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I mean when you graduate after 4 years
What are the difference between top5 Medical school and some state school(rank 40s)
- Thread starter nananunu
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Hawaiiandoc04
1) better chance of getting your first choice residency program
(ie able to get into competitive specialties, competitive hospitals)
2) Opportunities for academic research are better
(both in terms of doing "cutting edge" research and making a name for yourself, also better chance of being appointed to an academic position (Prof.) at a med school)
These to me are the main advantages of a top five school... If one is interested in primary care or just practicing medicine in a non-competitive field and not interested in the academic stuff, then to me there really is no difference between top 5 and top 50...
(ie able to get into competitive specialties, competitive hospitals)
2) Opportunities for academic research are better
(both in terms of doing "cutting edge" research and making a name for yourself, also better chance of being appointed to an academic position (Prof.) at a med school)
These to me are the main advantages of a top five school... If one is interested in primary care or just practicing medicine in a non-competitive field and not interested in the academic stuff, then to me there really is no difference between top 5 and top 50...
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Research opportunity. The top-5 schools have way more research (both basic and clinical) than schools further down the list. This is important for anyone looking to competitive specialties or academic medicine.
As Hawaiiandoc also said, higher ranked schools may help for those competitive residencies as well. The name factor means something (though, it's debateable how much), as well as the reputation of the faculty you'll work with at the upper-tier medical schools, which helps with those crucial LORs.
Otherwise, if you're looking to do primary care or something else that is not so competitive, there really isn't much difference. Go where it is cheaper or better for you.
As Hawaiiandoc also said, higher ranked schools may help for those competitive residencies as well. The name factor means something (though, it's debateable how much), as well as the reputation of the faculty you'll work with at the upper-tier medical schools, which helps with those crucial LORs.
Otherwise, if you're looking to do primary care or something else that is not so competitive, there really isn't much difference. Go where it is cheaper or better for you.
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I think that the 'going to a top-5 school gets you a better residency' argument gets a little overplayed on SDN. In general, I think that there is *very little* difference in residency matching whether you go to a top-5 school or not. (The obvious exception to this is academic medicine, and most any doctor will tell you that in academic medicine, your resume/pedigree definitely counts.)
Before anyone responds to this post by saying, "Well, secretstang19, I just looked at Yale/Duke/Hopkins' match list, and their students were all going to top-notch residencies, and then I looked at State U's match list, and most of them were no-name hospitals in-state!" let me say this oft-overlooked fact:
RESIDENCY MATCH LISTS ARE MISLEADING
There are plenty of reasons why - I'll just give you two.
1. Self-selection. Think about the kind of med student who goes to a top-5 school vs. the kind of med student who goes to a state school. It is usually the case that state med school students are more interested in primary care, in which case getting a residency at Brigham & Women's hospital is pointless. State schools have match lists with a distinct local flavor to them because lots of their students want to stay in state. Look at a school like MCG. The student body is overwhelmingly composed of people from the state of Georgia - many of them have lived their whole lives in Georgia, they go to medical school in Georgia, and they want to practice in Georgia. So they apply for residencies in... Georgia (or somewhere nearby). When you lookat their match list, you'll see one or two residency matches at Ivy League schools, and the rest will be in Georgia or in the Southeast. That DOES NOT MEAN that the MCG students were incapable of getting matched at Ivy League schools - they mainly just didn't apply.
2. Talent of the student body. The single most important determining factor in residency matching is the applicant's score on the USMLE. Not surprisingly, there is a strong statistical correlation between a person's score on the MCAT and their score on the USMLE (those admissions boards made us take the MCAT for a reason). Top-5 schools have more students who did very well on the MCAT than state schools - their student body is, on the whole, either more intelligent or better at taking standardized tests. Naturally, higher board scores = better residency placement, so the kids from Harvard are getting better residencies than the kids from UMass, but it often has NOTHING to do with where they went to school and everything to do with how the performed on the USMLE. (You could make the argument here - but I won't - that if you want an Ivy League residency that you should go to a state school over an Ivy for med school. After board scores, the next most important selection factors are your clinical evaluations, physician recommendations, and course grades. And if you're an extremely intelligent person, it might well be easier to get outstanding grades and great clinical evaluations at your state school - after all, it's easier to be a big fish in a small pond.)
