Quantcast

What are the highest paid medical/dental specialties PER HOUR?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

makohunter18

New Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
9
Reaction score
2

Members don't see this ad.
Not considering yearly salary, what are the highest paid hourly med/dent specialties? I’ve heard orthopedics, plastics, dermatology, orthodontics, endodontics, and oral surgery all make a killing but some work fairly more hours/week.
 

masaraksh

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
1,781
Reaction score
2,201
derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm
 

zero0

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
1,318
Reaction score
2,779
I vaguely remember looking over some data as a pre-med for obvious reasons pertaining to this very question, and I think oral surgery won out, followed by orthodontics and derm
 

ERDOC555

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
564
Reaction score
1,058
In no particular order for the medical specialties:

GI, Derm, ER, Rads (many of these guys get 2-3 months vacation per year), Cosmetic Plastic Surgery, Ortho, Some ENTs, a select few cash only successful Psych

I also remember seeing a thread a while back that claimed to list true hourly wages, and I want to say that neuro topped the list, but when looking solely at $/hr the next closest ones weren't that far off. I don't remember the exact details though or where I saw it.
 

Strider_91

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
242
Reaction score
214
You also need to consider time lost in training. Neurosurgery and oral surgery takes a very long time. This is many years of lost wages. EM on the other hand is a 3 year residency and you immediately start making near your top salary. This counts for something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

yaya97

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
327
Reaction score
427
For dental, ortho is pretty much dying but OMFS is the specialty that I believe pays the most, but it’s also an extremely long route. You can be extremely successful in any specialty for dentistry as long as you’re business savy, fast and good. Also, if you’re willing to work in more rural/unsaturated areas and not just anywhere like NY & CA, you’re most likely going to make pretty good $$$ while enjoying a nice simple 8-5 work day 4-5 times a week.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

zero0

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
1,318
Reaction score
2,779
For dental, ortho is pretty much dying but OMFS is the specialty that I believe pays the most, but it’s also an extremely long route. You can be extremely successful in any specialty for dentistry as long as you’re business savy, fast and good. Also, if you’re willing to work in more rural/unsaturated areas and not just anywhere like NY & CA, you’re most likely going to make pretty good $$$ while enjoying a nice simple 8-5 work day 4-5 times a week.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Why's ortho dying?
 

LoGo

MD PhD
2+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2016
Messages
185
Reaction score
512
For medical, derm is probably the best per hour and routinely has low work hours (relative to other specialties). Some ortho subspecialties are probably close per hour, but typically work more hours. A pure cosmetic plastics practice is not common, but that’s also probably good per hour.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

yaya97

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
327
Reaction score
427
Why's ortho dying?
Because of the creation of stuff like invisalign. Now about ever GP can take a few CE's and now do fast braces for their patients as opposed to referring them out as often as they used to be before this. Helps GP's pockets, hurts Ortho. Of course, not all problems can be fixed with stuff like invisalign, so more complex cases do still get referred out.
 

Medin2017

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
816
For dental, ortho is pretty much dying but OMFS is the specialty that I believe pays the most, but it’s also an extremely long route. You can be extremely successful in any specialty for dentistry as long as you’re business savy, fast and good. Also, if you’re willing to work in more rural/unsaturated areas and not just anywhere like NY & CA, you’re most likely going to make pretty good $$$ while enjoying a nice simple 8-5 work day 4-5 times a week.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
4 years after dental school is about the same or less than many medical specialties, so no it's not long at all. The worst part about dentistryis the cost of schools but if you have scholarships or a cheap school, it can be just as cheap. For OMFS, t&t is still killing it as far as I know (from reading online and talking to OMFS residents/grads). Averages for ADA is 460k but is a pretty small sample size. If you have a good partnership or private practice (most OMFS do this instead of working at a hospital for the $), you can probably do equal to this or better. This is b/c the specialty take home % is higher than general dentistry (e.g. 40-50%). So, for example, a OMFS who is doing decently can theoretically have 5-6 wisdom tooth extraction cases in a day. If we assume 1-2k per case and taking home 40-50% of that, you can see how the numbers would become kind of crazy. Dentists on dental town working at corps have seen omfs have 10-20 cases in 1 day on extremely busy days. Also the lifestyle is unbelievably good contrary to popular belief. Many private practice OMFS (and all the ones in my hometown anyway) work like 4 days a week 9-5.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Medin2017

