MD What are my chances of getting accepted? What should be my next steps?

[Kay_20]

Hello. I am a 23 year old pre-med student looking to be accepted into a US-MD program as soon as possible. I want to apply next year. I know that nobody cares about your age in med school, but personally I don't want to take longer than I have to and I'm a woman (I would like to marry and have my own family). I am working right now to improve myself as a candidate and willing to do anything that makes me more competitive.

I graduated with a B.S. in 2020 with a cumulative 2.8 GPA. I completed my freshman year at a community college and transferred to the university my sophomore year. I did well in community college but university was kind of a struggle. I do not like to dwell on it because its in the past and I will keep hating myself for it. After graduating, I enrolled in a CUNY school and took 5 additional courses. I plan on taking more because I have a strong feeling my GPA is inferior. I am currently studying for my MCAT and aiming for at least a 515. Listed below are my current GPA's for medical school. I calculated them using the Medschoolhq calculators:

- AMCAS sGPA included ALL Biology, Chemistry, Math and Physics courses.
- AACOMAS sGPA included ALL Biology, Chemistry, and Physics courses

Cumulative GPA	3.096
AMCAS sGPA	3.018
AACOMAS sGPA	3.037

Postbacc sGPA

3.273

1. I have no research experience. I am currently trying to find a virtual research position in a 1 year clinical study, but I have not been able to find anything. If there are any opportunities for this please list them below. It will be highly appreciated.

2. I currently have 207 hours of clinical shadowing/volunteering at a primary care clinic under an Internist. I go 1x a week for 8 hours and can work with them for as long as i need to with a guaranteed LOR. I will keep working with them until I can secure another shadowing opportunity elsewhere, (I am currently working on this and have been in contact with a neurologist who might have a space for me depending on how many medical students he has in his office).
- I also have 200 virtual clinical shadowing hours, with certificates to prove them. However, these are virtual so I do not think these hours are that important or impressive.

3. I have been working part-time for about 2 months as a medical scribe for a urologist. It has been going well and I only plan to work here until I get an acceptance. Should I ask him for a LOR once I am done? I want to be sure that medical schools would consider a letter like this important.

After analyzing my sGPA and cumulative GPA trends, it has only gone slightly upward. So I know that I have more work ahead of me. I just do not want to be a pre-med student forever, the thought of being in medical school at an age that I consider to be too old fills me with dread.

Thank you all for your time.

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[Faha]

Post your actual MCAT score here in the future and I will suggest schools.

 

[Kay_20]

Post your actual MCAT score here in the future and I will suggest schools.

Ok. So are my gpa's good enough for an MD program? I have been told to consider a post-bacc or masters

 

[deleted314957]

Ok. So are my gpa's good enough for an MD program? I have been told to consider a post-bacc or masters

That GPA is not really in allopathic territory. It is in osteopathic territory ASSUMING your MCAT is > 500.
A question; why do you make your assumptions based on an MCAT of 515? Your past academic performance makes that seem somewhat questionable you would obtain that. Now, I certainly do not want you to believe that is unobtainable. With the proper, rigorous study schedule and self discipline you can do that, and I hope you do. IF you do I think you would be a very good osteopathic candidate and have a long shot at allopathic schools.

Your posts are contradictory as regards your participation in a post baccalaureate program. Masters degrees are generally of little to no help and I would not waste my time or money.

It all hangs on that MCAT. Don’t take it until you are sure you can kick butt.

 

[Shotapp]

Ok. So are my gpa's good enough for an MD program? I have been told to consider a post-bacc or masters

Depends how you do on the MCAT. Your GPA isn't close to competitive for MD (just being honest here). You'd need to do a SMP, rock the program, and have a nice MCAT with the package to have a chance at MD.

 

[Kay_20]

Depends how you do on the MCAT. Your GPA isn't close to competitive for MD (just being honest here). You'd need to do a SMP, rock the program, and have a nice MCAT with the package to have a chance at MD.

Thanks for the feedback. what is an SMP?

 

[Shotapp]

Thanks for the feedback. what is an SMP?

Special masters program. It's typically a year long where you take courses that resemble the difficulty of medical school. Think of it like an audition or try out.

