1. Download free Tapatalk for iPhone or Tapatalk for Android for your phone and follow the SDN forums with push notifications.
    Dismiss Notice

What about France ???

Discussion in 'General International Discussion' started by loualouis, Apr 21, 2002.

  1. loualouis

    loualouis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi,

    My name is Loualouis. I am a French-21 year old student at the University of Paris Nord at Bobigny. I am a Med student in Year 2. I will be pleased to inform you about Medical education in France and the way we live our studies. If you are interested in graduating there, I may give you some tips.

    Bye, Bye !!!!
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. ApacheIndian

    ApacheIndian philomath
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi Loualouis... I don't know about going to France for medical school, but I will say this... Paris is by far one of the most beautiful cities I've ever seen! I was there this past summer, and I thought it was just fantastic... clean, great architecture, nice cars, good food, gorgeous women... just awesome! Good luck with school and your career!
     
  4. Long Hair and a Beard

    Long Hair and a Beard Obsessionist
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    1
    C'est super!

    Just what I needed - a guide to help me to France.

    You see, I am a final year medical student in India and I am exploring options for residency, and France seemed always a viable option (car je parle un peu de francais) but there was no way to get information about residency in France.

    Voila! Tell me everything from the start. Can a medical student from India harbour the ambition to study in France? If yes, how should I go about it (I'll be finishing medical college in Dec 2003)? And also a touch of info about how harsh or lenient are the immigration laws.

    I know a 2nd yr medical student may not know much about residency procedures, but any help would be most welcome.
     
  5. Ray22

    Ray22 Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2002
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    0
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by loualouis:
    <strong>Hi,

    My name is Loualouis. I am a French-21 year old student at the University of Paris Nord at Bobigny. I am a Med student in Year 2. I will be pleased to inform you about Medical education in France and the way we live our studies. If you are interested in graduating there, I may give you some tips.

    Bye, Bye !!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you louis,
    Can you give us your email if you don't mind?
     
  6. halothane

    halothane Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bonjour....hey buddy fmgs.....the best place to do and get residency is the US. Right now the no. of IMG applicants is at an all time low. My classmates with scores in the low 80s found residency in peds. in University programs. Once you have american training by and large the world will be at your feet. Also I have seen brits, germans, french, spaniards , aussies and folks from other developed nations seeking residency here. Take my word....try to get else where when you cannot get residency in the US( getting in the US is easiest). By the way when I was in India I checked out at alliance fracais about medical residency in France. Besides being fluent in french you may have to repeat the last two years of medschool......not very desirable. The stipend in the US lets you have a decent life....in europe you pay too much tax and the cost of living is too high. au revoir and best of luck.
     
  7. Long Hair and a Beard

    Long Hair and a Beard Obsessionist
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    1
    hi halothane.

    sound advice, but what about surgical residency... that's not really easy to get.

    But now I am hearing that imgs ARE getting into general surgery, and now i find you, apparently in anesthesia... so maybe US is the best option.

    Tell me, what kind of cv did you have to get in. I want to get an idea.

    Are you sure about the extra two years, coz that so effectively crushes my ambition.
     
  8. loualouis

    loualouis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi,

    I FEEL ASHAMED
    Regarding french news I believe that no foreign student should come there. I am disgusted towards the presidential results. The far right will be at the final round. I am disgusted since I am french, have origins from North Africa and can't understand that more than 25 % didn't vote and about 20% vote to far right.

    That guy, JM Le Pen believe that every immigrants should be sent in a one way fare ticket back to their country. He said that what happend to jews during WWII was a detail and that HIV is transmitted by skin touch. He sounds and smells like VOMIT !!

    Thus, before considering graduating in France, think twice and check the 5th may final round to see who is our next President. Even I don't believe I will stay much longer in France and think of transfering to US, Eire, UK or even NZ. Actually there are more and more countries in Europe that goes to fascism and racism. The most stupefying is the new Rotterdam mayor who's gay AND racist. I mean, didn't he suffer from exclusion and outcasting behavior ???

    Good luck all, God bless France. I feel like I was in the early thirties but that time I and we all have the screen play.

