SGUSOM term experiences for prospective students (Start p.2 Previously:What are my chances at SABA?)

[fujiwara]

Since I finished my first term today and haven't got any plans for the next day or two, i thought I'd come back and update this thread on my experiences in Grenada for other prospective students. Since my experience is still very limited to 1st term, please take it with a grain of salt.

Travelling: I took direct flight from Toronto (since I'm Canadian) and personally havent had any terrible experience. The only negative thing about travelling with air canada (rouge) is that they have very limited amount of flights coming here so sometimes you may be able to book a flight right after exams, or just before classes start. Otherwise, your flight may get scheduled 1 week before classes begin, or 1 week after you finish your exams. I've had friends fly with LIAT and can say none of them have been positive. However, I must note that I can't comment on whether these were isolated incidents or not.

Island: While some people on the forums described the island as somewhat boarder line dangerous, I've been rather fortunate to not experience anything of the sort. I can't comment on why some students get robbed, but for the most part the area surrounding the campus is pretty safe as the securities do patrol around. That being said, they are really relaxed and I question the competency at times, but still, I've had great experience here. I will mention that i didnt really explore the island, or walk around far away from campus by myself. So again, please use common sense. The food here will not be the same as food back home. The restaurants here for the most part do try and make the best of the ingredients available and some even create all sorts of fusion dishes. They help to suppress your cravings and some dishes are really great/unique (i.e crispy ginger beef at the OC, sweet and sour chicken + porkbelly at Flavor house, burgers and fries and burger spoke, etc). These shops are really close to campus too, so its pretty safe to just walk over grab a bite and come back.

Weather: Technically, my term was supposed to be considered the "dry" season. BUT we've had occasional rain and for the most part beautiful weather all week. havent really had the chance to use my poncho but I will let you know post term 2 when its supposed to be "wet" season. It is VERY humid so be prepared to get hit by the humidity when you walk out of that plane.

Pests: Mosquitos. Forget the mosquitos back home because these things are on a whole new level. Allow me to explain. Typically a mosquito back home in Canada will leave a bite size around 1-2cm in diameter, with 1-2mm in elevation, few bites localized bites, moderate itchiness and thats about it. The one time i forgot to put on the mosquito repellant after 5hour time limit, i had 7 bites on each ankle, 6 bites per arm and 2 on my neck. Each bite swelled up to the size of those big cysts people pop on youtube. So, make sure you bring mosquito repellant, after bite, and antihistamine (preferably the one you can rub onto your skin). I've seen a cockroach once and that was outside in an old hall so I dont think you've much to worry about. I havent seen spiders either so thank god.

Lecture material: Forget about how undergrad was paced because here its just full throttle all the time. To give an idea, each lecture contains roughly 27-34 slides and you have 4 lectures a day, 4 days a week with a weekly quiz + labs you'll have to do 2-4 times a week. This was extremely intimidating to me at first, but once i got in the groove, it was manageable. It was much more important to pace myself than just blindly throw myself into the material. Having a steady study schedule, attending DES/review sessions, and addressing any problems early on instead of stubbornly trying to fight it out is probably the best piece of advice I can give from my experience. If you're a prospective student, know that you will feel overwhelmed and thats completely normal. My friends and I (who are all in 85-97 range) have had multiple mental breakdowns per exam. This really became a norm here. Just always remember that you will get through it, just be diligent...and use your skips wisely...save them for MSK/CPR module.

Attrition: This is probably the biggest concern every single person thinking about going to Caribbean is worried about. I know because that was me too. So, while I can't comment on the actual number of attrition for my term, I did record clicker numbers since beginning and end of term. However, there are several things that needs to be mentioned. First, in SGU, unless you're failing horribly, you will not get kicked out immediately. They will either decel you, place you in ITI or both. Second, because there are people in ITI, as well as people who have decelled, these numbers are not indicative of people on their 1st attempt on the term. Third, these numbers are taken via clicker counts so it is variable due to absence, changing cohorts, etc etc etc. Beginning of term we clicked in ~430 students. Post exam 4, we were clicking in ~350. We saw a steady decrease of 20 students per exam. Again, there's no indication here whether they dropped out, received offer from elsewhere and transferred out (a friend of mine did this so I know its partially responsible for decrease), moved cohorts, etc. Take these numbers for what it is but please dont go assuming this is indicative of attrition or anything. With all this being said, if you're studying and not going out every night like some people I've seen here, I'd imagine you'd be fine. From my observation, its people who are not taking it seriously that are failing the term. Just stay on the grind and you'll be fine.

Overall impression of SGU: I like it here. They presented me with the opportunity to pursue medicine when Canada was not willing. The quality of education will not be equal to the one back home, but i can't complain as they constantly grade and survey the students for feedback. The feed back are also implemented to increase quality of education. People here, both faculty and students, have been really friendly and supportive. I cant say whether SGU is better than other schools, but I can only say that from my experience I believe this choice was best for me.

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[Mknyveld]

Since I finished my first term today and haven't got any plans for the next day or two, i thought I'd come back and update this thread on my experiences in Grenada for other prospective students. Since my experience is still very limited to 1st term, please take it with a grain of salt.

Travelling: I took direct flight from Toronto (since I'm Canadian) and personally havent had any terrible experience. The only negative thing about travelling with air canada (rouge) is that they have very limited amount of flights coming here so sometimes you may be able to book a flight right after exams, or just before classes start. Otherwise, your flight may get scheduled 1 week before classes begin, or 1 week after you finish your exams. I've had friends fly with LIAT and can say none of them have been positive. However, I must note that I can't comment on whether these were isolated incidents or not.

Island: While some people on the forums described the island as somewhat boarder line dangerous, I've been rather fortunate to not experience anything of the sort. I can't comment on why some students get robbed, but for the most part the area surrounding the campus is pretty safe as the securities do patrol around. That being said, they are really relaxed and I question the competency at times, but still, I've had great experience here. I will mention that i didnt really explore the island, or walk around far away from campus by myself. So again, please use common sense. The food here will not be the same as food back home. The restaurants here for the most part do try and make the best of the ingredients available and some even create all sorts of fusion dishes. They help to suppress your cravings and some dishes are really great/unique (i.e crispy ginger beef at the OC, sweet and sour chicken + porkbelly at Flavor house, burgers and fries and burger spoke, etc). These shops are really close to campus too, so its pretty safe to just walk over grab a bite and come back.

