What are the implications of not applying to residency?

[ChasingMavericks]

Aside from the fact of, not matching into a residency.

Hey guys, recently, I've been fantasizing about chasing one of my other dreams I had as a university student after graduating medical school. To achieve this, though, it would take me a couple of years post-medical school. This would mean that I would not be applying to any residency programs. However, I would like to come back to practice medicine and hopefully complete a residency some time afterwards. I'm not entirely sure about the implications of this, but off the top of my head I can imagine I would not be able to ever match in a competitive specialty since, well y'know, something's bound to happen that you guys will tell me about lmao. However, needless to say, the residencies that I'm interested are psych and neuro.

So, all in all, I guess the question boils down to, what would I need to do to match into residency if I'm not applying as a U.S M.D. senior anymore, if possible?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MedDoc305]

Aside from the fact of, not matching into a residency.

Hey guys, recently, I've been fantasizing about chasing one of my other dreams I had as a university student after graduating medical school. To achieve this, though, it would take me a couple of years post-medical school. This would mean that I would not be applying to any residency programs. However, I would like to come back to practice medicine and hopefully complete a residency some time afterwards. I'm not entirely sure about the implications of this, but off the top of my head I can imagine I would not be able to ever match in a competitive specialty since, well y'know, something's bound to happen that you guys will tell me about lmao. However, needless to say, the residencies that I'm interested are psych and neuro.

So, all in all, I guess the question boils down to, what would I need to do to match into residency if I'm not applying as a U.S M.D. senior anymore, if possible?

What is the dream? Is it something that can be done part-time, advancing that goal, while in residency?

 

[ChasingMavericks]

What is the dream? Is it something that can be done part-time, advancing that goal, while in residency?

Nope - Teaching English in a foreign country.

 

[deleted480308]

Nope - Teaching English in a foreign country.

Horrible idea. You will always know english and other countries will always want to learn it. You will not always have a reasonable chance of getting a residency which then leads to almost guaranteed >$200k forever

 

[ChasingMavericks]

Horrible idea. You will always know english and other countries will always want to learn it. You will not always have a reasonable chance of getting a residency which then leads to almost guaranteed >$200k forever

I know. It's such a hard choice to make, Ron.
But, from my vantage point, finishing residency seems so far away - i'll be in my thirties by then.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

I know. It's such a hard choice to make, Ron.
But, from my vantage point, finishing residency seems so far away - i'll be in my thirties by then.

Why can't you teach English in other countries after residency? You'll only be in your 30s, could also use your board certification in programs like MSF and the like.

 

[deleted480308]

I know. It's such a hard choice to make, Ron.
But, from my vantage point, finishing residency seems so far away - i'll be in my thirties by then.

Since no one over 30 can cross the border you should probably just go now

 

[Oedipa Maas]

Why not pursue a residency with a global health focus? I know UVM has a psych residency where you can do an elective to rotate in another country. I’m sure there are others. Look for programs like that - you may be able to make some connections during your time abroad in residency that would facilitate you teaching abroad there in the future.

 

[stickgirl390]

Teaching English overseas opportunities are a dime a dozen. Residency is once in a lifetime.

 

[scoopdaboop]

Dude, teaching english at a foreign country is like what Bio grads with a 2.9 GPA do because they can't find a job. Go to residency, invest lots of money, then teach. The only reason you can possibly even contemplate going to a foreign country right now is probably because you think you can teach there, then party all night with hot foreign girls... unrealistic.

 

[Sephirakra]

Aside from the fact of, not matching into a residency.

Hey guys, recently, I've been fantasizing about chasing one of my other dreams I had as a university student after graduating medical school. To achieve this, though, it would take me a couple of years post-medical school. This would mean that I would not be applying to any residency programs. However, I would like to come back to practice medicine and hopefully complete a residency some time afterwards. I'm not entirely sure about the implications of this, but off the top of my head I can imagine I would not be able to ever match in a competitive specialty since, well y'know, something's bound to happen that you guys will tell me about lmao. However, needless to say, the residencies that I'm interested are psych and neuro.

So, all in all, I guess the question boils down to, what would I need to do to match into residency if I'm not applying as a U.S M.D. senior anymore, if possible?

I taught English in a foreign country. It can be fun, but it's not worth putting off residency for.

 

[ortnakas]

The world will need English teachers in a few years, but when you’re a few years out from medical school, getting a residency slot will be significantly more difficult. Do your dreams the other way around.

(also - with the pandemic a U.S. passport is next to useless for international travel at the moment. Not sure those companies are even hiring right now)

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If you take an extended break after medical school (more than 1-2 years) doing non-clinical work, you risk not get a residency, at all. And your choice of fields will be very limited.

