What are the benefits of doing FM over IM?

[ConfusedAboutEverything]

I keep hearing that FM is getting gradually phased out of emergency rooms and hospitalist positions. Yet IM is still fine doing either hospitalist or primary care.

Why do FM at all if everyone is phasing them out and IM can do the same job and aren't being phased out of primary care?

Any benefits at all of doing FM over IM?

Conversely, why would someone choose IM over FM if they want to be a hospitalist if FM can also be a hospitalist?

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[fldoctorgirl]

FM can see ob and peds, if you're into that. I would also argue that (program dependent, of course), FM-trained docs come out a bit ahead in the outpatient department, while IM-trained docs come out a bit ahead in inpatient. So, if you know you 100% want to work outpatient, and don't mind dealing with ob and peds, I'd probably go the FM route. FM docs can work as hospitalists, but this will also depend on the region you want to work in. Many hospitals will prefer IM-trained docs, and if you're trying to work in a popular city (NYC/Miami/LA) you may have a harder time get a hospitalist position as an FM doc.

 

[AMEHigh]

I'm not sure what you mean FM is getting "phased out."
That has not been my experience at all, the jobs are still plentiful for FM.
You can work in SO many environments, not just the ER and in the hospital. I agree that you definitely should not do FM if you want to work in the ER.
Outside of "normal" outpatient primary care you can work in:
Urgent care, school health, college/university health, homeless medicine, prisons, addiction medicine, HIV care, adolescent medicine, prenatal care, reproductive/women's health, sports medicine, palliative care, etc etc. The list goes on.

The benefit to IM would be if you definitely want to be a hospitalist and definitely don't want to learn about peds and obgyn, it's typical to do that route, or if you have an internest in a specific fellowhsip that you can only get thorugh IM.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm not sure what you mean FM is getting "phased out."
That has not been my experience at all, the jobs are still plentiful for FM.
You can work in SO many environments, not just the ER and in the hospital. I agree that you definitely should not do FM if you want to work in the ER.
Outside of "normal" outpatient primary care you can work in:
Urgent care, school health, college/university health, homeless medicine, prisons, addiction medicine, HIV care, adolescent medicine, prenatal care, reproductive/women's health, sports medicine, palliative care, etc etc. The list goes on.

The benefit to IM would be if you definitely want to be a hospitalist and definitely don't want to learn about peds and obgyn, it's typical to do that route, or if you have an internest in a specific fellowhsip that you can only get thorugh IM.

My internist wife chose that because she likes general medicine but hates peds and ob/gyn. I chose FM because I like both of those.

FM also has a way better job market for outpatient general practice than IM since most of us still see kids, even if less so than in the past.

 

[deleted87716]

FM isn’t being “phased out.” IDK where you heard that, but I recommend ignoring them going forward.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I keep hearing that FM is getting gradually phased out of emergency rooms and hospitalist positions. Yet IM is still fine doing either hospitalist or primary care.

Why do FM at all if everyone is phasing them out and IM can do the same job and aren't being phased out of primary care?

Any benefits at all of doing FM over IM?

Conversely, why would someone choose IM over FM if they want to be a hospitalist if FM can also be a hospitalist?

FM is not being phased out of hospitalist jobs.
FM is being phased out of the ER though.

 

[ConfusedAboutEverything]

FM isn’t being “phased out.” IDK where you heard that, but I recommend ignoring them going forward.

I've been hearing this almost everywhere!

The primary care component of FM is being increasing done by NP and IMs.
The urgent care and ED component of FM is being increasingly done by EM (and their job market is getting saturated, so FM will be phased out)
The pediatric component of FM is being increasingly done by pediatricians.
The OBGYN component of FM is being increasingly done by OB/GYN specialists.
Everyone is trending towards specialists and FM will no longer have a niche and will gradually be phased out.

Is there anything holy in FM anymore?

Worse, NYU residency replaced their FM residency with IM primary care residency because they "don't believe in family medicine". I've never heard anyone say "I don't believe in __________ specialty"--but for FM, they feel fine to question its legitimacy. Why is it that the most prestigious specialty in other countries (GP) is getting so ****ted on in the US?

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I've been hearing this almost everywhere!

The primary care component of FM is being increasing done by NP and IMs.
The urgent care and ED component of FM is being increasingly done by EM (and their job market is getting saturated, so FM will be phased out)
The pediatric component of FM is being increasingly done by pediatricians.
The OBGYN component of FM is being increasingly done by OB/GYN specialists.
Everyone is trending towards specialists and FM will no longer have a niche and will gradually be phased out.