 

[GoSpursGo]

As others have said, at current you have no chance at MD schools. You need at least a year of 3.7+ with an outstanding MCAT to have a shot, and most likely then it will be DO.

More importantly, you need to figure out what is wrong with your current plan. This 3.2 you're getting is only digging you a deeper hole. If you don't do better this semester, I suggest you stop for a while, do something else with your life for a year, and come back later with a fresh perspective and better studying habits.

 

[Kay_20]

As others have said, at current you have no chance at MD schools. You need at least a year of 3.7+ with an outstanding MCAT to have a shot, and most likely then it will be DO.

More importantly, you need to figure out what is wrong with your current plan. This 3.2 you're getting is only digging you a deeper hole. If you don't do better this semester, I suggest you stop for a while, do something else with your life for a year, and come back later with a fresh perspective and better studying habits.

Thanks for the feedback. I am currently not taking classes but I might enroll in some next semester. I hope i can balance work and study. I feel like I do not have the time to stop for a while, i know I want to go to med school and I feel like i am wasting more time if i stop what i am doing. However, I do hope to get my GPA up to a 3.7 once I start taking classes again.

 

[candbgirl]

Thanks for the feedback. I am currently not taking classes but I might enroll in some next semester. I hope i can balance work and study. I feel like I do not have the time to stop for a while, i know I want to go to med school and I feel like i am wasting more time if i stop what i am doing. However, I do hope to get my GPA up to a 3.7 once I start taking classes again.

It will be impossible for you to get your GPA up to 3.7. You’d have to take dozens of classes and earn As in all of them. At this point you have to try to convince ADCOMS that you are up to the rigors of med school. You do that bystringing together 3-4 semesters of full time course work (upper division science) where you have a cGPA of 3.7+.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thanks for the feedback. I am currently not taking classes but I might enroll in some next semester. I hope i can balance work and study. I feel like I do not have the time to stop for a while, i know I want to go to med school and I feel like i am wasting more time if i stop what i am doing. However, I do hope to get my GPA up to a 3.7 once I start taking classes again.

I assume you mean what @candbgirl is suggesting and saying that you would get 3.7+ going forward, not get your overall GPA that high.

I get that you feel anxious to start med school ASAP, but you also need to consider that if you keep taking classes and keep getting the same 3.2ish result then you are still wasting your time, only you're actively digging a deeper hole. You need to come up with a concrete plan for how to do better, because plans that are just "try harder" or "pull myself up by my bootstraps" usually don't work.

 

[Kay_20]

I assume you mean what @candbgirl is suggesting and saying that you would get 3.7+ going forward, not get your overall GPA that high.

I get that you feel anxious to start med school ASAP, but you also need to consider that if you keep taking classes and keep getting the same 3.2ish result then you are still wasting your time, only you're actively digging a deeper hole. You need to come up with a concrete plan for how to do better, because plans that are just "try harder" or "pull myself up by my bootstraps" usually don't work.

Thanks for the feedback. I am looking at upper level bio courses i can take. I understand that my focus has to be on my post-bacc GPA, if I can bring it up to at least a 3.7 and have a decent MCAT score, I think I have a good chance at an MD program.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thanks for the feedback. I am looking at upper level bio courses i can take. I understand that my focus has to be on my post-bacc GPA, if I can bring it up to at least a 3.7 and have a decent MCAT score, I think I have a good chance at an MD program.

Depending on your state of residence. In general DO schools are more forgiving of reinvention than MD schools.

 

[Kay_20]

Depending on your state of residence. In general DO schools are more forgiving of reinvention than MD schools.

i live in NY, the northeast is very competitive region so Im trying to make sure that I have what is necessary to be a good candidate.

 

[GoSpursGo]

i live in NY, the northeast is very competitive region so Im trying to make sure that I have what is necessary to be a good candidate.

When you apply you absolutely need to include DO schools on your list

 

[Kay_20]

When you apply you absolutely need to include DO schools on your list

Ok. I have 3 that are on my list. In your experience, are Northeast medical schools ok with reinvented students?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Ok. I have 3 that are on my list. In your experience, are Northeast medical schools ok with reinvented students?

I honestly don't know about specific schools or regional trends. But in general, DO schools are more forgiving. I would probably have more than 3 and expand your geographic area, given your stats.

