What are my chances with an academic dishonesty?

[gonzoball]

I am having trouble deciphering the quality of my application, can anyone offer some constructive help? I am a senior in college pondering to take two gap years. 510 MCAT, 3.4 GPA (36 consistent credit hours per year), Hispanic URM/1st gen, 120 hours shadowing, 300 research, 200 volunteering (150 clinical). I am a CNA, plan on becoming a medical scribe this summer, president of a disc golf club, and lead trombone in my universities jazz band. However, I mostly spend my time working as a barber. I also have a disadvantaged story due to the nature of my relationship with my mother, as she was never a huge part of my life. When I was younger, I recall many unsettling memories that I won’t get too deep in, but it consisted of things like drugs, gangs, and violence. The main issue I am having is I received an academic dishonesty in my junior year of college (first semester). My friend and I turned in a very similar 1-page paper that was worth <2% of our grade (still obtained an A in the course). It was a mistake that should have never happened, and ever since that incident happened, I have been very reluctant to share my work. Even now my friends call me a tweak for not wanting to share my work. I understand why I received the penalty, but I don’t want that to be the fundamental factor for my lack of entrance. I am even considering doing a master’s degree to better my GPA, but I am not sure what the best approach is considering the academic dishonesty.

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[Mr.Smile12]

I am having trouble deciphering the quality of my application, can anyone offer some constructive help? I am a senior in college pondering to take two gap years. 510 MCAT, 3.4 GPA (36 consistent credit hours per year), Hispanic URM/1st gen, 120 hours shadowing, 300 research, 200 volunteering (150 clinical). I am a CNA, plan on becoming a medical scribe this summer, president of a disc golf club, and lead trombone in my universities jazz band. However, I mostly spend my time working as a barber. I also have a disadvantaged story due to the nature of my relationship with my mother, as she was never a huge part of my life. When I was younger, I recall many unsettling memories that I won’t get too deep in, but it consisted of things like drugs, gangs, and violence. The main issue I am having is I received an academic dishonesty in my junior year of college (first semester). My friend and I turned in a very similar 1-page paper that was worth

How were your sanctioned for similar work?

Honestly since this has been recent, it's a little harder for me to let it slide as a screener.

Sent from my SM-N960U using SDN mobile

 

[deleted1044559]

If there is a record you need to report it. It sounds like the university took some sort of action. Due to the recency of the incident I would assume that you would be DOA. As of now your application is not done for, but you need to show significant improvements in your GPA and MCAT. You also should try to become a TA to show leadership and the ability to be trusted.

 

[gonzoball]

How were your sanctioned for similar work?

Honestly since this has been recent, it's a little harder for me to let it slide as a screener.

Sent from my SM-N960U using SDN mobile

It was a three-way road. My work was similar to another students (my friend that I did the assignment with) but not entirely word for word. The issue was that I sent this document to a different friend, who then forgot about the deadline and hesitantly turned it in exactly word for word. And we were a group of 3 for for the entire course (for in class activities and such), so she then cross linked the assignment and gave all three of us this academic dishonesty. And because of the recency of it, I was thinking of taking two gap years and doing a 1-year Masters during that time (in Human Nutrition as I was offered it all paid for). The thing is, I am afraid the admissions committee will see this red flag and assume I cheated my way throughout the entirety of my college career. As a screener, what would you prefer to see in an application with this red flag? I can only explain so much on how I have changed from this incident, but actions speak louder than words. I have no clue on what actions to take and if pursuing the masters is worth it (because they might assume I cheated my way through that too).