Weather: Technically, my term was supposed to be considered the "dry" season. BUT we've had occasional rain and for the most part beautiful weather all week. havent really had the chance to use my poncho but I will let you know post term 2 when its supposed to be "wet" season. It is VERY humid so be prepared to get hit by the humidity when you walk out of that plane.

Pests: Mosquitos. Forget the mosquitos back home because these things are on a whole new level. Allow me to explain. Typically a mosquito back home in Canada will leave a bite size around 1-2cm in diameter, with 1-2mm in elevation, few bites localized bites, moderate itchiness and thats about it. The one time i forgot to put on the mosquito repellant after 5hour time limit, i had 7 bites on each ankle, 6 bites per arm and 2 on my neck. Each bite swelled up to the size of those big cysts people pop on youtube. So, make sure you bring mosquito repellant, after bite, and antihistamine (preferably the one you can rub onto your skin). I've seen a cockroach once and that was outside in an old hall so I dont think you've much to worry about. I havent seen spiders either so thank god.

Lecture material: Forget about how undergrad was paced because here its just full throttle all the time. To give an idea, each lecture contains roughly 27-34 slides and you have 4 lectures a day, 4 days a week with a weekly quiz + labs you'll have to do 2-4 times a week. This was extremely intimidating to me at first, but once i got in the groove, it was manageable. It was much more important to pace myself than just blindly throw myself into the material. Having a steady study schedule, attending DES/review sessions, and addressing any problems early on instead of stubbornly trying to fight it out is probably the best piece of advice I can give from my experience. If you're a prospective student, know that you will feel overwhelmed and thats completely normal. My friends and I (who are all in 85-97 range) have had multiple mental breakdowns per exam. This really became a norm here. Just always remember that you will get through it, just be diligent...and use your skips wisely...save them for MSK/CPR module.

Attrition: This is probably the biggest concern every single person thinking about going to Caribbean is worried about. I know because that was me too. So, while I can't comment on the actual number of attrition for my term, I did record clicker numbers since beginning and end of term. However, there are several things that needs to be mentioned. First, in SGU, unless you're failing horribly, you will not get kicked out immediately. They will either decel you, place you in ITI or both. Second, because there are people in ITI, as well as people who have decelled, these numbers are not indicative of people on their 1st attempt on the term. Third, these numbers are taken via clicker counts so it is variable due to absence, changing cohorts, etc etc etc. Beginning of term we clicked in ~430 students. Post exam 4, we were clicking in ~350. We saw a steady decrease of 20 students per exam. Again, there's no indication here whether they dropped out, received offer from elsewhere and transferred out (a friend of mine did this so I know its partially responsible for decrease), moved cohorts, etc. Take these numbers for what it is but please dont go assuming this is indicative of attrition or anything. With all this being said, if you're studying and not going out every night like some people I've seen here, I'd imagine you'd be fine. From my observation, its people who are not taking it seriously that are failing the term. Just stay on the grind and you'll be fine.

Overall impression of SGU: I like it here. They presented me with the opportunity to pursue medicine when Canada was not willing. The quality of education will not be equal to the one back home, but i can't complain as they constantly grade and survey the students for feedback. The feed back are also implemented to increase quality of education. People here, both faculty and students, have been really friendly and supportive. I cant say whether SGU is better than other schools, but I can only say that from my experience I believe this choice was best for me.

Thank you so much for updating this thread, and I hope you continue to do so. I'm an older student, considering medicine, and wondering if a Caribbean education might be the way to achieve it - and I'm also Canadian. I believe we have a similar mentality about our future careers, so I'm really invested in seeing how your journey proceeds! Wishing you continued success!

 

[795722]

People don't get it. The problem is not the education being offered but the chances of matching. you could be a freaking rockstar in Caribbean and still not match.

 

[the argus]

People don't get it. The problem is not the education being offered but the chances of matching. you could be a freaking rockstar in Caribbean and still not match.

Yea, this is not true at all.

Yes there are specialties that are mostly off-limits for Caribbean grads. But if you are "a freaking rockstar in Caribbean" and are realistic and smart about your residency application, you are almost guaranteed a residency position.

How do I know this? 2,900 US-IMGs matched into PGY1 positions through the NRMP this past year, the vast majority of whom are from Caribbean schools. Ross alone had >600 and SGU >900 in 2018 with residency placement. Unless you are going to argue that there are >1500 "freaking rockstars" coming from those 2 schools, then your point in nonsense.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf

 

[atomi]

Yea, this is not true at all.

Yes there are specialties that are mostly off-limits for Caribbean grads. But if you are "a freaking rockstar in Caribbean" and are realistic and smart about your residency application, you are almost guaranteed a residency position in primary care.

Fixed that for you.

 

[the argus]

Fixed that for you.

Burn?? Last I checked, residency positions in primary care specialties still count as residency positions. And the majority of US-IMGs match into internal medicine, which has abundant paths to a non-primary care career.

Oh yea, what's wrong with primary care anyway?

The original post I was responding to remains afactual garbage, regardless of your elitist drivel.

 

[795722]

Burn?? Last I checked, residency positions in primary care specialties still count as residency positions. And the majority of US-IMGs match into internal medicine, which has abundant paths to a non-primary care career.

Oh yea, what's wrong with primary care anyway?

The original post I was responding to remains afactual garbage, regardless of your elitist drivel.

Dude advise people to work hard so they can get MD/DO. Caribbean is a gamble whether you like it or not. I went to SGU and i have a first hand experience how much a gamble the students are in. Clinical faculties are made of unmatched sgu graduates.

 

[the argus]

Dude advise people to work hard so they can get MD/DO. Caribbean is a gamble whether you like it or not. I went to SGU and i have a first hand experience how much a gamble the students are in. Clinical faculties are made of unmatched sgu graduates.

Dude, I do. Look at my posting history, I repeatedly say exhaust all US based options before considering the Caribbean schools. I also repeatedly say that Caribbean schools accept basically anyone and have no qualms about kicking people out. I also repeatedly say the majority of Caribbean grads are limited to the least competitive specialties (FM, IM, etc).

That doesn't mean we can't be factual about matching opportunities, etc. The truth is, "freaking rockstars" from the Caribbean do very well matching for residency as long as they apply appropriately and realistically.

