could be pretty bomb (pun sorta intended) as a one-shot village role that only worked on wolves, though.

That said, even though he used it aggressively, I think he did better with his role than people are giving him credit for. He targeted himself N1 after revealing (if it were me, I might've done N2 but I saw where he was going with that) ...and if Mel had actually read his role description (*cough*), then I don't think he would have ended up getting hit with it.

MJ also caught Mutts with his trap when he targeted Paws, but Mutts got shot anyways so it didn't matter.

For anyone who was asking about AM's role and how that worked...she could set 3 watcher traps. When they were triggered, she'd get the names of any players who visited her target on the night it was triggered, so it was basically just a watcher role that required some advanced planning. She was blockable on both the trap setting nights and the results nights. She was not caught by MJ when she set the trap on Paws because she had set it up the night before. If she had targeted Paws that night, she would have been a contender for dying.

I like roles that require some foresight, and so I liked her role & genny/ziggy's role quite a lot. I also liked @Ms Procrastinator 's role, and may use that again, perhaps with a different type of buff.

Ms P -- the "weird messaging" you got with your death was in reference to what killed you. Maybe someone here can help you figure it out? ;)
 
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Mad Jack said:
I'm just kidding, it's really not a big deal. I just couldn't post anything because of the rules, so I did what I could to grind your gears lol
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I took it in good humor until the 20,000 angry reactions lol I thought you were pissed at that point. I am very glad you are not going to hate me forever :D
 
Animal Midwife said:
It's rare to find a seering variation that catches my interest so thank you @PippyPony for implementing this version in a game allowing me to fiddle with it.
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you mean one that gave you the entire pack? ;)
PippyPony said:
If Lawper had been lynched or killed at any point, all the extra kills would have been gone from the game. In this case, it was very good for village that he wasn't killed because @dolphin106258 had her shots -- and as she so correctly pointed out, she single-handedly took out half the wolf pack lol.
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Lawper's death would've had no impact on the game at that point though. Like I pointed out in wolf chat, regardless if dolph died or stayed alive, the game was mechanically over regardless. Dolph just allowed the inevitable to be sped up
PippyPony said:
For anyone who was asking about AM's role and how that worked...she could set 3 watcher traps. When they were triggered, she'd get the names of any players who visited her target on the night it was triggered, so it was basically just a watcher role that required some advanced planning. She was blockable on both the trap setting nights and the results nights. She was not caught by MJ when she set the trap on Paws because she had set it up the night before. If she had targeted Paws that night, she would have been a contender for dying.
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So AM wouldn't have been caught in MJ's trap?

Can you explain to me why paws wasn't poisoned by nav even if she acted on him the same night as Msp? or why no one was notified of her actions?
PippyPony said:
?
Click to expand...
I think he meant bc he couldn't post on thread
 
Lawper said:
I have to admit that wolves did a great job here and they would have likely won if the mechanics didn't go against them in D4/N4. So good job @Navilly @muttmanager @Barkley13 @genny @ziggyandjazzy you guys played well.
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Oh yes, I might've talked myself into a mutts lynch (which people already were on board for) but definitely not Genny/ziggy until those mechanics came into play. I think I defended more wolves than I caught this game :laugh: but you know that balances out my last village game where I pegged every wolf and died early
 
ziggyandjazzy said:
Lawper's death would've had no impact on the game at that point though. Like I pointed out in wolf chat, regardless if dolph died or stayed alive, the game was mechanically over regardless. Dolph just allowed the inevitable to be sped up
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Yes. I was not talking about after D4 in this particular game layout. I am talking in general about how things might have played out differently with this set up had other people been killed/lynched or had other players made different choices. There is more than one potential way a game with 20 players can unfold.

ziggyandjazzy said:
So AM wouldn't have been caught in MJ's trap?
Click to expand...
Not on that particular night. On the night she placed the watcher trap, she would have been caught if MJ had also targeted Paws the same night (although, not guaranteed - if more than 1 player targeted MJ's target, the person who was caught was RNGed from all of them).

ziggyandjazzy said:
Can you explain to me why paws wasn't poisoned by nav even if she acted on him the same night as Msp? or why no one was notified of her actions?
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Because like a good number of the roles in this game about insentient plants, she was passive and didn't act on anyone directly. Her information was mod-given, not a player choice. It is this role, which is a variant of a Parity Seer (other variants of which I have used in the past without issues) and may be known by other names in other settings.
 