    Bye all

    PS : feel free to send me stuffs about graduating or transfering to UK, US, Eire, NZ, Canada or Australia
     
  9. halothane

    halothane Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    hey Indian dudes...the only thing worth doing in Europe is to stop for a connecting flight <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> America is nost FMG friendly nation in the worls and the true place for a bright man to shine. God bless America. General surgery is filled up by FMG...say about 15% or so this year...ie about 300 fmg got surgery this year. Anything is possible if you have the stuff. Great great board scores are a good palce to start with for FMG.....I mean simply ace the test if you want a competitive speciality. For primary care low 80s are enough. Well about the CV....the most imp. things for FMGs are as follows 1. Score 2. US experience 3. Research....but if you have SCORES like high 90s...you will get into a decent program. Good luck Devashish. Smash the mle banda youll be fine <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  10. Long Hair and a Beard

    Long Hair and a Beard Obsessionist
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    1
    It's funny how the French people are making noise about a democratically elected presidential candidate. I mean, even if he is not pro-immigrants, and I shouldn't be backing him, still a good 20% of French people want him to be president. So probably they should stop slinging mud at the man and do some soul-searching for themselves.

    Anyway, our French friend doesn't seem to have much useful information to part with. Or maybe it is just the shock of recent political upheavals.

    thanx for the luck halothane.
     
  11. loualouis

    loualouis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi,

    First of all I will answer you that my parents are migrants so that I am not a part of the 20% dumbers. I did vote and I now feel like I will keep on marching for people to understand that we should never forget that Vote.

    Then regarding Med Schools information I am sorry not to have sent you any stuff.

    To be brief since it is 01:30 am, People with former Medical training must complete first year and last year of med school, which mean passing the End-of-First Year competitive examination which allows only 20% to next year. Then you spend the last year, set the National Ranking Examination that will allow you to choose the place and the speciality you want regarding your rank.

    More news will be avaible soon...sorry for being late
     
  12. The Pill Counter

    The Pill Counter Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Loualouis:
    Do Parisian schools take med students for electives? If so, at what level french do they expect? Mine's pretty weak, but I'm trying!
    Thanks
     
  13. FionaS

    FionaS Kitty sitting
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2000
    Messages:
    3,575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    To Halothane - not everyone here wants to work in the US - personally I can think of no worse purgatory! And yes, that is just my own personal view, lots of people want to work in the US for their own very good reasons.

    To Loulouis, I wouldn't worry too much about Le Pen, these things happen, so long as they're not allowed to go any further, and they let you know what people are stressed about. There is a similar problem in the UK abou immigrants - I say good luck to them, but a lot of others don't agree, and that is where the problems start. Anyway, that wasn't the point of this message.

    Actually rsk77 beat me to it, but I was going to ask about electives in France in general, although Paris through to Brittany would be good (I live in Plymouth in the UK, so can get to Calais really cheaply). How good does your French have to be - mine isn't great (c'est mauvais!) but I have 1-2 years to get it up to speed.
     
  14. halothane

    halothane Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually I really wonder why fiona would consider the US a a purgatory?? As far as I know Immigrants like America like no other. Anywhere in the world the US training gets more value. I know people who went to UK Aussie etc. and then end up coming here and feel there is a heaven and earth difference. Why there are Canadians and Europeans who come here to realise their best potential. Well also the medical system here is well ahead of the rest of the world. Why I read that had Diana the crash in the US she would have probably have been saved as in the US we scoop and run to the nearest trauma center unlike in france where they try to fix her at the spot!!! :confused: Also I graduated from the British system ( our curriculum was based on the British MBBS system and we read British books) let me tell ya....its only after I read American texts that the subject got clearer. I have friends and seniors who got their MRCPs and then came here willing to start over again simply because it sucks in England. Viva America!!! you wanna be #1 doc. train in the US.
     
