What’s up with ER Management Companies?

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Noyac

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So I’m an anesthesiologist. And in Anesthesiology, we have seen these management companies come and hopefully, “go”.
But my question is, what’s the state of affairs in the ED?
Are you seeing more of these management companies?
If so, how are they working out?

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So I’m an anesthesiologist. And in Anesthesiology, we have seen these management companies come and hopefully, “go”.
But my question is, what’s the state of affairs in the ED?
Are you seeing more of these management companies?
If so, how are they working out?
In a few years it’s very likely every EM job will be a corporate management company site
 
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In a few years it’s very likely every EM job will be a corporate management company site

I don't know, I'm seeing some signs that a reversal in the trend may be occurring. Maybe hospitals are realizing that docs with ownership treat their customers/patients better and are more profitable. I hope so anyway.
 
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I don't know, I'm seeing some signs that a reversal in the trend may be occurring. Maybe hospitals are realizing that docs with ownership treat their customers/patients better and are more profitable. I hope so anyway.

I do hope you are correct. But looking at the trend over the last 5 years, we went from 30 corporate groups to about 4, as they bought their competition up.
 
So I’m an anesthesiologist. And in Anesthesiology, we have seen these management companies come and hopefully, “go”.
But my question is, what’s the state of affairs in the ED?
Are you seeing more of these management companies?
If so, how are they working out?
We're seeing less total but it's because a few big ones keep gobbling up the small democratic groups and smaller CMGs. Sucks how much they're ripping off new grads.

Can you elaborate more on the come and specifically "go" that you've seen in anest?
 
I would like to see them more on the "go" side of things. One gets what they pay for. Hospitals that hire these companies are either fools or are ok with mediocrity. The contract cycle, staffing models, and (short term) profit emphasis with little regard for quality. I suspect that most of the hospitals that hire CMGs are steeped in mediocrity.
 
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Can you elaborate more on the come and specifically "go" that you've seen in anest?
Well first of all, I haven’t directly interacted with this AMC’S (Anesthesia Management company) but it has been a hot topic for many years in the anesthesia community. It is my understanding that they have either gobbled up the groups that were vulnerable and therefore, the rate of groups converting to AMC’s is slowing down. Or these groups have lost enough contracts that hospitals are more reluctant to sign a contract with an AMC. I do however know of two hospitals that went with an AMC and have since fired that group and tried to get back on their feet with either private groups or employee models. In Both of these Hospital I believe the CEO’s lost their jobs as well.
But I also know of some anesthesiologists that have sold out to an AMC and they are content. But I believe it is the honeymoon period. Many that have not sold out to them but just sign on to work for them are discontent.
I asked because our ER is being taken over by USACS. I feel very badly for them.
 
I wholeheartedly believe that these massive groups are bad for medicine.
I don’t understand how we allow ourselves to work for the management company.
The management company should be hired by physician groups.
It’s unbelievable that many physicians have no idea what is billed and collected in their name.
This goes for anesthesia too
 
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Well first of all, I haven’t directly interacted with this AMC’S (Anesthesia Management company) but it has been a hot topic for many years in the anesthesia community. It is my understanding that they have either gobbled up the groups that were vulnerable and therefore, the rate of groups converting to AMC’s is slowing down. Or these groups have lost enough contracts that hospitals are more reluctant to sign a contract with an AMC. I do however know of two hospitals that went with an AMC and have since fired that group and tried to get back on their feet with either private groups or employee models. In Both of these Hospital I believe the CEO’s lost their jobs as well.
But I also know of some anesthesiologists that have sold out to an AMC and they are content. But I believe it is the honeymoon period. Many that have not sold out to them but just sign on to work for them are discontent.
I asked because our ER is being taken over by USACS. I feel very badly for them.

I feel bad for the patients...
 
I would be willing to bet that >80% of our metro area EDs are run by CMGs. TeamHealth probably has 50% by themselves. Our hourly rate is also reported to be one of the lowest out there. However, we also have a pretty large EP supply with many residency programs.
 
It hurts patients the most. Some areas pay actually goes up for doctor when the CMG comes in because they try to use midlevels more and then charge much much more aggressively on patient bills.

Not good for patient care but where I work the pay has gone up every time the contract has overturned to a new CMG.
 
From a trainee's perspective who was interested in both anesthesia / EM fields and who has followed trends in the staffing and "corporate practice of medicine" practices for both fields (now finishing residency in EM), it seems that there are a lot of parallels. I think we have a lot that we could learn about the natural history of various trends in staffing models and corporate ownership of groups from anesthesia's experience, especially any cautionary tales.

I'm sure the same is true for our colleagues on the gas side, since a lot of the large (and getting larger) contract management groups are also getting involved in the other specialties that tend to be hourly hospital employees or subcontractors, so I'd imagine the experience of those being assimilated is probably similar. More pressure to practice faster, cheaper and more profit-generating medicine placed on employees that are treated as replaceable cogs in a machine. (Or at least that's what it sounds like from the way many describe their experience.) It sounds from what you're saying that some hospitals are figuring out this isn't a great model for business or clinical medicine, at least for anesthesia. Maybe that will be how it turns out in EM.
 
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In my 11 years in general EM, I never worked for a CMG. Even my 3 years in residency, was under a group run by docs. But unfortunately, CMGs have successfully crushed SDGs by outperforming them. They've run their businesses better and more efficiently. They do what hospitals hire them to do and they do it very well; that is to run the business of staffing EDs. And it should be no surprise, doctors in general, are much better clinicians than businessmen and that we've failed to outperform the CMGs. For the small minority of EPs that are good businessmen, my advice is to take advantage of the free standing option, as much as possible, where available. This is your best hope for independence, the greatest control of your practice environment and schedule. Where that's not possible or desirable, your best asset is to remain as mobile as possible. For the groups that treat docs the worst to survive, they depend on people being trapped by homeownership, and strong community ties. For employed docs to hold these groups' feet to the fire, you have to willing to dump them for low pay and poor job satisfaction, as they are to dump a doc for poor performance or refusing to tow the corporate line. Option 3, is to obtain a skill few other EPs have through a fellowship. That allows you to call your shots more, and have a range of options greater that the average pit doc.

But until you start to see the CMGs that treat the docs the worst collapsing into bankruptcy due to inability to staff EDs, they're going to keep doing what's profitable, and that is, to give you what you'll take, and treat you how you are willing to accept being treated. As long as docs stay landlocked, anchored by home and family in poor practice environments, the model will remain the same.
 
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Food for thought..
1) There is a highly illegal agreement between EmCare and HCA whereby a portion of the Pro Fee is kicked back to HCA from EmCare in exchange for staffing the EDs.
2) Hospitalists are a major cost to hospitals and require a subsidy. CMGs often will staff the hospitalists for a very low or no subsidy in exchange for the ED contract
3) Many of the hospitals are very unhappy with the buy-in of the ED docs in the CMGs.
4) While people here espouse the "success" of the CMGs I advise you to take note of the crashing stock price of Team before they went private and see what happened to EmCare after the Amsurg merger. (Hint they are worth less now as a combo than they were alone pre merger)
 
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Interesting. what is this 'pro fee' you speak of?
 
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