 

[Skip Intro]

Clinical faculties are made of unmatched sgu graduates.

Please explain this statement.

-Skip

 

[Chondroclast]

Please explain this statement.

-Skip

SGU student here.. I think this poster was referring to the facilitators. Basically, all small group sessions and ITI cohort lectures are facilitated by recent SGU grads that did not match. They are usually non-US and non-canadian students that graduated from SGU a year or two ago and are constantly applying each year to match (some apply a few cycles), and in the meantime they facilitate (teach/moderate) small group and ITI lecture groups of about 7-8 students. Yes they are MD's, but they recently graduated and have not gone through residency yet. Most are from Grenada, Trinidad, Nigeria, Barbados, some european and asian as well. I guess it's a good job for them while waiting to match- keeps the material fresh and they get paid a decent amount.

 

[Skip Intro]

SGU student here.. I think this poster was referring to the facilitators. Basically, all small group sessions and ITI cohort lectures are facilitated by recent SGU grads that did not match. They are usually non-US and non-canadian students that graduated from SGU a year or two ago and are constantly applying each year to match (some apply a few cycles), and in the meantime they facilitate (teach/moderate) small group and ITI lecture groups of about 7-8 students. Yes they are MD's, but they recently graduated and have not gone through residency yet. Most are from Grenada, Trinidad, Nigeria, Barbados, some european and asian as well. I guess it's a good job for them while waiting to match- keeps the material fresh and they get paid a decent amount.

Okay, this is interesting if it was what TimeTraveler intended. That poster referred to them as "clinical faculties", and if this is the clarification I now understand.

That said, sounds like these graduates are facing a larger obstacle: non-U.S./non-Canadian citizenship. It is hard to get sponsored to train in the U.S. or Canada if you're not from there. You have to be exceptional. However, I wonder why these graduates - if they are indeed islanders as you describe - don't do an alternate pathway in the Caribbean (residency, etc.) to get licensed to practice in the Caribbean. Perhaps this will be their final pathway if they fail to match after one (or more) cycles.

-Skip

 

[Chondroclast]

Okay, this is interesting if it was what TimeTraveler intended. That poster referred to them as "clinical faculties", and if this is the clarification I now understand.

That said, sounds like these graduates are facing a larger obstacle: non-U.S./non-Canadian citizenship. It is hard to get sponsored to train in the U.S. or Canada if you're not from there. You have to be exceptional. However, I wonder why these graduates - if they are indeed islanders as you describe - don't do an alternate pathway in the Caribbean (residency, etc.) to get licensed to practice in the Caribbean. Perhaps this will be their final pathway if they fail to match after one (or more) cycles.

-Skip

I've become pretty close with many of the "facilitators" which I guess are technically faculty. At least the ones from the carib (non-US/canadian) MD grads that are facilitators, have all said they want to try to match to the US first, mostly because the pay is so much higher and more opportunities of course, but yes like you said, getting the visas and sponsorship is pretty difficult. Their backup after not matching for a few years is just doing an internship in grenada or trinidad, but really it's a last resort for them. I was close with one facilitator that finally matched on his 4th attempt, to a pretty good family medicine residency in Texas, I gave him a lot of kudos for sticking in it that long and persevering. Some of these facilitators are super super smart, did really well on step, but unfortunately the non-us citizenship makes it so difficult for them to match.

 

[MNurse2MD]

Hello fellow Canadian. May i ask how you were able to obtain financing for international medical studies. I am also canadian and am finding this to be the biggest barrier to going to med school..the financing. Would you be able to provide some details? Which institutions..how much etc.

 

[fujiwara]

Hello fellow Canadian. May i ask how you were able to obtain financing for international medical studies. I am also canadian and am finding this to be the biggest barrier to going to med school..the financing. Would you be able to provide some details? Which institutions..how much etc.

First thing I did was try and contact the bank provided in the SGU portal. I think they recommended CIBC/TD (it was one of the bigger banks iirc). They're supposed to have some sort of international study program loan which will lend you upto 250k. Unfortunately with our current economy it makes it really hard for individuals with parents/cosigners who a. have debts (mortgage, auto, etc) b. make incomes under certain amount c. own a business. Due to this I was not able to utilize this program. Instead my parents took out a 2nd mortgage on our house to pay for my tuition. Hope this helps!

 

[fujiwara]

Just here to give my update on Term 2 at SGU and provide some numbers so far. So far, we've had 2 exams (ER and DM) and our numbers have dropped from 380 to 310-ish for in-class clicker. Assuming that both IMCQ (they divided the student body to A and B for IMCQ's) sessions have similar student body size, we should be around 480 which is less than 550 (calculated at the beginning in a similar manner). That being said I can also confirm good amount of my classmates have transferred from main cohort to ITI since last exam. Unfortunately we've just entered the most difficult module (NB). Should the upcoming exams + BSCE follow this current trend, my guess is that we should end up with somewhere around 200 students who'll pass term 2 during this round. I honestly don't find this term to be as difficult as term 1 so far but this may be due to either a. better study habits and being more efficient and/or b. the material is far better organized. I feel like the latter is more true lol. Hoping my experience of term 2 so far gives some insight to some prospective students on what to expect. Lastly, I'll post a entire term 2 review once I finish in December.

 

[Chondroclast]

Just here to give my update on Term 2 at SGU and provide some numbers so far. So far, we've had 2 exams (ER and DM) and our numbers have dropped from 380 to 310-ish for in-class clicker. Assuming that both IMCQ (they divided the student body to A and B for IMCQ's) sessions have similar student body size, we should be around 480 which is less than 550 (calculated at the beginning in a similar manner). That being said I can also confirm good amount of my classmates have transferred from main cohort to ITI since last exam. Unfortunately we've just entered the most difficult module (NB). Should the upcoming exams + BSCE follow this current trend, my guess is that we should end up with somewhere around 200 students who'll pass term 2 during this round. I honestly don't find this term to be as difficult as term 1 so far but this may be due to either a. better study habits and being more efficient and/or b. the material is far better organized. I feel like the latter is more true lol. Hoping my experience of term 2 so far gives some insight to some prospective students on what to expect. Lastly, I'll post a entire term 2 review once I finish in December.

I'm at SGU right now and there is no way almost half the students will drop out after term 2, never heard of that ever. There's about 350 in term 2 main class, and there's about 150 in ITI, so there's about 500 students in term 2. About 400 will make it to term 3 (a handful will do the CR, some LOA, and a handful just drop out).

