What are good 1st year grades?

[thesauce]

I was once, then became a chemistry grad student, and now in the MS0 holding pattern. Why do you ask?

I'm a ChE too. I think I remember seeing your MDApp profile once and it was almost exactly the same as mine. Curriculum, Grades, MCAT, even your extracurriculars were exactly the same as mine. It was weird.

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[vincikai]

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[Bfriccia1]

i totally understand the OP's question as well and i do not know why everyone seems to be unable to find it acceptable and keeps insulting it. i have not started M1 year yet and i was wondering the same exact thing. maybe i can rephrase the question in a better way:

For those of you who are well into your med school years, for your PARTICULAR class, what kind of grades (how many honors per semester) would it take to be overall ranked at the top of your class (in the first two years before step 1 and rotation scores come into play)? In my med school there will only be pass, fail, and honors for the top standard deviation in each class.

Obviously getting all honors would rank you number 1. are there typically kids who do that? and what is the bare minimum (again for just YOUR particular class, each class will obviously be different) of honors typically on AVERAGE needed per semester to get you in the top quarter of your particular class? I know you guys probably do not know the exact amount of honored classes to make the exact threshold of being at the top, but rough estimates and averages is fine.

Just to clarify for those that cannot comprehend the question, i know being a "top" med student differs from class to class. i know getting honors in everything is ideal. i know i should try my best. i know step 1 and rotation scores mean more to residencies and effects your ranking and aoa chances more. but thats not my question, so dont reiterate those points to me or the OP anymore.

so an example of a great response would be something like this: "in my particular class, after M1 year, i honored 5 classes out of a total of 12 and was ranked in the top ten percent" or "typically kids who honored (insert number) classes out of (insert number) were considered in the top 25 percent in my class"

hope thats clear enough.

Honoring every class in first year would put you in the top 15-20% of the class.

 

[thesauce]

Honoring every class in first year would put you in the top 15-20% of the class.

You're saying that almost a fifth of the class honors EVERYTHING? What school are you at?

 

[thackl]

Honoring every class in first year would put you in the top 15-20% of the class.

This is true at my school as well (more like 10-15%). Doing it both yrs would be top 5% or so.

 

[Law2Doc]

This is true at my school as well (more like 10-15%). Doing it both yrs would be top 5% or so.

Apparently you guys go to schools more generous with the H's. Some places have just a couple of percent of the students per class getting honors. Grade inflation strikes again.

 

[thackl]

Apparently you guys go to schools more generous with the H's. Some places have just a couple of percent of the students per class getting honors. Grade inflation strikes again.

Anatomy and biochem were pretty stingy and kept it just under 15%. From there it got out of control. Some courses 2nd yr saw 1/4 to 1/3 honors. In the school's defense though, we have one of the best classes they've ever seen when it comes to being prepared for tests. The other side of it is class rank and the USMLE...... you can't inflate those

 

[njbmd]

I'm at a school with Honors, High Pass, and Pass grades. My class size is about 180 and in a given class:

20-25 people get Honors
anyone above the average gets a High Pass, and
anyone below the average but above 70% gets a Pass

So my question is: what would you consider good grades for first year? Honors in every class? Half of the classes? Just one Honors? All high passes? Are some classes more important to honor than others? We have 5 classes total with the new curriculum b/c many got combined:

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Hi there,
Most schools use first year course grades for ranking. Those High Pass, Honors etc have numerical values behind them and thus someone getting Honors in a course with a numerical score of 95 versus someone getting Honors in a course with a numerical score of 90 is going to be ranked higher overall depending on the course and the rest of the grades.

Many schools choose not to release the numerical scores behind the course grades and many (like mine) do release those scores. They also released rankings at the end of second year which were primarily the rankings that were reported in our Deans letters. With one or two exceptions, those rankings did not change much. The top ten folks at the end of second year were the same top ten at final commencement.

AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha) selection depends largely on the chapter at your school if your school has a chapter. Some chapters place a larger emphasis on academics and some will want both academics and leadership. At my school, both things were considered for membership and thus someone who did well academically but had no leadership experience would not have been elected to AOA.

It's a very good idea to do the best that you can in every course. Medical school is not about picking and choosing which courses to Honor and which courses to pass. A copy of your medical school transcript goes with your ERAS application for residency and thus the residency programs that you apply to, will have your grades and will scrutinize them along with your Deans letter before the final ranking meetings.

