Western U COMP NW (Lebanon) vs TOURO CA

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wauhaukaupauken

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I will be interviewing at Touro CA next week and was accepted to Western COMP NW. :soexcited:

If anyone has experience or insight about Touro CA and some concept of what residency directors may be thinking about potential students from Western U COMP NW I would love to hear it???

I am asking early because I'm afraid I won't have much time to decide which school to put a deposit down on after I hear back from Touro in late November.

I have heard great things about the Western Pomona program and Touro CA.

I know Western COMP NW is a brand new school, but I like the fact they have already established so many AOA residencies and rotate through many of these sites. It seems like they have done an excellent job setting up the groundwork for their rotations.

Do any of you have insight into what residency directors might think about attending a brand new program??? and the relative reputation of Touro CA???

Any advice would help. Thanks???:confused:

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My understanding is that Touro's rotations aren't very good and that they have had questionable choices in the past. I don't know the details, but apparently gay students had some kind of conflict there. I know that may not apply to you, but even then, would you like to be affiliated to something like that? If I were to have a WesternU-NW acceptance, I'd prefer to take that than to spend money on interviews and what not.
 
It sounds like you have strong opinions about Touro. Can you be more specific about Touro's rotations versus COMP NW rotations?

I agree an inclusive atmosphere would be ideal, but to be honest I don't really know the details of what happened, and can in no way compare this to how it would be at other schools without at least interviewing.
 
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From reading about what happened it sounds like the administration in 2006 denied the formation of a gay-strait alliance group, and after outcry from students and the community the admin eventually acquiesed and allowed it.

While this is a sad statement about the tolerance of a few powerful individuals, on the other hand it speaks strongly to the strength of the students and community to stand up for what is right, and see it through to the end.

I have a feeling I would have much more interaction with the students than the admin, anyway.

I would love to hear from current and past Touro students, and residency directors/ residents/ attendings to see whether they feel this incident has affected the school's reputation?? I feel this is especially important, since the majority of rotations are in/ around SF area, and I would hate to be blackballed for residencies in the area and around CA.
 
From reading about what happened it sounds like the administration in 2006 denied the formation of a gay-strait alliance group, and after outcry from students and the community the admin eventually acquiesed and allowed it.

While this is a sad statement about the tolerance of a few powerful individuals, on the other hand it speaks strongly to the strength of the students and community to stand up for what is right, and see it through to the end.

I have a feeling I would have much more interaction with the students than the admin, anyway.

I would love to hear from current and past Touro students, and residency directors/ residents/ attendings to see whether they feel this incident has affected the school's reputation?? I feel this is especially important, since the majority of rotations are in/ around SF area, and I would hate to be blackballed for residencies in the area and around CA.


If you read some older threads regarding Touro and comments posted by current/past students regarding the quality of the rotations, and the organization of the 3rd and 4th year, you get a very negative impression of the school. You get the impression that all the logistics of setting up rotations, housing, etc is left to the students themselves, with minimal aid by the school's administration. I'm not a student at Touro, so this information is only second hand, based off what I've read on SDN. It's possible that the situation there has improved.... but why take the risk?

I don't know about the lebanon campus, but COMP seems to have pretty decent and well organized rotations (I'm a first year here..), so it's likely that the new campus will too? COMP is ridiculously expensive though, so you might want to take that into consideration... I'm pretty sure Touro is significantly cheaper.
 
If you read some older threads regarding Touro and comments posted by current/past students regarding the quality of the rotations, and the organization of the 3rd and 4th year, you get a very negative impression of the school. You get the impression that all the logistics of setting up rotations, housing, etc is left to the students themselves, with minimal aid by the school's administration. I'm not a student at Touro, so this information is only second hand, based off what I've read on SDN. It's possible that the situation there has improved.... but why take the risk?

I don't know about the lebanon campus, but COMP seems to have pretty decent and well organized rotations (I'm a first year here..), so it's likely that the new campus will too? COMP is ridiculously expensive though, so you might want to take that into consideration... I'm pretty sure Touro is significantly cheaper.