 

[fujiwara]

I'm at SGU right now and there is no way almost half the students will drop out after term 2, never heard of that ever. There's about 350 in term 2 main class, and there's about 150 in ITI, so there's about 500 students in term 2. About 400 will make it to term 3 (a handful will do the CR, some LOA, and a handful just drop out).

These are strictly in-class clicker counts measured in the beginning 2 weeks of term 2 and over last 2 weeks post DM exam. That being said these numbers are susceptible to absences, clicker mishaps, etc which I mentioned in post term 1 review. In addition, 310 is in regards to main cohort while ~240 per group is the IMCQ count which is inclusive of both main and ITI. That being said our grade distribution graph distributed after each exam is indicative of at least 100 people having received grades lower than 70 each module thus far. Assuming that 70-80 section is evenly distributed, I'd imagine approximately 65 students are below 75 which is considered a "fail" starting term 2. That being said, it would mean that per exam there have been at least 150-170 students in the entire student body who have been unable to pass. Because there is noway to confirm these students achieving sub 75 in first exam are the same as second, it is likely that there are some students in this demographic who failed only one of the two exams, and can potentially pass the upcoming 4 exams. However, NB is supposedly much more difficult than ER or DM which would heavily imply that students who had difficulty with the previous two exams are more than likely to do subpar. The 200 students mentioned in my post are in reference to how many I expect to see in the main cohort at the end of term 2 and excluding how many students transfer to ITI or fail out.

 

[Chondroclast]

These are strictly in-class clicker counts measured in the beginning 2 weeks of term 2 and over last 2 weeks post DM exam. That being said these numbers are susceptible to absences, clicker mishaps, etc which I mentioned in post term 1 review. In addition, 310 is in regards to main cohort while ~240 per group is the IMCQ count which is inclusive of both main and ITI. That being said our grade distribution graph distributed after each exam is indicative of at least 100 people having received grades lower than 70 each module thus far. Assuming that 70-80 section is evenly distributed, I'd imagine approximately 65 students are below 75 which is considered a "fail" starting term 2. That being said, it would mean that per exam there have been at least 150-170 students in the entire student body who have been unable to pass. Because there is noway to confirm these students achieving sub 75 in first exam are the same as second, it is likely that there are some students in this demographic who failed only one of the two exams, and can potentially pass the upcoming 4 exams. However, NB is supposedly much more difficult than ER or DM which would heavily imply that students who had difficulty with the previous two exams are more than likely to do subpar. The 200 students mentioned in my post are in reference to how many I expect to see in the main cohort at the end of term 2 and excluding how many students transfer to ITI or fail out.

My term 2 friend just checked the roster and there's 491 students in term 2 as of last week. 340 in main and 151 in ITI. NB was the easiest of the modules, in my opinion. It was the organization of the module in the past, that was difficult. The material isn't hard. Now that it's organized better, students should do well. Not worth arguing these minute details of what happens/not going to happen. Just don't be a statistic and do well.

 

[fujiwara]

My term 2 friend just checked the roster and there's 491 students in term 2 as of last week. 340 in main and 151 in ITI. NB was the easiest of the modules, in my opinion. It was the organization of the module in the past, that was difficult. The material isn't hard. Now that it's organized better, students should do well. Not worth arguing these minute details of what happens/not going to happen. Just don't be a statistic and do well.

Is your friend in ITI? I've just checked my online sakai roster as well, but the numbers it generated for me was 367 students for term 2 main cohort. I know this isnt total student count but I also know this isnt correct main cohort number since I know there are more than 20 students who went from main cohort to ITI (starting count was 380 in the beginning of the term when I last checked). I can only attribute this inconsistent count to lack of server update and etc hence I use clicker count/lecture and SG attendance instead. At the end of the day I understand that these are just numbers and noway indicative of anyone's success but its still a data I personally would've liked to have seen. On the topic of NB module, despite the better organization, the notes from certain instructor(s) can still use improvement lol

 

[fujiwara]

Its been a long while since I last posted. Now that I'm starting my term 5, just wanted to give some updates for end of term 2 (which was by far my favorite term so far) and term 3/4.
Again, whoever is reading this, I hope you take this with grain of salt as experiences are different for every individual and the numbers only reflect the in-class clicker numbers I've observed in the main cohort (this number excludes ITI).

Term 2:
By this term, I was already adjusted to the living on island and its food, granted I only went as far as options and container park. Less of my classmates felt homesick and more of us felt excited to be finishing our 1st year. Term 2 was easiest for my friends and I. We got our highest mark during this term and imho the modules were more exciting. ER and DM are the two first modules and its really more intimidating than it actually seem. Most of us felt like we were not prepared and the exam seemed to be out of our knowledge scope but the class average was the highest for these two modules. NB is where most students either did well or didnt. Some really enjoyed all 3 sections of NB and did well. Others dreaded learning about it. The difficulty in this module seemed to be due to difference in understanding how lesion in various areas will have what type of effect and etc. For this Boards and Beyond is a must. All in all, this term can easily be managed with watching Boards and Beyond, CK med, and doing questions.

BSCE 1: This was the main issue at hand during term 2 for most, if not all, of us. But with dedicated study period it is easily manageable to get 100 and overall nothing to be too alarmed as long as you put in work.

Class size: As previously mentioned, we started with class size of approximately 380 ish according to clicker count and the last clicker was somewhere around 335. I know some of my peers moved to ITI and some even repeated. So again take this with a grain of salt.

Term 3/4
Before I start, I just want to mention that before the term even began I had alot of stressful events that happened before and during the term which affected my overall experience and performance (unfortunately). So, there are negative bias towards this term at least from myself. I wont mention what happened but it was probably the single most stressful time of my life during this term.

This term was long. I mean LONGGGGGGGG. It felt like eternity. Term 3/4 is the longest term for sgusom. If you're January cohort, you start mid January and finish at the end of June. If you're august cohort, you start at the beginning of July and finish early December. An extra 1.5month doesnt sound all that bad on paper, but when you're living it, it makes a world of difference. Term 3 for us included biostats and bioethics mixed in with Immunology. Some do really well during this term, others dont. Unfortunately for myself, despite putting in more work during whole term 3/4 I didnt perform as well as I did in the previous terms. You can do bunch of ethics question, read first aid, etc etc etc. This helped some of my friends, and for the rest of us, it had done nothing. The questions are purposely contorted and well, by now you should know how SGU writes their exam. Term 3 itself is about a month and a half, but there are no breaks between term 3 and 4. Class size wise, our numbers stayed consistent for the entire duration of term 3. Around 370ish.

