What are requirements for Swedish MD working as MD in Australia?

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LeoMartinipo

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I will get MD in my home country in Sweden on June 2018. My university is accepted/authorised in Australia. I am little confused about the requirements. My primary thought

  1. I have IB A2 Engilsh SL (equivalent now A1) with grade 7 (> 4) so English requirement done
  2. Use standard pathway (?) because international MD graduate soon.
  3. Get EPIC number.
  4. Create ACM portfolio.
  5. Do ACM MCQ. I think after getting MD in my home country. Is this after right? - - Not sure yet if I need to travel to Australia to do it.
  6. Some one year internship under supervision as MD in New Zealand/... before getting authorisation in Australia. Can you do this 1-year internship also in Norway? Which countries can you choose? How the superivision must be organised?

Now, my friend says that you need to do 1 year internship working as a doctor under supervision in New Zealand (easiest here, he says) before getting the MD authorisation in Australia. I am confused what is this internship about.

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Lol this thread is so similar to other threads about Western MDs that are non-Australian looking to work in Australia.

what is internship:
- in a nutshell, it's mandatory sets of rotations you work in as an intern or resident: 8 weeks emergency medicine, 10 weeks internal medicine, 10 weeks general surgery. then the rest of the year is filled with 'electives' that a particular hospital could offer, or 10 more weeks of surgery or medicine etc.
- for IMGs to get 'provisional registration" and be an intern, you have to do the AMC exam. and it's not an easy exam, western background grads have failed it.
- supervision is arranged by a particular hospital that hires you. in Australia, hospitals are charged with hiring and training interns and residents
- contact the hospitals is where I'd suggest you start
- some hospitals offer "limited" registration, where you may not have to do the AMC, but you may not get paid for your rotations. or the rotations are based on availability and it could take you two years to get all your core rotations out of the way.

Generally it's hard work to move to any Western country as a "Foreign" doctor (unless you're willing to work as rural GP or area of shortage). If you're dreaming of working in Sydney or Melbourne...good luck with that. even locally trained Australian grads can have a hard time getting jobs in the big cities. Unless you're from the UK, where there's some kind of reciprocal agreement.

Finally..
Read through the 'mother' thread for this -
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/us-doctor-moving-to-australia.810914/.
OP is a US MD who moved to Australia.
essentially the answers to all or most of your questions can be found there.
you can try asking him the same questions you've just posed.

He's covered:
- the multiple different pathways to either residency in Australia or positions as fully qualified doctors.
- the exams you have to take, aka the AMC - written & OSCE style exams
- chances of getting a job as a resident v.s. after residency

The other official site to visit would be AHPRA.
http://www.medicalboard.gov.au/Registration/International-Medical-Graduates.aspx
Which I think you've already visited if you're asking about standard pathway etc.

Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with applying as a non-Australian grad, by the way.
Anything I know about that is based on working with small pockets of IMGs
 
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Read through the 'mother' thread for this -
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/us-doctor-moving-to-australia.810914/.
OP is a US MD who moved to Australia.

The 5-10 year moratorium is a big downside for IMG junior doctors in Australia. I am interested in radiology, GP and psychiatry. C.P's recommendation is not to come as trainee/resident. I can easily get secured specialisation places in my home countries. I will have soon also PhD (Tech.) in medical imaging, which may help me come there earlier. I will also have PhD Med before coming to Australia. I can also get earlier to Australia but working in medical imaging there. I however really want to get MD qualifications there too.

How can IMG MD/PhD(Tech.) and/or PhD(Med.) be protected from Australian moratorium policies in Australia?

I do not like at all the moratorium downsides of IMG junior doctor specialisation in Australia, but I am flexible about areas, ...
I am suspicious about how 1 year work as GP intern in New Zealand can help me. So my friend's recommendation may be valid, but there seems be no concensus by the government. I see that I can get to the levels 6-7 only after 2 years: IMG done AMC, permanent resident overseas, but I think doing specialisation in my home country is good.

How can you describe moratorium policies for IMG specialised doctors (radiology) in Australia?
 