Is there anything holy in FM anymore?

Worse, NYU residency replaced their FM residency with IM primary care residency because they "don't believe in family medicine". I've never heard anyone say "I don't believe in __________ specialty"--but for FM, they feel fine to question its legitimacy. Why is it that the most prestigious specialty in other countries (GP) is getting so ****ted on in the US?

Well midlevels are in every specialty and nowadays can see the initial first consult. It's not an FM only problem. There are neurosurgery PAs, ortho PAs, EP NPs, EM midlevels, we have midlevels doing solo work in ICUs.

EM residency trained docs have increased so that's why FM is phased out of EDs. They even have a tough time finding a job in many places as an ABEM.

FM is also the most versatile specialty... and what you do is sort of up to you. IM isn't well trained in outpatient procedures (usually none). You also can choose to see kids if you wish.
Places like NYC or LA are hyperspecialized due to the patient population and specialist saturation.

In the end, FM has the best overall job market.

 

[InternistDO]

I've been hearing this almost everywhere!

The primary care component of FM is being increasing done by NP and IMs.
The urgent care and ED component of FM is being increasingly done by EM (and their job market is getting saturated, so FM will be phased out)
The pediatric component of FM is being increasingly done by pediatricians.
The OBGYN component of FM is being increasingly done by OB/GYN specialists.
Everyone is trending towards specialists and FM will no longer have a niche and will gradually be phased out.

Is there anything holy in FM anymore?

Worse, NYU residency replaced their FM residency with IM primary care residency because they "don't believe in family medicine". I've never heard anyone say "I don't believe in __________ specialty"--but for FM, they feel fine to question its legitimacy. Why is it that the most prestigious specialty in other countries (GP) is getting so ****ted on in the US?

Less and less internists are doing primary care every year. I love New York, but it is not a city with a strong handle on the best way to deliver primary care, and the Northeast is fairly unique in training zillions of internists to be PCPs. There are cardiologists there who do part time cards/part time primary care (the results are not always spectacular). I've had patients in NYC with ridiculous situations like having 3 different specialists and no PCP. There is a super high demand for adult primary care everywhere in the country, even with NPs, PAs, IM, FM, and whoever else all in the market.

If anything, I think healthcare systems are becoming more receptive to primary care (apparently super expensive subspecialty services are not the most efficient way to make a society healthy for cheap, who knew), and this is going to make FM increasingly attractive, especially as IM continues to drift towards being a path to specialization and inpatient medicine.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Less and less internists are doing primary care every year. I love New York, but it is not a city with a strong handle on the best way to deliver primary care, and the Northeast is fairly unique in training zillions of internists to be PCPs. There are cardiologists there who do part time cards/part time primary care (the results are not always spectacular). I've had patients in NYC with ridiculous situations like having 3 different specialists and no PCP. There is a super high demand for adult primary care everywhere in the country, even with NPs, PAs, IM, FM, and whoever else all in the market.

If anything, I think healthcare systems are becoming more receptive to primary care (apparently super expensive subspecialty services are not the most efficient way to make a society healthy for cheap, who knew), and this is going to make FM increasingly attractive, especially as IM continues to drift towards being a path to specialization and inpatient medicine.

Yeah there will be a decline in reimbursements to specialists with an increase to FM.

 

[NITRAS]

I keep hearing that FM is getting gradually phased out of emergency rooms and hospitalist positions. Yet IM is still fine doing either hospitalist or primary care.

Why do FM at all if everyone is phasing them out and IM can do the same job and aren't being phased out of primary care?

Any benefits at all of doing FM over IM?

Conversely, why would someone choose IM over FM if they want to be a hospitalist if FM can also be a hospitalist?

Both IM and FM are 3 years long. They are the two biggest residencies (in terms of number of positions available.)

IM gives you a chance to go into the IM specialties that are board certified. There is a minimal OB exposure and essentially I no kids outside of IM sub specialists.

FM has required elements of OB, GYN, Inpatient, outpatient, pediatrics, EM, and surgery. There is a big variety in the amount of inpatient rotations based on where you did training. The FM folks at my residency place did plenty of inpatient medicine and decent smattering of critical care. The FM folks at my current place of employment have minimal inpatient experience. I expect the OB, EM, and surgical exposure can vary quite a bit but I’m not the person to ask.

Both IM and FM practice general medicine. Lots of overlap. Lots of turf battles.