Term 4:
This is where you start to see students really burning out and the homesickness makes its return. So many of my peers used their skips after term 3 to go back home for a 1-2 weeks. Now, if this is your plan, you have to be careful as you dont want to waste all your skips for labs. Certain labs are definitely more valuable (i.e histo labs) compared to let's say micro lab. Term 4 is the busiest term so a 2 weeks of skipping could literally mean all of labs and imcq skips. So make sure to schedule properly if this was your plan. If you were planning to give your clicker to a friend, they will do clicker checks as well. Many of my classmates during term 4 were caught for this and had to repeat the term due to 5-10% penalty. Anyways, back to term 4 schedule. During term 1 and 2, you may have had 2-3 labs a week and an imcq. Maybe a double lab sometimes. Term 4, everyday is double lab and it doesnt get any better. Labs are time consuming and all of a sudden 24hours seem to be not enough. All those breaks you were able to give yourself during term 1 and 2 are non existent. Materials are dense, lecture quality is....well...for lack of better words...getting worse and the exams during this term is more challenging than ever. How bad did it get? 1/3 of our class failed the 2nd exam. Our class size shrunk from 370ish to somewhere around 300-310 after that 2nd exam. There werent enough spots in ITI that they made 2 groups for it. Honestly, they changed alot of the formats for us so I dont know how applicable this will be to students currently in term 3/4 and those who will come after. Hopefully they change it...otherwise its going to be a battle. I tried using lecture in the beginning and decided to use other resources such as pathoma, zanki, and sketchy which I regret not doing from the beginning. Aside from that, OSCE exams are now a thing and you're expected to do medical interview, and physical exam within 15 minutes and write soap notes in 10 minutes. SGU will tell you that this is to prep you for step 2. I dont know how true this is, so maybe I'll comment on it when I get there. Honestly, this was probably the first term where you actually feel like a doctor because you actually do "doctor stuff". While my own personal circumstances made this term 3/4 experience rather negative, I do think it could've easily been a positive one.

Class size: During term 3 and term 4 exam 1, there wasnt much change. However, post exam 2 during term 4 shrunk our class size drastically to roughly 300-310 range. Exam 3 kept our class size and exam 4 average wasnt the best either. Today was the first day of term 5 and unfortunately I haven't looked at the numbers yet. However, the word is that bunch of ITI students who were achieving grades higher than 85 were moved to main cohort so ITI wouldnt be over crowded and the cumulative number of students who dropped out and are repeating term 4 are around 100. I've also heard lots of previous term 5's are also repeating this term so I'm not sure how many of us from term 4 made it as of right now.

 

[BaskingTurtle]

Hello. I am a current student at Saba. I highly recommend you do not come to this school. First of all they will literally take anyone that applies. The quality of education is so sub-par I don't even know where to begin. From the multitudes of foreign profs with thick African and Indian accents all the way to the cram sessions they "teach" everything, it is absolutely not worth your time, money, and above all your well being. The schedule starting 2nd semester through 5th is 8a-5p M-F. That leaves hardly anytime to study, especially since they have shortened semesters. The attrition rate is horrible, every class starts with 80ish students and by the end there is 20-30max...this is clearly not normal of an educational institution. There is no time to go to profs office hours or get any kind of tutoring, let alone thoroughly learn the material.

They made a curriculum change back in 2015, and ever since their passing rates have dropped significantly. Dr. Chu the president of the school himself came and told us here that the NMBE Comprehensive pass rate has gone from 80-90% down to 40-50% since the curriculum change!!! In their attempt to scramble to fix things, they keep changing the schedules, adding courses, taking away courses, hiring profs, firing profs, it has been an absolute mess since I've been here!!

In case you are wondering the NMBE Comp is the test the school makes you take before they allow you to sit for the Step 1, so that "99%" pass rate is kind of false reporting because they make it seem like 99% of the students who enroll pass, in fact you have to survive 5 horrible semesters of confusion and self-teaching, and even if you get passed all the courses, then you have to take that Comp (which has had failing pass rates as I mentioned above).....then finally sit for the Step 1. It is all like a staged event so they get to write 99% first time pass rate. And the admin is so out of touch with the students because all the decision are made in Devens, MA by R3 Education Inc. which is the company that owns this school, so no one can be held accountable by the students on the island. Once they take your money they treat like garbage.

If you are a genius or a robot, you will succeed here and learn the material well with cram sessions and no guidance from the school...otherwise average students get destroyed and ripped off like so many of my freinds!

Please take my advice to heart, I am not exaggerating in anyway...don't make the same mistake so many of us have made!

To the OP, I'm glad to hear that you are doing well at SGU! I've heard that's a good school although I don't have experience with it myself. Congratulations on your choice! And best of luck!

As for the comments above from mambostrike5, I can't stress enough how spot on that person is about Saba, and I want to add my endorsement for everything they said. Whoever they are, they overlapped with my time there and everything they said was true. The OP applied and was rejected from Saba for January of 2016 as I understand it, but what happened after that is that by January 2017 Saba had started accepting everyone.

As mambostrike5 pointed out, the curriculum changes weren't going well after they first implemented them, so they had to keep changing things. They messed up the schedule and curriculum every single semester since then and everyone started failing or leaving. And they have not stopped. They just did another major curriculum change starting at the end of 2018 that is ongoing and every single course will be changed again; everything, gutted. The organization of that place is a disaster and they can't get it right. And when they make changes they don't take the students into account at all. They don't even care about alignment, meaning they sometimes they don't even match the teaching with what's tested. If students point this out it is not listened to. Nothing the students say is listened to by the administration. If a professor tries to defend the students, they are fired. Simple as that. The administers don't like their incompetence pointed out, and there is some glaring incompetence among the administrators.