 

[MDapplicant578124]

@Goro @gonnif @LizzyM
@Med Ed
@gyngyn

These faculty may be able to help

 

[Goro]

I am having trouble deciphering the quality of my application, can anyone offer some constructive help? I am a senior in college pondering to take two gap years. 510 MCAT, 3.4 GPA (36 consistent credit hours per year), Hispanic URM/1st gen, 120 hours shadowing, 300 research, 200 volunteering (150 clinical). I am a CNA, plan on becoming a medical scribe this summer, president of a disc golf club, and lead trombone in my universities jazz band. However, I mostly spend my time working as a barber. I also have a disadvantaged story due to the nature of my relationship with my mother, as she was never a huge part of my life. When I was younger, I recall many unsettling memories that I won’t get too deep in, but it consisted of things like drugs, gangs, and violence. The main issue I am having is I received an academic dishonesty in my junior year of college (first semester). My friend and I turned in a very similar 1-page paper that was worth <2% of our grade (still obtained an A in the course). It was a mistake that should have never happened, and ever since that incident happened, I have been very reluctant to share my work. Even now my friends call me a tweak for not wanting to share my work. I understand why I received the penalty, but I don’t want that to be the fundamental factor for my lack of entrance. I am even considering doing a master’s degree to better my GPA, but I am not sure what the best approach is considering the academic dishonesty.

Get better friends.

This will hurt you more than if it happened two years ago.

 

[gonzoball]

So you had a formal academic dishonesty, something that went above the professor, to the school's student contact board, dean of students, or other reviewer, got found guilty and they didnt failure you for the course, just the assignment? Are you sure you had an Institutional Action against you as opposed to a warning? And all you learned from this was not to share with colleagues as opposed to sharing professionally, which will be expected as a physician?

Thank you for your reply and sorry for the delayed response. I was found guilty for academic integrity that went through the University, but it did not result in failure of the course. It went above the professor and an Institutional Action was placed on my record. Does this change anything? Either way, an academic integrity despite the outcome is bad, so I am still deciphering my next course of action. I will keep your words in mind, but I am still pondering what next steps to take with this IA.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you for your reply and sorry for the delayed response. I was found guilty for academic integrity that went through the University, but it did not result in failure of the course. It went above the professor and an Institutional Action was placed on my record. Does this change anything? Either way, an academic integrity despite the outcome is bad, so I am still deciphering my next course of action. I will keep your words in mind, but I am still pondering what next steps to take with this IA.

Our advice still stands. Disclose it, get your university conduct officer to verify how it is reported if they are asked to verify, and accept the responsibility of your actions and their consequences.

 

[candbgirl]

And a Masters isn’t going to help your GPA for MD schools.

 

[gonzoball]

Our advice still stands. Disclose it, get your university conduct officer to verify how it is reported if they are asked to verify, and accept the responsibility of your actions and their consequences.

I understand that I have to report and accept the consequences of the IA and learn from this unprofessional action. While being a TA sounds like a good idea, I am more of asking for advice on how to better my application with this IA. Because you mentioned the recency of it (junior year), does this mean I have to take more gap years while working in the medical field to prove myself? Or should I apply as normal with this noted in my application without the additional gap years?

 

[gonzoball]

And a Masters isn’t going to help your GPA for MD schools.

Why wouldn't this help my application? If I have a 3.4 GPA and I finish a Master's with a 4.0 (hypothetically), that won't make any difference in my application to MD schools?

 

[candbgirl]

MD schools don’t combine your uGPA and gGPA for one score. Further it is highly expected that those that have a graduate degree that the GPA be very high. DO schools do combine GPAs . Are you fluent in Spanish? That’s always a positive. Do you have nonclinical volunteering?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I understand that I have to report and accept the consequences of the IA and learn from this unprofessional action. While being a TA sounds like a good idea, I am more of asking for advice on how to better my application with this IA. Because you mentioned the recency of it (junior year), does this mean I have to take more gap years while working in the medical field to prove myself? Or should I apply as normal with this noted in my application without the additional gap years?

You improve your application with an IA by disclosing it and owning the consequences.

As a junior in college, you had two prior years of coursework and general education from your university about academic integrity and have learned how to navigate the system. This means you can't cite immaturity or ignorance. As an upperclassman premed, you do know better and should have acted without putting yourself in this situation (I have stated a ton of times at recruitment events how keeping your nose clean is an absolute must if you're a prehealth applicant). Does this mean you may need to take on more gap years? I would ask a lot of people first, but I have been in on a lot of admissions committee deliberations where I am told this is a screen-out no discussion. Not every school will view it that way, mind you, so it's up to you to roll the dice.

