what are the (unspoken) requirements for medical school?

[rodain]

To my understanding, to make for strong application you need:
1). gpa> 3.5
2). mcat > 30
3). clinical experience of > 50 hrs
4). volunteer work
5). research experience
6). shadowing

I am a Cornell graduate (2014) planning to apply for the 2016 cycle next year, with a GPA ~3.6 and a MCAT score of 38. I have had about a year of undergraduate research (no publications, just pretty basic lab work), four years of volunteering at a local nursing home, a couple of shadowing experiences but very little clinical experience.
I realize that so far overall my application is pretty weak, especially in terms of research and clinical experience.
I plan on building up on my clinical experience by next May, but am concerned that there are other more serious failings in my application.
What can I do to strengthen my application by the next application cycle, and am I neglecting to do anything in particular?
Thanks in advance. I would sincerely appreciate any advice.

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[Omppu27]

You should aim for more than 50 hours of pt. contact experience. I would find a volunteering position at a hospital or free clinic (preferably the free clinic in my opinion) and start volunteering ASAP. Schools will want to see that you've had a volunteer position for a prolonged period of time.

 

[Keladry]

You're fine. I had much less research and comparable (possibly less) clinical experience. If you really want, you can do more of either/both, but it's really fine.

The only thing I'd add to your list is 7) something that you enjoy doing that's unrelated to medicine. Do you have any other hobbies/ECs that you can put on AMCAS? Lots of interviewers like asking about them/talking with you/seeing that you're an interesting person outside of medicine. You don't need to be a world-famous athlete, but maybe you like running and are training for a marathon. I included an entry about creative pursuits (I sew, bake, make jewelry, etc.) and somewhat surprisingly, it came up in most interviews (several interviewers asked if I had considered surgery, since I like working with my hands). Just little stuff like that.

Again, you're fine. It's all good.

 

[Keladry]

You should aim for more than 50 hours of pt. contact experience. I would find a volunteering position at a hospital or free clinic (preferably the free clinic in my opinion) and start volunteering ASAP. Schools will want to see that you've had a volunteer position for a prolonged period of time.

Four years of volunteering at a nursing home just about covers it, I think. That's definitely a prolonged period of time for volunteering, and clinical volunteering at that.

 

[freemontie]

That 38 MCAT + decent GPA alone will get you into several schools if you apply broadly. That score is 98.5-99.1 percentile. Adcoms drool over that.

 

[Catalystik]

four years of volunteering at a local nursing home

What was your role in the nursing home experience?

 

[Omppu27]

Four years of volunteering at a nursing home just about covers it, I think. That's definitely a prolonged period of time for volunteering, and clinical volunteering at that.

Whether or not nursing home volunteering is considered clinical experience has been debated on this site many, many times. Would you say people in nursing homes are residents or patients?

OP, i would not bank on your nursing home experience to suffice for clinical experience.

 

[nOchemallday]

To my understanding, to make for strong application you need:
1). gpa> 3.5
2). mcat > 30
3). clinical experience of > 50 hrs
4). volunteer work
5). research experience
6). shadowing

I am a Cornell graduate (2014) planning to apply for the 2016 cycle next year, with a GPA ~3.6 and a MCAT score of 38. I have had about a year of undergraduate research (no publications, just pretty basic lab work), four years of volunteering at a local nursing home, a couple of shadowing experiences but very little clinical experience.
I realize that so far overall my application is pretty weak, especially in terms of research and clinical experience.
I plan on building up on my clinical experience by next May, but am concerned that there are other more serious failings in my application.
What can I do to strengthen my application by the next application cycle, and am I neglecting to do anything in particular?
Thanks in advance. I would sincerely appreciate any advice.

You've pretty much hit them all. I'd reorganize your list in terms of importance:

1. MCAT
2. GPA
3. Shadowing
4. Clinical Exposure
5. Volunteering = Research

The only thing I'd add, as others have, is that when possible you want your extracurriculars to be longitudinal experiences. I've heard ~1-1.5years+ of clinical exposure equivalent to 100+ hours is a good starting reference. Also at least 40 hours of shadowing across various specialties should fulfill that unspoken requirement.