  15. UAB

    UAB Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    I?m a spaniard applying for a residency position in the US.
    I don?t think everybody want to go to the US, because they have the best health system or because it?s the best country.
    I personally love US for several reasons,but I would never say that US has the best health system, in Europe countries like France and Spain have better health systems by far than US ( France and Spain are ranked 1st and third best public health systems in the world ), in US there is a great health system for RICH people, but what abou the other big part of the population ?
    Also you can?t compare the quality of life in some mediterranean countries with US, I have several american med students who came to visit me and they couldn?t believe I was going to leave my country.
    You say everyone want to go to US, obviously is the easier place to do your residency in a rich country ( even UK is much easier ) , and doing your residency in Spain, France or even Germany being non-european can be almost impossible, so US and UK are the easiest getaways ( also the language is another factor ).
     
  16. Long Hair and a Beard

    Long Hair and a Beard Obsessionist
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    1
    From what loualouis describes, the French system does not look much different from USMLE Steps. Except perhaps that extra one year in France completing final year.

    More info, loualouis, please. Specifically regarding funding during that year, funding during residency, when to start things in motion, etc etc.
     
  17. The Pill Counter

    The Pill Counter Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    these immature 'we're better than them' posts are getting tedious. why can't people provide info without the dumb commentary that's been said over and over again on SDN? If you want to have these arguments, why not at least provide intelligent commentary, ie. GDP to health spending ratio, life-expectancies, etc. cause just US is great or Europe takes care of everybody is just boring.
     
  18. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    1
    Guys, can't you see what's happening here? The western (rich) world lacks doctors. So we're taught not to move to other countries. The opinion in my own country (Denmark) is generally an uncritical "we have the best system" and I'll bet that's the word in most western countries. Listen to Halothane, how he's read that Di would have lived if she had crashed in the US. IS HE KIDDING US? JGDLB says France and Spain have the best systems. Man, you have to look at the source.

    I'm saying: Every western country is trying to hold on to their docs so don't believe everything you hear or read about the greatness of your own system.

    ps. I have no idea who's got the best system. No idea whatsoever.
     
  19. UAB

    UAB Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION
    ASSESSES THE WORLD'S HEALTH SYSTEMS
    The World Health Organization has carried out the first ever analysis of the world's health systems. Using five performance indicators to measure health systems in 191 member states, it finds that France provides the best overall health care followed among major countries by Italy, Spain, Oman, Austria and Japan.
    The findings are published today, 21 June, in The World Health Report 2000 &#8211; Health systems: Improving performance.
    The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of gross domestic product (GDP) on health services, ranks 18th . Several small countries &#8211; San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy.
    <a href="http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html" target="_blank">http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html</a>

    WHO Issues New Healthy Life Expectancy Rankings
    Japan Number One in New &#8216;Healthy Life' System
    Japanese have the longest healthy life expectancy of 74.5 years among 191 countries, versus less than 26 years for the lowest-ranking country of Sierra Leone, based on a new way to calculate healthy life expectancy developed by the World Health Organization (WHO).
    Previously, life expectancy estimates were based on the overall length of life based on mortality data only.
    For the first time, the WHO has calculated healthy life expectancy for babies born in 1999 based upon an indicator developed by WHO scientists, Disability Adjusted Life Expectancy (DALE). DALE summarizes the expected number of years to be lived in what might be termed the equivalent of "full health." To calculate DALE, the years of ill-health are weighted according to severity and subtracted from the expected overall life expectancy to give the equivalent years of healthy life.
    The WHO rankings show that years lost to disability are substantially higher in poorer countries because some limitations -- injury, blindness, paralysis and the debilitating effects of several tropical diseases such as malaria -- strike children and young adults. People in the healthiest regions lose some 9 percent of their lives to disability, versus 14 percent in the worst-off countries.
    In terms of DALE, the rest of the top 10 nations are Australia, 73.2 years; France, 73.1; Sweden, 73.0; Spain, 72.8; Italy, 72.7; Greece, 72.5; Switzerland, 72.5; Monaco, 72.4; and Andorra, 72.3.
    DALE is estimated to equal or exceed 70 years in 24 countries, and 60 years in over half the Member States of WHO. At the other extreme are 32 countries where disability-adjusted life expectancy is estimated to be less than 40 years. Many of these are countries with major epidemics of HIV/AIDS, among other causes.
    The United States rated 24th under this system, or an average of 70.0 years of healthy life for babies born in 1999. The WHO also breaks down life expectancy by sex for each country. Under this system, U.S. female babies could expect 72.6 years of healthy life, versus just 67.5 years for male babies.
    "The position of the United States is one of the major surprises of the new rating system," says Christopher Murray, M.D., Ph.D., Director of WHO's Global Programme on Evidence for Health Policy. "Basically, you die earlier and spend more time disabled if you're an American rather than a member of most other advanced countries."

