What are my chances of getting into med school? (marks inside)

[myst]

I have heard U of A (alberta) is a very tough school.. much tougher than most other universities in canada

I have heard U of A (alberta) is a very tough school.. much tougher than most other universities in canada

Heres are my grades (1st year was on the 9 point scale)

Biol 107 	INTRODUCTION TO CELL BIOLOGY	8
Chem 101 	INTRO UNIV CHEM I		8
Chem 161 	ORGANIC CHEMISTRY I		7
Econ 101	INTRODUCTION TO MICROECONOMICS	8
ENGL  101A	CRITICAL READING AND WRITING	6 
ENGL  101B	CRITICAL READING AND WRITING	6
Biol 108	ORGANISMS IN THEIR ENVIRONMENT	7
Chem 163	ORGANIC CHEM II			7
Stats 151	INTRO TO APPLIED STATISTICS I	7
Chem 102	ORGANISMS IN THEIR ENVIRONMENT	7

Bioch 203	INTRODUCTION BIOCHEMISTRY I	A-
Biol 207	MOLECULAR GENETICS & HEREDITY	C+
Math 114	ELEMENTARY CALCULUS I		B
Micrb 265	GENERAL MICROBIOLOG		A-
Phil 120	SYMBOLIC LOGIC I		B+
Phys 124	PARTICLES AND WAVES		B
Bioch 205	INTRODUCTION BIOCHEMISTRY II	B-
Biol 201	EUKARYOTIC CELLULAR BIOLOGY	B
Biol 208	PRINCIPLES OF ECOLOGY		C+
Genet 270	FOUNDATIONS MOLECULAR GENETICS	B
Imin 200	INFECTION AND IMMUNITY		C+

Cmput 114	INTRO TO COMPUTING SCIENCE	B+
Genet 301	ORGANIZATION OF SIMPLE GENOMES	B
Genet 304	GENE EXPRESSION & REGULATION	B+
Genet 390	GENE MANIPULATION		B
Imin 371	INTRODUCTION TO IMMUNOLOGY	B-
Micrb 311	MICROBIAL PHYSIOLOGY		B

Most prereqs for med school I took in 1st year.

If I get an exceptionally high MCAT score, what are my chances of getting into ANY medical university, be it in the US, Europe, etc? Do I even stand a chance? (Note that for 2 semesters, I took 6 instead of the 5 'full' courseload)

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[Pontifex Maximus]

Can you explain the 9 point system? I'm no expert, but I think they'd have to be worried about not a single A on the list.

 

[sscooterguy]

Let me give you some statistics from US schools for last year: 35,000 applicants, about 16,000 matriculants. Of those, there were 665 foreign applicants to US schools with a total of 108 matriculants. Realistically, it is very difficult as a foreign resident to get into a US school, not to mention extra expensive. Is it doable, yes 108 people got in. I don't know how UA grades or the caliber of the school in comparison to US programs, but to tell you the truth, I don't know of many non us med students. Good luck with your plans, but know that it is very competative as a foreign undergrad in the US. Here's a link to get more applicant/matriculant information: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/

sscooterguy

 

[myst]

wow..

so with my grades I basically dont have a chance?

 

[LADoc00]

wow..

so with my grades I basically dont have a chance?

I started crying once when I got my only B- so if I had your college experience, I would be a basketcase. It looks like you are 3.0 or even sub 3.0

Umm good luck, maybe try to squeeze out a Nobel Prize winning Nature paper or something.

 

[tigress]

Gosh, people are being harsh on you
Yes, you have bad grades. But you can still be a doctor if that's what you want. You'll just have to work harder. You may have to do more coursework after college. You may have to spend a few years working and during that time volunteer, take courses and get good marks, basically prove that you really really want to be a doctor. And after that's said and done, if you can ace the MCAT, you can probably eventually get into med school. It won't be a top school probably, but who cares? And if you can't get into a Canadian school, you can try other places in the world.

basically, it depends on how much you want to be a doctor...if you really really really want this, you can do it

 

[GaryM]