Certain schools will stress volunteering more than research and other schools (typically more elite institutions) will prefer research to volunteering. However it's best to have both if you can. Based on the fact that you're non-trad it would likely be far more difficult to get research experience at this point on your app. Though you said you have some from undergrad which is a plus, but may be seen as dated - some schools are only acutely interested in the past 6 years of your extracurricular involvement - others *cough* Dartmouth *cough* love non-trads and want the whole story. Most of this nitty gritty will just come down to picking schools based on your application/applicant profile, but if you meet the "unspoken" requirements you have a good shot at getting in somewhere.

 

[rodain]

To answer the general inquiries on my nursing home experience, it was playing music for the residents with a group of other students.
Some of the the residents were patients, but given the nature of my service, what I did there really wouldn't count as clinical experience. (You're right, Omppu27 & Catalystik)
I am definitely planning on getting some in hospital clinical experience, and I already have spent a couple of weeks volunteering in an emergency room.

 

[rodain]

You're fine. I had much less research and comparable (possibly less) clinical experience. If you really want, you can do more of either/both, but it's really fine.

The only thing I'd add to your list is 7) something that you enjoy doing that's unrelated to medicine. Do you have any other hobbies/ECs that you can put on AMCAS? Lots of interviewers like asking about them/talking with you/seeing that you're an interesting person outside of medicine. You don't need to be a world-famous athlete, but maybe you like running and are training for a marathon. I included an entry about creative pursuits (I sew, bake, make jewelry, etc.) and somewhat surprisingly, it came up in most interviews (several interviewers asked if I had considered surgery, since I like working with my hands). Just little stuff like that.

Again, you're fine. It's all good.

Can I mention my terrible figure skating skills on my application? I've been at it for several years and really it is one of my main passions
but my prowess thus far seems much too meager and fully undeserving of an entry

 

[Catalystik]

Hobbies don't require crazy skill levels, just that you enjoy them during leisure times.

 

[rodain]

You've pretty much hit them all. I'd reorganize your list in terms of importance:

1. MCAT
2. GPA
3. Shadowing
4. Clinical Exposure
5. Volunteering = Research

The only thing I'd add, as others have, is that when possible you want your extracurriculars to be longitudinal experiences. I've heard ~1-1.5years+ of clinical exposure equivalent to 100+ hours is a good starting reference. Also at least 40 hours of shadowing across various specialties should fulfill that unspoken requirement.

Certain schools will stress volunteering more than research and other schools (typically more elite institutions) will prefer research to volunteering. However it's best to have both if you can. Based on the fact that you're non-trad it would likely be far more difficult to get research experience at this point on your app. Though you said you have some from undergrad which is a plus, but may be seen as dated - some schools are only acutely interested in the past 6 years of your extracurricular involvement - others *cough* Dartmouth *cough* love non-trads and want the whole story. Most of this nitty gritty will just come down to picking schools based on your application/applicant profile, but if you meet the "unspoken" requirements you have a good shot at getting in somewhere.

Does the shadowing need to be longitudinal experiences as well? I have shadowed a few but they were very short term (few days at most). For some reason it was very difficult for me to procure any
shadowing experience (any advice?), much less an extended one.

I am currently abroad right now, and given my current circumstances, will most likely not be able to return to the US until January. My plan is to just volunteer where I am located
currently until then, and fulfill my clinical experiences from January- May. Would that appear to be too last minute and too short term to make for a really meaningful clinical experience?
Should I just get back to the states ASAP and begin volunteering/ shadowing/ clinical experience?

Do non- trads stand at a disadvantage if they come w/o fascinating life experiences to tell? Most likely, all I'll be doing is doing just what I mentioned above, and I can't imagine
how that would ever make for a good interview story. I guess I'll have to go ahead and cross Dartmouth from the list...

Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions. I really appreciate the advice.