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
816
You also need to consider time lost in training. Neurosurgery and oral surgery takes a very long time. This is many years of lost wages. EM on the other hand is a 3 year residency and you immediately start making near your top salary. This counts for something.
OMFS only takes a long time if you want to do the 6 year route to be a real doctor which is a huge waste of money imo, otherwise it's 4 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)

yaya97

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
327
Reaction score
427
OMFS only takes a long time if you want to do the 6 year route to be a real doctor which is a huge waste of money imo, otherwise it's 4 years.
A total waste of time seeing as the 4 year option exists. So thats 4 years of D school and then 4 years of med school just to have pretty much the same outcome as someone that did 4 years of d school and 6 year med school for OMFS. Yes, overall still end up having an amazing life just one is 2 years less. lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Stagg737

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
9,679
Reaction score
12,638

Not very accurate at all. These numbers were calculated by taking the average salary of physicians of the given field and assuming a 40 hour work week as the first comment on the article points out. I don't have solid data, but take OB/Gyn vs. psych:

According to Medscape's physician compensation report, OB/Gyn averaged 286K while psych averaged 235k.

Psych legitimately averages around a 40 hour work week, and the reports I've seen say it's actually closer to 35, but we'll stick with 40. That means someone working 48 weeks of the year at 40 hours per week is at 1920 hours for the year, so 235,000/1920 = $122.40/hr.

The numbers I've seen for OB/Gyn say they're working on average close to 60 hours/wk, but we'll say 55 (which I think most fields will be close to). For 48 weeks at 55 hours per week, that's 2,640 hours/yr. 285,000/2640 = 107.95/hr, $15/hr less than psychiatry.

So according to Becker's, OB/Gyn is making $40+/hr more than psych, which I have a hard time believing given the calculations I just did and considering how much worse the average OB's work week is compared to an average psychiatrist. I don't think there is a truly accurate report or metric that has been put out for hourly wage, or if there is I'm not aware of it. I think in general Derm is king in terms of hourly wage along with procedural subspecialties (ortho/spine and neurosurg) up there as well. There are also certain models that can pull in bank like cash only PP or strong DPC markets, but those are far less common.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users

Medin2017

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
816
A total waste of time seeing as the 4 year option exists. So thats 4 years of D school and then 4 years of med school just to have pretty much the same outcome as someone that did 4 years of d school and 6 year med school for OMFS. Yes, overall still end up having an amazing life just one is 2 years less. lol
You mean 4 years of residency but yes. Who knows what the future of medicine and dentistry will look like in 5-10 years, but as of now OMFS is pretty gravy. The people perpetuating the whole "OMFS = surgeon so their hours suck" lie make it less competitive too. And despite the fact that rank matters, crushing the CBSE (which isn't that hard by omfs standards) can offset that a bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

zero0

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
1,318
Reaction score
2,779
Because of the creation of stuff like invisalign. Now about ever GP can take a few CE's and now do fast braces for their patients as opposed to referring them out as often as they used to be before this. Helps GP's pockets, hurts Ortho. Of course, not all problems can be fixed with stuff like invisalign, so more complex cases do still get referred out.
Yeah figured. Meanwhile, wisdom teeth are a cash cow. I just can't see GPs doing anesthesia required for those cases, but wouldn't be surprised...
 

Medin2017

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
816
Yeah figured. Meanwhile, wisdom teeth are a cash cow. I just can't see GPs doing anesthesia required for those cases, but wouldn't be surprised...
Some can I think, but the complicated cases (impacted 3rds I believe) are avoided. And complications. And I'm sure well off people would choose an oral surgeon over a general dentist for implants.
 

W19

Membership Revoked
Removed
2+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
6,005
Reaction score
4,351
Dentistry would be up there since most dentists work 4 days/wk and make 200k+... However, dental school COA is outrageous.
 

Medin2017

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
816
Dentistry would be up there since most dentists work 4 days/wk and make 200k+... However, dental school COA is outrageous.
Yep. Wouldn't do it if I wasn't sure I was going to get scholarships/get into cheap schools. Probably wouldn't even have done it if I didn't want to specialize looking back on it.
 

iqe2010

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
2,127
Reaction score
2,293
I'm not familiar with dentistry at all, you guys are saying it's more expensive than med school?