    <a href="http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-life.html" target="_blank">http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-life.html</a>
     
  20. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    1
    Interesting link, I'll give you that JGDLB. But for the life of me, where do you see the rank? Life expectancy is by no means a fair measurement of the quality of a health care system. Infant mortality, on the other hand, would be. You mediterranean dudes eat your famous mediterranean diets and live longer. Well, duh, that's why everyone else is trying to copy it.

    I didn't see Spain mentioned once in any of the other categories.

    Whatever, I have no point. It's just so annoying the way everyone thinks they are from the coolest place on earth. Kinda like we're 1st graders talking about our parents.
     
  21. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    1
    Okay, I can't believe I looked it up. But according to the CIA world Fact Book, Spain is actually beating the US at infant mortalities.

    Spain: 4,92 / 1000 live births
    USA: 6.76 / 1000 live births

    Norway had the best (I forget the number, high 3s I think) of the ones I could think of.
     
  22. UAB

    UAB Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear DaneMD:

    I?m not saying that Spain is the best ( Even I can think it ), I?m trying to give some OBJECTIVE features about the discussion we are having about the different health systems in the world.
    I?ve done electives in UK, France, US, and I also can say that in my opinion France has an awesome health system.
    I love US, and for personal reasons I want to go there, and I just wanted to say that US isn?t the only great health system in the world.
    I haver to say you that after knowing deeply some health systems and some countries If I was a patient I would choose France or Spain, and If I was a doctor ( like I will be ) I would choose US.
    Not only those countries have great health systems, also another reason to be ranked so highly is because the 99,9% of the population are covered by the public health system.

    Just say that when you doubt about some info, please check it before.
     
  23. halothane

    halothane Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Man all these stats about life indices have nothing to do with medical education . My point is that the US has the best infrastructure for medical education and physician training. I have studied public health too. The reason the rest of the developed world has better life indices is because this being a totally capitalistic nation there is no socialized medicine. It does not reflect the fact that once you actually are in an US Hospital you are getting the best treatment in the world. I have read in several texts that the outcomes of treatment in the US is still the best. The catch is that the system here is not as accessable as in the rest of the developed world where socialised medicine exists. But I have read about the woes of the socialised medicine system too. Endless waiting lists for expensive procedures so much so that some people from these countries come to the US for treatment if they can pay so that they do not have to wait and wait.
    And free healthcare for all makes you guys pay much higher tax. No wonder you guys have so much unemployment and percapitas which are like way below ours...US being 34K and Europe on an average being 20K ...its simply because socialism practiced on any level drags the economy down. So even if the average american lives say a few years less( which I feel is largely because they eat too much of the wrong stuff) the average american lives a much better life paying less for gas, food and having a lot more disposable income. They live shorter but they live better. Now I am not trying to be childish and say US # 1 , what I am implying is that going by the advances and breakthroughs being made in the US the medical system here is the best for physician training and also for those who are treated. Just because everyone does not have as much access as say in europe does not mean that system is inferior. It only means the access is inferior. Well thats capitalism. If americans had to choose to pay more tax and have free health for all they would vote against it....well lets just say it s more important for Americans to live well than to give that up to live a few years longer. Still the US medical system is # 1 because of superior technology and research and the training here is the best too. Now if one were to go by the life index stats then the Omani or Andorran medical system would have to declared superior( I really do not see a lot of papers being published from Oman/Andorra nor any pioneering work from there!)
     