 

[deleted314957]

Before you get carried away with “school choice excitement” you need to take a deep breath and get a PLAN of how you are going to deal with your past hx of a very low GPA and your foreword assumptions of a 3.7 in upper level grad level sciences and pull a 517 or 515 MCAT. I am not trying to rain on your parade but all i’ve heard is dreamy speculation with lots of encouragement from others.
I would stop mulling over schools and admissions at this point and learn to study and make a real plan. Same with the mcat. You are going to have to row across the Atlantic ocean to do this. But only you can do it. Sorry, but I can’t blow sunshine up your a**.

 

[candbgirl]

Before you get carried away with “school choice excitement” you need to take a deep breath and get a PLAN of how you are going to deal with your past hx of a very low GPA and your foreword assumptions of a 3.7 in upper level grad level sciences and pull a 517 or 515 MCAT. I am not trying to rain on your parade but all i’ve heard is dreamy speculation with lots of encouragement from others.
I would stop mulling over schools and admissions at this point and learn to study and make a real plan. Same with the mcat. You are going to have to row across the Atlantic ocean to do this. But only you can do it. Sorry, but I can’t blow sunshine up your a**.

THIS!^^^^
You won’t be ready to apply for a few years so get used to that idea. You have a lot to do to get your application together. You have shared your very low GPAs but you haven’t mentioned any ECs. How are they going? What have you accomplished and in what areas? I know you mention several remote activities. Shadowing is very different than clinical experiences. And you didn’t mention nonclinical volunteering at all. And of course there is the MCAT.
Did you know that each cycle only about 40% of all applicants are accepted to med school and about half of that are accepted to only one school. That means 60% of all applicants are outright rejected. This includes people with stellar applications. So the chances for you being accepted are very low based on what you have shared with us. Of course you can continue down this career path but you need to realize that there are absolutely no guarantees of an acceptance and you should always have a backup plan.

 

[Kay_20]

THIS!^^^^
You won’t be ready to apply for a few years so get used to that idea. You have a lot to do to get your application together. You have shared your very low GPAs but you haven’t mentioned any ECs. How are they going? What have you accomplished and in what areas? I know you mention several remote activities. Shadowing is very different than clinical experiences. And you didn’t mention nonclinical volunteering at all. And of course there is the MCAT.
Did you know that each cycle only about 40% of all applicants are accepted to med school and about half of that are accepted to only one school. That means 60% of all applicants are outright rejected. This includes people with stellar applications. So the chances for you being accepted are very low based on what you have shared with us. Of course you can continue down this career path but you need to realize that there are absolutely no guarantees of an acceptance and you should always have a backup plan.

For a few years? This concerns me, I don't think it should take that long to get an acceptance, I'm also not trying to be a pre-med student forever, I'm already 23 years old. I am trying to step on the gas and accelerate things by doing as much as I can at the same time.

My clinical volunteering at the primary care clinic has been going well. I recognize a good portion of their patients and interact with them every week when I'm there, the staff like me, we get along well and they have known my family for a long time. I started in May 2021 and currently have 207 hours and will keep working with them for as long as I need.
- The only relevant nonclinical volunteering I have is from undergrad with a nursing organization that I was the Treasurer of. Now that I am 1 year post-grad I am hyper-focused on clinical experiences. I always believed these were more substantial to medical schools than nonclinical (not saying nonclinical EC's don't matter)
- I am currently in contact with a Neurologist about volunteering at the hospital he works at. I have already gave him the completed volunteer forms so I am waiting for a response. This will also give me an opportunity to shadow alongside him with other medical students.
- So with my current commitments (part time job, volunteering and studying for the MCAT) I am trying to do as much as possible and continue to look for more ways that can make me stand out.

If this medical career does not work out, I have considered a Physician Assistant program. I just hope I am not too old by then.

 

[frosted2]

I am 28 and a MS1 (and female). You cannot rush this process, it will only cost you money applying when you are not a suitable candidate. You are plenty young enough to improve your GPA and study hard for the MCAT. As others above have said, a SMP is most likely your best (and quickest) option to getting a good GPA to show adcomms that you are able to handle the rigors of medical school. A SMP would take about a year. Traditional "taking upper division science courses" would likely require 2 years. Also, keep in mind that you apply a year before you start... so people discussing applications right now are not going to start school until July/August of 2022.