If you ultimately want to practice in Canada, the best route for you would be try to get into a Canadian medical school. The reason is because if you leave Canada to go to med school, it will be difficult to return to practice.
I would recommend that you kick some ass in your fourth year and then do a MSc. With a graduate degree, you will increase your chances of admission greatly.
However, if you wouldn't mind practicing in the U.S. for a few years after you graduate, then with your grades you could definately get into a Caribbean school- but go only as a LAST RESORT!!! I have not heard of any Caribbean graduates that have returned to Canada. You can go to www.valuemd.com for more info.
You could also apply to schools in Ireland. There are a lot of Canadian students that study there. You should check out: www.atlanticbridge.com
Even if you go this route, I think that practicing in Canada after you graduate would be difficult.
It all depends on where you want to end up practicing, however, the bottom line is: If you want to practice in Canada, try everything you can to get into a Canadian school before you start exploring the option of studying elsewhere!!

 

[IRV]

The MCAT is the great equilizer. Sure, your grades are lower than the mean, but people like you still get into medical school. If you kick butt on the MCAT, you can explain your grades. Medical schools actually like to see students who have struggled and overcome. The important thing is to overcome. You can do it, just don't let up!

 

[Soleilpie]

Some people trying to tell you like it is, fail to do it diplomatically. Your grades are not "bad." In fact, your grades are pretty average. Having said that, medical school is very competitive, even for those who have above average grades. I suspect it will be more difficult than the norm for you; however I don't think it's impossible. At times, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for how some students are selected for medical school. I believe your best bet may be to take and ace some additional classes to prove you can handle the course load for medical school. And yes, definitely try to ace the MCAT. Keep your head up and don't let anyone damper your spirits. If you want to be a doctor, then do what you have to, to get there.

 

[myst]

thanks for the help guys

anyone have any stories on people studying outside the country?

 

[ntmed]

... If you kick butt on the MCAT...

This is a big if. It's very hard to do well on the MCAT if you didn't get A's in your premed courses.

If you want to be a doctor, you still can, as long as you can turn things around academically.

But it will take more than a single test (ie, the MCAT). It will likely take you 2 or 4 years. It will require you to retake all of your premed courses where you didn't get an A, and posibly to complete a graduate degree in biology. And you'll need to get all A's from this point on, or very close to this.

If you want to study outside the US and Canada, it will be easier. But only about 25% of IMGs are able to practice medicine in the US.

 

[manfood.com]

This is a big if. It's very hard to do well on the MCAT if you didn't get A's in your premed courses.

If you want to be a doctor, you still can, as long as you can turn things around academically. I explain this in detail on my web site under the link "Second Chance".

But it will take more than a single test (ie, the MCAT). It will likely take you 2 or 4 years. It will require you to retake all of your premed courses where you didn't get an A, and posibly to complete a graduate degree in biology. And you'll need to get all A's from this point on, or very close to this.

If you want to study outside the US and Canada, it will be easier. But only about 25% of IMGs are able to practice medicine in the US.

wtf? it's hard to do well on the mcat if you didn't get a's in your premed courses? are you kidding? give me a freaking break..... help a guy out don't dig him a deeper hole. Man... just work your tail off from here on out and you got a chance, just like the rest us. Keep on truckin'.

 

[kash_711]

This is a big if. It's very hard to do well on the MCAT if you didn't get A's in your premed courses.

If you want to be a doctor, you still can, as long as you can turn things around academically. I explain this in detail on my web site under the link "Second Chance".

But it will take more than a single test (ie, the MCAT). It will likely take you 2 or 4 years. It will require you to retake all of your premed courses where you didn't get an A, and posibly to complete a graduate degree in biology. And you'll need to get all A's from this point on, or very close to this.

If you want to study outside the US and Canada, it will be easier. But only about 25% of IMGs are able to practice medicine in the US.

A question, so what if you are an american that graduates abroad? Can't you come back home considering you pass the boards or whatever the test is and get a residency. Or does the 25% also hold water for american citizens?

 

[KosmoKramer]

A question, so what if you are an american that graduates abroad? Can't you come back home considering you pass the boards or whatever the test is and get a residency. Or does the 25% also hold water for american citizens?