As well, they hire people without vetting them then fire them a month or two later - constantly. Or they fire them, as mentioned above, because they defend the students. Turnover is so ridiculous you don't know who is teaching next month. As a student you don't know what to expect or what to study and you basically have to teach yourself. It's the most transparent theft of money you can ever be involved in. And every time they fail you, you were be charged another semester worth of tuition, even if the answers set are wrong, or the prof taught the wrong material. Doesn't matter. No one cares that any of this is unfair, it's simply something you have to suck up or you lose the money you have already paid because they will kick you out for no reason if you try to stand up to them. These threats are made to students without batting an eye, so students get scared and shut up. The lack of competence is insane. And most importantly, the most incompetent professors are the ones that stay, because they are either part of the administration or because they are protected by the corruption going on behind the scenes, or both.

Knowing who is currently in charge, it can only get worse.

Stay away from that school. If you go there now, it will close down before you graduate. That school's days are numbered.

 

[fujiwara]

Its only been 2.5 weeks of term 5 but I figured this is some important changes to SGU that I think would benefit prospective students before they decide to come here. Again take the numbers for what they are and dont take them as absolutes. We currently have 371 students enrolled for term 5 main cohort but the clicker count is closer to 320. Majority of the students who've CR'd have said that there are about 150 students in total who CR'd term 5 and 50 who were either kicked out or are on LOA. This number seem to be very consistent with the claim as multiple colleagues have reported that about 1/3 to 1/2 of their sg members are those who are repeating the term. Again, take them for what they are.
The most important changes SGU made this year was that they got rid of the 75% WMPG requirement (cumulative GPA) and placed a flat out 72.5% passing grade policy. So the students no longer need to stay above 75% on their cumulative grade to progress to next term altogether. That being said, they also got rid of all the soft points such as small groups, and professionalism points. The reason for this change was to get rid of confusion on their passing requirements. The cumulative gpa will still exist and determine whether you'll be placed on chancellor's, or dean's list but aside from that SGU grading system is moving towards high pass, pass and fail system.
Anyways, I'll post a post term 5 review once I'm through this term. For those considering SGU I hope this comes as good news because for those of us who built ton of buffer through term 1-4, this new policy made it a complete waste...but such is life so, oh well...

 

[fujiwara]

Term 5 ended yesterday and now that I'm home (and praying for my cbse marks to be ok) I've had some time to collect my thoughts on the term and SGU experience on the island as a whole. Again, take whatever numbers I post for what they are and don't take them as absolute numbers for anything as they are susceptible to external factors. Also, my experience with term 5 will be different with upcoming class as they are changing few things (for the better).

Class size: In the beginning of the term we had 371 in main cohort, as posted above, and by the end I couldnt get a solid consistent number as students used their skips on class lecture and imcq with high variability. As a result, I have no before and after clicker counts for this term. However, for bsce we had approximately 60 students taking completion exam, and word on the street is that about 30 people are confirmed for CR.

Term schedule: Term 5 adds in hospital rotation on top of labs and cpd. However, gone are the double labs (i heard they were gone for the term 3/4 as well), so we had much more "free" time. That being said, all the free time is supposed to be used for bsce and cbse prep. These are cumulative exams (ms1+ms2) so cramming it will no longer work. The staple of knowledge for these exams will be B&B, UWorld (some used Rx), and previous NBME exams. I had set my schedule so that I'd finish going through all of boards and beyond while annotating ~2.5weeks before bsce (using cramfighter ofc). After that my plan was to focus on using my annotated first aid to study for the rest of the term. The approach for this term will depend on the individual. Some of my friends focused on the sgu exam in the beginning and then moved onto dedicated bsce/cbse prep after that exam since the pathophys lectures for my term was very low yield, not as helpful, and completely not corresponding to the materials that were tested on BSCE. I heard that for the upcoming next term, they will correspond the lecture materials with the contents that will be tested on BSCE. The rest of us decided to sacrifice the first exam (worth 8% of the total grade) and focus on bsce and cbse right from the get go. I cant comment on which method is better since it really depends on the individual and their priority and method. For myself i decided focusing on the 45% and 35% exam was bigger priority even at the cost of 8% exam since I knew I'd need more than 6 weeks to prepare myself. While the BSCE for us was an 8 hour exam (300 q's, 150 book 1, 30min break, 150 book 2) for my term, they will be switching it 2 day exam where you take book 1 and then 4 weeks later you take book 2. Aside from that, the hospital rotations may not seem like a big deal initially, but it takes alot out of you. In the beginning I didnt think it'd tire me out for the rest of the day, but it did. So, I had to readjust my schedule and plan accordingly. Also, seeing how hospitals and doctors work in Grenada really makes you appreciate everything we have back home. I can expand on this for another 10 paragraph but I'll just say its a learning experience instead.

Living condition: I havent mentioned much of this in the previous 2 term reviews because I didnt feel that the change between each term was big enough to justify having this section. However, comparing living condition in term 1 vs term 5, there are alot of things to mention. When I first came here, there were 4 apartments near campus but these were pretty old and beat. However, as I was leaving this term, the amount of nice apartments that have come up, and are in development (or soon to be in development) is almost night and day difference comparing to how it was last year (currently 11). Most places now have card machine (I know this sounds ridiculous but really, not alot of places took card when I got here), and even though we dont have fast food chains still, there are more variety of food to try now. The school have also renovated old gym to a student centre, built a new dorm and put up a new building called belford, which houses the new gym. This place really looks like a resort from outside. The quality of life is definitely getting better each year.

Post 2 year thoughts on SGU: I know that even when I was asking in the beginning, people were saying how this route is a mistake and that it'll be very difficult to match. I can't confirm how much of it is true or not because I'm still not there yet. However, for people like myself who could not afford US medical school due to the tuition rate for international student (since Canadians are considered international and arent given any special rate for being northern neighbors), Caribbean is one of few routes left. SGU may not be as great as schools in Canada and States, but it isnt as bad of a school many of us make it out to believe. There are plenty of room for improvement for SGU and luckily they take the student survey very seriously. The SGA voices the students' concerns and the school makes changes for the following class. Even I criticized SGU from time to time with my friends, but when it comes down to it, we knew that we weren't going to get top grade education coming here. We are all aware that we're gonna have to jump through hoops and perform much better than us students on step just for the same residency spot. No one here thinks otherwise. I'm thankful to have received an opportunity to pursue medicine but I know its still an uphill battle continuing forward. For those of you thinking about going to SGU, I can understand the fear, and uncertainty you may have. It is a huge step both in life and financially. The school wont hold your hand and it'll be upto you to survive and strive through the battles. If you are debating between going on KBT program vs Grenada, here are some information to consider. Living in Grenada can be more expensive than in europe KBT program because food and grocery is much more expensive here (unless you go to local markets). IMHO KBT had better professors and lectures. They also have smaller class and more tightly knit group. Since you're in europe, you'll have access to alot of good food and it'll be easy to travel during your breaks (which we couldnt do in Grenada). However, if you do KBT, you wont be able to do your residency in New Jersey. In conclusion, while Im praying for my cbse mark to be good enough for me to not go back, I still standby the statement that SGU was a good choice for myself or anyone else who's in a similar situation. Some specialty will be next to impossible, but you can still get into good number of programs. Just be realistic about your goals and as long as you put in work, SGU may provide you with the opportunity you're seeking.