 

[ChasingMavericks]

If you take an extended break after medical school (more than 1-2 years) doing non-clinical work, you risk not get a residency, at all. And your choice of fields will be very limited.

But, how come?

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

But, how come?

Because PDs rather choose to train recent graduates whose clinical knowledge is still fresh enough in their head to train and improve on. You're always at a disadvantage applying after graduating as opposed to before - you could argue that maybe it isn't a big deal but that's the way it is.

 

[deleted480308]

But, how come?

Now i feel you are trolling but in case a really dumb reader comes by later I will explain it.

1. it would make me question your likelihood of finishing my residency if you couldn’t just muster the basic tenacity to do it at the right time
2. Medicine changes, you show up 5 years late and you have to relearn a lot of things
3. #2 assumes you remember everything you learned which I would assume you won’t. You become a liability of an intern, one that needs more handholding and supervision. No one wants that

 

[radsisrad]

Nope - Teaching English in a foreign country.

It's 2020. They have apps for this now.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

'Johnny Walker' blends roles to build communities

He's traveled the world playing in bands from MC5 to the White Stripes. But Johnny Wirick's, aka Johnny Walker's, latest audiences seek him out in his role as chief psychiatric resident at University Hospital.

www.soapboxmedia.com

It’s possible. But it has to be a“whorthwhile” delay, I.e joining a VC firm to develop medical devices, getting an extra degree or going on tour with the white stripes. Unfortunately teaching English as a second language will not be seen as a reason to delay residency unless for instance it’s in your country of origin or it’s some kind of mission thing; if it’s just an itch you want to scratch it will probably not be viewed favorably. Also you have to consider that you’d probably provide more valuable service if you complete residency and go do global health; and if the mood strikes you teach English.

 

[Goro]

No residency, no practicing medicine.

Medical school graduates are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to being ranked and interviewed by program directors compared to u.s. seniors.

Just check the program director survey for evidence of this.

 

[Mad Jack]

I know. It's such a hard choice to make, Ron.
But, from my vantage point, finishing residency seems so far away - i'll be in my thirties by then.

It's likely a choice between teaching English or ever being a physician, as your chances dwindle every year post graduation. Choose wisely.

 

[ChasingMavericks]

No residency, no practicing medicine.

Medical school graduates are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to being ranked and interviewed by program directors compared to u.s. seniors.

Just check the program director survey for evidence of this.

Based on what Ron and AnonymousDoctorGuy said, i can see why this is the case, but how difficult are we talking about?

What could I do subsequently to improve my chances?

 

[Goro]

Based on what Ron and AnonymousDoctorGuy said, i can see why this is the case, but how difficult are we talking about?

What could I do subsequently to improve my chances?

As I mentioned, consult:

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-PD-Survey-1.pdf

Improve your chances? Do your residency.

Indulge me, OP, why did you even bother going to medical school?

 

[deleted480308]

Based on what Ron and AnonymousDoctorGuy said, i can see why this is the case, but how difficult are we talking about?

What could I do subsequently to improve my chances?

Don’t make bad, short sighted decisions. I might not go academic so my opinion might be irrelevant but I have seen a lot of resident rank meetings and “they did WHAT for x years? Just left medicine? Nope. I don’t want to retrain someone who can’t stay the course”

 

[Mad Jack]

Based on what Ron and AnonymousDoctorGuy said, i can see why this is the case, but how difficult are we talking about?

What could I do subsequently to improve my chances?

Your chances are basically going to go from 93% to 50%, so you're basically increasing the chances of never being a doctor by over 600%

 

[Mad Jack]

Don’t make bad, short sighted decisions. I might not go academic so my opinion might be irrelevant but I have seen a lot of resident rank meetings and “they did WHAT for x years? Just left medicine? Nope. I don’t want to retrain someone who can’t stay the course”

Yeah, the same people that flake before residency for anything other than a research degree are the same sorts of people that flake after or during intern year

 

[ChasingMavericks]

As I mentioned, consult:

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-PD-Survey-1.pdf

Improve your chances? Do your residency.

Indulge me, OP, why did you even bother going to medical school?

I was just thinking I could do other things while at it.
I thought it was perfectly reasonable to indulge in other things while I completed by career.
For my perspective, medicine shouldn't be my master status.