  24. UAB

    UAB Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Halothane:
    First to say that european countries aren?t socialist countries, are capitalist like US.
    Second our taxes aren?t much higher than in US, and the health insurance isn?t covered by the direct taxes you pay, it is covered by the indirect taxes you pay when you buy something ( just maybe we don?t spend so much money in the army ), also our education is free, like in the med school.( even this is a little bit different in each country ).
    You are right that the situation for a doctor ( just speaking about employment and salaries ) is much better in US than in any other country, and I have to recognize that even I prefer life by far in my country, the situation for a doctor is better in US, no doubt.
    You say that you life less but better, you should travel a little more before saying this.
    You say the medical education is better in US, I would say knowing BOTH systems ( this is very important ) that in US there is a great medical education, but some european countries have a stronger curriculum and they gain higher knowledge in medicine by far than in US, maybe in US a medical student know more practical things, but it doesn?t mean you have a higher knowledge in medicine.
    I think is very important speak when you have seen both systems because usually some people don?t realize what is happing outside their countries.
     
  25. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    1
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by halothane:
    <strong>But I have read about the woes of the socialised medicine system too.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">well, then it must be true.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by halothane:
    <strong>
    ..the average american lives a better life paying less for gas</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um, have you ever heard about Kyoto?
     
  26. will_lam

    will_lam Junior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    How do these posts that are honestly just asking for information turn into nation-bashing contests of me vs. you?

    Somehow halothane took an expression of opinion (although badly worded) and decided to turn it into an excuse to satisfy his own complexes by ranting on about a question that none of us can truly answer. Unless you have not only practiced medicine, but have also been a patient in every North American and Western European country you don't have the credentials to say which is best. And remember that what's best is more often than not an individual preference. That is 'What's best for me?'

    To correct some incorrect statements: Firstly, no qualified person would assert Diana would have lived if she had been here in the US. Hundreds die daily in road traffic accidents in the US, but by your logic this would mean no one EVER dies in car crashes over here. If you read this Diana statement somewhere then perhaps you can provide the source so we might verify the credibility of its author. (By the way all accident victims in the US, and the rest of the world, are 'treated at the scene'. Diana was in fact taken to a trauma center and began surgery before passing. At least get the facts right.)

    Second, although the US may be a preference, Europe actually takes in many more immigrants than the US.

    Third, I promise you that simply being in a US hospital does not in any way guarantee you the best or newest treatment. Your ability or inability to pay will determine the extent of your treatment at all levels outside of emergency care.

    I'm curious halothane if you are from Asia or more specifically the Indian subcontinent? I ask because many of your statements seem characteristic of the Asian immigrant mentality towards American medicine that I have experienced. Basically this mindset usually consists of "America is the best healthcare system in the world because doctors make alot of money there." Also you said you graduated from the British system and outside of Oz/NZ that basically leaves Asia. Keep in mind though, there is a big difference in a college degree from the American University of Cairo in Egypt and one from a US university in America. In other words there's a big difference between learning under the British system and actually receiveing a British (or Oz) education.
     
  27. UAB

    UAB Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Halothane I just wonder If you have done your medical school in India ( like it seems for previous posts )how you can compare several education systems that you aren?t in them.
    Also It would be very funny to know that you are saying that the US medical education is the best if you have gone to a third world country paying money to get your degree because you weren?t accepted in the US, or obviously in any western european country where you can?t buy your degree, and where just people with great scores can get it.
     
  28. halothane

    halothane Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is really getting crazy.

    I have made statements only from what I have read. About Di....Iam only telling you what I read in a newspaper/ magazine at around the time of her death. It quoted a trauma expert from the US saying that way too much time was spend attempting to resucitate her on the spot when she should have been rushed to the trauma center sooner which is the way it is done in the US....scoop and run were the exact words used by that person. It was a while ago I cannot by any means give you a link.

    Ok now my answers in the beginning were directed to people who were considering residency options overseas. I have interacted over the past few years with folks who trained in UK, France , Aussie and several other parts of the world and were training in the US who agree that this is by far the best training available( simply because there are more resources here). My very close friend trained at one of the best Hospitals in the UK and another worked in Aussie at what was apparently very reputed. They are currently in training in the US now( all over again) and say the system here is better to train. Now if Iam wrong why would the rest of the world make harrisons/ wash manual a standard.

    Now this is not about health care...it is about medical education. It is not about money it is about training. It is my response to folks who seek medical training in the west....just telling them them that its a really good idea to train in the US as that would open up more opportunities.