 

[MedDoc305]

Term 5 ended yesterday and now that I'm home (and praying for my cbse marks to be ok) I've had some time to collect my thoughts on the term and SGU experience on the island as a whole. Again, take whatever numbers I post for what they are and don't take them as absolute numbers for anything as they are susceptible to external factors. Also, my experience with term 5 will be different with upcoming class as they are changing few things (for the better).

Class size: In the beginning of the term we had 371 in main cohort, as posted above, and by the end I couldnt get a solid consistent number as students used their skips on class lecture and imcq with high variability. As a result, I have no before and after clicker counts for this term. However, for bsce we had approximately 60 students taking completion exam, and word on the street is that about 30 people are confirmed for CR.

Term schedule: Term 5 adds in hospital rotation on top of labs and cpd. However, gone are the double labs (i heard they were gone for the term 3/4 as well), so we had much more "free" time. That being said, all the free time is supposed to be used for bsce and cbse prep. These are cumulative exams (ms1+ms2) so cramming it will no longer work. The staple of knowledge for these exams will be B&B, UWorld (some used Rx), and previous NBME exams. I had set my schedule so that I'd finish going through all of boards and beyond while annotating ~2.5weeks before bsce (using cramfighter ofc). After that my plan was to focus on using my annotated first aid to study for the rest of the term. The approach this term will depend on the individual. Some of my friends focused on the sgu exam in the beginning and then moved onto dedicated bsce/cbse prep after that exam since the pathophys lectures for my term was very low yield and not as helpful. The rest of us decided to sacrifice the first exam (worth 8% of the total grade) and focus on bsce and cbse right from the get go. I cant comment on which method is better since it really depends on the individual and their priority and method. For myself i decided focusing on the 45% and 35% exam was bigger priority even at the cost of 8% exam since I knew I'd need more than 6 weeks to prepare myself. While the BSCE for us was an 8 hour exam (300 q's, 150 book 1, 30min break, 150 book 2) for my term, they will be switching it 2 day exam where you take book 1 and then 4 weeks later you take book 2. Aside from that, the hospital rotations may not seem like a big deal initially, but it takes alot out of you. In the beginning I didnt think it'd tire me out for the rest of the day, but it did. So, I had to readjust my schedule and plan accordingly. Also, seeing how hospitals and doctors work in Grenada really makes you appreciate everything we have back home. I can expand on this for another 10 paragraph but I'll just say its a learning experience instead.

Living condition: I havent mentioned much of this in the previous 2 term reviews because I didnt feel that the change between each term was big enough to justify having this section. However, comparing living condition in term 1 vs term 5, there are alot of things to mention. When I first came here, there were 4 apartments near campus but these were pretty old and beat. However, as I was leaving this term, the amount of nice apartments that have come up, and are in development (or soon to be in development) is almost night and day difference comparing to how it was last year (currently 11). Most places now have card machine (I know this sounds ridiculous but really, not alot of places took card when I got here), and even though we dont have fast food chains still, there are more variety of food to try now. The school have also renovated old gym to a student centre, built a new dorm and put up a new building called belford, which houses the new gym. This place really looks like a resort from outside. The quality of life is definitely getting better each year.

Post 2 year thoughts on SGU: I know that even when I was asking in the beginning, people were saying how this route is a mistake and that it'll be very difficult to match. I can't confirm how much of it is true or not because I'm still not there yet. However, for people like myself who could not afford US medical school due to the tuition rate for international student (since Canadians are considered international and arent given any special rate for being northern neighbors), Caribbean is one of few routes left. SGU may not be as great as schools in Canada and States, but it isnt as bad of a school many of us make it out to believe. There are plenty of room for improvement for SGU and luckily they take the student survey very seriously. The SGA voices the students' concerns and the school makes changes for the following class. Even I criticized SGU from time to time with my friends, but when it comes down to it, we knew that we weren't going to get top grade education coming here. We are all aware that we're gonna have to jump through hoops and perform much better than us students on step just for the same residency spot. No one here thinks otherwise. I'm thankful to have received an opportunity to pursue medicine but I know its still an uphill battle continuing forward. For those of you thinking about going to SGU, I can understand the fear, and uncertainty you may have. It is a huge step both in life and financially. The school wont hold your hand and it'll be upto you to survive and strive through the battles. If you are debating between going on KBT program vs Grenada, here are some information to consider. Living in Grenada can be more expensive than in europe KBT program because food and grocery is much more expensive here (unless you go to local markets). IMHO KBT had better professors and lectures. They also have smaller class and more tightly knit group. Since you're in europe, you'll have access to alot of good food and it'll be easy to travel during your breaks (which we couldnt do in Grenada). However, if you do KBT, you wont be able to do your residency in New Jersey. In conclusion, while Im praying for my cbse mark to be good enough for me to not go back, I still standby the statement that SGU was a good choice for myself or anyone else who's in a similar situation. Some specialty will be next to impossible, but you can still get into good number of programs. Just be realistic about your goals and as long as you put in work, SGU may provide you with the opportunity you're seeking.

I appreciate your updates! This is a great view of the SGU world that will benefit those who are looking into the Carribean. Thanks again!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

However, for people like myself who could not afford US medical school due to the tuition rate for international student (since Canadians are considered international and arent given any special rate for being northern neighbors),

Is SGU Tuition different for Canadians? My sense was that the cost of SGU wasn't all that different than US schools.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Is SGU Tuition different for Canadians? My sense was that the cost of SGU wasn't all that different than US schools.

