What are the pros and cons of becoming a pharmacist preceptor?

[swatchgirl]

I work in retail. My RXM says I *have" to become a preceptor soon. Are there any advantages and disadvantages to that? What if I prefer not to become one? Can they punish you for that?

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[gwarm01]

It doesn't sound like your manager is giving you much choice.

PRO: Keep your job, receive "satisfactory" yearly review, have extra tech help if you happen to get a student who has work experience.

CON: You will be followed around by the sort of students accepted into pharmacy school these days

 

[Apples2Oranges]

If you want to keep your job. Hopefully you work around a pharmacy school with some decent credentials or you're going to have to deal with some students just slightly more useful than concrete.

 

[Old Timer]

Much have I learned from my teachers.
and more from any colleagues than from my teachers,
and from my students I have learned the most.

Talmud:
Ta'anit 7a -1

 

[Dred Pirate]

pro's - $$ - either direct from the school, or $$ towards CE/conferences etc
They keep me on my toes, and I learn a little bit

con's -extra work, being followed around, they slow you down, etc.

 

[mentos]

Pros - Free labor
Cons - they'll probably have no work experience and interrupt you with dumb questions every minute. May negate the free labor.

 

[beautifulrobot]

Pros - you're upholding the pharmacist oath you took ("I will utilize my knowledge, skills, experience, and values to fulfill my obligation to educate and train the next generation of pharmacists"), you become more engaged in the profession and feel more fulfilled by your work, you develop a stronger professional network with the local schools and potentially other preceptors, and you become a better pharmacist by teaching others how to be a pharmacist (e.g. sometimes you don't realize you don't really know a certain process or concept that well until you try to explain it to someone else, plus students will often ask me questions that i wouldnt have thought to ask myself).

Being a good preceptor takes time and practice, and the trick is to make it so that eventually you get good enough at figuring out what tasks students can do to actually make your work easier, or at the very least, figure out which students' projects/activities add value to your work and to their education. Again, it's not an easy thing to pull off, but it can be very rewarding.

 

[Slippers]

Pro:
-A Pharmacy student/intern can help you with counseling and immunizations and such (techs can't), as well as those late refill calls
- You get teaching experience
-The school will probably compensate you in some way (although not sure if it goes directly to the preceptor or to the company)

Cons:
-You have to fill out their oh so tedious evaluations
- You have to give them things to do and answer their questions which will take up time

 

[ChalupaBatman86]

It's one more person for secret Santa, eff that.


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[lord999]

On one hand, you were trained by someone else, so you do owe that sort of time to train others. As well, you'd be surprised at how much you learn from your own students.

On the other hand, you volunteered to be a student, and in the same vein, you ought to volunteer to be a preceptor, not coerced into it. I can completely understand that teaching is not for everyone, even though the oath (small O to me as it's not legally binding and it wasn't the one I took) exists.

However, you aren't the PIC, and the PIC has the authority to order staff to do matters within their reasonable professional ambit, which precepting is certainly one of them. You don't like it, you either have to become a PIC and not volunteer as a preceptor (but your oversight pharmacist could still order you legally to do so and be in the right), you move to a staff position in a place that does not take students, or you open your own pharmacy. And yes, you can be held accountable in the negative sense for refusing a valid order to precept. Not sure if I know if anyone has been Board disciplined for the matter, but it certainly is a reprimand offense even in civil service which is rather surprising.

I do separate my academic hat from my work one, so I can understand both positions. I really do not want to precept students or even have residents in my work one (the work is too sensitive in the public trust sense for that), but in the right environment, I enjoy teaching. I completely understand if the environment is unsuitable for education, however, there are limits to what is tolerable for a professional objection to the matter.

I also object to using the interns as zero-cost labor. I hated it as an intern myself, a pharmacy should have no staffing need for an intern (and that limit is legally binding in many states and the reports are considered when a chain goes cheap and attempts to replace tech help with interns to an unreasonable extent), and the point of the intern being there is to learn by doing or by observation. That's a big difference than just being used as a supertech even if the interns do the tasks.