This rule holds TRUE for americans that study at foreign schools. In the past 20 years or so pathology has not been very competative at all (starting this year it has totally switched), but this is beside the point. In any case, I have been doing some work in the path department at my school, and there are several foreign grads that are american. They tell me that the only reason that they were able to get into a top program was that pathology was not competative at the time, and also they ROCKED the boards. They are all great residents, but have ALL told me that even with their score on the boards, they would not have been able to match in competative residencies such as emergency med (only taking 4% fmg), ENT (virtually none), Derm (virtually none), Optho (virtually none), and other "competative" residencies, as most will rank american grads with much lower boards higher than foreign grads. Now there are exceptions, but I feel that this is GENERALLY the rule. However, according to FREIDA, internal med has almost 50% of the spots filled by IMG, however, upon closer research, most of the competative internal med programs (cardiology, IM/Emergency, IM/GastroIntestinal, IM/Peds) are filled virtually with american med students only. There are also many spots for other specialties, and you should do the research at http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcindx/0,,TR,00.html This post is not to discourage people from going to foreign medical schools, or to discourage FMGs to apply for competative residencies, its just to let you all know the numbers and let you make educated decisions.

 

[kash_711]

This rule holds TRUE for americans that study at foreign schools. In the past 20 years or so pathology has not been very competative at all (starting this year it has totally switched), but this is beside the point. In any case, I have been doing some work in the path department at my school, and there are several foreign grads that are american. They tell me that the only reason that they were able to get into a top program was that pathology was not competative at the time, and also they ROCKED the boards. They are all great residents, but have ALL told me that even with their score on the boards, they would not have been able to match in competative residencies such as emergency med (only taking 4% fmg), ENT (virtually none), Derm (virtually none), Optho (virtually none), and other "competative" residencies, as most will rank american grads with much lower boards higher than foreign grads. Now there are exceptions, but I feel that this is GENERALLY the rule. However, according to FREIDA, internal med has almost 50% of the spots filled by IMG, however, upon closer research, most of the competative internal med programs (cardiology, IM/Emergency, IM/GastroIntestinal, IM/Peds) are filled virtually with american med students only. There are also many spots for other specialties, and you should do the research at http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcindx/0,,TR,00.html This post is not to discourage people from going to foreign medical schools, or to discourage FMGs to apply for competative residencies, its just to let you all know the numbers and let you make educated decisions.

so what does an american foriegn grad do?
get residency outside and then come back to the states?

i mean an american is going to want to come back to america, so its hard for me to comprehend trhe assertion that a majority of american students attending school abroad cannot come back at practice in the UNited states. But you are probably talking about residency's.

Basically my point is there are a surplus of residency spots so wouldn't/should't an american studying abroad with respectable scores have an advantage over a foreign born medical student?

 

[KosmoKramer]

American foreign grads usually go into less competative residencies, and if they want to go into competative subspecialties, they do fellowships later on if they do well, and still have the desire. I believe 20% of surg residencies got to FMGs. After finishing you can do a fellowship in a subspecialty. These are competative yes, but less weight will be put on your medical school training, and more on what you have done since then. However on the other hand, cardiology and GI fellowships for Internal med are very very competative, and generally the programs that offer these fellowships mostly take their own residents, making their IM residency competative. FMGs USUALLY, not always as I have stated before, go to smaller community hospital or non top ranked academic residency programs. Other routes that FMGs take to get into programs are to do their rotations at the program that they are going for. This is common. It allows you to get to know the attendings, show them how much you know, and get a foot in the door. This will usually get FMGs an interview at least, but I am not sure about the statistics of actually getting the residency. I hope this info helps.

 

[Potato!]

This is a big if. It's very hard to do well on the MCAT if you didn't get A's in your premed courses.

If you want to be a doctor, you still can, as long as you can turn things around academically. I explain this in detail on my web site under the link "Second Chance".

But it will take more than a single test (ie, the MCAT). It will likely take you 2 or 4 years. It will require you to retake all of your premed courses where you didn't get an A, and posibly to complete a graduate degree in biology. And you'll need to get all A's from this point on, or very close to this.

If you want to study outside the US and Canada, it will be easier. But only about 25% of IMGs are able to practice medicine in the US.