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I can't.
again, no experience as an IMG to Australia.
So, the questions you have, unfortunately, are far too specific for me to answer.
I can tell you were to look based on what's been asked before.
I can answer questions about internship, but that's about it.

CP discusses the moratorium in his thread. It may be worth asking in his thread, as he is a specialist that came after getting his qualifications.

It's also been extensively discussed here: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...-ten-year-moratorium-in-simple-terms.1221208/

and here (more relevant to what you're asking): https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/facts-about-the-10-year-moratorium.615186/.

You can work as a radiologist in a rural hospital.
(just don't want to? Why do you think those qualifications should be 'protected'? How does that make anyone more entitled to anything? I don't know, you tell me ~ radiology is highly competitive and prized in Australia, most trainees have to have had publications or research degrees themselves to even get on the program. Looks even better if they had previously worked as radiographers before med. it's not really exceptional anymore, it's becoming more and more expected that you have extensive research and experience before even getting trained)

Also, why Australia by the way if you know how much harder it will be? (Compared to staying in Sweden) There are ways of getting around it if you go over the threads above. or just work 5 years then you can apply to any city you want to.

the legislations are there because there's a maldistribution of doctors in Australia, there's severe shortages in some rural and remote areas. but there's an oversupply in the cities, the locals have trouble finding jobs even as specialists, (both during and after training). most IMGs under the moratorium, the minute they fulfill it in their rural community, they flock to the cities after. so in the news, the government's kinda touched on what they may change about it later. Whether that will happen i have no idea.

Not discouraging you, just saying, it kinda sucks for all of us in general. If you have very compelling reasons to come, i get it. A few of the registrars i've worked with were formerly refugees with families. But it's just not a very great environment right for finding work in the cities particularly in the hospital based specialties. there's no great demand for metropolitan based doctors. you're facing an uphill battle.

Start with just making contact with a hospital. if they're interested in having you, their clinical director in charge of recruitment will be a practicing consultant or clinician at that particular site and they can try to guide you along the process.

another alternative is that you do a fellowship and get to know the hospitals and create networks. they're 1-2 years long.
 
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You can work as a radiologist in a rural hospital.
(just don't want to? Why do you think those qualifications should be 'protected'? How does that make anyone more entitled to anything? I don't know, you tell me ~ radiology is highly competitive and prized in Australia, most trainees have to have had publications or research degrees themselves to even get on the program. it's not really exceptional anymore, it's becoming more and more expected)

I think the moratorium system is fine. It is not so bad after all.

Now, I have to think if I can get a junior doctor place in specialising in radiology in Australia. - - Yes, I have done research already in radiology. Can you get a specialization place in Radiology in Australia if you can work in rural areas? - - I just want to have good mentors. How is that organised in rural areas? - - I really want to be somewhere where colleagues are doing research in the radiology field. It sounds very promising and motivating to have such competitive colleagues in radiology in Australia.

Another option is then specialise in GP in Australia if I do not get a place in radiology right away. Doing GP work there is also fine for me for some time.
 
lol
Again, it goes beyond what I'm capable of answering.

Best place to look into radiology would be the college website:
http://www.ranzcr.edu.au/img-a-aon/overview
(that's the webpage they have for IMGs). And they have a faq:
http://www.ranzcr.edu.au/img-a-aon/resources/frequently-asked-questions

(take the following with a grain of salt - i've only rotated through rural hospitals, but never worked in a radiology department. My interaction with radio is from department meetings and making referrals)

Generally - rural hospitals vary greatly. It does depend on who the consultant (or attending) running the departments are. They are the ones that develop those departments, whether or not research is done is up to them. some do, some don't. some have radiology registrars, some don't. I don't know which are particularly research friendly, if they have research, it will be rural focussed.

The regional or larger rural hospitals are more likely to have what you're after. however, the larger the rural or regional area, the less years it takes off for you in the moratorium.