 

[NP545]

You've pretty much hit them all. I'd reorganize your list in terms of importance:

1. MCAT
2. GPA
3. Shadowing
4. Clinical Exposure
5. Volunteering = Research

The only thing I'd add, as others have, is that when possible you want your extracurriculars to be longitudinal experiences. I've heard ~1-1.5years+ of clinical exposure equivalent to 100+ hours is a good starting reference. Also at least 40 hours of shadowing across various specialties should fulfill that unspoken requirement.

Certain schools will stress volunteering more than research and other schools (typically more elite institutions) will prefer research to volunteering. However it's best to have both if you can. Based on the fact that you're non-trad it would likely be far more difficult to get research experience at this point on your app. Though you said you have some from undergrad which is a plus, but may be seen as dated - some schools are only acutely interested in the past 6 years of your extracurricular involvement - others *cough* Dartmouth *cough* love non-trads and want the whole story. Most of this nitty gritty will
just come down to picking schools based on your application/applicant profile, but if you meet the "unspoken" requirements you have a good shot at getting in somewhere.

Ehhh.. I'm not so sure I would prioritize shadowing over clinical exposure/patient contact

 

[Heplayer92]

Does the shadowing need to be longitudinal experiences as well? I have shadowed a few but they were very short term (few days at most). For some reason it was very difficult for me to procure any
shadowing experience (any advice?), much less an extended one.

I am currently abroad right now, and given my current circumstances, will most likely not be able to return to the US until January. My plan is to just volunteer where I am located
currently until then, and fulfill my clinical experiences from January- May. Would that appear to be too last minute and too short term to make for a really meaningful clinical experience?
Should I just get back to the states ASAP and begin volunteering/ shadowing/ clinical experience?

Do non- trads stand at a disadvantage if they come w/o fascinating life experiences to tell? Most likely, all I'll be doing is doing just what I mentioned above, and I can't imagine
how that would ever make for a good interview story. I guess I'll have to go ahead and cross Dartmouth from the list...

Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions. I really appreciate the advice.

From my understanding, shadowing is just so you know what you're getting into. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there really isn't a "magical number" for shadowing hours. I've seen people with 20 hours, and others with 200 hours. I think the point is that you have exposure from the physician's perspective, and if asked about it, would be open to elaborate upon it.

For clinical volunteering, definitely do what you can do. Volunteer a little there, and some more when you're back in the States. The most important thing isn't the number of hours, but how you talk about your experiences. Note the meaningful interactions will occur, and how they perhaps have helped you grow as a person and aspiring physician.

Also, I'm not sure if you count as a "non-trad". You essentially are just taking a gap year. More people do that now than not actually.

Anyways, your numbers alone are sure to grant you many interviews. But do write a strong personal statement, apply early as you can, and work hard on your secondaries. If all works out, you'll be sitting on multiple interview invites this time next year. Best of luck =D

 

[Goro]

Believe me, people with those numbers who don't have patient contact experience get rejected.

That 38 MCAT + decent GPA alone will get you into several schools if you apply broadly. That score is 98.5-99.1 percentile. Adcoms drool over that.

 

[NMSleepingBeauty]

Nontrad here applying this cycle. I have minimal hours of shadowing and volunteering at a hospital, which hasn't been an issue so far (attended 2 interviews so far). I think you just need to find one volunteering experience you really enjoy and stick with. I currently volunteer with immigrant children that have crossed into the US (over 50 hrs so far), which I have been asked about.

Also, I think your fascinating experience can be your experience abroad.

 

[nOchemallday]

Does the shadowing need to be longitudinal experiences as well? I have shadowed a few but they were very short term (few days at most). For some reason it was very difficult for me to procure any
shadowing experience (any advice?), much less an extended one.

I am currently abroad right now, and given my current circumstances, will most likely not be able to return to the US until January. My plan is to just volunteer where I am located
currently until then, and fulfill my clinical experiences from January- May. Would that appear to be too last minute and too short term to make for a really meaningful clinical experience?
Should I just get back to the states ASAP and begin volunteering/ shadowing/ clinical experience?

Do non- trads stand at a disadvantage if they come w/o fascinating life experiences to tell? Most likely, all I'll be doing is doing just what I mentioned above, and I can't imagine
how that would ever make for a good interview story. I guess I'll have to go ahead and cross Dartmouth from the list...

Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions. I really appreciate the advice.

For shadowing, "longitudinal" doesn't necessarily mean with 1 physician over time, but rather a different experience over the course of a few months. For shadowing this isn't anywhere near as relevant as it is for clinical exposure. However, it can be helpful to ask at each shadow how you think X has changed in medicine over the past Y years, and where do you think it's heading over the next Z years. I'm not a great source for how to obtain shadowing experience as I've had difficulty finding some myself.

As for clinical experience in a quick time frame: you have a legitimate excuse as to why you weren't getting that experience over a longer time frame. This is usually advice for people who have done zero volunteering through all of college and only start checking their boxes starting just before their application cycle. Just do the best you can. And as someone above posted. Your experiences matter way more than the # of hours.

As long as you've been active after school you won't be at a disadvantage. If you're still finding time to volunteer/whatever on top of a full time job, that's perfectly fine. You don't need to cure cancer or be the first person on Mars. Just make sure that you have verifiable activities that can back up your pursuit of a career in medicine.

Hope this helps. As a disclaimer: I'm applying this cycle, so I have no formal credibility, just what I've learned by word-of-mouth and SDN.

 

[nOchemallday]

Ehhh.. I'm not so sure I would prioritize shadowing over clinical exposure/patient contact

Perhaps they may be considered equally important.

This informational video from The Ohio State University College of Medicine shows some data from a survey of their admissions committee.

Of particular note are these 2 questions:

Describe your feelings about an applicant who completely lacks MD shadowing experience? Respondents - 16% "Red Flag - 76% May be Overcome by other experiences - 6% Not important

How much shadowing is "enough" to gain insight into an MD's lifestyle? Respondents - 16% 16hrs - 42% 40hrs - 32% 80hrs - 6% More than 80hrs.

They also give this statistic, though do not differentiate between clinical and non-clinical volunteering:
Which of the following is a "deal breaker" that should keep the candidate from being admitted? Assume competitive MCAT/GPA. Respondents - 3% Lack of Research - 58% Lack of volunteer or community service - 17 Lack of Leadership - 3% None of these, if MCAT/GPA strong.

Based, qualitatively, on the fact that they do not specifically mention clinical exposure/clinical volunteering yet do specifically give data on shadowing, one can infer that clinical exposure is not as important as shadowing. Frankly they are both important and necessary to build a strong application, but I suppose one would be worse off if they completely lacked clinical exposure than if they completely lacked shadowing.

Take even this survey with a grain of salt as consulting the MSAR reveals that the percentage of accepted applicants with relevant medical, volunteer, and/or research experience breaks down as follows for OSUCOM:
78% Community service, non-clinical
88% Community service, clinical
91% Research

I'm also concerned with why the percentages don't add up to 100% for 2 of the 3 questions I've cited from their survey.

EDIT: Editted to reflect that MSAR data is pertinent to OSUCOM only.

 

[deeproots]

You're fine. I had much less research and comparable (possibly less) clinical experience. If you really want, you can do more of either/both, but it's really fine.

The only thing I'd add to your list is 7) something that you enjoy doing that's unrelated to medicine. Do you have any other hobbies/ECs that you can put on AMCAS? Lots of interviewers like asking about them/talking with you/seeing that you're an interesting person outside of medicine. You don't need to be a world-famous athlete, but maybe you like running and are training for a marathon. I included an entry about creative pursuits (I sew, bake, make jewelry, etc.) and somewhat surprisingly, it came up in most interviews (several interviewers asked if I had considered surgery, since I like working with my hands). Just little stuff like that.

Again, you're fine. It's all good.

I find this interesting, as I've had a similar experience. Most interviewers have asked me about the non-academic but unique parts of my application (e.g., the fact that I'm a military spouse, challenges during childhood, moving to Texas after living in the East Coast for 22 years, etc.). Not one interviewer has asked about my volunteer/EC experiences (which were very meaningful) and only 2 or 3 have asked about my broad research experience. I guess it makes sense, but I found it intriguing.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Believe me, people with those numbers who don't have patient contact experience get rejected.

Saw it happen to a friend.