 

[BenJammin]

If you don't want to be a preceptor then you can always try to get yourself blacklisted from schools like some of my terrible coworkers. Give students busy work, Cs on evaluations, rarely talk to them, etc.

 

[owlegrad]

'Pharmacists oath' lol

How many people here actually took an oath?

I have never heard of being forced to precept but I also don't know why you would need to be forced. Interns are great. They can council patients, take doctor calls, and a lot of other stuff. You get exposed to new ideas (although sometimes they are dumb/wrong). The pros well out way the cons.

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[lord999]

'Pharmacists oath' lol

How many people here actually took an oath?

I have never heard of being forced to precept but I also don't know why you would need to be forced. Interns are great. They can council patients, take doctor calls, and a lot of other stuff. You get exposed to new ideas (although sometimes they are dumb/wrong). The pros well out way the cons.

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Playing Devil's Advocate:
Normally, yes, and then you get the basketcase where you have to go through the insane paperwork process to deal with. And there's some schools that some people disagree with the training philosophy, and it's not just incompetence. Putting it out there that I don't like to take UCSF and UMN's interns because of professional arrogance and untrainability.

I had an intern that became a genuine stalker (with me having to figure out how to write a restraining order in the federal district) of one of my colleagues, and that particular experience soured my colleague on taking any students whatsoever. Of course, that intern got a pharmacist license, but I had that intern blocked from applying from any federal job for obvious reasons.

 

[owlegrad]

Playing Devil's Advocate:
Normally, yes, and then you get the basketcase where you have to go through the insane paperwork process to deal with. And there's some schools that some people disagree with the training philosophy, and it's not just incompetence. Putting it out there that I don't like to take UCSF and UMN's interns because of professional arrogance and untrainability.

I had an intern that became a genuine stalker (with me having to figure out how to write a restraining order in the federal district) of one of my colleagues, and that particular experience soured my colleague on taking any students whatsoever. Of course, that intern got a pharmacist license, but I had that intern blocked from applying from any federal job for obvious reasons.

Yeah I mean I can see how some people and places aren't cut out to precept. It's an odd thing IMO to force someone to do. I can't imagine it will be a good experience for either party.

I never had a stalker thank goodness but I have had some duds. Thankfully the good has far outweighed the bad so far.

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[beautifulrobot]

'Pharmacists oath' lol

How many people here actually took an oath?

 

[beautifulrobot]

On a more serious note, oath or not, it is ethical to precept future pharmacists if you have the capacity to do so.

 

[6GodPharm]

I do it but make sure you're compensated during your reviews. I'm not training these kids for free. To do it right takes time and you have to be thorough. I mention this to my sup during reviews.

 

[Corpseman]

On a more serious note, oath or not, it is ethical to precept future pharmacists if you have the capacity to do so.

At the same time remember that you are also training the next line of people willing to take your job in a heartbeat.

 

[Sparda29]

I always thought of it as having your own padawan learner/sith apprentice. Teach them but feel free to use them to bring coffee, lunch to you (give them money to get it).

 

[297point1]

'Pharmacists oath' lol

How many people here actually took an oath?

Not me. But I went to school before the era of White Coat Ceremonies, separate hooding ceremonies, the free copies of the Oath distributed by APhA/AACP at graduation, and a lot of the extra pomp and circumstance. Everyone (hmmm...hedging my bets) no, ALMOST everyone who graduated post 2003 probably read the oath aloud at some point during their graduation/hooding/school is ending exercises.

 

[Gombrich12]

On a more serious note, oath or not, it is ethical to precept future pharmacists if you have the capacity to do so.

I'm not so sure that's true if it turns out we're training them for jobs that don't exist. If the pessimistic predictions about the job market come true then the ethical action would be one which doesn't perpetuate a system that encourages young adults to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of their lives.