    This said I rest my case....it is my opinion and is only meant to inform those who are looking west for training. Not only is the US the best place for an FMG to train(which I gather from folks who trained in Europe/Aussie before coming here) it is an easier and more straightforward and fair method of obtaining residency training ( this i gather from my own research I did when I was in med school)
     
  29. halothane

    halothane Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey and lets not make personal attacks based on assumptions. Thats low.
     
  30. UAB

    UAB Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don?t think there is something wrong to discuss something is the reason because there is a forum, so I don?t think is becoming crazy, we are just giving opinions, especially when we think someone is far from the true.
    You can?t say in US there is a better training because there are more resources available, I?ve been doing electives in US, and I was in a public hospital, where I saw hundreds of people without the best treatment available, just because they were poor, and because it was a public hospital, those poor people are also citizens.
    Also you can?t compare the UK health system, not very prestigious in Europe compared with other EU countries.
    I agree that the research done in US is awesome, also US is much bigger than any EU country so they can have a lot of more research done, but I say you that you can go to any Western European country and you will find the best treatments available in all the hospitals for their patients.
    When you train in US you don?t just train in the MD Anderson, you train also in some public hospitals with much less resources.
    This discussion is not against you, but when you give some info you can maybe get some information
    first by your personal experience rather that someone else, and you should defend more the place where you received your education, because if it?s so good the medical education in US, why you didn?t go there?
     
  31. halothane

    halothane Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    PS look at my profile.....I am a resident in a US Hospital. I really like the system here.
     
  32. loualouis

    loualouis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey all,

    As we say in France, when the cat is outside, mouses are dancing. I mean at a first wish, this topic was supposed to help people who are considering residency or complete medical training in France because, first of all, we don't have that much intn'l students from Western countries in my school for instance, then I thought it could be a good way to know more about each others as Med Students.

    But as a matter of facts, I see that even if not from the same school, this bad "competitive feeling goes out fastly. I even don't understand why. I won't say french educational system is perfect. We actually change it over. There will be a 2-year degree after what people will set a competitive examination with all the Medical Professions. It is assumed that best students will choose Med School, then Dental School, then Nurses School...

    Regarding access to residency, it is not yet stated. My university is however known to be Foreign students friendly.

    I think it is cool to be at hospital for a full month during september of year 2. Wearing a doc suits make you a strange feeling that you have to wait until being about 22-23 years old in the US. It doesn't even matter since I won't wish my first year to my worst ennemy !!!

    Even if I wish Halothan could be less narrow minded by saying in an older reply US n?1. I mean, you said you studied Public Health, do you learn to be as...blocked : US is the best Others are "less good". i think it is less that way. <img border="0" alt="[Pity]" title="" src="graemlins/pity.gif" />

    Anyway, keep talking, actually verbal exchanges is the best way to increase world health situation.

    I greet you all, and will give you more infos ASAP,

    Loualouis
    <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  33. halothane

    halothane Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Phew! nobody seems to get my point here. I am not trying to put down anybody....I am merely suggesting to my friends on this international forum ( especially those from the east eg. India/Pakistan/China etc)that effort and money is best spent trying to obtain residency in the US as this is by far a more feasible project as compared to trying to get residency in Europe/ Aussie which by far are kinda closed to outsiders( my own research).

    I put in my efforts to obtain residency in the US and thank god I could make it. I have friends who first went to UK/Aussie/Germany etc. and then finally decided that the best place for career advancement was the US, came here and told me they wished they had come here in the first place.

    Thats all. The reason I say this is as simple as this...say in my own case, should I return to the country of my birth I will have better job prospects with US training as compared to those with say training from elsewhere(this is an established fact). If I say choose to work in the gulf there too US trained physicians get paid more and get better jobs than say people trained in the UK, Germany, Aussie etc. The bottom of the pay rung in the guy who only obtained his training entirely in an Asian country. This is how it is. New Zealand for example exempts foreigners from taking their written licensing exam if they pass the USMLE.