 

[gonzoball]

MD schools don’t combine your uGPA and gGPA for one score. Further it is highly expected that those that have a graduate degree that the GPA be very high. DO schools do combine GPAs . Are you fluent in Spanish? That’s always a positive. Do you have nonclinical volunteering?

I am anticipating a 4.0 GPA in the Human Nutrition masters as I have obtained a 4.0 throughout the minor. I am more interested in DO schools (being that I posted this under the DO school thread) and plan on applying to mostly DO schools. I am eligible to apply to 20 medical schools for free from the fee assistance program through the medical school application system, so I plan on applying to all DO schools with the exception of four Illinois MD schools. I am fluent in Spanish and I am actually (finally) getting pretty fluent in Mandarin. I do have 32 hours of nonclinical volunteering. I am still confused on how this overall makes a difference. As a prospective medical student, I still don't understand why numbers mean everything. Sure, MD schools won't take my gGPA into consideration, but why not the fact that I continued further education to prove myself as a learning-devoted individual? Does a master's degree essentially mean nothing in the eyes of the admissions committee?

 

[gonzoball]

You improve your application with an IA by disclosing it and owning the consequences.

As a junior in college, you had two prior years of coursework and general education from your university about academic integrity and have learned how to navigate the system. This means you can't cite immaturity or ignorance. As an upperclassman premed, you do know better and should have acted without putting yourself in this situation (I have stated a ton of times at recruitment events how keeping your nose clean is an absolute must if you're a prehealth applicant). Does this mean you may need to take on more gap years? I would ask a lot of people first, but I have been in on a lot of admissions committee deliberations where I am told this is a screen-out no discussion. Not every school will view it that way, mind you, so it's up to you to roll the dice.

Your advice seems as if this career that I am very passionate of is a gamble. You are completely correct, as a junior in college with an inherent leadership role, I should have been more aware. But people make mistakes. Are you indirectly stating that this opportunity is ALL in the hands of the admissions committee, as in it depends on who specifically reviews my application? I don't want to make my application a gamble. This is why I am asking for advice on how to better it. Saying that it depends on who reviews it seems unfair and bias. As the great Kenny Rodgers said, "you gotta know when to hold them, and know when to fold them." I am asking in this post for this type of information. Do I just accept the deep hole that I dug myself with this singular IA and fold them, or do I hold them?

 

[Faha]

Ultimately, the only way to find out is to apply to all DO schools and see what happens.

 

[deleted480308]

Your advice seems as if this career that I am very passionate of is a gamble. You are completely correct, as a junior in college with an inherent leadership role, I should have been more aware. But people make mistakes. Are you indirectly stating that this opportunity is ALL in the hands of the admissions committee, as in it depends on who specifically reviews my application? I don't want to make my application a gamble. This is why I am asking for advice on how to better it. Saying that it depends on who reviews it seems unfair and bias. As the great Kenny Rodgers said, "you gotta know when to hold them, and know when to fold them." I am asking in this post for this type of information. Do I just accept the deep hole that I dug myself with this singular IA and fold them, or do I hold them?

It’s always a gamble, and it always depends on who reads the app. You don’t get to change that, you just get to alter the odds a bit and you made them worse by cheating

Also (in case I was reading your application), it sounds like you are annoyed you got caught and not personally ashamed that you were cheating. I don’t know your actual emotions but that is my perception based on how you discuss it. This wasn’t a mistake In the sense that those imply a lack of intention. You cheated, intentionally. I would need to hear why you won’t do that again.