It is great that you are getting clinical hours, but do not let that fool you-- that is only part of the application. You won't be able to talk about it if your GPA is screened out during the primary application.

If you are concerned about age and starting a family, PA is an excellent choice. It also provides a lot of flexibility in terms of time commitment... not to mention, school is only 2 years. You could likely be in and out of PA school before you'd even be starting medical school if you approached the medical school application cycle like you should.

 

[Kay_20]

I am 28 and a MS1 (and female). You cannot rush this process, it will only cost you money applying when you are not a suitable candidate. You are plenty young enough to improve your GPA and study hard for the MCAT. As others above have said, a SMP is most likely your best (and quickest) option to getting a good GPA to show adcomms that you are able to handle the rigors of medical school. A SMP would take about a year. Traditional "taking upper division science courses" would likely require 2 years. Also, keep in mind that you apply a year before you start... so people discussing applications right now are not going to start school until July/August of 2022.

It is great that you are getting clinical hours, but do not let that fool you-- that is only part of the application. You won't be able to talk about it if your GPA is screened out during the primary application.

If you are concerned about age and starting a family, PA is an excellent choice. It also provides a lot of flexibility in terms of time commitment... not to mention, school is only 2 years. You could likely be in and out of PA school before you'd even be starting medical school if you approached the medical school application cycle like you should.

The SMP programs are costly and too high risk for me. I need to increase my post-bacc GPA since that's the only GPA I can improve. Also, going to PA school would be a waste of time and money, I just want to be accepted to an MD program.
- Taking upper division science courses in my case, would take me 1 year. I have listed out additional courses I can take that will help prepare me for med school and have divided them over the course of 2 semesters. Provided I get all A's, I would increase my postbacc GPA to a 3.7.

 

[frosted2]

Someone else here correct me if I am wrong because it has been a minute since I applied... but I believe that your cGPA and sGPA are the combination of ALL undergrad work. Post-bacc just means any credits earned after your bachelors degree. How did you calculate that you can raise your GPA .5 points in one year? How many credits are you going to take vs. how many credits do you already have? It take a lot of time and work to move a GPA that much.

Also, SMP is high risk because it is high reward... you can fix a sub-par GPA in a fraction of the time, and it shows med schools without a doubt that you can handle the curriculum. My SMP was hard. Harder than med school content wise... but the volume still somehow doesn't even compare.

 

[candbgirl]

Someone else here correct me if I am wrong because it has been a minute since I applied... but I believe that your cGPA and sGPA are the combination of ALL undergrad work. Post-bacc just means any credits earned after your bachelors degree. How did you calculate that you can raise your GPA .5 points in one year? How many credits are you going to take vs. how many credits do you already have? It take a lot of time and work to move a GPA that much.

Also, SMP is high risk because it is high reward... you can fix a sub-par GPA in a fraction of the time, and it shows med schools without a doubt that you can handle the curriculum. My SMP was hard. Harder than med school content wise... but the volume still somehow doesn't even compare.

People have tried to explain this to OP with absolutely no luck. I don’t think OP has any understanding of the med school application process or how far in the hole they really are. You are correct in saying the post bacc grades are rolled into the undergrad GPAs. They are listed separately but the grades will all be averaged together. Unless she takes tons of upper level science classes her GPAs will hardly move. Additionally a 3.0xx sGPA indicates a big gap in scientific knowledge . She has been told not to take the MCAT until she is ready but she is plowing ahead and plans to get a 515 at least. And she won’t even consider DO schools which she might have difficulty with too. So there really isn’t anything else to say.