Any tertiary site will have research, that's almost definite. That's how they obtain their positions in tertiary sites, where those positions are especially competitive to have. It also gives them the ability to recruit more patients to studies, so they have the capacity to run major clinical trials. Occasionally a regional town, like Townsville in QLD has an actual tertiary hospital. even though Townsville is not considered a city like Cairns or Brisbane in that state.
(*bonus to QLD rural hospitals, if you pick the right one, you get to live on a tropical beach)

if you have the opportunity to attend conferences (international ones) find out who the Australian radiologists are and make connections there. another alternative is to find out if any radiologist in Sweden has Australian connections - i.e. they did some fellowships in Australia before or are collaborating on research.

Maybe easier if you were to target your area of interest.
If it's interventional radiology you're interested in, Monash in Melbourne does a lot of that, like clot retrieval in stroke patients.

It's possible to do dual training - however, I rarely hear of GP and radiology combos, I'm not actually sure it exists but it something to ask the colleges if you decide on doing GP trainee. (usually it's rural GP-emergency, GP obstetrics or GP anaesthetics)

Rural GP, even registrar (trainee) ones, can be really easy to find depending on the rural area. There's a lot of GP run mini hospitals. Rural gp is..not like city GP. It's more flexible in terms of what you can do. For e.g. if you have Emergency medicine experience, you could be running a small rural hospital's emergency department part time. most rural and remote areas are still in desperate for doctors, so sometimes the practices or rural hospitals will go out of their way to get you there.

while this remains the easiest way into the country, whether this will help you on your path to radiology, I don't really know. it's much less direct. there's not a whole lot of research that rural GPs do and you've even less opportunities to make connections to radiologists.

Purely speculating here, but it's maybe easier to start over as an intern or resident in a hospital where you can do research in radiology on the side with the radiologist based in the hospital. Or just finishing your training at home and doing either a fellowship or specialist img pathway. As GP, you're still at least based in the community half the time in the clinics.

College of general practice:
http://www.racgp.org.au/home

College of rural medicine:
http://www.acrrm.org.au/home

Just realized I forgot to directly address this:
Can you get a specialization place in Radiology in Australia if you can work in rural areas? - - I just want to have good mentors.

goes back to what i was saying before. you can, but it's hard, in so many ways.

Even some of the locally trained Aussie MDs have trouble with this. Radiology is so competitive nowadays. there's a glut of junior doctors and med students, many of them wanting the exact same things as you do.

As an IMG..your easiest way is rural if you want training let's say, and you end up spending years trying to work your way up in rotations with no relation to radiology. that's what some of the IMGs i've known have done. They may spend years working as a psychiatry resident in hospital, establishing themselves, making themselves known, before they can become a surgical resident for another few years, then apply for surgical training. How it works in Australia is that you work as a resident in various rotations before you can even apply for vocational training. Everyone is expected to do that.

why it's harder to go to tertiary hospital in a city - depending on the state, they use priority groups to select residents. It's based on citizenship and whether you have an IMG degree or not. IMGs end up being the last on the list of consideration. some hospitals may not even look at IMG applicants because they already have too many domestic graduates to choose from. to the point where grads with Australian degrees must go rural too. some aren't able to return to cities they want to go to for years, ending up in rural for a while or having to move to a different state.

most hospitals in Australia, are loyal to their own residents and like to rehire them (they like to the pick the ones that have been shown to be reliable and an asset to the hospital they don't want to lose. it's easier to hire who you know, than someone neither you nor any of your staff can vouch for. there's variability in residents too, with respect to their own individual work ethics).

it can also hard for Aussie residents to move between states, depending on the state. Tasmania and North Territories are going to be less popular than new south wales or victoria.

There's just a massive effect in general on workforce because there's too many junior doctors right now. I can't even pretend like there isn't, because everyone feels the effect of this. In like multiple 'dimensions'
 
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There's just a massive effect in general on workforce because there's too many junior doctors right now. I can't even pretend like there isn't, because everyone feels the effect of this. In like multiple 'dimensions'

I can be very flexible in the location and actually even in the specialisation field.

I like the program, AGPT. I will register there soon as final year student, eventually IMG. I am really open to specialise first in GP.

It will be fine for me if I can get some conference possibilities there while doing the specialisation in GP.

Another field where I am interested in is Clinical Physiology where I have already some experience because of my MSc (Tech.) in Physics. I think much less places there but still one more possibility which I can do too.
 
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