We, in the US practice specialist medicine. We have specialist in EM, OB, GYN, critical care, pediatrics, and surgery That all spend years just in their respective area of expertise. More than you will get in training in IM or FM.

Hate kids and outpatient, want a chance at subspecialty medicine? go IM. Want to see it all, go FM.

 

[Sardonix]

I've been hearing this almost everywhere!

The primary care component of FM is being increasing done by NP and IMs.
The urgent care and ED component of FM is being increasingly done by EM (and their job market is getting saturated, so FM will be phased out)
The pediatric component of FM is being increasingly done by pediatricians.
The OBGYN component of FM is being increasingly done by OB/GYN specialists.
Everyone is trending towards specialists and FM will no longer have a niche and will gradually be phased out.

Is there anything holy in FM anymore?

Worse, NYU residency replaced their FM residency with IM primary care residency because they "don't believe in family medicine". I've never heard anyone say "I don't believe in __________ specialty"--but for FM, they feel fine to question its legitimacy. Why is it that the most prestigious specialty in other countries (GP) is getting so ****ted on in the US?

1. FM is not being fazed out of primary care by midlevels, let alone IM. What are you smoking?
2. EM docs are indeed consolidating their grip on the ED, as they understandably would as that is literally their specialty. However, there is no war over urgent care between FM and EM. EM docs that I talk to HATE urgent care because it's simplistic and low stakes compared to their training and daily responsibilities. Ironically, if you had mentioned midlevels are taking over UC I would still disagree with the claim, but at least understand where it came from
3. No, again I have no idea who or what told you this. FM sees peds all the freaking time.
4. Yes, OB is increasingly being done by only OBGYNs. Most FM docs I see are okay with this. The ones that love OB either still do care up to X weeks or they work in a place that still has FM docs doing OB because, gasp, OB docs are not everywhere all the time.
5. Again, no, not everywhere is trending toward specialists. Again, what are you smoking.

I really don't know what your frame of reference is, but if you are just an M1/M2 you have a lot of research to do. If you are an M3 or above and you have this kind of superficial, panicky mindset I can only assume your experience is in a major academic center in a huge city where FM must not be respected. But even in huge cities with major university medical centers and millions of people, FM is doing just fine.

I'm sorry if my reaction seems harsh it's just... you posted as if everyone understands your concerns when really I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

[Splenda88]

Why would anyone do FM? FM docs ONLY make 250k/yr working 8am to 5pm Monday thru Thursday...

 

[Damson]

My internist wife chose that because she likes general medicine but hates peds and ob/gyn. I chose FM because I like both of those.

FM also has a way better job market for outpatient general practice than IM since most of us still see kids, even if less so than in the past.

Doc, can you elaborate on why she hated peds and ob/gyn?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Doc, can you elaborate on why she hated peds and ob/gyn?

Because she doesn't like treating children or gynecologic problems?

 

[deleted87716]

The job market issue is real. For example, I would never hire an internist in my practice because they would be unable to provide cross-coverage for gyn and peds patients, both in the office and when on call. There are also no internists in my call group, for the same reason.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The job market issue is real. For example, I would never hire an internist in my practice because they would be unable to provide cross-coverage for gyn and peds patients, both in the office and when on call. There are also no internists in my call group, for the same reason.

Same. We have 3 internist practices and like 15 FM practices in our system.

 

[simpler2]

I'm sure the OPs concerns ring true for certain parts of the country (large cities/metroplexes). The US is a very large country. For those of us that live/practice in the other 90% of it, assertions that FM is being "phased out" simply seem strange/ignorant. The future of our healthcare system is uncertain in many ways but I would bank more on the overabundance of specialists and sub-specialists being phased out long before this presents as an issue for FM/primary care.

 

[NITRAS]

You can do Pain Medicine through FM now but not IM.
Just a random + for FM if you’re interested in Pain but don’t like in Anesthesia/PMR. Also FM is a better route for sports medicine.

I wouldn’t go to FM to go to pain. Most likely you won’t be able to match a fellowship position.

 

[AMEHigh]

I'm sure the OPs concerns ring true for certain parts of the country (large cities/metroplexes). The US is a very large country. For those of us that live/practice in the other 90% of it, assertions that FM is being "phased out" simply seem strange/ignorant. The future of our healthcare system is uncertain in many ways but I would bank more on the overabundance of specialists and sub-specialists being phased out long before this presents as an issue for FM/primary care.