More than average US schools, though there are a few that are in the same ballpark. All told I ended up at $450k in loans after 4 years, and I think $275k of that is tuition alone. Decel'ing/repeating a class costs a bit as well, though less than a regular term. The cost of living in Grenada adds up very quick. For US citizens, you basically have to max out your loans every year to afford it.

 

[Chondroclast]

Is SGU Tuition different for Canadians? My sense was that the cost of SGU wasn't all that different than US schools.

I heard that the tuition can be adjusted based on the maximum loan amount you can get (for example, some Canadian banks won't give the full amount that SGU charges for 4 years). As a US citizen with federal loans, at SGU, I take out the maximum allowed, and yes it is a lot. I just finished my second year and between my undergrad, masters, and 2 years at SGU, i'm already at 390,000$ USD in debt. Scary indeed. It sure does light a fire under my butt to study and not drop out.

 

[fujiwara]

Is SGU Tuition different for Canadians? My sense was that the cost of SGU wasn't all that different than US schools.

After calculation SGU cost me 35k-37k USD per TERM, including administration and etc. So annually I was spending roughly 70k annually for tuition alone. For US schools, on average it was going to cost me 80K-85K ANNUALLY before administration and other fees so I took it being closer to 85K-90K (this number is from 2 years ago when I was last looking into US schools, so please take into consideration that changes may have happened since). This is not only for MD but DO schools as well. After 4 years you're looking at spending 210k-230k vs 250k-270K. The banks in Canada will loan UPTO 250k CAD max which is roughly 190k USD. Shelling out another 60k USD minimum was not easy for my family and I, hence making US unaffordable for myself.

EDIT: I realized I forgot to mention that SGU has an international bursary program for Canadians. This grants the applicant upto 40k I believe and it is spread out through your 4 years with SGU (5k deduction every term). To get some solid numbers I went into my bank statement and student account to check exactly how much I spent including admin, housing and all the extra fee's attached. T1 was 31k, T2 30k, T3/4 was 44k, and T5 was 36k all in USD. I spent roughly 60 CAD (45 USD) per week for grocery as well. Most school websites will provide you with cost including housing, books, etc. Posting my expense and sessional cost will hopefully give future applicants a better insight on what to expect on their spendings.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

After calculation SGU cost me 35k-37k USD per TERM, including administration and etc. So annually I was spending roughly 70k annually for tuition alone. For US schools, on average it was going to cost me 80K-85K ANNUALLY before administration and other fees so I took it being closer to 85K-90K (this number is from 2 years ago when I was last looking into US schools, so please take into consideration that changes may have happened since). This is not only for MD but DO schools as well. After 4 years you're looking at spending 210k-230k vs 250k-270K. The banks in Canada will loan UPTO 250k CAD max which is roughly 190k USD. Shelling out another 60k USD minimum was not easy for my family and I, hence making US unaffordable for myself.

Just a quick FYI: The most expensive DO school is CCOM and it's 74K a year in tuition. My school is only 42K a year in tuition. Most DO schools' tuition are going to be around 50K a year.

 

[fujiwara]

Just a quick FYI: The most expensive DO school is CCOM and it's 74K a year in tuition. My school is only 42K a year in tuition. Most DO schools' tuition are going to be around 50K a year.

MSU is more expensive than CCOM sitting around mid 80k but again, I dont know if policies for out of state students and international student tuition fees have changed since I last looked. To be fair I was only looking at Canadian friendly schools and as you mentioned, I do recall DO schools being cheaper than MD (mainly because of out of state vs in state tuition rate). I quickly ruled this route out since my primary interest is still returning to Canada so perhaps the schools I looked at 2 years ago (I remember looking at 3 or so with MSU as primary interest) were not enough to gauge the whole DO route tuition rate. My apologies for any recall bias.

EDIT: I wanted to go back and double check the numbers and at the time I probably looked at this table http://www.com.msu.edu/Students/Financial_Aid/17-18 Med Budgets-OM.pdf. As per DrStephenStrange's post CCOM is more expensive than MSU. For those Canadians interested, I went back and rechecked all their tuition rate for out of state rates. The cheapest school is currently TouroCOM roughly somewhere between 56k-57k for tuition alone and AZCOM at 71k. LMU will require you to have proof of financial support with 79k bank statement or something. Most DO schools are currently sitting at tuition rate of 59k-62k. Again, these are all out of state tuition fees (to the schools it applies to since some just have one tuition rate for all students).

 

[fujiwara]

I'm curious, did you look into Ireland/Australian/UK schools? The tuition is similar to Caribbean schools and they supposedly have better match rates to Canada. Since you're already in school I'd suggest getting a US residency first and then make your way to Canada. Statistically that's a much better option than matching through CARMs (Caribbean match rates are ~20% according to CARMs data). Admittedly I didn't read all your posts but just wanted to throw it out there.

I looked into all 3 before applying but I was not thorough with ireland/european route enough while looking into it. The only route I had detailed information was regarding Australia. The Australian route has several difficulties not only during rotation but also during residency especially for non-australians. Prior to attending SGU, I met with a friend of mine who was attending University of Melbourne medical school, and he said there were not enough clinical rotation spots for non australian students during their 3rd and 4th year. The hospitals were granting only limited number of spots for non australian residents which made 3rd and 4th year very difficult. Post graduation, obtaining residency in Canada is still very difficult and near impossible in Australia. With this much odds stacked up against me, I felt getting US spots from going to Caribbean would be much easier than getting Canadian or Australian spots. In regards to Ireland, I think I looked into it very briefly and saw the 5 or 6 year course banner on their website and I lost interest almost instantly despite finding out there was 4 year for those holding undergrad degree and mcat score. From there, I got pretty demotivated and slacked off on the research on UK route since I also found out that I missed the application deadline. I grew impatient at the thought of having to wait another year to start when I was already receiving interviews and acceptance from AUC, ROSS and SGU. Had I known then what I know now (in terms of learning experience, life style and etc), it is very likely that I would've made a very different choice.
In regards to returning to Canada, I have heard from multiple doctors (Ross, SGU, and SABA graduates) that its easier to return after completing residency in states and doing 1 year supervised practice. My cardiologist (AUC grad) also mentioned that many of his peers who did STEP and MCCQE, NAC+OSCE simulatneously managed to return without much trouble but this could be a exception to the case and etc. Considering fam med is one of my top choices, I'd like to believe that my chances to return to Canada is not impossibly low...