I will agree that in the hypothetical case where you have two applicants and one residency spot and your two applicants have identical board scores and grades and interviewed equally well, maybe the prestige of the school you attended comes into play. But really, how often does that happen?
I will also say that what I've said applies to people seeking selective residencies (optho, ortho, derm, ENT, etc.). Academic medicine is a different ball game. Pedigree matters. (Of course, the reasons that it matters are similar to the reasons I've just pointed out here: you're much more likely to do cutting-edge research - the kind of research that gets published and lands you a top-notch fellowship - if you go to a top-5 school versus a state school).
Hope this helps...
Before anyone responds to this post by saying, "Well, secretstang19, I just looked at Yale/Duke/Hopkins' match list, and their students were all going to top-notch residencies, and then I looked at State U's match list, and most of them were no-name hospitals in-state!" let me say this oft-overlooked fact:
RESIDENCY MATCH LISTS ARE MISLEADING
There are plenty of reasons why - I'll just give you two.
1. Self-selection. Think about the kind of med student who goes to a top-5 school vs. the kind of med student who goes to a state school. It is usually the case that state med school students are more interested in primary care, in which case getting a residency at Brigham & Women's hospital is pointless. State schools have match lists with a distinct local flavor to them because lots of their students want to stay in state. Look at a school like MCG. The student body is overwhelmingly composed of people from the state of Georgia - many of them have lived their whole lives in Georgia, they go to medical school in Georgia, and they want to practice in Georgia. So they apply for residencies in... Georgia (or somewhere nearby). When you lookat their match list, you'll see one or two residency matches at Ivy League schools, and the rest will be in Georgia or in the Southeast. That DOES NOT MEAN that the MCG students were incapable of getting matched at Ivy League schools - they mainly just didn't apply.
2. Talent of the student body. The single most important determining factor in residency matching is the applicant's score on the USMLE. Not surprisingly, there is a strong statistical correlation between a person's score on the MCAT and their score on the USMLE (those admissions boards made us take the MCAT for a reason). Top-5 schools have more students who did very well on the MCAT than state schools - their student body is, on the whole, either more intelligent or better at taking standardized tests. Naturally, higher board scores = better residency placement, so the kids from Harvard are getting better residencies than the kids from UMass, but it often has NOTHING to do with where they went to school and everything to do with how the performed on the USMLE. (You could make the argument here - but I won't - that if you want an Ivy League residency that you should go to a state school over an Ivy for med school. After board scores, the next most important selection factors are your clinical evaluations, physician recommendations, and course grades. And if you're an extremely intelligent person, it might well be easier to get outstanding grades and great clinical evaluations at your state school - after all, it's easier to be a big fish in a small pond.)
I will agree that in the hypothetical case where you have two applicants and one residency spot and your two applicants have identical board scores and grades and interviewed equally well, maybe the prestige of the school you attended comes into play. But really, how often does that happen?
I will also say that what I've said applies to people seeking selective residencies (optho, ortho, derm, ENT, etc.). Academic medicine is a different ball game. Pedigree matters. (Of course, the reasons that it matters are similar to the reasons I've just pointed out here: you're much more likely to do cutting-edge research - the kind of research that gets published and lands you a top-notch fellowship - if you go to a top-5 school versus a state school).
Hope this helps...
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I somewhat agree with what you have said secretstang. However, instead of looking at the medical school's match lists, I think it is more helpful to look at the students who enter the residencies you want.
I'm looking at certain neurosurgery or academic neurology residencies. When I look at those programs and where their students came from, their students are coming almost exclusively from top-25 medical schools (e.g. the heavy research intstitutions). There are exceptions, but they seem pretty rare. As for why they are coming from those top-ranked medical schools, I'm not sure. Nevertheless, my assumption is that if you want to be in those shoes, you should follow in their footsteps.
I'm looking at certain neurosurgery or academic neurology residencies. When I look at those programs and where their students came from, their students are coming almost exclusively from top-25 medical schools (e.g. the heavy research intstitutions). There are exceptions, but they seem pretty rare. As for why they are coming from those top-ranked medical schools, I'm not sure. Nevertheless, my assumption is that if you want to be in those shoes, you should follow in their footsteps.
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