In what large cities is FM being phased out as a specialty? Doesn’t seem to be the case in my large city.

 

[deleted87716]

In what large cities is FM being phased out as a specialty? Doesn’t seem to be the case in my large city.

Spoiler

It isn't.

 

[genessis42]

I’m still a student , but I always wondered how different inpatient medicine is for FM vs the IM folks. Do hospitalist positions hire family docs a lot or do they prefer IM?

I actually haven’t really noticed turf battles b/w IM and FM docs, but I have seen that they both dislike NP/PA’s getting more autonomy.

 

[Splenda88]

I’m still a student , but I always wondered how different inpatient medicine is for FM vs the IM folks. Do hospitalist positions hire family docs a lot or do they prefer IM?

I actually haven’t really noticed turf battles b/w IM and FM docs, but I have seen that they both dislike NP/PA’s getting more autonomy.

I believe most place would prefer IM or FM... I did a month inpatient at a community hospital that has both, but the vast majority were IM docs.

I wonder if places with open ICU are open to hire FM... For instance, residents in the FM program at my institution spend only 1 month in the ICU while IM do 6 months.

 

[genessis42]

I believe most place would prefer IM or FM... I did a month inpatient at a community hospital that has both, but the vast majority were IM docs.

I wonder if places with open ICU are open to hire FM... For instance, residents in the FM program at my institution spend only 1 month in the ICU while IM do 6 months.

That's what I've heard too. IM has more ICU stuff.

But can't an FM also do a 1 year hospitalist fellowship? Or just choose a program with more inpatient rotations?

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I’m still a student , but I always wondered how different inpatient medicine is for FM vs the IM folks. Do hospitalist positions hire family docs a lot or do they prefer IM?

I actually haven’t really noticed turf battles b/w IM and FM docs, but I have seen that they both dislike NP/PA’s getting more autonomy.

Academic center internal med department - IM only

Anywhere else - usually fine with FM. A minority of jobs advertise as IM only, but again... good majority are okay with FM. This is consistent even in heavily competitive areas on east/west coast and the midwest/south etc.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I believe most place would prefer IM or FM... I did a month inpatient at a community hospital that has both, but the vast majority were IM docs.

I wonder if places with open ICU are open to hire FM... For instance, residents in the FM program at my institution spend only 1 month in the ICU while IM do 6 months.

Places with open-ICU are the most likely to hire FM. They tend to be community hospitals always and if you look at their job ads, nearly all of them advertise as being open to FM. As you get into jobs that are open ICU with full procedures, I've noticed it's almost 100% that take FM (and these are not small tiny hospitals)

Largely this is due to the fact that there are probably fewer intensivists in the area hence they want someone who can essentially do everything - and such settings are universally very FM friendly.

I don't think residency requirements matter as much as the fact that you're a board certified physician who is comfortable doing xyz.

 

[AMEHigh]

I believe most place would prefer IM or FM... I did a month inpatient at a community hospital that has both, but the vast majority were IM docs.

I wonder if places with open ICU are open to hire FM... For instance, residents in the FM program at my institution spend only 1 month in the ICU while IM do 6 months.

I think there’s also a lot self-selection bias. Most people who do FM, especially outside of the Midwest/rural areas don’t want to be hospitalists. So of course you’re going to see more IM trained people working in hospitals. Out of the people I graduated with (residency in a large NE city) one wanted to be a hospitalist and he got a job at one of the top academic hospitals in the city. I suspect they don’t have a lot of FM there because again self-selection bias, but it is possible to get such a job if that’s what you want to do and you put the effort in to your training.

And yes FM docs get hired to work in open ICU hospitals.

I’m involved in several FM groups with doctors from around the country and a lot of them do inpatient and OB work.

 

[CCM-MD]

I personally have not worked at a hospital with FM hospitalists. Though I have only worked at hospitals with more than >400 beds, and all have been referral centers. Below is some actual data from the MGMA, almost 5000 IM vs 359 FM. Probably the only actual data you're gonna find for this, rest will be anecdotes. I would say IM has an advantage when it comes to becoming a hospitalist. Will be much easier to get a job, especially now that hospitalist work is getting very saturated in many locations. FM has its many advantages like being able to do OB, peds, and overall better trained to do outpatient work right out of residency versus IM has access to better fellowships in my opinion, and definitely a leg up when it comes to being a hospitalist.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

The hospital where I'm at for residency has an open ICU and hires a large number of FM docs as hospitalists.