 

[ethereal_fae]

OP seems to be waiting for someone to tell her what she wants to hear, not what she needs to hear. The truth is OP I don't think you're ready to apply next year. You say it'd be a waste of time and money to apply PA but it's even more of a waste of time and money to apply to MD schools when you're not ready. It doesn't seem possible at all to increase your cGPA from 2.8 to 3.7 in a year - that's impossible because your undergrad and post-bacc GPAs will be averaged together. Your ECs seem weak to average at best as well. 23 is no way near being too old - I'll be 30 by the time I apply - so there's really no rush. You should take the time necessary to make sure your app is as strong as possible so you hopefully only have to apply once. Consider DO schools too

 

[Kay_20]

People have tried to explain this to OP with absolutely no luck. I don’t think OP has any understanding of the med school application process or how far in the whole they really are. You are correct in saying the post bacc grades are rolled into the undergrad GPAs. They are listed separately but the grades will all be averaged together. Unless she takes tons of upper level science classes her GPAs will hardly move. Additionally a 3.0xx sGPA indicates a big gap in scientific knowledge . She has been told not to take the MCAT until she is ready but she is plowing ahead and plans to get a 515 at least. And she won’t even consider DO schools which she might have difficulty with too. So there really isn’t anything else to say.

thanks for the feedback.
1. I did not know that the post bacc grades are averaged into the undergrad GPA's. This makes me even more worried now.
2. Also, I am aware that I should not take the MCAT until I'm ready. I am studying right now and I am taking things much slower compared to before. I am hoping for a March or April date at this point.
3. I don't have a strong understanding of the application process now that I am learning about more things. This i can admit. I have done some research and the high risk of an SMP program does scare me a bit, but I do have to consider it.

I am just trying to make sure that I don't make myself stagnant in this process.

 

[Means]

Ultimately no one will know what your chances are until you have an actual MCAT score, but your current stats give you a very slim chance at an MD acceptance, and not much of a better chance at a DO acceptance. If you don't absolutely crush the MCAT you are going to have a very rough time applying. Focus all your energy on the MCAT, your future is relying on it. As a side note, your GPA and healthcare experience are also not competitive for PA school.

 

[deleted314957]

For a few years? This concerns me, I don't think it should take that long to get an acceptance, I'm also not trying to be a pre-med student forever, I'm already 23 years old. I am trying to step on the gas and accelerate things by doing as much as I can at the same time.

My clinical volunteering at the primary care clinic has been going well. I recognize a good portion of their patients and interact with them every week when I'm there, the staff like me, we get along well and they have known my family for a long time. I started in May 2021 and currently have 207 hours and will keep working with them for as long as I need.
- The only relevant nonclinical volunteering I have is from undergrad with a nursing organization that I was the Treasurer of. Now that I am 1 year post-grad I am hyper-focused on clinical experiences. I always believed these were more substantial to medical schools than nonclinical (not saying nonclinical EC's don't matter)
- I am currently in contact with a Neurologist about volunteering at the hospital he works at. I have already gave him the completed volunteer forms so I am waiting for a response. This will also give me an opportunity to shadow alongside him with other medical students.
- So with my current commitments (part time job, volunteering and studying for the MCAT) I am trying to do as much as possible and continue to look for more ways that can make me stand out.

If this medical career does not work out, I have considered a Physician Assistant program. I just hope I am not too old by then.

It takes a hell of a lot less time to become a PA than it does to become any kind of physician specialist.

 

[deleted314957]

The SMP programs are costly and too high risk for me. I need to increase my post-bacc GPA since that's the only GPA I can improve. Also, going to PA school would be a waste of time and money, I just want to be accepted to an MD program.
- Taking upper division science courses in my case, would take me 1 year. I have listed out additional courses I can take that will help prepare me for med school and have divided them over the course of 2 semesters. Provided I get all A's, I would increase my postbacc GPA to a 3.7.

OK. I guess you just don’t like advice.

 

[Kay_20]

OK. I guess you just don’t like advice.

I do. I am just trying to figure out what's the best way to move forward.

 

[deleted314957]

I do. I am just trying to figure out what's the best way to move forward.

Well, hell’s bells, how many people must provide their WELL INFORMED opinions to help you figure out what’s the best way to move forward?

 

[candbgirl]

Well, hell’s bells, how many people must provide their WELL INFORMED opinions to help you figure out what’s the best way to move forward?

Until we tell her exactly what she wants to hear she’s going to disregard what we are saying. And that’s her business. In three years she’ll be back seeking advice.

 

[Kay_20]

Well, hell’s bells, how many people must provide their WELL INFORMED opinions to help you figure out what’s the best way to move forward?

I do not appreciate the way you are speaking to me. If you like don't respond to this thread anymore. I did not come here to be judged or demeaned for wanting to save time on my journey to an MD.