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Animal Midwife said:
Sure. Gotta kill and/or block the threats before they can solve the whole game.
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I don't like a seering mechanic that can solve the entire game just by existing, without skill used. that's just me. I wouldn't like it if I was village either :shrug:
PippyPony said:
Because like a good number of the roles in this game about insentient plants, she was passive and didn't act on anyone directly. Her information was mod-given, not a player choice. It is this role, which is a variant of a Parity Seer (variants of which I have used in the past without issues) and may be known by other names in other settings.
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"On Full Moon nights, you will get two names, at least one of which is good." so did paws misinterpret her role or did you use it differently than this?
 
Lawper said:
I have to admit that wolves did a great job here and they would have likely won if the mechanics didn't go against them in D4/N4. So good job @Navilly @muttmanager @Barkley13 @genny @ziggyandjazzy you guys played well.
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A bunch of villagers also did a very good job. And there was excellent use of PMs to establish village blocks.

All in all, I would probably call it a draw if people (@Animal Midwife ) were to go about calculating win percentages ;)
 
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ziggyandjazzy said:
I don't like a seering mechanic that can solve the entire game just by existing, without skill used. that's just me. I wouldn't like it if I was village either :shrug:
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There was definitely some skill involved. She could have been too sketchy and had dolphin kill her (losing two extremely valuable villagers in one go), been mislynched since some were tossing her name around on thread, or night killed for revealing too earlier with the first set of results. Clearly the wolves thought Paws was sketchy too and let her live for days after spearheading a wolf lynch D1.

As and Paws mentioned a couple days ago, it was a completely intentional strategy.
 
ziggyandjazzy said:
I don't like a seering mechanic that can solve the entire game just by existing, without skill used. that's just me. I wouldn't like it if I was village either :shrug:

"On Full Moon nights, you will get two names, at least one of which is good." so did paws misinterpret her role or did you use it differently than this?
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She interpreted it the way I wrote it, which was very close to that linked description but not exactly the same.

Honestly, I'm pretty tired of talking about this particular role iteration. I used it, it happened, it didn't go like I thought it would, some people liked it, some people hated it, I won't use it again the way I wrote it this time, things move on, life WW goes on.
 
Animal Midwife said:
There was definitely some skill involved. She could have been too sketchy and had dolphin kill her (losing two extremely valuable villagers in one go) or been mislynched since some were tossing her name around on thread. Clearly the wolves thought Paws was sketchy too and let her live for days after spearheading a wolf lynch D1.
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I am saying the mechanic of her role had no skill, not that paws didn't post on the thread with skill. She literally was just given names. She didn't have to submit anything. Ergo, the mechanic that broke the game required no skill.

edit and with pips comment, ill drop it
 
ziggyandjazzy said:
I am saying the mechanic of her role had no skill, not that paws didn't post on the thread with skill. She literally was just given names. She didn't have to submit anything. Ergo, the mechanic that broke the game required no skill.
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It was passive, like miz, FTF, and somewhat me. Trust me, parity seer takes skill. If it was that overpowered, then she should have been killed N1.
 
Animal Midwife said:
It was passive, like miz, FTF, and somewhat me. Trust me, parity seer takes skill. If it was that overpowered, then she should have been killed N1.
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(ok last comment: they didn't know about it N1 ;). And I said this in either dead chat or spectator chat, but since Nav's role was designed to go after investigative roles, I should have made it targetable by his role or a similar oppositional ability. Live and learn).
 
PippyPony said:
Moving this to the thread since dead chat is full --


Same.

Although, somewhat ironically, I think I do best with that in semi-open set ups with somewhat standard roles, whereas the games I run typically have a closed set up with very non-standard roles. I should probably make some that are more like that. (Also, having a game with fewer notifications makes for much faster closing, which is another thing I struggle with)


I agree. I do think wolves had a very good game from a tone perspective. And I also think they got screwed in the end by mechanics, and it's very tough to stay motivated after that happens.

On the flipside, they knew a lot of the roles that were out there and used their roles primarily within their own pack instead of letting them take care of villagers for them. And if Paws and MSU had been NK'd earlier, or blocked, things might have worked out differently.