I met a guy who was going the oral surgeon route and he said he had to do 2 years of medical school on top of dental school.

Thinking about his debt gave me a headache.
 

Stagg737

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
9,679
Reaction score
12,638
I'm not familiar with dentistry at all, you guys are saying it's more expensive than med school?

I met a guy who was going the oral surgeon route and he said he had to do 2 years of medical school on top of dental school.

Thinking about his debt gave me a headache.

School itself is about the same cost, maybe a little more expensive. However, physicians get paid for residency, from what I understand dentists actually pay to go to residency which is insane. The dentists/dental students here can correct that if I'm wrong, but it's just more years of paying before you actually earn anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

yaya97

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
327
Reaction score
427
School itself is about the same cost, maybe a little more expensive. However, physicians get paid for residency, from what I understand dentists actually pay to go to residency which is insane. The dentists/dental students here can correct that if I'm wrong, but it's just more years of paying before you actually earn anything.

Some residencies are paid and some you pay for. If you don’t have a state school to go to, you’re looking at a nice range of about $300,000-$500,000 before taxes for a lot of the private schools. Some state schools I interviewed at are now near $400,000.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)

Medin2017

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
816
I'm not familiar with dentistry at all, you guys are saying it's more expensive than med school?

I met a guy who was going the oral surgeon route and he said he had to do 2 years of medical school on top of dental school.

Thinking about his debt gave me a headache.
He wants an MD for his own reasons. Someone with only finances in mind would never do that. They call it the 1 million dollar decision bc that's the amount you're likely to lose.

Yep some schools are stupid expensive but that's why you either do well enough to get scholarships or live somewhere that has some cheaper schools. If not, avoid dentistry. As someone with the capability to do both, I knew I could get scholarships even at a school that's not too expensive. Comes out to be cheaper than most medical schools in my case. Really feel sorry for dental students not specializing that go to schools that are expensive. Not a good way to go imo
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Medin2017

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
816
School itself is about the same cost, maybe a little more expensive. However, physicians get paid for residency, from what I understand dentists actually pay to go to residency which is insane. The dentists/dental students here can correct that if I'm wrong, but it's just more years of paying before you actually earn anything.
Omfs and peds is stipend just like medicine so they're still great. This is another reason Ortho is bad now. For profit residencies not only make you pay, but they artificially Saturday the market with people that didn't have the stats to match normally. If derm had done that it would be terrible now too I assume, but luckily they care about their people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand derm is well reimbursed because they bottleneck their supply like crazy, not because it takes any more intelligence or skill to do over other specialties correct?
 

iqe2010

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
2,127
Reaction score
2,293
Paying for residency is crazy. I never knew that.

Can a general dentist expect what a PCP makes (170-220k)?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Medin2017

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
816
Paying for residency is crazy. I never knew that.

Can a general dentist expect what a PCP makes (170-220k)?
Easily. They start at like 120-130 I'm sure after three to four years (where MD are in residency) they can likely do 170+ with more speed and skills that they learned in that timr. Some corporates advertise 200+ but I wouldn't want to do that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

mistafab

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
1,868
Reaction score
4,018
You are getting the wrong answers because you asked the wrong question.

The highest paid specialty is not trading their time for money. The highest paid specialties are the specialties that allow you to run a business that makes your money make you money. So a psychiatrist who runs a practice w/ psych NP + 3 psychologists + 1 social worker would make lots more than someone prostituting their time for money trying to hammer at hips/knees and then trading that time for compensation through some insurance provider.

Now that my rant is over, I will stop talking out of my ***
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

Stagg737

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
9,679
Reaction score
12,638
Omfs and peds is stipend just like medicine so they're still great. This is another reason Ortho is bad now. For profit residencies not only make you pay, but they artificially Saturday the market with people that didn't have the stats to match normally. If derm had done that it would be terrible now too I assume, but luckily they care about their people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand derm is well reimbursed because they bottleneck their supply like crazy, not because it takes any more intelligence or skill to do over other specialties correct?