 

[chuckmasters]

OP, I understand the pressure, but you really need to buckle down on your academics. As @Goro would say, a 3.0X is circling the drain for DO and is lethal for MD. And let's not forget how many a sub 510 MCAT tanked 3.5X GPAs dreams for allopathic schools, so DO schools are an absolute MUST if not the only schools (except state schools) to apply to, but if OP is URM, this might help with Drexel/Albany/NYMC caliber schools, pending a 510+ MCAT.

Let's get the heavy guns adcoms here.

Tagging:
@Goro - DO adcom
@gyngyn - high-ranked non stat-hog school MD school
@Catalystik - MD adcom
@Mr.Smile12 - Unsure DO or MD adcom.

Kind of wanted to tag LizzyM, but I heard she works for a "stats-hog" school, so I'm not sure what she would think of this scenario.

 

[deleted314957]

I do not appreciate the way you are speaking to me. If you like don't respond to this thread anymore. I did not come here to be judged or demeaned for wanting to save time on my journey to an MD.

Look, I am not judging or demeaning you. I am giving you an opinion based on 48 + years of experience from applicant to now. Take it or leave it. I’m tired of your immaturity. We will just block each other. OK?

 

[Kay_20]

I have not once been immature in this thread. Blocking works just fine for me.

 

[chuckmasters]

Or how about this OP, if you are hell-bent on becoming a physician ASAP, apply DO next cycle and see how it shakes out, pending a 505-510 MCAT.

I understand the stigma of DO for uber-competitive specialties, but seriously, there's a reason why stat-hog schools exist (because high MCAT is adequate to good at predicting high Step 2 scores). If you fail to clean up your act for MCAT, coupled with the GPA, that's a good sign you will most likely not match for competitive specialties. On a positive note, if you absolutely want to do primary care, Ob-Gyn, psychiatry, etc, DO or MD makes (almost) no difference (only catch is you take COMLEX instead of USMLE and have to learn OMM).

 

[charactercomic2]

I do not appreciate the way you are speaking to me. If you like don't respond to this thread anymore. I did not come here to be judged or demeaned for wanting to save time on my journey to an MD.

If OP can't handle criticism over their chances and outlooks in an online and anonymous setting, it would not fare well in medicine where you must not only thrive on it, but repeatedly face one of the highest levels of scrutiny in any profession

 

[Goro]

Ok. I have 3 that are on my list. In your experience, are Northeast medical schools ok with reinvented students?

1) Read this:

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

Like it or not, you're in a marathon now, not a sprint. Your GPAs are lethal for MD, and as mentioned above, circling the drain for my DO school. And as a reinventor, you will need to have DO schools on the list, as beggars can't be choosy.

You're looking at some 2-3 years before getting into med school.

And yes, there are MD schools that reward reinvention, including Netter, Dartmouth, Hofstra, Columbia, NYMC, U VM, the Philly Triplets, and Albany.

 

[deleted314957]

Or how about this OP, if you are hell-bent on becoming a physician ASAP, apply DO next cycle and see how it shakes out, pending a 505-510 MCAT.

I understand the stigma of DO for uber-competitive specialties, but seriously, there's a reason why stat-hog schools exist (because high MCAT is adequate to good at predicting high Step 2 scores). If you fail to clean up your act for MCAT, coupled with the GPA, that's a good sign you will most likely not match for competitive specialties. On a positive note, if you absolutely want to do primary care, Ob-Gyn, psychiatry, etc, DO or MD makes (almost) no difference (only catch is you take COMLEX instead of USMLE and have to learn OMM).

Not true for psych anymore.

 

[chuckmasters]

Huh go figure, but I was gunning for academic radiology, so I'm not particularly concerned about the other specialties, but good to know anyways.

 

[deleted314957]

This has “Caribbean “ written all over it.

 

[candbgirl]

This has “Caribbean “ written all over it.

They’ll be happy to have her ASAP and then dump her ASAP. Nothing good can happen with rushing the process.

 

[frosted2]

That would be a quick turnaround for them if that is the case. Hopefully OP takes the plethora of advice above.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Not much more I can add. Check out all the careers in health care. "Doctor or bust" does not always work out.