Edit: the link isn't working

 

[kraskadva]

Dude, between digital solutions (duolingo/online platforms/etc) and COVID, that's a market that's fast disappearing in any 1st or even 2nd world countries. So unless you had in mind earning pennies in a 3rd world country, teaching English internationally is not an open avenue even if it didn't carry all the consequences of med school debt + no residency. And I say this a former international English teacher who still talks to folks in the business.
When you do add in those consequences, that ship has really sailed for you, unless you're intending to just completely implode your life - which is concerning since your other posts are asking about family-friendliness of specialties - you can neither raise a family nor pay off student loans by teaching English, as the market currently stands. Heck, my single friends in the business have to cobble together multiple contracts and still supplement their income in other ways to make ends meet.

 

[ChasingMavericks]

Dude, between digital solutions (duolingo/online platforms/etc) and COVID, that's a market that's fast disappearing in any 1st or even 2nd world countries. So unless you had in mind earning pennies in a 3rd world country, teaching English internationally is not an open avenue even if it didn't carry all the consequences of med school debt + no residency. And I say this a former international English teacher who still talks to folks in the business.
When you do add in those consequences, that ship has really sailed for you, unless you're intending to just completely implode your life - which is concerning since your other posts are asking about family-friendliness of specialties - you can neither raise a family nor pay off student loans by teaching English, as the market currently stands. Heck, my single friends in the business have to cobble together multiple contracts and still supplement their income in other ways to make ends meet.

Oh, wow, this really hurts to hear..

 

[IMGASMD]

You guys who took time to answer are much better people than me.

 

[operaman]

Oh, wow, this really hurts to hear..

Hurts less now than if you’d actually delayed residency and wrecked your medical career!

Seriously, nobody wants someone who’s been away that long. Even if you match you would be at high risk for not finishing. You would likely find yourself under the microscope early on and that can be tough even on good residents.

If you want out, just do a short residency. If I were you and felt so strongly about it, I would do a short residency and then start doing locums gigs and teach overseas in between. You could make a nice salary which would cover your overseas expenses while getting paid crap to teach English. When you got tired of it, you could come back stateside and take a full time position.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

Oh, wow, this really hurts to hear..

I assume you have this idea of teaching English as a way to help people in some capacity, I imagine that is also why you entered medicine - use that. Almost anyone who speaks English can teach it, very few people have the knowledge and expertise of a medical doctor. Use the needed skill.

 

[jurassicpark]

Dude, teaching english at a foreign country is like what Bio grads with a 2.9 GPA do because they can't find a job. Go to residency, invest lots of money, then teach. The only reason you can possibly even contemplate going to a foreign country right now is probably because you think you can teach there, then party all night with hot foreign girls... unrealistic.

This is the ONLY reason I can think of someone would realistically do this if they had other options, and having an MD and the money to back it up after a residency creates a lot more very fun party nights the likes of which most of you can only still dream of.

That being said, if the dream was to do like missions work because of a passion in English, humanitarian outreach all of which can still be achieved even in the old age of 30. In fact, much more so. Once again, having the MD and board certification with real marketable skills opens up so many doors that you can do much more if humanitarian works is your goal (and teach English at the same time). But to go romping off right now as others have explained would SERIOUSLY jeopardize all of it and your future career. You've already been in delayed gratification mode, just be patient a little longer and the world will be your oyster.

 

[Goro]

Oh, wow, this really hurts to hear..

Good thing you're an M1, right? Then you can get this out of your system now.

 

[kraskadva]

Oh, wow, this really hurts to hear..

an ounce of prevention...

If the point of this dream was to travel, and English teaching just as a means, then listen to what everybody has been saying here - do a residency and then you will have a lot more options. Doctors Without Borders is always hiring and you can scratch the itch that way, or do mission trips, or even just take actual vacations - with a real paycheck to support that. Which you would never get from teaching English at this point.

Those folks who may be telling you how great of a lifestyle it is either did it a long time ago (I sure had a fantastic time doing it 10+ years ago) or are forgetting that they did it at a point in their lives when they were unencumbered by debts/responsibilities, which you now are. It was always 100% a game for the young and free, or rarely the retirees looking for adventure. But never something doable for those midway down a career path unless they had decided to give up on that other career/life completely - and those people were some midlife crisis sad sacks fo sho.

 

[kraskadva]

Also, as a M4 in my mid 30's now ITSNOTTHATOLD
So stop thinking you're gonna be old and decrepit when you get out of residency.

 

[penpenclown]

Have you ever taught English to ESL students stateside? Maybe get a TEFL certification and teach/volunteer on the side while doing residency. Then you'd have good experience beforehand and might be able to get a better job that doesn't take any native English speaker with a pulse.