The Touro schools are just as expensive. I don't have an exact figure, but I'm fairly certain Touro-CA's tuition is around 40,000.
 
Don't quote me on this, but I remember checking and it was about a savings of 2-4k per year going to Touro. Problem is those savings could easily disappear if your housing and living expenses increase.

You're probably right. In the long run that small difference is nothing, therefore tuition is a moot point.
 
Western has a better reputation, thus their name is on the line with the new school so they will ensure the students are taken care of. I would personally choose Western Leb over Touro.
 
I would choose Western over Touro personally. I believe that many of Touro's students are very intelligent (I believe about 50% are from UC schools with UC Berkeley, UC Davis, UC Irvine, etc being the top feeder schools). However, I think Touro has a somewhat negative reputation. I know that one of Touro's departments was involved with a scandal of giving degrees for money, also many people believe that Touro is very money driven (are they the only school that requires a 2k payment in 2 weeks?). I know this is a n=1 example, but I have spoken to DO Physicians and students who have spoken negatively about Touro. Western has better rotations from what I hear and they have been around longer. Additionally, Western has taken students for the Northwest track since 2004 (?), so it's not a "new" school.

Edit: Touro's tuition is cheaper from what the other users said (I didn't check myself), but rent in Lebanon or Corvallis is probably cheaper than CA. So you have to factor that in. Also cost of living in OR is probably cheaper than Nor Cal in general. Also, you have to be careful of where you live, since Vallejo is a bad area, while Lebanon/Albany/Corvallis seem relatively safe.
 
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Personally, I would choose western U in a heartbeat. Reasons? Geographical Location, Cities attitude, Mother schools reputation, (weather (i do love rain after living in AZ)), i like a challenge, the people, etc.
 
Why not contact their deans of clinical education? I did for Touro-CA and was very happy with the quick and detailed response, it helped in my decision to choose TU. Half of their clinicals are in southern CA in residency-related programs. Honestly try not to believe the gripe of some on SDN. Surely you have NEVER exaggerated something.
 
I appreciate everyone's input. After looking at your posts, PMing with a few of you, talking with my mentor (a DO), my cousin (a DO intern), and my family. I've decided to go to COMP NW and let someone take my interview slot on tuesday.

A number of factors including $$$$ for the trip to San Francisco influenced my decision.

1. The atmosphere. I know its not for everyone, but I like knowing that we are literally transforming the health of a rural community. I have a baby on the way, and while San Francisco would have sounded fun ten years ago I like knowing that we are in a very safe community.

2. Diversity of clinical experience for myself. I've been working at a the biggest Level 1 trauma center in the northwest which is also a teaching hospital for six years so I want to diversify my clinical experience and I think rural and smaller town rotations are an excellent way to do it.

3. High quality rotations, everyone I've talked to from Western NW track has said amazing things about the rotations. Many of the Western Pomona student I talked to said they even would have preferred NW rotation site to their own. (whereas as have heard mixed messages about the rotation sites at Touro CA).

4. Reputation- Seems like a bit of a mixed bag. I feel most people think Western's rep is better than Touro's, but with it being a new school who knows. I think we can safely say there is no way to really know what residency directors will be thinking about Western COMP NW in 4 years.

Thank you everyone for your input, it helped me a lot especially since I have no experience with California clinicians and see very few DO's in Seattle so just needed to get a feel for what people were thinking about the schools.

Feel free to keep commenting as other students in the future may want this thread for a reference. THX
 
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For clarification purposes...
The issue/scandal brought up in (beginning in post #2) was not TUCOM-CA, but rather TUCOM-NY, and from my understanding was resolved.

In regards to rotations, they're a dynamic process at every school. I have friends in osteopathic colleges across the country and many of them will tell you there are cons, no matter how many pros, to their school's system.