Having a good third year can help you greatly if you were less than a stellar first and second year student but PDs and program faculty know that third year grading can be largely subjective. Bottom line: Do the best you can first, second and third year.

njbmd

 

[GetalifeyouIron]

I'm at a school with Honors, High Pass, and Pass grades. My class size is about 180 and in a given class:

20-25 people get Honors
anyone above the average gets a High Pass, and
anyone below the average but above 70% gets a Pass

So my question is: what would you consider good grades for first year? Honors in every class? Half of the classes? Just one Honors? All high passes? Are some classes more important to honor than others? We have 5 classes total with the new curriculum b/c many got combined:

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Hey sauceman, honestly, you need to get a ****nig life. Yes medical school grades are important but if competition with others is how you define yourself, then you're in for a sad life. There will always be someone better than you, and always someone below. I bet you're one of those kids who spends all their time weither studynig or worknig out, am I right, are you a gym rat, coem on admit it. I went to NJMS, I'm a resident now in Derm. The work there is not impossible. The new curriculum they have you guys on is a joke. I didn't honor any classes cause I just didn't care. I set my goal for HP and P's, and I did just that. I rocked the boards and I found out no one really gives a **** about 1st year grades. Learn for the sake of rmembering the material, if that leads to a honors, great, if not, youre still cool for the step. Most medicakl students need to grow up, pull the stick out of their ass, and just live. Being a doctor doesn't define who you are, it's just a profession, don't overblow it. Smugness if never attractive. Adios kids, I'm off to do some real work.

 

[frank51]

Hey sauceman, honestly, you need to get a ****nig life. Yes medical school grades are important but if competition with others is how you define yourself, then you're in for a sad life. There will always be someone better than you, and always someone below. I bet you're one of those kids who spends all their time weither studynig or worknig out, am I right, are you a gym rat, coem on admit it. I went to NJMS, I'm a resident now in Derm. The work there is not impossible. The new curriculum they have you guys on is a joke. I didn't honor any classes cause I just didn't care. I set my goal for HP and P's, and I did just that. I rocked the boards and I found out no one really gives a **** about 1st year grades. Learn for the sake of rmembering the material, if that leads to a honors, great, if not, youre still cool for the step. Most medicakl students need to grow up, pull the stick out of their ass, and just live. Being a doctor doesn't define who you are, it's just a profession, don't overblow it. Smugness if never attractive. Adios kids, I'm off to do some real work.

Probably one of the best posts I've seen on SDN

 

[Law2Doc]

Learn for the sake of rmembering the material, if that leads to a honors, great, if not, youre still cool for the step.

I think this sentence sums up what one's goals for the basic science years ought to be pretty nicely. Nobody cares if you win the battles, just the war.

 

[thesauce]

Hey sauceman, honestly, you need to get a ****nig life. Yes medical school grades are important but if competition with others is how you define yourself, then you're in for a sad life. There will always be someone better than you, and always someone below. I bet you're one of those kids who spends all their time weither studynig or worknig out, am I right, are you a gym rat, coem on admit it. I went to NJMS, I'm a resident now in Derm. The work there is not impossible. The new curriculum they have you guys on is a joke. I didn't honor any classes cause I just didn't care. I set my goal for HP and P's, and I did just that. I rocked the boards and I found out no one really gives a **** about 1st year grades. Learn for the sake of rmembering the material, if that leads to a honors, great, if not, youre still cool for the step. Most medicakl students need to grow up, pull the stick out of their ass, and just live. Being a doctor doesn't define who you are, it's just a profession, don't overblow it. Smugness if never attractive. Adios kids, I'm off to do some real work.

I see....so you want me to get a "****nig life" because I live my life differently than you chose to? I don't want to be you and I don't want your life so what is my motivation to emulate you? Your minimum adequate attitude (HP or P until you get to the boards) just isn't for me. I honestly think that you were trying to be helpful, but using yourself as an example of how to live is the kind of smugness that you just described as unattractive.

FYI, a better way to present your point in the future might be something like:

"Hi, I went to NJMS and didn't honor anything my first two years, but still did great on the boards and matched into Derm. I learned that first year grades don't matter that much."

You'll keep more friends (and patients) with an attitude like this. I wish you luck!

 

[thesauce]

Probably one of the best posts I've seen on SDN

You must not spend much time on here. That's probably a good thing, though.

 

[ChillDoc2010]

hey guys, everyone has a point on this forum and this subject has been beaten to death already, but I'll say this:

To everyone already in med school and who know that doing your best is the best yardstick and that there are too many factors to quantify "doing well" you're all probably right, med school is hard enough as it is and doing your best and learning what you came there to learn is all you can ask for, especially when all of us will become doctors and especially because we have to enjoy the journey to getting there.

Everyone like me who's just starting med school and probably curious about what % of ppl get honors, it would save alot of unnecessary discussion if you just check your school's grading policy since every school is so different.

For example, mine says a standard deviation above mean is Honors. If you assume it's a regular distribution, that's about 15% for any given class. If you say that about 1/3 of those people don't Honors everything and just got lucky, that's about 10% who are real gunners and are rocking every class.