With 4 wolves and extra village deaths, this game could have hit lylo by like D3, which is more than a little terrifying haha.

If I put crazy extra death roles like this into a game again, it would be a much bigger game, I'd add extra healers on both sides, and I'd probably delay the time to death by an additional day.

If Lawper had been lynched or killed at any point, all the extra kills would have been gone from the game. In this case, it was very good for village that he wasn't killed because @dolphin106258 had her shots -- and as she so correctly pointed out, she single-handedly took out half the wolf pack lol.

I also really didn't expect @Mad Jack to use his role as frequently as he did, so note to self that I definitely need to put mega restrictions on a role like that. It could be pretty bomb (pun sorta intended) as a one-shot village role that only worked on wolves, though.

That said, even though he used it aggressively, I think he did better with his role than people are giving him credit for. He targeted himself N1 after revealing (if it were me, I might've done N2 but I saw where he was going with that) ...and if Mel had actually read his role description (*cough*), then I don't think he would have ended up getting hit with it.

MJ also caught Mutts with his trap when he targeted Paws, but Mutts got shot anyways so it didn't matter.

For anyone who was asking about AM's role and how that worked...she could set 3 watcher traps. When they were triggered, she'd get the names of any players who visited her target on the night it was triggered, so it was basically just a watcher role that required some advanced planning. She was blockable on both the trap setting nights and the results nights. She was not caught by MJ when she set the trap on Paws because she had set it up the night before. If she had targeted Paws that night, she would have been a contender for dying.

I like roles that require some foresight, and so I liked her role & genny/ziggy's role quite a lot. I also liked @Ms Procrastinator 's role, and may use that again, perhaps with a different type of buff.

Ms P -- the "weird messaging" you got with your death was in reference to what killed you. Maybe someone here can help you figure it out? ;)
Click to expand...
I can invite at least one more to dead chat if you’d like.
 
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PippyPony said:
(ok last comment: they didn't know about it N1 ;). And I said this in either dead chat or spectator chat, but since Nav's role was designed to go after investigative roles, I should have made it targetable by his role or a similar oppositional ability).
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I suppose, but someone leading an unflipped wolf wagon seems like a solid starting place to me.

But what do you mean by Nav going after investigative roles? Is it an order of operations thing?
 
Animal Midwife said:
But what do you mean by Nav going after investigative roles? Is it an order of operations thing?
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He passively poisoned the first two people who acted on him. So when I was thinking about it during design, I was viewing it as basically a seer/tracker-killing device. Act sketchy enough to attract the attention of a village seer (or perhaps tracker/blocker) --> those players get wiped out by a bomb-type mechanic. Hence why I agree that Paws probably should have been targetable.

HOWEVER...he was also out of extra kills at that point in the game.

Tbh, I wasn't expecting wolves to poison one of themselves and thought he'd end up taking out at least one village (active) power role. But as @Navilly pointed out, if I wanted wolves to use their roles in expected ways, I probably should have swapped him off of the wolf team after I ran the RNG lol.
 
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Animal Midwife said:
There was definitely some skill involved. She could have been too sketchy and had dolphin kill her (losing two extremely valuable villagers in one go), been mislynched since some were tossing her name around on thread, or night killed for revealing too earlier with the first set of results. Clearly the wolves thought Paws was sketchy too and let her live for days after spearheading a wolf lynch D1.

As and Paws mentioned a couple days ago, it was a completely intentional strategy.
Click to expand...

Nope, I left paws alive because I like playing with paws. I can stay alive through perpetual sketch as good as the next person, but paws was in my cleared pile and would have been a logical kill. Night 1 we didn’t get a kill.

Also keep in mind that you all literally had ways to either find r kill wolves that targeted important people. That was the real thorn in our side, as we kept having to kill the second or third or forth most ideal target.
 
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Navilly said:
Nope, I left paws alive because I like playing with paws. I can stay alive through perpetual sketch as good as the next person, but paws was in my cleared pile and would have been a logical kill. Night 1 we didn’t get a kill.

Also keep in mind that you all literally had ways to either find r kill wolves that targeted important people. That was the real thorn in our side, as we kept having to kill the second or third or forth most ideal target.
Click to expand...
We actually did submit to kill paws the night before she revealed her information also
 
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Navilly said:
Nope, I left paws alive because I like playing with paws. I can stay alive through perpetual sketch as good as the next person, but paws was in my cleared pile and would have been a logical kill. Night 1 we didn’t get a kill.