As I'm approaching the time to begin my rotations with TUCOM-CA, I'm learning a lot about our process. Being a dynamic process, things are constantly changing. We are continually gaining rotation spots in various hospitals throughout California; however, there are spots that allow students to travel and sample both regional options and varying hospitals. Our school is unique (I found after the recent COSGP meeting in San Francisco) in that we not only do a lottery for placement in rotations, but we allow for exemptions which are determined by your class. The fact that there are pros and cons to any situation is going to remain only because it is impossible to make everyone happy, but I can attest that (having talked to years before me, and seeing the year after me now) TUCOM-CA is growing and changing and every year is making improvements on the year prior.

I hope my two-cents are worth something. Best of luck in your decisions and paths towards medicine!
 
For clarification purposes...
The issue/scandal brought up in (beginning in post #2) was not TUCOM-CA, but rather TUCOM-NY, and from my understanding was resolved.

In regards to rotations, they're a dynamic process at every school. I have friends in osteopathic colleges across the country and many of them will tell you there are cons, no matter how many pros, to their school's system.

As I'm approaching the time to begin my rotations with TUCOM-CA, I'm learning a lot about our process. Being a dynamic process, things are constantly changing. We are continually gaining rotation spots in various hospitals throughout California; however, there are spots that allow students to travel and sample both regional options and varying hospitals. Our school is unique (I found after the recent COSGP meeting in San Francisco) in that we not only do a lottery for placement in rotations, but we allow for exemptions which are determined by your class. The fact that there are pros and cons to any situation is going to remain only because it is impossible to make everyone happy, but I can attest that (having talked to years before me, and seeing the year after me now) TUCOM-CA is growing and changing and every year is making improvements on the year prior.

I hope my two-cents are worth something. Best of luck in your decisions and paths towards medicine!


Sorry, I don't think I quite understand. What do you mean by exemptions?
 
About exemptions, she is referring to a question I had about the rotation lottery system. I believe many schools have exemptions to the lottery for parents and some schools have them for those who are married or have domestic partners.

Usually this enables these medical students to choose rotations that are closer to home, so they can more easily deal with family obligations.

According to Touro-CA's website they do have exemptions and she was saying that the exemptions for Touro's rotation lottery are determined by the students themselves.
 
About exemptions, she is referring to a question I had about the rotation lottery system. I believe many schools have exemptions to the lottery for parents and some schools have them for those who are married or have domestic partners.

Usually this enables these medical students to choose rotations that are closer to home, so they can more easily deal with family obligations.

According to Touro-CA's website they do have exemptions and she was saying that the exemptions for Touro's rotation lottery are determined by the students themselves.

That is correct. While Touro has a lottery system, the students of each class vote on criteria for which people can 'exempt,' which means that they circumvent the lottery for a good and pre-determined reason (ie: kids in school in the bay area would be a compelling reason to exempt into a bay area site so as not to relocate a family).

The rotation sites are growing each year and touro students rotate at some of the same hospitals as western u students.

as for the previously mentioned scandal, as AlisonNoelle stated, I can also attest to the fact that it was not affiliated with TUCOM-CA, rather touro new york.
 
I don't want to people to spread rumors about Touro-NY.

Unfortunately, the incident we spoke of was at Touro-CA but it was a few years back, and I'm sure most schools have a similar incident they aren't too proud of. Check the sources below. Fortunately, the administrative official was rebuked and they reversed their position.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-09-...rights-group-student-group-student-government

http://web.archive.org/web/20070223231811/www.tugsa.net/bth7/06.09.09-VTH.htm

http://www.glma.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Feature.showFeature&CategoryID=4&FeatureID=311
 
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I don't want to people to spread rumors about Touro-NY.

Unfortunately, the incident we spoke of was at Touro-CA but it was a few years back, and I'm sure most schools have a similar incident they aren't too proud of. Check the sources below. Fortunately, the administrative official was rebuked and they reversed their position.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-09-...rights-group-student-group-student-government

http://web.archive.org/web/20070223231811/www.tugsa.net/bth7/06.09.09-VTH.htm

http://www.glma.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Feature.showFeature&CategoryID=4&FeatureID=311

I'm not trying to say this is okay by any means... So please don't think I'm trying to say that...

But if you think of it from this point of view... isn't TOURO a Jewish institution? Or am I totally off base.. Of course I'm not saying the students or people that work there are... but isn't that the case with the organization? If so, I know a lot of people of the Jewish faith, and homosexuality is still a very big taboo among many of them.