    So it is a known fact that in the world market US trained physicians are valued most let alone here in the US. Do not please get me wrong....Iam not putting down anybody Iam only suggesting to those who have to make a decision about getting their higher training in west to give the US a more serious thought. This I say in particular to Asian docs. who are typically the ones to seek higher training outside their country and often do so on limited financial resources.
     
  34. UAB

    UAB Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are right, nobody doubt that the situation for a doctor is the best in US, but this is far to say that the education there is the best.
    US is the first destination for foreign doctors for several reasons:
    1- US is the biggest rich country, so they can accept more foreigns that any european country, and their laws are much more open to foreign doctors( except UK, with a doctors shortage ).
    2- Again the situation for a doctor ( employment and salaries are higher )
    3- The language, this is very important, anywhere you learn english, but not everybody speak spanish, french or german.
    4- US is the easiest place in a rich country ( by far ) where a foreign doctor can train ( except for UK, where is easier ), where 30% or even more are FMG, and in most european countries would be almost imposible to get a residency spot being foreign( also most of the times the exams to get those residency spots are much harder than the USMLE ).
    So please don?t say you are recommending Asian doctors to go to the US because is better, just say because is EASIER and possible for them, and if your subjective opinions about health systems are stronger than the WHO, Congratulations!
    But anyway I think the strongest argument you gave to say the quality of the education is ?because I like it ?, you will be a genius doctor to say this.

    Because I vault it too.
     
  35. ApacheIndian

    ApacheIndian philomath
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    1
    MY opinion: The United States has the best medical education, the best medical care, and produces the best doctors in the world. Period. If anyone disagrees with this, then he's in a state of denial. later
     
  36. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    And what, Dr. Cuts, is your international experience that serves the base of saying such a blind and ignorant statement?
     
  37. UAB

    UAB Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just unbelievable.....
     
  38. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    1
    Man, this is getting out of hand. We're never going to agree on this.

    Cuts, are you quoting an Asics shoe box? I knew I had seen your signature somewhere.......
     
  39. JPMD03

    JPMD03 Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I can't believe this kind of discussion exists on this forum. It's so stupid and it brings nothing to the rest of us.

    Dr_cuts, what kind of experience do you have around the world?

    A lot of things in medicine were found in the US, but much more things were found elsewhere. You have a nice medical education in the US, but what do you know about France? (since this is the original topic).

    Please answer in a mature way and do not post stupid things like "we Americans are the best and strongest, bla bla bla...".

    It seems to me that we could have a nice knowledge based discussion. :)
     
  40. loualouis

    loualouis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    For my part, I am feded up. Have fun arguing like this. As I told you before I didn't aim to create such a bad thing. I wish that everyone will make a good doctor, not only well educated or well paid but also more open-minded, what about you Mr.Cuts ?? Do you think you could see more far than Long Island or the Goldent Gate ?? That's big question. For my part I may finish to turn to US, in Eire or in Canada, if JM Le Pen become our niew "F?hrer". Actually with my origins he could destroy my Passport.

    :( I will not write for a certain time since I have mandatory Histology classes and I have to sleep since I am in Hospital training tomorrow morning.

    <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Bye, everyone, especially Leorl, I understand that you were a girl. You could have tree eyes and just one ear but with the way you talk you will always seem to me so beautiful. I wish you could spend some days in Paris if you graduate in Eire.

    Bye all, and good luck !!!!!!!
     
  41. ApacheIndian

    ApacheIndian philomath
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    1
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by leorl:
    <strong>And what, Dr. Cuts, is your international experience that serves the base of saying such a blind and ignorant statement?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have practiced medicine in 8 of the top 10 industrialized nations of the world, I have served as the head of the WHO for over 5 years, I have... lol, o.k., o.k., I'm a 3rd year med student.

    Geez people, may I please direct you to the first two words in my turmoil-inducing post... "MY OPINION." Feel free to believe whatever you want about this topic, or any other topic for that matter, this is simply what I believe. And no, I am not going to sort through my gray mater and post every single reason that I can think of to support this.
     
  42. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    1
    Cuts, be honest. Did you get it from Asics? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  43. ApacheIndian

    ApacheIndian philomath
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    1
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DaneMD:
    <strong>Cuts, be honest. Did you get it from Asics? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">lol!
     

Share This Page