 

[candbgirl]

Your advice seems as if this career that I am very passionate of is a gamble. You are completely correct, as a junior in college with an inherent leadership role, I should have been more aware. But people make mistakes. Are you indirectly stating that this opportunity is ALL in the hands of the admissions committee, as in it depends on who specifically reviews my application? I don't want to make my application a gamble. This is why I am asking for advice on how to better it. Saying that it depends on who reviews it seems unfair and bias. As the great Kenny Rodgers said, "you gotta know when to hold them, and know when to fold them." I am asking in this post for this type of information. Do I just accept the deep hole that I dug myself with this singular IA and fold them, or do I hold them?

Applying to medical school is always some what of a crap shoot. Each year only about 40percent of all applicants are accepted to a school. That means around 60 percent are rejected. That 60 percent includes applicants with stellar applications with no red flags/IAS ETC. So yes you could consider it somewhat of a gamble. But as @Goro frequently says - sometimes you just have to apply with the application you have, warts and all. You don’t seem open to suggestions on how to improve your application to make it better so there isn’t much more people can do to help you out. Apply wisely and Good luck on your cycle.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

The OP has a compelling life journey that has an IA thrown in. I agree with @sb247 that you should make it clear it won't happen again and move forward. Get connected with current students to find people who may share your background in AMSA, SNMA, and LMSA. But I will say the recency will bother some faculty.

 

[Goro]

Your advice seems as if this career that I am very passionate of is a gamble. You are completely correct, as a junior in college with an inherent leadership role, I should have been more aware. But people make mistakes. Are you indirectly stating that this opportunity is ALL in the hands of the admissions committee, as in it depends on who specifically reviews my application? I don't want to make my application a gamble. This is why I am asking for advice on how to better it. Saying that it depends on who reviews it seems unfair and bias. As the great Kenny Rodgers said, "you gotta know when to hold them, and know when to fold them." I am asking in this post for this type of information. Do I just accept the deep hole that I dug myself with this singular IA and fold them, or do I hold them?

Yes, that's exactly the case. We Adcoms take our jobs very seriously. We don't do this because it's a power trip (it's not). It's that we're the last thing between you and patients. We look at people who might be future colleagues (and those who might lay hands on our parents and kids) VERY seriously.

So you are faced with two separate mindsets:
A) Is this the sort of person we want in our Class?
B) With all the candidates we have who didn't cheat (especially as juniors, when they should have known better), why take a risk with this kid?

Fold or hold? The only way you'll know is to submit your apps and find out.

Do NOT make the mistake that DO schools will be more lenient towards this because we're more easy on the stats...my clinical colleagues especially take professionalism VERY seriously. We know from data that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students.

 

[deleted1044559]

The great Wille Nelson once said "a man had to answer for the wicked that he done". You will have answer for your past and its gonna be up to the judge (adcoms) to decide your fate.

Good Luck!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Maybe we need country & western song: "ballad of the premed"

One would have thought to have written some already. Though I admit I don't recall too many country songs/ballad spoofs at Med School Talent/Variety fundraiser shows I've attended...

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

I am having trouble deciphering the quality of my application, can anyone offer some constructive help? I am a senior in college pondering to take two gap years. 510 MCAT, 3.4 GPA (36 consistent credit hours per year), Hispanic URM/1st gen, 120 hours shadowing, 300 research, 200 volunteering (150 clinical). I am a CNA, plan on becoming a medical scribe this summer, president of a disc golf club, and lead trombone in my universities jazz band. However, I mostly spend my time working as a barber. I also have a disadvantaged story due to the nature of my relationship with my mother, as she was never a huge part of my life. When I was younger, I recall many unsettling memories that I won’t get too deep in, but it consisted of things like drugs, gangs, and violence. The main issue I am having is I received an academic dishonesty in my junior year of college (first semester). My friend and I turned in a very similar 1-page paper that was worth <2% of our grade (still obtained an A in the course). It was a mistake that should have never happened, and ever since that incident happened, I have been very reluctant to share my work. Even now my friends call me a tweak for not wanting to share my work. I understand why I received the penalty, but I don’t want that to be the fundamental factor for my lack of entrance. I am even considering doing a master’s degree to better my GPA, but I am not sure what the best approach is considering the academic dishonesty.

They are not your friends.