It's all personal comfort. Some have the training and personal interest to work in such settings and others (who may have trained at the same place) don't. Same goes for IM grads.

I personally have not worked at a hospital with FM hospitalists. Though I have only worked at hospitals with more than >400 beds, and all have been referral centers. Below is some actual data from the MGMA, almost 5000 IM vs 359 FM. Probably the only actual data you're gonna find for this, rest will be anecdotes. I would say IM has an advantage when it comes to becoming a hospitalist. Will be much easier to get a job, especially now that hospitalist work is getting very saturated in many locations. FM has its many advantages like being able to do OB, peds, and overall better trained to do outpatient work right out of residency versus IM has access to better fellowships in my opinion, and definitely a leg up when it comes to being a hospitalist.

By far the biggest factor is self selection, even most recruiters confirm this.
A majority of FM grads want to do outpatient only for lifestyle reasons. We do have grads every year become hospitalists and they have 0 issues finding great offers everywhere. The only places that don't hire FM are places that are ironically hyperspecialized with every bit of back up.

 

[CCM-MD]

It's all personal comfort. Some have the training and personal interest to work in such settings and others (who may have trained at the same place) don't. Same goes for IM grads.

By far the biggest factor is self selection, even most recruiters confirm this.
A majority of FM grads want to do outpatient only for lifestyle reasons. We do have grads every year become hospitalists and they have 0 issues finding great offers everywhere. The only places that don't hire FM are places that are ironically hyperspecialized with every bit of back up.

I'm not saying you can't find a hospitalist job as FM, you obviously can. But keep in mind there are locations that are getting quite saturated where IM will have an easier time getting a job. This is not a dig at FM, which has its many advantages over IM - ability to do peds, OB, ER work. But when it comes to hospitalist I think IM will give one the most opportunities, especially in competitive locations.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I'm not saying you can't find a hospitalist job as FM, you obviously can. But keep in mind there are locations that are getting quite saturated where IM will have an easier time getting a job. This is not a dig at FM, which has its many advantages over IM - ability to do peds, OB, ER work. But when it comes to hospitalist I think IM will give one the most opportunities, especially in competitive locations.

I definitely agree in theory (all else equal, IM wins). Though I meant our alumni have gotten jobs in those competitive saturated places the past 2 years without any issues.

 

[tealeafexplorer]

So to recap, if you know you want broad spectrum outpatient 8-5 Monday through Friday, FM is the way to go.

IM has subspecialties and better job market for hospitalists and inpatient work.

FM has a better job market than IM for outpatient.

Am I missing anything?

 

[Sardonix]

So to recap, if you know you want broad spectrum outpatient 8-5 Monday through Friday, FM is the way to go.

IM has subspecialties and better job market for hospitalists and inpatient work.

FM has a better job market than IM for outpatient.

Am I missing anything?

Yeah you forgot to crap on one of the two fields based on which you didn't commit to. This is SDN. It's obligatory.

 

[sunshinefl]

Yeah you forgot to crap on one of the two fields based on which you didn't commit to. This is SDN. It's obligatory.

I get crapped on by IM hospitalists for wanting to do IM primary care. They always tell me “just do FM then.”

 

[CCM-MD]

I get crapped on by IM hospitalists for wanting to do IM primary care. They always tell me “just do FM then.”

Don't let it get to you. Monday to Thursday 8-5pm with all weekends and holidays off PLUS vacation time, for 250-300k+? Outpatient IM/FM is a sweet ass deal and I wish I liked it enough to do it myself. Its ok though, we all gotta like different things for the world to work.

 

[tealeafexplorer]

Don't let it get to you. Monday to Thursday 8-5pm with all weekends and holidays off PLUS vacation time, for 250-300k+? Outpatient IM/FM is a sweet ass deal and I wish I liked it enough to do it myself. Its ok though, we all gotta like different things for the world to work.

what did you end up choosing to do?

 

[galactus]

So to recap, if you know you want broad spectrum outpatient 8-5 Monday through Friday, FM is the way to go.

IM has subspecialties and better job market for hospitalists and inpatient work.

FM has a better job market than IM for outpatient.

Am I missing anything?

Yes. FM can do subspecialties too lol. I'm FM/ sports medicine.

 

[MedicineMan99]

Simply put, you have a lot more clinical and non-clinical opportunities as a Family Physician than as an Internist.