Derm makes so much because they see so many patients per day. Most PCPs will see 20-30 patients per day. Dermatologists easily see 50, and there are plenty who see many more than that. It's pretty easy to understand why a dermatologist would make double a PCP (averages of 386k vs. 209k in 2017 per Medscape) if they're seeing double the patients. Plus many derms also have a cosmetic side to their practice, and cosmetic medicine always pulls in more money. Idk if they can do that because of a bottleneck or just because of the format of their clinical practice, that would be a question for the derm sub-forum.
 

Medin2017

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
944
Reaction score
816
Derm makes so much because they see so many patients per day. Most PCPs will see 20-30 patients per day. Dermatologists easily see 50, and there are plenty who see many more than that. It's pretty easy to understand why a dermatologist would make double a PCP (averages of 386k vs. 209k in 2017 per Medscape) if they're seeing double the patients. Plus many derms also have a cosmetic side to their practice, and cosmetic medicine always pulls in more money. Idk if they can do that because of a bottleneck or just because of the format of their clinical practice, that would be a question for the derm sub-forum.
Got it that's just what I read online. Like why you need a 250+ to be competitive is bc few spots which translates into lower supply. But yea I definitely know despite their low hours it's no cakewalk. I understand they also can have surgical procedures?
 

Stagg737

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
9,679
Reaction score
12,638
Got it that's just what I read online. Like why you need a 250+ to be competitive is bc few spots which translates into lower supply. But yea I definitely know despite their low hours it's no cakewalk. I understand they also can have surgical procedures?

There are some, but not common. I believe Moh's is the most common. Again, something you'd have to ask in the derm sub-forums or some of the derm oriented users directly, as I've never been interested in derm.
 

QueenJames

Membership Revoked
Removed
5+ Year Member
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,626
You are getting the wrong answers because you asked the wrong question.

The highest paid specialty is not trading their time for money. The highest paid specialties are the specialties that allow you to run a business that makes your money make you money. So a psychiatrist who runs a practice w/ psych NP + 3 psychologists + 1 social worker would make lots more than someone prostituting their time for money trying to hammer at hips/knees and then trading that time for compensation through some insurance provider.

Now that my rant is over, I will stop talking out of my ***

YADADAMEEAAAANNNNNNNNN

*throws up "T" sign with both hands with the thizz face*
 

rabbott1971

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
928
Reaction score
1,270
Also there comes a point when business savvy plays a significant role. It is the business acumen of professionals -- not disparities in competence or skill -- that allows some to make $4 million when their colleagues make $400,000.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)

QueenJames

Membership Revoked
Removed
5+ Year Member
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,626
I think this depends on many factors....

My friend just started his family med job in some rural location with a major network of clinics and they are paying him around 280k for 40 hours. All outpatient deal. No weekends. No call. Apparently, top earners in his practice are clearing more than 400K if they do pick up call 1-2x a month.

But given the nature... that's pretty damn chill I'd say... as much as FM is considered "lowly" on SDN lol
 
6

68PGunner

I think this depends on many factors....

My friend just started his family med job in some rural location with a major network of clinics and they are paying him around 280k for 40 hours. All outpatient deal. No weekends. No call. Apparently, top earners in his practice are clearing more than 400K if they do pick up call 1-2x a month.

But given the nature... that's pretty damn chill I'd say... as much as FM is considered "lowly" on SDN lol

It’s still considered a not lucrative specialty bc the other specialties that are putting in the same # of hrs worked as your FM doc earning 400K will be clearing 600K. Both of my mentors are FM and they both said anything but FM or primary care.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

QueenJames

Membership Revoked
Removed
5+ Year Member
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,626
It’s still considered a not lucrative specialty bc the other specialties that are putting in the same # of hrs worked as your FM doc earning 400K will be clearing 600K. Both of my mentors are FM and they both said anything but FM or primary care.

Right. Then there is this thing called taxes... which all of a sudden don't really make your 600K THAT much more appealing than the 400K because there's MORE bank that's gonna go back to the government (this is again... subjective). Brought this same problem up to him and he said he'd much rather have the 400K (like 240/250K AFTER tax), less mental and physical stress than the other specialties that may be clearing more, and use that time to brush up and expand the millions of dollars worth of family businesses and properties his parents are leaving him that he can work with on the side. He has no loans as well. So he's pretty much ahead of like 80% of doctors that are gonna be paying off their loan payments for the next 20-30 years (minus those few exceptions who attack their loans aggressively).