Also keep in mind that you all literally had ways to either find r kill wolves that targeted important people. That was the real thorn in our side, as we kept having to kill the second or third or forth most ideal target.
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Only fair since we couldn't kill D1. :p tbf though, I just mean first kill and probably should've clarified as such. Paws didn't start receiving any sort of night support until after the reveal. You had strongman + ninja though so I'm not sure I understand the issue.
ziggyandjazzy said:
We actually did submit to kill paws the night before she revealed her information also
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What made you change it?
 
Animal Midwife said:
Only fair since we couldn't kill D1. :p tbf though, I just mean first kill and probably should've clarified as such. Paws didn't start receiving any sort of night support until after the reveal. You had strongman + ninja though so I'm not sure I understand the issue.

What made you change it?
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Confirmed her info, didn't matter at that point as we had already lost. Likely she was also a trap and we could take her results anyways.
How exactly were we supposed to know we should kill her immediately?? With a magical crystal ball to tell us she was getting all that info?

...we never had a strongman. Glad I made you believe at least one lie though ;)
 
I could have easily died with all my info, also wolves should know to split AM and I up if we are both village because we will figure it out and confide in each other.
#bestvillageblock #badasswooferstoo #sketchmasons4lyfe
 
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ziggyandjazzy said:
Confirmed her info, didn't matter at that point as we had already lost. Likely she was also a trap and we could take her results anyways.
How exactly were we supposed to know we should kill her immediately?? With a magical crystal ball to tell us she was getting all that info?

...we never had a strongman. Glad I made you believe at least one lie though ;)
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You didn't steal my info until after I revealed. You took n4 info, I revealed d4
 
ziggyandjazzy said:
Confirmed her info, didn't matter at that point as we had already lost. Likely she was also a trap and we could take her results anyways.
How exactly were we supposed to know we should kill her immediately?? With a magical crystal ball to tell us she was getting all that info?

...we never had a strongman. Glad I made you believe at least one lie though ;)
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But you said you were going to kill her the night before the reveal, meaning only the breadcrumbs were available should someone choose to iso her. She also could've been forever blocked and never gotten to use her ability, right @genny :mad:?
 
StayingPositive2017 said:
You didn't steal my info until after I revealed. You took n4 info, I revealed d4
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OMG I KNOW. hence why we didn't need to kill you.

I mean like you all can be happy you won but to try and say he role took skill is patently false. I'm out!
Animal Midwife said:
But you said you were going to kill her the night before the reveal, meaning only the breadcrumbs were available should someone choose to iso her. She also could've been forever blocked and never gotten to use her ability, right @genny :mad:?
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No, the night she revealed. we had submitted an action to kill her after MSU flipped and before she put the info on thread. then she revealed and we changed the kill.
 
PippyPony said:
Ms P -- the "weird messaging" you got with your death was in reference to what killed you. Maybe someone here can help you figure it out? ;)
Click to expand...

When I died my role PM said I said "We owe a rooster. Please, don't forget to pay the debt." @Navilly you know what this means?

Edit: It's Socrates last words after he died from drinking poison hemlock.
 
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ziggyandjazzy said:
No, the night she revealed. we had submitted an action to kill her after MSU flipped and before she put the info on thread. then she revealed and we changed the kill.
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I'm confused why you would use anything but a kill on her after the info is revealed and proven to be true when there are other unknown roles out there. Regardless though, this comes back around to Paws being left alive and undisturbed long enough to be able to drop the bombshell. Any seer variant is time sensitive.
 
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Animal Midwife said:
Only fair since we couldn't kill D1. :p tbf though, I just mean first kill and probably should've clarified as such. Paws didn't start receiving any sort of night support until after the reveal. You had strongman + ninja though so I'm not sure I understand the issue.

What made you change it?
Click to expand...

We didn’t have a strongman?
 
Animal Midwife said:
I'm confused why you would use anything but a kill on her after the info is revealed and proven to be true when there are other unknown roles out there. Regardless though, this comes back around to Paws being left alive and undisturbed long enough to be able to drop the bombshell. Any seer variant is time sensitive.
Click to expand...
You can continue to be confused then because it makes complete sense and you're being obtuse, per usual.
 
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