It wouldn't be one of the things I held against the school, since it was resolved and in the end everything ended up okay. I would be much more worried about the rotations and Touro's reputation for money taking..
 
I don't want to people to spread rumors about Touro-NY.

Unfortunately, the incident we spoke of was at Touro-CA but it was a few years back, and I'm sure most schools have a similar incident they aren't too proud of. Check the sources below. Fortunately, the administrative official was rebuked and they reversed their position.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-09-...rights-group-student-group-student-government

http://web.archive.org/web/20070223231811/www.tugsa.net/bth7/06.09.09-VTH.htm

http://www.glma.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Feature.showFeature&CategoryID=4&FeatureID=311


I don't think they were speaking about the LGBT issue when they were referring to Touro NY. They were most likely referring to this:

http://www.vosizneias.com/35995/200...official-sentenced-in-grades-for-pay-scandal/
 
Thanks for clarifying the exemptions. I know this is probably asked many times, but since we're sort of on the topic of rotations, can someone explain touro's rotation policies? I'd like to know specifically if it's possible to set up away rotations and if so, are we able to do this in the third year?
 
As the guy who brought up the scandal, I was referring to the GSA issue because the discussion was about CA. I rather see degrees sold than discriminating based on who a person loves.
 
If you go to Touro, you don't have to live in the ghetto. There are several extremely safe towns nearby in very convenient locations.

I am a 1st year at Touro-CA and I live on the island. Mare Island is very safe and even has a school. However, the school is not considered 'good' and those students with children live in Fairfield which about 20 miles away.
 
Thanks for clarifying the exemptions. I know this is probably asked many times, but since we're sort of on the topic of rotations, can someone explain touro's rotation policies? I'd like to know specifically if it's possible to set up away rotations and if so, are we able to do this in the third year?

it's a little difficult to explain, especially since things change from year to year, but i'll try to...

current rotation spots include california (long beach, colton, chino hills, santa maria, santa rosa, vacaville/fairfield, the bay area), michigan (outskirts of detroit), new york, oregon, colorado and pennsylvania. wauhaukaupauken explained the exemption process well. thanks for getting to it before i could :) it's not limited to just being a parent or married, which is why your class will vote depending on your personal circumstances (should you apply for an exemption). many people will get their desired location if they apply for an exemption and even those who do the lottery system will get their 1st or 2nd choice (with only a few receiving their 3rd choice).

as far as setting up your own rotations for your 3rd year: you can do this, but it may be more trouble/hassle than it's worth especially when you're dealing with classes and upcoming boards. your 3rd year will include time for electives/vacation, so those will be the time where you will schedule something outside of your core curriculum (set for that year).

back to the topic of the "scandal": i suppose i was unaware of the articles posted by wauhaukaupauken, but i can assure you that TUCOM-CA is a friendly environment to all walks of life. our strong gay-and-straight alliance club on campus is active today and (coming from a background being safe-zone trained and working in non-judgemental/non-assumptive environments) i can say that i've never witnessed any biases/injustices towards the group (whether it's faculty or students)

hope that helps
 
I am a 1st year at Touro-CA and I live on the island. Mare Island is very safe and even has a school. However, the school is not considered 'good' and those students with children live in Fairfield which about 20 miles away.

Or Benicia, which is like 10 miles.
 
For those of you with families it is a good idea to take a look at the demographics of the area you want to be in to include gang culture and crime rates in Bay Area/NorCal because it is getting worse. I was stationed at Travis AFB, which is in Fairfield and while Fairfield isn't horrible its no where near close to being great either. I would definately stay away from Suisun City...

On a footnote while I was stationed there I lived outside of Davis, which may be a little farther than many of you want to be but gang culture was at a minimum. AF-OSI (Office of special Investigations) literally laid out a street map for the local cities and told us street specifics on where to avoid.
 
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When I was still going to classes at TUCOM I lived in Berkeley. It's only 25-30 min to school and much better than V town.
 
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