 

[YeOleBoneWiz]

If you want to see kids and OB plus adults do FM
if you want to see adults outpatient either is good
if you want to do hospitalist IM
if you might want to specialize IM

Job market great for either. there are no hungry internests

 

[manateeMD]

Bumping this thread because I am currently trying to decide FM vs IM. Loved my FM rotation and want to do primary care. Didn't love OB and could take or leave kids, mainly interested in adult care.

I am mostly curious about the difference in what you see in IM primary care vs FM primary care (not counting OB and kids). I have been told that IM primary care is mostly elderly patients who are following up on chronic medical conditions. I saw a lot of this in FM, but I also saw a lot of acute visits and younger patients (20s-50s) who were there for general wellness checks or follow-up for mental health. Is this something that you also see in IM primary care, or is it truly mostly elderly patients?

 

[door_to_balloon_knot]

Bumping this thread because I am currently trying to decide FM vs IM. Loved my FM rotation and want to do primary care. Didn't love OB and could take or leave kids, mainly interested in adult care.

I am mostly curious about the difference in what you see in IM primary care vs FM primary care (not counting OB and kids). I have been told that IM primary care is mostly elderly patients who are following up on chronic medical conditions. I saw a lot of this in FM, but I also saw a lot of acute visits and younger patients (20s-50s) who were there for general wellness checks or follow-up for mental health. Is this something that you also see in IM primary care, or is it truly mostly elderly patients?

What you are told about IM is essentially the same as FM. For whatever it’s worth I think IM is reimbursed at a higher rate of $/RVU but don’t quote me on that.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

What you are told about IM is essentially the same as FM. For whatever it’s worth I think IM is reimbursed at a higher rate of $/RVU but don’t quote me on that.

Pretty sure that's a myth lol.

 

[door_to_balloon_knot]

Pretty sure that's a myth lol.

Older source but I’m fairly certain it’s not

U.S. physicians - compensation per work RVU by specialty 2013 | Statista

This statistic shows the results of a survey regarding U.S.

www.statista.com

 

[deleted87716]

If there is any difference in reimbursement, it’s individual, and solely has to do with coding. There is nothing about IM vs. FM that confers higher reimbursement.

 

[spacegun]

If there is any difference in reimbursement, it’s individual, and solely has to do with coding. There is nothing about IM vs. FM that confers higher reimbursement.

Sincere question: If it's solely about coding, does that mean FM is somehow "under" coding and/or is IM somehow "over" coding? I'm wondering because FM as a whole does seem to get less than IM as a whole, at least based on the source that @door_to_balloon_knot just cited?

 

[deleted87716]

Sincere question: If it's solely about coding, does that mean FM is somehow "under" coding and/or is IM somehow "over" coding? I'm wondering because FM as a whole does seem to get less than IM as a whole, at least based on the source that @door_to_balloon_knot just cited?

As a specialty? Not likely.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Older source but I’m fairly certain it’s not

U.S. physicians - compensation per work RVU by specialty 2013 | Statista

This statistic shows the results of a survey regarding U.S.

www.statista.com

^

 

[spacegun]

As a specialty? Not likely.

Sorry if I'm not clear. I don't mean in terms of total pay. I trust both FM and IM are paid the same for doing the same work etc.

I just mean based on what @door_to_balloon_knot cited - "payment per work RVU" - which does seem to show FM is getting less than IM in general? If it's solely about coding like you said, then I'm wondering if there's something "off" with how FM and/or IM are coding?

But maybe the source cited is flawed - which I can totally accept is true too?

 

[deleted87716]

Sorry if I'm not clear. I don't mean in terms of total pay. I trust both FM and IM are paid the same for doing the same work etc.

I just mean based on what @door_to_balloon_knot cited - "payment per work RVU" - which does seem to show FM is getting less than IM in general? If it's solely about coding like you said, then I'm wondering if there's something "off" with how FM and/or IM are coding?

But maybe the source cited is flawed - which I can totally accept is true too?

RVUs are determined by employers, so anything is possible.

 

[spacegun]

RVUs are determined by employers, so anything is possible.

Thanks @Blue Dog! I don't want to take up too much of your time (which I appreciate), so this is my last question, but does this mean employers are determining FM gets lower RVUs than IM, generally speaking?

(I assume this doesn't apply to PCPs that aren't employed by a hospital or other system. So if it's true employers are giving lower RVUs for FM than IM, then maybe this is a good reason not to be employed, which as far as I know is still very possible in primary care, unlike specialties that are mostly hospital-based like EM, anesthesia, hospitalists, critical care, etc.)