 

[lord999]

Not me. But I went to school before the era of White Coat Ceremonies, separate hooding ceremonies, the free copies of the Oath distributed by APhA/AACP at graduation, and a lot of the extra pomp and circumstance. Everyone (hmmm...hedging my bets) no, ALMOST everyone who graduated post 2003 probably read the oath aloud at some point during their graduation/hooding/school is ending exercises.

Not me (2004 class). We as a class knew what we were going into the profession for, and it was to ca$h in. By and large, I'm extremely proud of my classmates for doing just that without the drama of the classes just graduating now. Then again, much of my class were LDS with the 5.5 children average where they had to succeed for their sake. Most of us were also techs before the certification standard, so we knew what it was like to work like dogs (if you think coverage now is bad, think of the pre-IC days where you had the ordering system and no automation). If I were just precepting, I'd want in on what the school pays because I had to pay in myself.

Is it just me though or is it nostalgic that $41/hour retail pay was considered fantastic at the time of graduation when a good tech could make $18?

 

[beautifulrobot]

I'm not so sure that's true if it turns out we're training them for jobs that don't exist. If the pessimistic predictions about the job market come true then the ethical action would be one which doesn't perpetuate a system that encourages young adults to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of their lives.

Precepting pharmacy students and recruiting people into the profession are two separate things. I would discourage almost anyone from applying to pharmacy school or pursuing pharmacy as a career these days, but if someone already made the commitment to become a pharmacist, I still think it is ethical to precept them. I suppose you could make the argument that if all currently active pharmacists decided to stop precepting students as a protest of sorts, that could upend a system that encourages young adults to waste their time and money to some extent. That is an interesting argument. Although I would imagine pharmacy schools and pharmacy corporations would figure out a way around such a preceptor strike (provide additional financial incentives for precepting, change laws related to intern hour requirements, etc.).

More broadly, I believe it is ethical to teach and mentor those who come after me. Even if what I teach them is how to salvage their pharmacy education to pursue other goals, or whatever, the point is to share privileged knowledge and experience in order to uplift others and increase their ability to succeed, just as others have done for me. In fact, I would argue that precepting students gives me more power to subvert the system, depending on what I teach and to what extent I am able to influence my students.

 

[beautifulrobot]

At the same time remember that you are also training the next line of people willing to take your job in a heartbeat.

Yes and no - it depends, in part, on the kind of job you have. I currently work in a fairly niche job, and my years of experience ahead of my students provides me with certain job security. That could always change, but a lot of things could happen that I can't control or predict. What I do know is that my successes in my career are, in a significant way, because others have precepted and mentored me. I also know that if I want to continue to be successful, both personally and professionally, I should avoid seeing people as obstacles or threats, but rather as, simply (or not so simply), people.

 

[Amicable Angora]

If you don't want to be a preceptor then you can always try to get yourself blacklisted from schools like some of my terrible coworkers. Give students busy work, Cs on evaluations, rarely talk to them, etc.

Don't even ....

 

[ChalupaBatman86]

'Pharmacists oath' lol

How many people here actually took an oath?


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We took it, but it was called the "Hustlers Prayer" at my school:

While we out here, say the Hustlers Prayer
If the game shakes me or breaks me
I hope it makes me a better man, take a better stand
Put money in my mom's hand
Get my daughter this college grant
So she don't need no man
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it
And live the phrase "Sky's the limit"


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[gwarm01]

If you don't want to be a preceptor then you can always try to get yourself blacklisted from schools like some of my terrible coworkers. Give students busy work, Cs on evaluations, rarely talk to them, etc.

This reminds me of the preceptor that kept saying I was doing a great job, then at my mid-point evaluation gave me a bunch of 1/5 and 2/5 scores. Described me as unprofessional and had a list of duties I was not performing. This was literally the first time I heard any criticism from her, then the rest of the month I did my best to fulfill her demands and eventually was passed with whatever the minimally acceptable score was. Man, I will never forget that month. 9 of 10 preceptors evaluated me with top marks and said I was professional, had a great attitude, was a team player etc. and this one woman just rails me. To this day I can't imagine what I must have said or done to her.

Anyway, yeah, don't be that person.