This is obviously a subjective deal for many... as everybody has different situations... but for those students who may be similar to him (no loans and parents paying for his education)... choosing the fields in medicine that don't require much time or actual strain and give you SOME good coin can be an advantage than the specialty like ER where there are constant night-shift changes and not much longevity in the field. I am yet to see one EM doc working in his mid 50s whereas I see 70 y/o FM and IM docs STILL seeing patients. It's not cause they have to either. They legitimately love their field. This is not the case for everyone... but these are through personal friends and family I know. It probably doesn't apply to everybody obviously.

I think the loans factor has a HUGEEE part in this debate (if you wanna call it that).

But different strokes for different folks.
 

anbuitachi

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
6,559
Reaction score
3,333
Dentists make a ton of money, but im a MD not a dentist so i can't throw out numbers at you.

In MD fields, the highest are EM, derm, neurosurgery/spine surgery. Cash psych can make a ton too
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Noice

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
79
Reaction score
59
JAMA Internal Medicine - October 25, 2010 - Physician Wages Across Specialties

KjEwvVt.png

"The primary care wage gap was likely conservative owing to exclusion of radiologists, anesthesiologists, and pathologists."

I can see why SDNers are so into EM.

3q5yyJY.jpg


This old thread came up with these numbers.

6mTrVaV.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

MilIntel

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
Hey all, if you’re interested in plastic surgery and a 3rd or fourth year looking for a serious leg up, PM me! I’ve started a tutoring course that is going very well for those who have joined!
 

SunsFun

VICE president
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
2,595
Reaction score
1,290
JAMA Internal Medicine - October 25, 2010 - Physician Wages Across Specialties

KjEwvVt.png

"The primary care wage gap was likely conservative owing to exclusion of radiologists, anesthesiologists, and pathologists."

I can see why SDNers are so into EM.

3q5yyJY.jpg


This old thread came up with these numbers.

6mTrVaV.png
Some people seem to have a gigantic chip on their shoulder to go that far. Just be happy with what you’re doing and stop trying to justify it with some Voodoo mathematics that mean exactly zero for individual healthcare practitioner.
 

P7898

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
816
Reaction score
684
Some can I think, but the complicated cases (impacted 3rds I believe) are avoided. And complications. And I'm sure well off people would choose an oral surgeon over a general dentist for implants.

Super GP's, like mine, does wisdom teeth and IV Sedation. Contracts a CRNA out for the day and schedules the surgeries early in the morning. In addition with guided implant placement, implants are not difficult to do. Especially if you take the time map out a guide says my GP. This guy does everything to a degree as a specialist (from the ones I shadowed) but just takes a little longer to do; but it is all about the end result! Pretty cool to see! When GP's get proficient enough after 10 years, he makes $450-$550k (on a 45 hour work week) range every year. However, he has to constantly take CE courses which he says can be overwhelming at times.
 
Last edited:

surfline

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Messages
144
Reaction score
261
Super GP's, like mine, does wisdom teeth and IV Sedation. Contracts a CRNA out for the day and schedules the surgeries early in the morning. In addition with guided implant placement, implants are not difficult to do. Especially if you take the time map out a guide says my GP. This guy does everything to a degree as a specialist (from the ones I shadowed) but just takes a little longer to do; but it is all about the end result! Pretty cool to see! When GP's get proficient enough after 10 years, he makes $450-$550k (on a 45 hour work week) range every year. However, he has to constantly take CE courses which he says can be overwhelming at times.
I'm sure your local oral surgeon is ecstatic every time he/she has to fix your "super" GPs mistakes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

P7898

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
816
Reaction score
684
I'm sure your local oral surgeon is ecstatic every time he/she has to fix your "super" GPs mistakes.

Not really. He was an engineer before and is very methodical when using the surgical guides for implant placement. Where as the oral surgery practice I was an assistant in for a year did them free hand and were not perfectly parallel like my GP. I am sure he has had some mess up (just like everyone OS/Perio/GP - no one is perfect). My GP right now is actually fixing a mistake made by an oral surgeon in another state but that doesn't mean that OS is bad; just like if my GP made a mistake.

But a lot of patients like that their GP does them because then he can see the treatment plan from start to finish because he will be doing the crown as well (general consensus when I talked to them). To each his own.
 
Last edited:
Top