Hey Myst,

Don't listen to this. You don't need to retake all those pre-reqs to do well on the MCAT. There are people on SDN who had 3.0 GPAs or lower during their undergraduate years and still got 38 or 39 on their MCAT. One guy on this board, his username is "liverotcod" had a GPA of 2.95 and scored a 39Q on the MCAT. Not everyone can do it, but if you were slacking a little bit during your first years, or you had some other more important stuff going during your life in undergrad, then you probably didn't put out your best performance. So if you can really apply yourself for the MCAT, you can kick ass on it. Good luck!

 

[teamballs]

Well,
By all of my calculations, you have a 63.7% chance of getting in with a 95% confidence interval of 48.9-71.7, p-value 0.04, which makes this result statistically significant for those of you who aren't masters of statistics. Good luck!

 

[cfdavid]

Perhaps you should take some post-bac classes even before taking the MCAT. That way, your MCAT will be fairly new when you apply, assuming you decide to take some additional classes to get the GPA up.

You can absolutely go to med school. But, maybe some time off working and taking some classes to get the GPA up is in order. Then, kick butt on the MCAT. As long as you can take 16-20 credits post-bac, and get really good grades (pretty much A's), you can always explain away the not as good undergrad performance (but by no means is it terrible).

Also, don't forget that personal stuff and EC's are considered. But, the fact remains that you need to get your foot in first. And this is numbers based.
But, you can get in. It'll just take a bit longer, maybe. (maybe not)

 

[lemurlover]

I have heard U of A (alberta) is a very tough school.. much tougher than most other universities in canada

I have heard U of A (alberta) is a very tough school.. much tougher than most other universities in canada

Heres are my grades (1st year was on the 9 point scale)

Biol 107 	INTRODUCTION TO CELL BIOLOGY	8
Chem 101 	INTRO UNIV CHEM I		8
Chem 161 	ORGANIC CHEMISTRY I		7
Econ 101	INTRODUCTION TO MICROECONOMICS	8
ENGL  101A	CRITICAL READING AND WRITING	6 
ENGL  101B	CRITICAL READING AND WRITING	6
Biol 108	ORGANISMS IN THEIR ENVIRONMENT	7
Chem 163	ORGANIC CHEM II			7
Stats 151	INTRO TO APPLIED STATISTICS I	7
Chem 102	ORGANISMS IN THEIR ENVIRONMENT	7

Bioch 203	INTRODUCTION BIOCHEMISTRY I	A-
Biol 207	MOLECULAR GENETICS & HEREDITY	C+
Math 114	ELEMENTARY CALCULUS I		B
Micrb 265	GENERAL MICROBIOLOG		A-
Phil 120	SYMBOLIC LOGIC I		B+
Phys 124	PARTICLES AND WAVES		B
Bioch 205	INTRODUCTION BIOCHEMISTRY II	B-
Biol 201	EUKARYOTIC CELLULAR BIOLOGY	B
Biol 208	PRINCIPLES OF ECOLOGY		C+
Genet 270	FOUNDATIONS MOLECULAR GENETICS	B
Imin 200	INFECTION AND IMMUNITY		C+

Cmput 114	INTRO TO COMPUTING SCIENCE	B+
Genet 301	ORGANIZATION OF SIMPLE GENOMES	B
Genet 304	GENE EXPRESSION & REGULATION	B+
Genet 390	GENE MANIPULATION		B
Imin 371	INTRODUCTION TO IMMUNOLOGY	B-
Micrb 311	MICROBIAL PHYSIOLOGY		B

Most prereqs for med school I took in 1st year.

If I get an exceptionally high MCAT score, what are my chances of getting into ANY medical university, be it in the US, Europe, etc? Do I even stand a chance? (Note that for 2 semesters, I took 6 instead of the 5 'full' courseload)

while your grades weren't tops, you did take a high courseload. b's are not the end of the world. you may want to retake some classes, i.e. reading and writing and infectious diseases. also, volunteer at a hospital a lot. and keep applying if you don't make it right away. do everything to show dedication. you'll serve a lot of folks along the way. and there are lots of options in medicine, like nurse practitioner, p.a., clinical scientist. you'll find something.