Rejected across the board with similar stats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

7) leadership

 

[jonioesque]

I am definitely planning on getting some in hospital clinical experience, and I already have spent a couple of weeks volunteering in an emergency room

 

[Law2Doc]

Believe me, people with those numbers who don't have patient contact experience get rejected.

Agreed. OP, you really need some shadowing or hospital volunteering or employment where you see the doctor patient interactions first hand. Nursing home volunteering is nice and may make you look like a decent human being, but it does nothing to suggest you know what you are getting yourself into in the medical field. And since medical school seats are a precious and well guarded commodity, they only like to offer them to people who can show they really have an idea of what the job entails. This is less about jumping through hoops of X number of hours and more about doing your due diligence, looking before you leap.

In fact, premeds often miss the ball when they take a "check the box" formulaic approach to getting into med school. Minimum hours and Lizzy scores are meant to give you a benchmark/frame of reference, not to be the formula you follow. There will be many many people who get into great med schools, simply because they have accomplished some really amazing things and have interests they are passionate about. They may have a 3.0/30 and still be the much better applicant than the guy with 3.5/35 who merely followed the "recipe" of what the bare minimums are in terms of volunteer hours, etc, to get into med school. Med schools really don't want cookie cutter applicants who put up scores and number of hours. They want dynamic interesting individuals. The competitive athlete or the guy on the reality TV show or the former navy seal or the guy who spent two years in the peace corps, or even the former lawyer, is going to take your spot if all you have to show is a nice MCAT score, GPA and the minimum number of clinical and volunteering hours. So they want interesting, dynmic inividuals with the "wow" factor, not the guy who did the minimum. These clinical hours are really for you, not for them. It's really your due diligence, they just want to be sure you actually did due diligence. There aren't enough people with the wow factor to fill every school, so these people with the minimums still get in and these "requirements" get spread around on SDN, but the truth if the matter us that no med school is counting up numbers of hours of clinical experience -- they are looking for the applicant who floors them and they don't need to parse out minimum requirements like this. If you are focused on whether you need 40 hours or 60, you already missed the point.

 

[Goro]

To follow up on my learned colleague's comments, it's the numbers that get you to the door, but ECs get you through the door.

Agreed. OP, you really need some shadowing or hospital volunteering or employment where you see the doctor patient interactions first hand. Nursing home volunteering is nice and may make you look like a decent human being, but it does nothing to suggest you know what you are getting yourself into in the medical field. And since medical school seats are a precious and well guarded commodity, they only like to offer them to people who can show they really have an idea of what the job entails. This is less about jumping through hoops of X number of hours and more about doing your due diligence, looking before you leap.

In fact, premeds often miss the ball when they take a "check the box" formulaic approach to getting into med school. Minimum hours and Lizzy scores are meant to give you a benchmark/frame of reference, not to be the formula you follow. There will be many many people who get into great med schools, simply because they have accomplished some really amazing things and have interests they are passionate about. They may have a 3.0/30 and still be the much better applicant than the guy with 3.5/35 who merely followed the "recipe" of what the bare minimums are in terms of volunteer hours, etc, to get into med school. Med schools really don't want cookie cutter applicants who put up scores and number of hours. They want dynamic interesting individuals. The competitive athlete or the guy on the reality TV show or the former navy seal or the guy who spent two years in the peace corps, or even the former lawyer, is going to take your spot if all you have to show is a nice MCAT score, GPA and the minimum number of clinical and volunteering hours. So they want interesting, dynmic inividuals with the "wow" factor, not the guy who did the minimum. These clinical hours are really for you, not for them. It's really your due diligence, they just want to be sure you actually did due diligence. There aren't enough people with the wow factor to fill every school, so these people with the minimums still get in and these "requirements" get spread around on SDN, but the truth if the matter us that no med school is counting up numbers of hours of clinical experience -- they are looking for the applicant who floors them and they don't need to parse out minimum requirements like this. If you are focused on whether you need 40 hours or 60, you already missed the point.

 

[boltedbicorne]

Being a gunner and when asked you gotta claim you're only interested in competing with yourself.