I think it's safe to say then that getting Honors in everything puts u in the top 10% or so...and that gives a good idea as to what good grades are at a particular school....in my case, even if you don't honor everything you could still be top 20%

Basically, there are some assumptions in there, but as incoming med students we are probably good with a rough estimate of how we're doing, seeing as there is no reason to split hairs when first year grades are not that critical anyways. Most schools post their grading policy somewhere, so if you just reason through it that way it would give everyone a rough idea of where they stand instead of inefficiently debating why a question is good or bad, relevant or irrelevant....

Just my 2 cents, or more...haha

 

[RxnMan]

But it's so much easier to post than to do your own research.

 

[drdoctor]

I think alot of us incoming students are worried about how hard its going to be, how well we need to do, etc. But, everything will change once we're there. The motivation will come automatically. These posts are helpful though just to give some solace.

 

[Law2Doc]

hey guys, everyone has a point on this forum and this subject has been beaten to death already, but I'll say this:

To everyone already in med school and who know that doing your best is the best yardstick and that there are too many factors to quantify "doing well" you're all probably right, med school is hard enough as it is and doing your best and learning what you came there to learn is all you can ask for, especially when all of us will become doctors and especially because we have to enjoy the journey to getting there.

Everyone like me who's just starting med school and probably curious about what % of ppl get honors, it would save alot of unnecessary discussion if you just check your school's grading policy since every school is so different.

For example, mine says a standard deviation above mean is Honors. If you assume it's a regular distribution, that's about 15% for any given class. If you say that about 1/3 of those people don't Honors everything and just got lucky, that's about 10% who are real gunners and are rocking every class.

I think it's safe to say then that getting Honors in everything puts u in the top 10% or so...and that gives a good idea as to what good grades are at a particular school....in my case, even if you don't honor everything you could still be top 20%

Basically, there are some assumptions in there, but as incoming med students we are probably good with a rough estimate of how we're doing, seeing as there is no reason to split hairs when first year grades are not that critical anyways. Most schools post their grading policy somewhere, so if you just reason through it that way it would give everyone a rough idea of where they stand instead of inefficiently debating why a question is good or bad, relevant or irrelevant....

Just my 2 cents, or more...haha

I'm not sure knowing the grading policy tells you as much as you think. You could honor nothing, still be in the top quarter of your class by rank and be doing fantastically, although you may not know it. You could also honor everything, tank the boards, and be doomed to a non-competitive residency (it happens). You have to get past the numerical laurels, and worry about learning to the best of your ability, whatever that means, notwithstanding what others are doing. Most people show up to med school having done well in undergrad. As such, most people basically have an equal potential to get the high score on every test (unlike undergrad -- the low end of the curve has been truncated away by the admissions process), and most of those people who won't get honors will have formerly been A students. But in the laundry list of what residency directors look at at the end, the basic science year grades are pretty minor, and really just an early gauge of how un/prepared you perhaps are for Step 1. That is why some of us are saying any barometer of "doing well" other than your own pushing yourself to learn what you can are pretty irrelevant.

 

[RubberDuckie7]

Thesauce, I don't think your question is "stupid" or "obvious" at all, I will be attending NJMS this fall (or rather in two weeks) as well and I have the same question. We just want to know if our "pass" grade in an "Honors, High pass, pass..etc" system will be regarded the same way as a "pass" in a "pass/fail" system. I don't understand why people have to be so mean in these forums calling people "******ed" just for asking a question! If you don't have anything nice (or informative) to say then don't say anything at all.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thesauce, I don't think your question is "stupid" or "obvious" at all, I will be attending NJMS this fall (or rather in two weeks) as well and I have the same question. We just want to know if our "pass" grade in an "Honors, High pass, pass..etc" system will be regarded the same way as a "pass" in a "pass/fail" system. I don't understand why people have to be so mean in these forums calling people "******ed" just for asking a question! If you don't have anything nice (or informative) to say then don't say anything at all.

Because in all probablility the grades wont ever be "regarded" by anyone at all, or at least not given a huge amount of weight -- they will look at the class rank. That is how schools get away with just using P/F in the first place. And even then that rank will not be as important as Step 1 scores, or clinical years, or a host of other things residency directors will consider. So no, the question is not ******ed, but it isn't really the way things work at this level.

 

[RubberDuckie7]

Because in all probablility the grades wont ever be "regarded" by anyone at all, or at least not given a huge amount of weight -- they will look at the class rank. That is how schools get away with just using P/F in the first place. And even then that rank will not be as important as Step 1 scores, or clinical years, or a host of other things residency directors will consider. So no, the question is not ******ed, but it isn't really the way things work at this level.

Since I haven't started medical school, I didn't know that. Thank you very much Law2Doc for letting me know. I'm just so sick of reading snide and judgemental comments people make on these forums. Aren't we all becoming doctors to do some good for others? I mean we're on this forum to learn and share information with each other, stop with the hostility!