 

[kraskadva]

a better job that doesn't take any native English speaker with a pulse

Those jobs require a masters or PhD in English/linguistics/teaching + years of full time experience. Some piddling amount of volunteering ain't gonna get it. And TEFL work stateside (paid or unpaid) is a joke - there's very little of it to start with and what is there 100% will not fit into a residency schedule.
OP just needs to give up on this idea.

 

[IMG69]

As someone who briefly attempted to study Medicine in China and taught English on the side for cash in hand (illegally); what's the point all the teachers do is like 3 hours of class a day and then go get drunk and party, I had a russian friend (female) who taught 6 months old english - yes, the mothers sat there and held them as she said ABC (basically they paid to look at her), good money though. I suggest taking a month off and going to SE Asia and working in a bar or something much more fun. You'll get treated like dirt if you become an ESL teacher and looked down on all the locals roll their eyes when you say that.

 

[ChasingMavericks]

As someone who briefly attempted to study Medicine in China and taught English on the side for cash in hand (illegally); what's the point all the teachers do is like 3 hours of class a day and then go get drunk and party, I had a russian friend (female) who taught 6 months old english - yes, the mothers sat there and held them as she said ABC (basically they paid to look at her), good money though. I suggest taking a month off and going to SE Asia and working in a bar or something much more fun. You'll get treated like dirt if you become an ESL teacher and looked down on all the locals roll their eyes when you say that.

I would actually love to teach in China haha

 

[sella.turcica]

Why not teach English over Zoom?

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

I would actually love to teach in China haha

As a literal answer to your question-the reason it is hard to match into residency when you did not just graduate is because one of the main filters used by programs to give interviews is "year of graduation". Most programs don't even look at students who did not just graduate unless they are doing a pre-lim, have a connection to the institution, etc.

 

[QuizzicalApe]

Between college and medical school I spent a year doing Americorps because I realized it would be my last chance to ever just uproot myself for a year and do something random like that.

Unless you plan on not becoming a doctor anymore, this ship has sailed. There will be other adventures in the future, they'll just be different.

 

[Ganon]

having an MD and the money to back it up after a residency creates a lot more very fun party nights the likes of which most of you can only still dream of.

 

[Eye-eye]

I've taught abroad. It was a blast. But it's not worth potentially throwing away your future career, job and financial security, and ability to pay off the massive debt you're accumulating, not by a long shot. Unless the goal is to just move to that country and live there forever, and that's more important to you than medicine, I can't see why this would still be at all enticing for you. It's a fun experience, but as others have said, this is not the time to go romping and gallivanting around. If you DO think you really want to live in some foreign country, and that's the impetus, either drop out now and go do it, giving up medicine forever (but know that you'll probably change your mind and regret it in a few years) or finish residency and go do medical missions there, where you can quite possibly find a nice physician job full time if you want. There doesn't have to be a medicine vs international experience dichotomy if you wait until your training is over, but if you don't wait, you'd likely give up clinical medicine because of a few years' impatience. The options afforded to an attending are vast. Those afforded to a grad multiple years from graduation without a residency... not so much.

 

[Bacchus]

Finish school. Do residency. Get a job. The job will be mire than enough to fill the altruistic hole in your heart if residency doesn’t turn it into a “shallow grave.” All cynicism aside, your job will be rewarding enough.

 

[Espressso]

I respect your dreams. But you could theoretically go teach English abroad after residency AND work as a physician overseas as well. Do residency.

...Or don't if you're applying this year. Less applicants the better honestly

 

[JSReed]

Honestly just finish residency and take a year off.

Everyone keeps suggesting working abroad, but this is wayyyy harder than you think as an american. There's tons of visa/legal issues, no one wants to pay over the odds for an american (per diem or post-diff), and you're going to make way less than you would in america. You could get a humanitarian position in a "third world" country (the appropriate term is low-income country), but most of these are active disasters or war zones where you're not going to do much ~*traveling*~. Plus honestly, since so many of the foreign aid programs are disease specific, you're going to need to be an expert in that field (residency, fellowship, some program mgmt skills, etc etc).

If you want to travel, just travel. If you want to teach, just teach (could even tutor med students). Don't try to mix the two and live a millennial fantasy. The time for that was pre-med school.

 

[ChasingMavericks]

This makes me so frustrated because the day I finish residency is so far away. sooo far away.

 

[MediCane2006]

This makes me so frustrated because the day I finish residency is so far away. sooo far away.

Trust me, it’s not. “The days drag, but the years fly by” is a cliche for a reason.

 

[M&L]

Trust me, it’s not. “The days drag, but the years fly by” is a cliche for a reason.

thats so true..... i feel like i JUST started medical school, and i am already deep into fall semester M2.... studying for step 1. Then, - blink and ill be applying for residencies in just 1.5 years.